Minute 88: “So right then, you’d know it was me.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00Welcome to the Matrix Minute, where we got you for one minute. I'm film. But in reality, it's been like 30 minutes plus. Not for one minute. It is one minute, boy. Anyway, I'm Jake. I'm Tim. A long time ago, we did trivia. We don't do that anymore. We changed men. I'm Seamus. That's right. Welcome. How did you get Macho Man Randy Savage here? Oh, yeah. Beyond the Grave. Slim Jim. Okay, no, I'm done. I'm done. Bone saw is ready. Yeah.

0:41Not a cage match. Unfortunately, we don't have any connections with the Matrix, so this isn't clever whatsoever. I was thinking about the connections. I was just thinking of zero connections. Don't you guys know he was cast as Morpheus first? Yeah. I was quoting Spider-Man there. Can you believe Spider-Man came out three years after the Matrix? I can. It's unreal. I'm a Spider-Man fan. That seems like two different eras to me. I don't know. I went from 11 to 14. A lot of shit goes down in that time, you know? Yeah, man. For me, it was a similar era. Where do you guys get these guys? Every goddamn guest is a fan of those Spider-Man movies. They're universally claimed except for you.

1:25Yeah, man. Well, I mean, the good ones, half of them are good. The other half are terrible. Spider-Man 1 and 2. Yeah. That's it. And then skip straight to Homecoming. Homecoming's good? Homecoming's good. Yeah, Homecoming's good. It's not for me. It's for 12-year-olds. I had to accept a mold when I saw it. I was like, oh shit. Yep. This isn't for me. I'm not the Spider-Man age anymore. And so much has changed since then. I like the old 70s animated Spider-Man. He just jumps around on buildings and takes pictures. Sounds good. Sure. You don't bother drawing the whole thing? Nope. Just, I love it when he talks with his mouth. It's just like a little loop animation of his mouth. I'm eating your donuts. Yeah, we used to watch some of those 70s Spider-Men.

2:05It's amazing. I love those. You mean the 60s cartoon? Sorry, 60s. Was it 60s? I guess. I don't know. And when you actually watch the episodes, they're so slow. Yeah. Nothing happens. Absolutely nothing happens. Yeah. But something does happen in this minute. Oh yeah, we're right. Right, yeah. Well, we're back. Tank is dead. Or seemingly so. Dozer is definitely dead. And Cypher is still going on monologuing. Monologuing. Shall we get into it? Before we do, can I please say something really quick? Absolutely. Anything. Watch Morpheus' eyes when he says, we would have told you to shove that red pill right up your ass. Just watch his eyes when he says that line.

2:47Okay. Especially on the words red pill. We'll do it. That's all I'll say. We'll watch him. Cool. We'll do it. Alright. I wish I could walk in just when it happens, so right then, you'll know it was me. Cypher tells Morpheus' comatose body with a grin. Cypher continues to talk to Trinity over the phone, and they argue about the Matrix not being real. Also, that all Cypher does is what Morpheus tells him to do. But in any case, Cypher just pulls the plug in the real world, and there Trinity has to watch Apok die. He pulls. What? It's a cliffhanger. What happens? That's insane. I remember the first time I saw that, they drew emphasis on Apok out of my head. I was, the 11-year-old me was like, who the fuck is he?

3:30Wow, talk about an intention span. You're like, I thought Tupac was in this. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, where's Tupac? At the beginning of this minute, we have the smile of Judas right there. That's true. He wishes he was there. He not only, you know, just wants to, you know, give them Morpheus, he wants to be there in the room, and then smile like that and go, it was me. What do you think, what would be Morpheus' reaction when he sees Judas Cypher? Oh, yeah. What would be his reaction? Um, you know the bit when he breaks open the handcuffs? Something like that. Something really like, I don't know, because I think it's funny how he never, ever, ever

4:14in any of the movies talks about Cypher after he's dead. I know. But there must be a disappointment in Cypher and himself, like an actual rage. You know what I mean? They do. He knows he's troubled, but he doesn't really want to deal with it. Yeah. Or, for instance, what he could do is he could break character and go like, I've always hated you. Yeah. It ends up there. Maybe the Oracle told him, you know, the other bold one will betray you. Part of his prophecy. But he's... At midnight. He's a man of faith, so I guess he kept giving him the benefit of the doubt, and he suffered for it. Yeah, I will agree with you there, because I believe Morpheus is trying to do good and is a good man.

