Minute 76: ”…I hate giving good people bad news.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00The Matrix Minute or Matrix Minute. Whatever, I've said that at the beginning of the episode. Did you say the same thing twice? No, I said The Matrix Minute or Matrix Minute. Because I remember I said that at the beginning of the episode. But we were figuring out the name. Yeah, I want to juggle a few of the variations here. Merry Christmas, it's the holidays. I hope you're having a great... The official name is The Matrix Minute. Yeah, there's no juggling for you, my friend. There is no juggling. Okay, well, I will juggle some Santa Claus hats and say Merry Christmas, wonderful December. Hope you have some tea or some hot cocoa. I would say have a fun time during the holidays. Yeah, and... Chillax, don't stress out. Yeah, don't stress out, chill out, you know, eat cookies.

0:41Don't let work stress you out. I still have a cookie. Family members you haven't probably seen in like a year stress you out, you know. Yeah, choose reconciliation. They've got their political opinions. Exactly. They're probably wrong, but you know, you gotta chill. It's a time where we can come together at the table and talk to each other. Yeah, because Christmas is awesome. Yes. And that's a magical song. Yeah, go look up... Seriously, go... Okay, pause the podcast. Yeah? Go to YouTube and write Christmas is Awesome by Ruben, the band. Ah. Yeah. Go watch it. You're in for a treat. Yeah, you gotta eat a sprout, you gotta suffer too. Exactly. And it's probably, you know, the best Christmas song. It is the best Christmas song.

1:21One of the best Christmas songs. Yeah. The modern... Go check it out. Yeah, modern. Exactly. Yeah, man. Yeah. I gotcha. Gotcha. Submit it to 76. All righty. The 70s are approaching. Punk is rising in New York in the scene. You know, Andy Warhol and all those beatniks, they're turning into avant-garde. Mm-hmm. And, uh... Jaws came out last year and, um... They're filming Star Wars. They're filming Star Wars. Wow. Which is coming out December 14th. Which might be today. I'm not sure. Oh, yeah. Star Wars. We're gonna do, uh... Oh, yeah. If you're interested in an opinion on Star Wars, we're probably gonna do a Star Wars episode

2:02on your guys' podcast. Yes. Yeah. So... The new... The new... What's it called? The D.I.D. The Last D.I.D. Oh, no, no. Yeah, yeah. Last Jedi. Um... Is coming out tomorrow. In Slovak. It's... So that means that if it's coming out tomorrow, and if you want to listen to our opinions... Oh, yeah. This is gonna be crazy. On Star Wars, you can go to... Type in Google. This is me just telling people what to Google today. This is... Tell them. Tell them. Instructions for the internet with Jake. Go on. But we'll also... Dude, we'll also put show notes. We're like the lamest show notes, people. We have so few. Yeah. Mostly you forget to put them in the end anyway. I think that's really the thing. To our other podcast. We have a podcast called Phil and Jake in Conversation.

2:44We'll put a show... We'll put a link in the show notes. Yep. And hopefully by then, we'll have the episode out. It's a podcast we started in 2013 when they started Star Wars Minute. And shout out to Star Wars Minute, please. Shout out. I want to be on Star Wars Minute. Thank you. Why don't you... Wait, wait. I want to be there, please. Are they going to do the new Star Warses? Are they done with all the Star Warses? Yeah. They're on episode three, which means they've done four, five, six, one, two, and three. Oh, okay. So that means that after three, they go to seven, eight. And then Rogue One. And then eight. Oh, yeah. Rogue One. Rogue One. Yeah. Don't worry. If you... We did the previous one as well. I think it was like five years, five hours long. You don't have to... I wouldn't recommend listening to that one. Oh, episode seven. And I don't think it'll be that long this time.