4:54Yeah, so I think he failed Cypher. I honestly think he... I know he's a maniac, and we got into that last time, but I think he feels he failed Cypher. Honestly, I think he would be disappointed. Yeah, I agree with that. Well, then he should have spent some more time with Cypher and not just dedicate all his energy to Neo. That's true, too. But he's also right to be disappointed in himself. Yeah, yeah. I feel like if you haven't listened to another minute before that, when they're... Before they go into the doors of the Oracle in the 1998 draft, I think it was, they cut this whole scene out where Neo actually confronts Morpheus before he opens the door to the Oracle about the other five people that Morpheus accidentally killed because he thought they were the one,

5:37and Morpheus actually tries to be very heartfelt with him in saying that, yeah, that was wrong, I was wrong. All right. And so I would say the same thing would happen here because I feel like the Matrix is not just the story of Neo, it's also the story of Morpheus making mistakes. I don't know, I'm just going with this. I love, it's interesting, all the stuff that gets taken out of the previous draft is all the stuff that needs to go because that's such like screenwriting 101, which is like, we have high stakes. Next scene, we get rid of those high stakes. No, you can't like, you have to keep that, that's such a wonderful tension that he's told that and he just has to sit with it and it doesn't come up until that great scene when they almost pull, I'm getting ahead of the minutes here, but when they almost pull Morpheus'

6:20plug, that's a great scene. That said, I don't know why Tank stopped. I don't know how he heard Keanu Reeves whisper, stop. Like, you know, you think he would have shouted at him. That's a quiet room. Yeah. But I was going to say earlier, what I love as well is getting into the whole like psyche of Cypher and all that. Like, I love that they still let you hate him. Like, you know what I mean? You can sympathize with him, but he's still wrong because you could have written this where he's like, I'm sorry, look, this is what I have to do for myself. And look, I can make a deal. You can come with me, Trinity. But instead, no, you just make it easy to watch. You make it simpler with all the right details. And he revels in it.

7:00And he's just like, he's like, no, this isn't even enough. I want more. I want to see this guy suffer. So that graduates him into just a bad person, which is great. And any part of a solution, he kills his friends. Yeah. Yeah. I think that adds the cherry on top. It's like, he could have like figured something out, get him stuck in a matrix or something like that, but he just straight up. Or like, you know, like imagine a scene where he's being, I mean, my theory is this was never going to happen, but imagine a theory, like a scene where he's being taken to be plugged back in and then they destroy the ship with everyone on it. He just looks away. That's, it's horrible still, but that's like more sympathetic, but no, he actually does it with his hands and he enjoys it. So that means, okay, he's a bad guy.

7:41You don't have to worry about him when he's gone. Like, so I like that when they make it easy for you to make, you make it easy to hate someone. I think that's a great point. That's true. Yeah. It's just good storytelling. Passion of the Cypher. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, he's not very, he's not a very conflicted character. No, he's like, no. He's very sure of himself and he's made up his mind. He's the anti-Morpheus. Oh. He's bald. He's, he's, he's white. Wow. He's not. He has facial hair. He's not short, but he's not tall either. That is true. Not a complete opposite. Right. Yeah. His glasses have, you know, ear things. They're not just suspended in the middle of his nose.

8:23So that is the opposite of Morpheus. I think he'd like, Cypher, like was thinking about this for a long time. Yeah. I think the fact that Neo's there is just an accident, you know. Oh yeah. Yeah. For a while. I don't think Cypher puts this into account and all that. I think this is like, this has been like the fifth time we've been doing this or fourth, sixth time. And you know, this is just routine and Cypher's sick of it. Yeah. Do you know, do you know what, um, controversial phrasing, but this scene that we're in the middle of is Cypher's Columbine. What? Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, like, or like, it's, it's like a, you know, that horrible, like bully victim revenge. Like that. They may have ignored him, but he also, sorry, I decided to make things so serious.

9:04I, I, but, but, but does that make sense? Yeah. It makes sense. Because like, yeah. What we touched on earlier is that basically he set all this up. He was in a way in a privileged, privileged position with people who trusted him. And then he basically took advantage of that entire situation. Yeah. And on top of that, like I mentioned, is that he's forcing everyone to pay attention to him, which is like exactly what he's been missing this entire time when the ship is sort of like, he's, he wasn't buying into all this stuff in the, you know, since the beginning, I imagine, or later gradually he began to detach himself from these, you know, higher ideals that the crew of the Nebuchadnezzar was striving for and like they're going after. And no one was on the same page as him, at least when it comes to, you know, his ultimate

9:48conclusion, which is him rejecting, you know, the real world. Yeah. That for him is not enough. He, he, he would rather, um, you know, I guess like in my view, it's a very hedonistic kind of approach that he takes in the end is just like the important part of just my personal pleasure and my personal happiness. And I'll sacrifice everything if I have to do that. Yeah. And it's the whole, it's interesting. Again, this is what drove me to do that video is that it's like he, you know what I mean? He's a misfit and that's not his fault. And it felt like he was on the outside. That said, he has too much of a chip on his shoulder about it. That's a very real thing. And I used perhaps too serious an example in comparison, but that's a real thing that happens. It's people who they obviously are suffering, but they also go too far with it.