3:25No, no, no. I think we're much more... You know, it was like the first hobbit, you know, a lot of anticipation, a lot of opinions. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, that's a little minor plug if you're interested in such a thing. So this is Minute 76. Phil, take it away. The Oracle continues to tell him that no one, not even her, can convince him otherwise. She tells Neo that soon he'll have Morpheus's life in his hands, and in the other, he'll have his own. He will have to make the choice. She hates to give him bad news and tells him he has a good soul, but she assures him that as soon as he gets out of here, he'll start feeling better. Also that he's in control of his own life, as she nods with a smile.

4:08He doesn't believe in that fate crap. This was one of the most confusing things in the entire film for me. Well, that's why we're here to talk about it. To this day... Explain yourself, Jacob. I don't understand... Explain yourself! ...the shift of... We were talking about the one. We were talking about, is he the one? Is he not the one? And then I remember ever since watching this movie for the first time, it really just feels like a really jarring turn to suddenly a completely different prophecy. Or is this the prophecy? Is this the main... I think this is the real prophecy she's giving. Yeah.

4:48This is what, like... This is equivalent to... This is where it gets serious. The music is telling us. Trinity's saying that she'll fall in love with the one. The wonderful harp is there. This is the same equivalence. Yeah. This is the prophecy for him, specifically. The one that's written down in books. And stone. The ancient scrolls. And runes. The ancient scrolls. It just confuses me that she just says that through the course of the upcoming events that are going to happen, Neo will either have to sacrifice his own life to save Morpheus's, or Morpheus will sacrifice himself saving Neo. But the choice will be... Morpheus is going to sacrifice himself for Neo, but Neo can, you know...

5:32You can counteract that. Sacrifice himself. Yes, yes. It's not like... Yeah. This sounds like a SWAT team. What a great... Yeah, yeah. We're a choice. You can change the... So basically, like she said, he can choose, should Morpheus live or should Morpheus die? If he lives, Neo has to die. Yes. It's the yin-yang. It's the opposites, the negatives. So we can boil it down to... It's the problem of choice. It's the door on the left, door on the right. Oh, you're like... Not necessarily. I think this is... Well, there's one thing that's interesting is that we talked about is, you know, she's a trickster. Is she a program... She's a master manipulator. That's what she is. We were talking about this, but I think that what she says about this, she gives in a pretty,

6:12you know, concrete example that she can actually see the future. And I think... That's the thing that confused me a lot, because like, before we were talking ambiguous stuff, who knows if it's real, and suddenly this is super concrete. Her saying, this is going to happen exactly like this, but you can change it if you... So whichever way she does it, is it spiritual, is it technological? I think for the universe of the Matrix, she can actually sell the future. I mean, evidently, not evidently. Actually, yes. She can mathematically calculate and estimate what will happen. Yeah. I think it boils down to the same thing with the vase. It's the vase thing. She can see the future of the vase, and she gives people the exact amount of information for that to happen.

6:54And it's sort of like... Do you remember... Give the outcome she wants. Yes. Yes. Do you remember... That's the whole point of what she is. Yeah. And I think she's a slave to it as well, in a way. She's just aware of it. Because remember, there's like just a few versions of time travel in storytelling, in movies, you know? There's the alternative dimensions when there's different outcomes, if you, let's say, go to the past and change things. And there's this like linear stuff, like in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, when they travel back... I thought it was back in the future, but okay. Is that... No, back in the future, there's an alternative. Oh, because the Harry Potter version is... Fixed. It's always been what it has been. Yes.

7:34The... What do you... Oh, right, because... Yeah, okay, I remember. Because the... There's no... Because they redid it. There's no change. Events affect each other already. The events already happened. They just weren't aware of them being there, you know, because the other ones that came to the past were hiding from them, but they were always there. Yeah. And I think this is the case... Was that just in the movie, though? I think? I don't think in the book. No, that was in the books as well. Yeah. Didn't read the third one. Just the first. By the way, the third one's the best book, in my opinion, and the sixth one is the second best. I don't know about the books. I mean... The third one, the books start to get more... Prince of the Halfblads! I think the books definitely get better at every book, because the sort of, like, the

8:17writing is more mature, and I think not even just, like, of the themes, but the artist, like, the way she uses writing techniques, like, in her monologue and everything gets better. Because the first one is just, like, he did that, and then she said that. I remember. That's funny. That's it. It's, like, for children. But then there's, like, all sorts of different perspectives. We move through different eyes. We, you know, we read other people's minds, and it's like, it's... Not read minds, but, you know, you hear their thoughts. Yeah. And it's great. But as far as movies, there's only one good movie, and that's the third movie. And I watched it recently again, and I love that movie so much. The third one is, I think, also the best one. It's the least... It's the least... It's the least, you know, what's that word?