10:32They also. Yeah. Like he didn't, he didn't take any, um, essentially steps to resolve this over time or talk about these things, which is a healthy approach. He basically just bottled it up and then just waited for so long to conduct his master plan. Yeah. And he, and we talked to this last, he clearly wrote that speech. Yep. He clearly wrote that. Or at least, you know, at least he's, uh, riffing his main points. So, so Cypher's sick of this. He wants to go out. So you guys are Morpheus now. And he comes and he says, you know what, Morpheus, I'm sick of this. I don't want to do this anymore. I mean, pre this. Yeah. Pre this. Like, let's, let's, let's avoid this situation. So you guys are Morpheus.

11:13What do you, what do you say to Cypher to me? Like, how would you solve this issue? Like, I'm out, I want out, I'm done. I don't, I don't want to do this. I don't want to deal with any of this. I don't want to go to Zion. Can you talk of like how Morpheus thinks or if we were Morpheus? Yeah. If you, if you were Morpheus, what would you guys do? I'd be like, Cypher, come here. Come here. Let me hug you. Come here, boy. And I'd say, uh, listen, buddy. Wow. This is, this is the cool pastor. Yeah. Cool pastor Morpheus. Turns around the chair, sits down. You know, no, actually I would just say, you know what? All right. Uh, just let, you know, hand in your notice. And, uh. But I don't want to go to Zion. Zion sucks. I want to go to Matrix. I want to eat steaks. I don't want to eat this goddamn goop every day.

11:54Cypher, Cypher, there's a therapist on Zion. Great guy. I know him. I know he just dances around you naked. He just puts water on you. Just dances. No, he's great. Feel this. Life is good. He was licensed. He was a licensed therapist from the Matrix. And now he's in Zion. I just want to go. I just want to go back. I just, I just want to. Ignorance. I don't want to deal with this. He'll talk you through it. It's neurological. They have, they have a. Shifting the blame. They have a shore leave program. They have a shore leave program in Zion. It's, you know what I mean? Where you have the fantasy programs. It's, you know, it's short term, but it's enough to get you through. Check that out. Exactly. Yeah. So there's just a matrix. Like another smaller matrix. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the hollow deck. Yeah. And it's, well, they just, well, they have like a, like, like a theme park.

12:34You know what I mean? It's, it's. Yeah. You can go see that. And, you know, maybe that can be first steps to, you know. Yeah. Seeing that, seeing that, the point of life is beyond these material possessions, but I'm not going to preach to you about this. You need to see it for yourself. And experience. Well, why don't you, you know, leave this material, your, your shaft, your little knife, whatever you always carry around you. What is that? Leave that possession around in your hat. Morpheus? Oh, the Morpheus knife. I'm just saying, if you don't know. What's the Morpheus knife? There's a shiv. He's got this little. He has a little shiv. He does. We noticed that he carries like trinkets and possessions. And, and, and they're inconsistent throughout like many different scenes. He just carries something and then that's gone. And then there's another thing that he keeps carrying. It's like his little outfits.

13:14Are they like the tomes in Inception? Is that what they're called? Oh, the totems. Yeah. Totems. Is he in Inception? Who knows? Oh no, please. The Matrix within a Matrix? You don't say. No, it's a Matrix within a. You don't say, sir. It's a Matrix within an Inception. Oh no. And Cypher is his subconscious, like fighting. Exactly. And so. That's the new Matrix movie that's coming out. Nice one, Seamus. Yeah. You found the plot. Yeah. Now I don't have to see it. Matrix versus, uh. Inception? I was thinking. Inception, yeah. You guys were, you guys were saying what, what you would say if Cypher came to you and his problems as Morpheus. No, I would say the exact same thing. Um, but I don't think that's what happened. I think Morpheus just like put his hand on his shoulder and said, don't worry, have faith.

13:59And walked away. And Cypher. And that's the problem. And Cypher was twice as pissed off. But that's the thing, because I think that Morpheus was, like you said, is just taking the approach of like, uh, he's doing a double down and just, you know, you got to have, you know, more belief in this cause. Yeah. Um, so, you know, that's not a, he didn't give him an option to say like, maybe this isn't correct. Like Morpheus, he can't understand people not, you know, doubting. He doesn't understand the concept, Morpheus. You know, he's so into this idea that he can't fathom like you being like. As the oracle says, he believes so blindly. That's, yeah. Yeah. And so that, that obviously is a flaw in his reasoning. Totally.

14:39Totally. Yeah. Um, so it kind of leaves Cypher in an awkward place. Uh, yeah. And then he, and then he's like, oh, by the way, there's a log for all the times you've been like jerking off inside the, there's, there's a reason the walls are white in there, you know, and it's you. Maybe that's why, oh man, maybe that's why he couldn't, uh, leave. That's totally, that's not even, that's not even like, that is actually a thing they talk about in the film. I love that, that they actually, they hint at it. Digital pimp hard at work. You know, it's, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a mouse. Yeah. To deny our own impulses. Like that's, it's a great movie. I mean, that's long established by minute, minute 88, but I still find myself going, oh man, the matrix. So fucking good. That's why, that's why I'm here.

15:19Yeah. I wanted to say, um, you know, thinking about it, Cypher would probably do well on a different crew. If you think about it, there's probably crews out there. There who are, like Commander Locke. No, he's not usually there. The, the, the, the grumpy guy. I can't remember. Yeah. Probably the grumpy guy. He'd probably fit in or something. Like the grumpy guy. Yeah. I mean, he'd do better. I don't think he'd like love it, but he would probably maybe not have gone to this point. Yeah. But yeah, he could like, maybe the other crew members would bitch with him. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He'd be more comfortable, you know, have a little crew around him. He would still hate it, you know, but maybe. Yeah. Survive. There's nothing. I wonder why he's not in Zion. I mean, I, I, I know it's not important. Don't worry about it. Do you want a good movie or not? Bush.

16:00That's it. I'm really thinking about what, where would he fit into Zion? Cause it's hard to know. There's no one else like him there. Yeah. Cause I think that ultimately Cypher, I don't think he has, you know, he, he doesn't, I don't think he likes sort of the idea of, you know, striving for something higher. I suppose he's just, you know, he'd rather have, he'd rather be satisfied in his own kind of world rather than, he's not a big concept kind of guy, I think. Yeah. And so that's why he really struggles to tough it out. He just wants to, he'd rather just be happy. Yeah. But I think he also, it's interesting that I, I don't think, um, you, I assume you guys

16:42have talked about how, whether or not the agents were actually going to give him what he wanted. Yeah. We, we touched on it and like my theory was that they probably wouldn't, but then Phil was like, yeah, they would. Okay. Why? What would it matter to them? I'm thinking they would because I feel like the machines want to be superior than humans and actually, you know, keep their deals pure and valid. Cause that's the whole point of the matrix, just to shut up the people, you know, just let's not deal with them. Let's put them in the matrix. You know what I mean? It's like a containment kind of thing. So why they're not trying to kill people, you know? I am murderers. I don't think they were going to, I think the idea that they would have to reprogram and give him, um, a certain status.

17:22Um, it, it sounds like a big job considering how much work it seems to be just to turn the windows into brick walls. But also I think, uh, it contradicts, you know, the, um, the whole, uh, the heaven matrix that didn't work. I think it goes against that. I think they couldn't make, I mean, first of all, I don't think what Cypher was asking before it would make him happy, but also, uh, I, I think they, they, they wouldn't do anything to make him happy. Cause it would cause that, um, contradiction where he would try to wake up that they always keep people at a midway level of misery. Which, cause Neo has his, his, his dead end job and his boss is clearly unhappy and everyone's, uh, all his friends are all like on drugs and stuff.

18:04It's this whole, you know, societal commentary. And I think they wouldn't do anything to take, they wouldn't give Cypher a scenario in the matrix. That wasn't that, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then also it's all just in Hugo Weaving's, um, body language when he says, I want to be someone important, like an actor. And he just gives this shrug, like, and says, whatever you want. He's not listening to him. That's so that to me was exactly the signal where like, he's like, whatever you want, Mr. Reagan. And he's like, that's like the response that you expect someone who's not prepared to really commit to that. But I love, but also Cypher says, I want to be important, like an actor, like he hasn't even given him an answer. You know what I mean? Cypher also hasn't said anything. Like he's just. Like he would have asked like, what kind of actor? Yeah.