8:57To the book? You always say that, like, it's, you know... Faithful. Yeah, it's the least faithful to the book. They omit a lot of stuff from the book, and that kind of ruins the other movies in the series that I have to explain afterwards. But that is such a well-structured movie. I think I've seen it so many times. And the music, and the... And the comedy. Oh, oh, oh. So good. Anyway, let's talk about that. It's a boggart, Harry. It's a boggart. It's a boggart. Oh, the actor. But anyway, the point is that I think she's just aware of everything. You know, it's that kind of, like, vision. And she knows that... Shout out to Harry Potter, by the way. Hi, Gary Roby. Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. But... Yes, shout out. She's aware. Like, with the vase, it's exactly the same thing as a vase.

9:39She can only say these things. She's aware of them, she's going to say them. But she's, like, omnipresent of all the, you know, time, you know? She can't change it, but... Oh, you're saying she is omnipresent. Obviously, she sees the future, but she can't change it. I don't think so. It's the same thing with the vase. She knows the things she needs to say for them to move, because that's the way it's set in stone. But, you know, that doesn't make sense. How could she... Okay, well, there's two ways, again, to look at it. Or multiple ways. But in this case, there's two, which would be... If she's omnipresent, then we're supposing some kind of supernatural stuff. But if we don't suppose that, then she can't. There's no way she can be omnipresent. Well, the thing is that it doesn't really matter, I think. I don't think it matters if it's technological or supernatural.

10:21Let's just say, for the sake... But if it's not supernatural, there's no way that she would know the future. She could predict the future with high certainty, but not 100%. Well, I don't know. The computer's so... So, you know, like, so time, we are as humans restricted with time, because we can't move about it freely. We are on a fixed, you know, a fixed, let's say, how you can walk from A to B. But there's different... There's choice, right? Like I said, so in this space, right? Our dimension. Space. You can freely move from A to B, right? Let's say that's time. Time is from A to B. So you're saying time flows. You have to keep moving the same speed from A to B, and you can't do anything about it.

11:02Yeah, there's actually a word for this, believe it or not. It's called the A theory of time. Yeah, the A theory. So basically, if that's the case, she's the person who can just do that. He can walk to A to B. They can't change it, you know, but they can, at their own speed, walk to A. And let's say, if time is like that, that means, you know, the sort of objective thinking of time is not restricted by this. So the machines have Doug technology where they can read the atoms, and they can read time through that, and they can see... I don't know. I'll just make it up right now. Okay, now you're just making... But it's interesting, because I remember learning about this. I kind of forgot. I'm actually not sure if it's actually called the A theory of time, but there's a...

11:45Basically, there was two views of time, which is one is that time flows, which is what you're talking about, where you go from A to B, and we're all on this track of time moving forward, right? Which means that we are creating the future as we go into the future, right? Yes. That's like the flowy theory. But there's another theory, which says that all time already happened, so to speak. Maybe that's what you mean. And when you're looking at different points on the timeline of time, those, I guess, all exist simultaneously. So there is no flow. It's all fixed. Does that make sense? Okay. And we just have the perception of time. Yeah, because we're limited, because we're humans. Our brains are like how we see the world.

12:29We see it with color, but we only see a certain fraction of the spectrum. So maybe as living beings, we have to interpret time in a flowing manner. As a flowing, even though it's not flowing, for instance. Even though it's not. Oh, that's interesting. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That could explain. Maybe the machines have, you know, they evolved from us, our human brains, to, you know, have something smarter. So maybe they, as machines, can perceive time as the way you said. You can just look at any points. So that would make sense then, Jacob. You just answered your little question. But yeah, we should look into the theories. It's actually interesting, the debate on the different theories of time. But we should, in between, so by the next episode, we'd have a better answer.

13:10But I think, yeah, I remember learning about that. So yeah, I just always found it confusing that... Okay. Phil, do you want to say something? Or are you waiting to say something? No, no. We just under attack this. Well, I wanted to say this. Since we're here, talking about this prophecy, I found a great explanation for why this prophecy exists in the storyline. Can't remember where I read it. Or did we watch it? Did we watch a video? To me, it's just foreboding storytelling. It's great. Just gives you a little thing to look forward to. Anticipate. That when she explains that Neo has to either survive, which in which case Neo would essentially

13:50be choosing what I would, let's say, call like a coward's move. Where like, not necessarily a coward's move, but like, you would feel, you know, a lot of sense of guilt because you know that you could change the situation. Like afterwards, right? Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying that it is a cowardly thing to do, but you would definitely, it would affect you, I think, in a big way because you would be making that choice in a sense. Or you could take the step which Neo ultimately takes, which is he does go on a suicidal mission at the end of the film because if we take the Oracle's prophecy to be true, Neo is facing certain death, but he knows that he will save Morpheus.

14:30So the explanation that I heard was that because Neo took this, accepted this fate and said, you know what? I'm going to die. I don't matter as a person, like in the sense I'm not the one, I'm not special, but I want to do something good. I want to save Morpheus. Ah, nice. And so he accepts this and because he was willing to sort of like, you know, jump off this, you know, make this sort of leap of faith and say, okay, I'm just going to do this. That makes him the one because he went into the building to save Morpheus knowing he was going to die, accepting death, but then he actually ended up coming out being the one,

15:11right? Resurrected and Morpheus was saved. But had he gone there saying, hoping to also survive, it wouldn't be the same enlightenment realization thing that happens with him being the one. Okay. Well, I'll talk about that when we get to the part. So yeah. But I thought it was interesting because it relates to this whole Morpheus surviving or not. Oh, Morpheus. That's interesting because, you know, like as, as humans, there's a sort of specific groups of, you know, the decision taking action and then, you know, living with the fact that maybe taking action was the wrong move and you did the wrong or not taking action, living with the consequence of regret that you haven't taken the action and it could have, you could have done something.

15:51But in this case, it's interesting that he knows the outcomes of, well, sort of, it is presented to him. Maybe he doesn't believe it, you know, maybe he, he thinks he can save both of them. I don't know. Cause he never, oh, sorry. You know, he goes like, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to save Morpheus. I think the idea was that like, it was, it took a lot of courage on Neo's part, regardless of whether the prophecy was true or not, he made the choice to save Morpheus and put Morpheus' life in front of his, basically. Yeah, yeah. He wasn't, he wasn't acting himself. But if he doesn't believe he's the one, but if he doesn't believe he's the one and Morpheus is still looking for the one and he sees the dedication to Morpheus, maybe he's just like, you know what? I don't feel like the one. So I'm just going to.

16:32I don't feel like being the one. Well, that's what he's saying. He's like, I'm not the one. He's like, he's always thinking that like, you know what? You probably got the wrong guy. He doesn't think he's the one. So he's like, you know what? I'm just going to, I'm not the one. I'm going to let Morpheus find the one. Yeah. I mean, that's like, he's wrong about me. So, you know, like, right. You know what I mean? Like, why would he risk his life for me? Because I'm not the one, you know, if I die, then he's no. If I die, he knows I'm not the one and he can continue searching. Right. Like the rest of, like the five before him. What about those five other guys? Did they all die for you, Morpheus? I think that's why they took it out. Are you happy? I think that's why they took out that scene. We just had a eulogy for Eddie.