18:45Portographic actor? Someone who. Anyway. We're kind of going for that. Someone who did both Lord of the Rings, but also V for Vendetta, that kind of actor. And he's like, no, no, a real actor. And in that moment, Smith's like, fuck you. I'm more of a baby's day out kind of guy. Oh. No. No. I want to be Arnold level kind of. Give me some muscles. Dude, that's good. Arnold level. You're sweet. Yeah. I don't want to play like a sleazy cop in Memento. I'm sick of that shit. I want to do Total Recall. I want to be the hero. Hero. Who doesn't speak English, nor does he look like an average person, but always plays the average man. I love that. The average American. Well, we, we, we. Yeah, we did talk about this. This is treading the same thing. But hi, Johnny. I didn't notice you there.

19:26That's me. It's like Tommy Wiseau, but popular. My favorite customer. What I want to say is that the, the thing we're talking about, the machines, whether they would give him or not what he wanted, is I think it depends on their morality, like how they see these things. Yeah. That's the first thing. But what I wanted to say was that, um, I think that, I think he mentioned this before. I'm not sure if he did though. Um, I think Cypher kind of messed up in his plan. I feel like he should have not asked for his memory to be wiped. I think he would have had a much better time being in the Matrix as himself because otherwise he's kind of defeating the purpose of, of really helping himself out there. I guess that was more, I think the, the point of the writers kind of, you know, getting a

20:10point across, like he wants absolute ignorance. I think if we would look at him realistically, he would want to know that the Matrix exists and then exploit it within the Matrix. That would probably fit more of his character. I mean, I understand the idea, like it's supposed to be. Like it's supposed to be exemplary. Like this guy is so, yeah, yeah. He's so hated so much. He doesn't want to remember anything. He just wants complete ignorance. And that's why he says it. And it makes sense for him to kind of be the opposite of, of these guys, you know, Neom and Morpheus and everything. Oh shit. I just thought of something. Total acceptance. Yeah. I just, I just thought of something, you know, the way that there were previous Zions. What if Cypher was in those Zions and he's like, this is the last time. And they're like, fuck it. We're not putting you back in this time.

20:50Cause this, you were good. Just betraying all these people. Okay. That he keeps, they keep putting them in and he keeps figuring out, but then there's a new generation of Zion back then. And they're like, you know what? This guy's great for like recycled use, but they eventually just got sick of him. Cause then he started asking him to, he just want, originally he just asked to be put back inside, but now he's saying, I want to be a famous actor. And they're like, ah, we draw the line at actor. Actor is the highest position. Well, they, they put it since it's set. The matrix is perpetually set in 1999. They, uh, they put them back in, but they made them the star of wild, wild west. And that wasn't good enough for him. So, you know, Anyway, the way, uh, Joey is acting, um, when he's like, if you told us the truth and all

21:35that kind of stuff, I mean, I like how he's no restraints there. He's just, um, just treating Morpheus as just a dead body and going and just wagging his finger at him. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. It's really great. And then there's a, and so, uh, Trinity goes, the matrix isn't real. So what do you guys think about that? What do you guys think about that line? And this is the whole pivotal question. One of the questions in the matrix. Yeah. Like, um, what kind of a, do you think that's a good enough retort? Not really. Well, I think, I don't know. What do you think, Seamus? Um, yeah, well, it's kind of, it's at the heart of what makes this film still very compelling because I like the idea at the end of the third one that they let people leave if they want to, because I mean, you know, there's, it's a fascinating thing about like knowing more

22:23about the world is scary, but it makes you better. But what if you don't want it? Or what if it's too much for you? You can argue that you have the right to not have it if you don't want it. And so she says like, it's not real. Like, but what does she mean by that? She's like, don't you want to be better? Don't you want to be like us? And maybe he just doesn't want to, maybe he just doesn't have it in him. Or maybe she's saying to him, it's not what you think it is. And it could be, she, she knows, she seems to know him better than anyone else on the ship. They seem to be, and maybe she's saying to him, I know what you're, you know, you're going to reinsert my body back, blah, blah, blah. And she's thinking you probably, you know what I mean? Like, I'm going to go have this life.

23:03And he's, she's more saying, no, it won't be fulfilling to you. And that in sense, it's not real. Yeah. I think Trinity, she doesn't really have a compelling reason using her words, but I think that she's, I always figure that she's alluding to the fact that they probably had this argument, you know, over and over and over again before in the past. And so here, she's just trying to make a final, you know, case like, like you were saying, it's not real. Like it, it won't be fulfilling. Like you mentioned, she's like, it's not real. Like how many times do you have to tell you this, you know, but obviously that depends on, you know, it was free pizza. What'd you think? Free pizza. But does she, that's the real question I can't answer.

23:44Does she want what's best for him or does she doesn't like her ideology? That's a good question. Or, or is it that she just doesn't like her ideology being challenged? Well, considering that she doesn't talk about him afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. They don't give a fuck about him. That's true. Like, I don't learn the lesson. There's some cut scene where Morpheus is like, they're like, we got, we got you Morpheus. Do you want to know how this happened? He's like, no, I know. Cypher did it. I know. I think, I think you're totally right. Actually there, the Trinity, I think most, we don't know, obviously the opinions of the rest of the crew members, but I think that more or less they're on the same page that they all agree to this sort of, you know, like they all value truth enough to suffer

24:25through reality because that, that's what they're searching for, right? They're searching for truth, capital T truth. Yeah. And they're all on the same page. Because I don't think they're searching for the truth. I think it's the fact that they know the truth and that's like, that's like disgusting to them that, that it's just like an ideology thing. I don't think they're as much empathetic to other people. Maybe some people are more. I would, I would say maybe people like Trinity or someone else from the crew is more empathic, empathic or empathetic? Empathetic. Then like someone like Morpheus, it's more ideology. I can't even say words. It's fine. Yeah. Ideology. But, but it's, it's like that, you know, the sort of disgust of, it doesn't really matter

25:07what it means. Maybe even if you look at it from a different perspective, maybe the lie is better for you and you know, and it's actually healthy for you or whatever. It doesn't matter. It's better for you, but it just, it's worth it to, to know that it, you know, that it's a lie and you should like reject it. And no matter what the, you know, uh, like the opposite is, it's worth it. Even if it's worse, just because it is, you know, it's a lie. Yeah. But it's a different, it's a strong standard and it doesn't matter. And that's, that's basically a response. It's, it's not real. And your argument is invalid. It doesn't matter whatever you say. Yeah. It doesn't matter because that's what I believe. And I believe it's not real. I could be like somebody would beating me overhead with a, like a stick for a hundred years.

25:50You know, I would rather take it than, you know, like the people say, I, you know, I rather be as dead than a slave. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's sort of like kind of resolution. Or you'd rather like face the horrible truth that you've been enslaved than try to justify your, your enslavement or try to, you know what I mean? Sympathize with, you know, like, and it's harder to hold onto that, but it's ultimately better. Yeah. I mean, like I probably would be a slave and alive than free and dead. Yeah. That's, that's, you know, they always have those, like, you know, those when a revolution is like, no, I'd rather. I wanted to say that I wouldn't put it so strongly. I never got the impression that they're disgusted by people who have different viewpoints. I just think. Oh, sure. My conclusion is that, that they simply are not interested in having a discussion.

26:33That's not their goal as like a crew. They're not disgusted with other people. They're disgusted with that notion. You know what I mean? Like they would never allow themselves. Oh yeah. For themselves. Yeah. They wouldn't. Yeah. I'm just saying like, like their whole sort of goal here is to, you know, go forward with their mission, which is sort of like, you know, spreading the truth, the gospel, the gospel of the real, the real world. And it's, I'm sure. Trinity's probably also just lost patience with Cypher. Yeah. I feel like he's made multiple advances. Yeah. I just, I just get that vibe. I just. Which makes me wonder if they can actually do Kung Fu in the real world because, I mean, there's nothing stopping them doing that.

27:14Yeah. I mean, do they do a little? They do a little in Revolutions or Neophyte Smith. Yeah. And they kind of, yeah, they don't, they don't really tap into that. Because I always thought that if you know it, you know it. I don't know. This is. Well, no. Because it's muscle memory, you know. Yeah. We talked. Okay, fine. Fine. We're not going to retread this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, if you would have told us the truth, we would have told you to shove that red pill right up your ass. Yep. Classic line. But that's the, that's the thing that's, that's, that you guys are saying, oh, this is all the truth. And then he's like, this isn't the truth. If you told us the truth about this, like, what does, what does Cypher mean with that? Does he mean, if you told us this place was ugly and ratty and full of machines?