17:12Poor Eddie. It kind of ruins the whole, yeah. So, I don't know what else to say about this. What do you mean? There's, um. You tell us, Phil. Yeah, you tell us. So we talked about one of them dying and stuff like that. And he goes, you have a good soul. And I hate giving good people bad news. Or does she? Does she? He's a good soul. He's got a good soul. He's got a good soul. He's like a good dog, you know? Yeah. A good boy. Good boy. Good boy. You're a good boy. Just don't like giving people. 12 out of 10. Yeah. I wonder how she was talking to Morpheus on her first. Because if she was so vague about this stuff, how come Morpheus is so convinced of these things?

17:55I couldn't imagine from a conversation like this to be like, Morpheus, you will maybe find the one. Maybe the one will find you. Maybe you'll have to die. And Morpheus comes out, guys, you got the good news? I'll find the one. That's how he gets out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, you got that out of that? What is this? And she goes, poor Morpheus. Morpheus, he just sees what he wants to see. He sees what he wants to see. That is his Facebook bio. Seeing what I want to see. I see what I want to see. By the way, if you catch the one anywhere, let me know. My number is... She also says, are you sure you want to hear this? Right, that's right. That's interesting. Are you sure you want to hear this? I like that because it makes you come a little closer.

18:36Like, what? Anyway, at the end, she just goes, don't worry about it. As soon as you walk, as soon as you step outside that door, you'll start feeling better. You'll remember you don't believe in any of this fake crap. It's so funny because how she says it is that you are comforted by her words, but at the same time, you understand that, why would she say something like that at the end? And in that tone, really just showing that, like, you know, it sounds almost condescending in a way. She's just like... Well, then when she goes, you're in control of the crap. Fake crap. Yeah, that tone is so much like... And she's smiling. The fake crap. Yeah. You would go, yeah, I am, but why are you saying like that? Why don't you... I guess that ties in what we were talking about in the previous episode.

19:19She's just... She knows that on his path, he needs to be, you know, is not sort of like, you're the one. Because realistically... He needs to find his own, yeah. If she really didn't have a certain outcome, like you said, that she has to execute, right? Or something that has to happen. Yeah. If that wasn't the case, then she wouldn't even talk about anything else. She would just come... Neo would come up and she would say, oh yeah, hey, what's up, Neo? You know, you believe in your own stuff, you don't believe in fate and that stuff. Oh, cool. See you later. But I have to say, there's going to be a point where Morpheus might get captured by agents and Cypher. She doesn't say that. She just says... She's very ambiguous.

19:59If it wasn't for that. Oh, yeah. She would just build it and she'd be like, want some tea? And he'd be like, yeah. Yeah. She'd be like, all I have is liquor. Yeah. But the funny thing is that the way she says it, it's ambiguous. Only us that are watching the entire movie know she's telling the future. But the way she says it to Neo, there's no damn reason why he should believe her. You know? That's what I'm saying too. But he does. He does. You know, well, the music tells us, but he's also tells his head a bit. And he's like, 1% chance we have to take it as an absolute certainty. But we also have to remember that Neo, I've noticed something about Neo. He really... His opinion is often based on what's the most popular opinion at the time. So if Oracle says, you don't believe in a fan, your copy's like, yeah, yeah, you're right.

20:44She's like, you know, you are the one. Oh, I am. Oh. You know, he kind of goes with... Yeah. With the... Goes with the flow. I mean, really, if you think about it, the only absolute so far for Neo is that he doesn't believe in fate, which he explicitly stated at the beginning of the film. That is his one strong point that he hasn't budged on is, I don't believe in fate. Yeah. Yeah. Magical. How would you guys feel if you visit the Oracle? I mean, obviously, you don't mind. I would love to talk to you. I would probably just be like, full of shit Oracle. I'm believing. I'm taking your cookies. He takes the... Yeah, that's a Timothee. I would hang out and be great. I'm taking all the cookies. I think it'd be cool. Hang out. Like, what if she gives you like this sort of like ambiguous feel to like classic, you

21:24know, fortune telling, ambiguous answers. I would give her ambiguous answers back. I may or may not believe you. Exactly. I love, I love, there's an episode of Adventure Time when Finn gets trapped in this cavern and then this cat, this weird cat. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's a favorite. And he goes, how does this? I have approximate knowledge of all things. Yes. Or many things. He goes, Phil the human boy. And he's like, what? You almost got that right. That's the fence. I think it's hilarious. It's so good. And so it's all approximate. Yeah, it's approximate. It's almost, almost, almost the future. Was it, was it approximate knowledge of all things, right?