28:00He's saying the whole story, yeah. That to Cypher, he feels duped by Morpheus. He feels like Morpheus made him buy into this stuff without actually giving him a fair, you know, realistic assessment. So what? Instead of him being ideological, he wanted Morpheus to come up to him. So Morpheus would have to come in with like a folder and be like, okay, here's some photos of Sentinels. Yes, he wanted that. Do you know what these are? They're going to chase us around. Yeah. Because Cypher is a down-to-earth guy, he doesn't like these, you know, he's not into what Morpheus is talking about. He has another photo. These are pods. His values are, the importance of his values lie somewhere else than to Morpheus. Morpheus is just the, you know, ideology in the mission. But to Morpheus, like for him, it doesn't matter. You know, he's sort of like beyond the fact that like, he's not thinking about what the

28:42real world looks like, what the matrix looks like. These are all for him just conditions that are, you know, from then. Probably blind to it, you know, to them. Like what he eats or what he wears or what's happening. He doesn't care about that. He's an idea man. He doesn't look like he has, well, there's the sequels, but whatever. In this movie, he doesn't look like he has in a relationship. He doesn't look like he has any ties that are more human. He's very focused on his mission. Yeah. So he wouldn't even think of explaining, you know, we see him, we see him explain the matrix to, to, to Neo. What the hell was that about? That was so vague. So of course, like, he was like, you know, you want to know what the matrix is? I'll show you. Just take this pill. Because he's thinking of things via, you know, like, us versus them.

29:24He's thinking of very, you know, like, broad, stroke, big picture stuff. Yeah. It's, I, it's completely morally questionable, his methods of recruitment. Like, could he not just make this very clear before? Like, give them a choice? Yeah. We talked about this too. We're wondering, like, you know, is, is Morpheus fair in his dealings? I don't have an answer because like, maybe if he told Neo everything without freeing him, I think maybe he has to free him. Otherwise he'd be killed within minutes. I think if he gave him the whole, I'll get, you know, like men in black, I'll give you until, uh, sun, uh, till sunrise to think it over. I think that's the, the agents would kill him in that time. So maybe, maybe it's the only way.

30:06Could have just explained, uh, you know, to sort of say, you know, the reality is actually really harsh. So we live in the sewer, Neo. You don't have to go like that specific, but it's very harsh. Living conditions are terrible. You would be sacrificing a lot of comforts for this. That is true. And, and telling that to Cypher, he would immediately say no, because that's where his values are, you know, comfort. He would say, you know what? I don't care, you know, buddy. Yeah. I'm gone. I'm gone, man. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, uh, probably, yeah. Nah, man, nah. Okay. Get that pill out of my face. Yeah. Chill it. Uh, to wrap this up, the only thing left that I can comment on is before Apoc dies, you know,

30:46you know, you have to watch Apoc die. And I just love how Jason Arahanga, who plays me, Apoc goes, Trinity. That's, that's good shit. Yeah. That, that he knows. Yeah. He doesn't know fully, but he, he sees the look in her eyes and he's like, something's going down and she looks back at him and it's like, fuck. Yeah. That's, that's good shit. Yeah. Yeah. And I also like to, in these moments, you know, I think that we can see, uh, just how, you know, how much trust there is between the people on the Nebuchadnezzar. I think they're all very, I mean, they're not necessarily very close, but they're all, they all understand each other, you know, and they all, they all trust each other. Yeah. I think that, that shows very well within these moments. And then, and then, and then. I just think they're fear of their life so bad right now.

31:27I like that they do. What? What did he say? I think it's just, it's just a fear for their life, really. I wouldn't, I wouldn't see it as connection between them. It's more like, I would never see them all like connect. It's just like, really, they're like scared. I never got the feeling of them like being butts. They have, they have, they do have a sense of fun because it's, I love that when they're playing cards and your man's like, Morpheus is fighting Neo and they're like, oh sweet. Like, and I love that they, that's, it's one of the few moments because otherwise they're pretty fucking cold. But in that moment that they're like, oh shit, we got to check this out. Yeah. Um, I think there would be like a couple of, um, like, you know, groups. There would definitely be Morpheus by himself. And sometimes he talks to Trinity, right?

32:07Then you have the, the unplugged guys besides Morpheus. So that would be, uh, Trinity, Apoc and Switch and Mouse. They would be hanging out together. I would say. Mouse on the corner. Definitely the non-hole guys. They just keep themselves the brothers. Yeah. The brothers. I don't think they hang out much with the, with the unpluggies. Well, I mean, for lunch. I guess, but they're like, I know, but they're always, maybe they only sat at the table that one time for Neo's sake, cause he's new. Maybe. But otherwise, and they already feel them going like, oh God, you know, if they're not talking about the fucking, how bad the food is, Mouse is talking about. The woman in the red dress. Dress. Yeah. It's the same story every, every, every time. Here it comes. But they do probably have lots of great conversations when they're doing training.

32:49Cause, um, Tank always has to monitor them. How much do they do training, Philip? How much? Whatever. I mean, like if you played, uh, we played Path of Neo and there were a bunch of training that we have to train with. Yeah, but you can do that. Okay, whatever. They definitely, uh, they definitely watch television. Uh, and I can tell you how I know that is because Tank, who's never, Tank, who's never been in the Matrix, makes pop culture references. Yes. Mikey, I think. Hey, Mikey. He's been watching stuff on the little, well, yeah. His favorite show is the Powerpuff Girls. Definitely. I think that's, that's plausible. That's very plausible. Yeah, very plausible. Yeah. Uh, and he also, but he also likes ads. I think they're interesting because they're like little, short, short and sweet, but they're also time capsules. You know what I mean? Think about it. He's looking at information from the, uh, a hundred years ago or 200 years ago.

33:33And it's, I keep forgetting that. You watch ads from the sixties and they tell you so much. You know what I mean? Like, so it's Mikey, I think he likes it. That's from an ad, isn't it? That's, that's an American ad, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's a life serial from the 1970s. Oh, is it? Okay. Early eighties. Okay. So there you go. Yeah. So he watches TV. So they, I think they do have fun, but it's just, do you want to watch them? It's, that's just Gogglebox. If you want, if they're going to, if you wanted to watch them doing that, but you know what happens. Yeah. We're watching Dark City today. Anyone want to watch this? You're all. Oh, Dark City. So I haven't watched that in ages. So good. Me neither. I watched it once, but it was good. Did you see Gods of Egypt? That was his latest film. It's pretty. Wait, that was the same. Oh no. We watched that on Skype.

34:15Yeah. Yeah. We watched it. We watched it. I liked it because it was really inoffensive. People were like saying, oh, it's like a fucking Tommy Weezo movie. And I'm like, no, it's not. That said, I was, I was also like, it is bad though. It is. But I, it was entertaining. It's very heartless though. I enjoyed it. But, um, it was entertaining for a bit and then it just got really painful. It was just, it didn't end. It was just like, where's this going? I said it was like, I remember I wrote a review of it and I said it was like a live action version of a sequel to Aladdin. So, you know. Oh yeah. That's interesting. Not, not good, but you'd watch it. Like you'll watch. Maybe a sequel to Aladdin 3. Yeah. So after the, the 40 Thieves.

34:56Yeah. Yeah. That's his book game next. He also directed The Crow. So, you know, he's. I have not seen it. Oh, really? Yeah. So that, that's not bad. That's not a bad CD. Yeah. You used to do that on the rooftop playing guitar. Probably. Yeah. Deftones were in there. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, um, to end this episode, I guess we, we, we could do that. Ha ha. Uh, well, you can, uh, check us out on the matrix minute. That one. Ha ha. I got it. You got it. This time. And you can also, uh, check out Sean Hanley's. Seamus. Oh, wow. Sean. That's me. I'm sorry. Seamus. No worries. Happens all the time. He's a good friend.

35:36Seamus. Sean. One time someone, someone, someone accidentally tagged. He was so happy. Yeah. Seamus. What'd you say? Someone accidentally tagged Sean Hannity instead of me on Instagram. Sean Hannity. Yeah. Magic. Oh my goodness. And you can check out. I think Phil was so excited of getting the, uh, you know. I think so. He was so happy. I could see on his face. He got the matrix minute dot one website, right? And he was. I think just. And he forgot for a moment there. Shut up. No worries. Go on, Phil. Uh, you can check out his work at, uh, um, enlightenment pictures. Yep. Yes. I got it right. Eighth dimension. Oh, yeah. Eighth dimension. Podcast. And it's all on best place to go to twitter.com forward slash Seamus Hanley and go to a facebook.com

36:20slash middle finger movie. I've got so many sites. The Twitter is the best one to go to, but yeah. Well, talk about your movie really quick since you're here. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a superhero comedy. Um, I wrote, directed, starred in it, uh, and did the music and edited it and all bunch of the stuff. And, uh, I play at a stretch an 18 year old who gets, uh, chosen to be by it. Not unlike Morpheus kind of being, uh, I'm turned into a superhero and the only catch is, uh, I don't know what my powers are. And my head is a hand giving the finger. Yeah. That is magical. That sounds lovely. It's inspired by earthworm Jim and the tick stuff like that. Uh, and also trauma's movie, uh, Sergeant Kabuki man in YPD. And by a weird twist of face, trauma themselves ended up releasing the film.

37:03So, uh, yeah, I noticed that. That's awesome, man. Yeah. Yeah. That was unreal. Lovely. Yeah. That's sweet. So go check out that stuff. Yeah. And we'll see you later. Bye. I'm kidding. Go on, go on. Okay. Okay. We're back. Bye everyone. Bye. Bye. Thank you.