22:04It should be. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Approximate. Oh, it's great. That was good. So what would you tell the Oracle? Or would you, how would you act in her presence? I mean, I think if somebody, you know, tells that they're the Oracle, you know, and then doesn't go into like super specific, like, oh, prove it, you know, kind of mode. I don't think I would, I would believe like, yes, in this case, that's the only way how to get Neo to do what he wants without telling him how to do it. But to me, it's like, if this is real life, I would really want to, you know, test out the Oracle. Yeah. What am I holding in my hands?

22:45You know, I'll be, what is this? What is his name? Not believing Peter? No, what is it? Doubting Thomas. Doubting Thomas. Doubting Thomas Anderson. I'll be doubting Thomas. Well, yeah. Let me see your holes, Oracle. Is that part of the name, though? Let me see your holes. Wait. Thomas. Yeah, Thomas Anderson. We talked about that as we mentioned in the beginning. There's a correlation there. Oh, it's coming back. Yeah. Even though it was never really like Thomas in this case, he doesn't really fully doubt. Also, but he's Jesus in this wall, so he can't be Jesus in this wall. He's everything. He's Buddha, Jesus, everything. Yeah. Recargated, resurrected, whatever. Brahmacandra. Well, we talked about this. This is all mushed together. Well, we said like, you can't, if you're going to go with one, you have to go with one. But at the same time, the movie has all of them.

23:26The Brahmin. Yeah. You just have to kind of like, you know, swim about. Yeah. What about you, Phil? Uh, I just hang out. Hanging out. Just hanging out? Yeah. Hanging out. Phil takes out his iPad and starts drawing. And she's talking. And Philip, Philip, Philip, are you listening? Huh? Mm-hmm. I think Phil would draw the oracle. No, no. Yeah, he'd draw the oracle. And then he goes, do you like this picture? Huh? You know? You like, it's cool. Can I add you on Facebook? Can I add you on Facebook? Yeah. Oh, I, my sons have shown me Facebook. And he's like, so Philip, think about what I said. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, oh, I'm at lunch. Do you have sushi around here? We have a noodle store. I've been telling you for 50 years, you're going to eat the sushis, and you're going

24:10to die of poison. You haven't been listening to my promise. You will eat a blowfish. That will not be properly cleaned. The fugu, the ancient curse. Oh, okay. And you will die a horrible death. Oh, man. I can imagine just Phil sitting in that corner. I can too, yeah. With the drawing with the iPad. Mm, good cookie. Yeah. I was drawing the oracle. Can I add a cookie? Can I add a cookie? Not listening to a word she's saying. Ah, that's where you're wrong. I listen to everything when I draw. That is true. Ah, magical. Yeah. The last episode of The Matrix. Or no, that was our own podcast. Oh, was that me? I stopped listening? No, I was explaining something, and you were like, and you come in like, you didn't explain this. And it's like, where were you? I was away. Oh, yeah. That was. That was our own podcast. But it doesn't happen a lot. No. No, no, no. This is joking.

24:50Just joking. I can find a film. Lovely times. That's it for this episode. Lovely jubbly time. Next time, find out if cookies can transfer code or not, or other annoying theories. Oh, man. Oh, yes. On The Matrix Minute. And we're going to go into the 1996 Friday. Is it Friday? I'll tell you. Oh, it's going to be a faction-packed Friday. A fraction-packed. It's going to be lovely. It's going to be great. Juicy. Full of teraflops. Full of teraflops. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A good Friday before the Christmas budget. Two weeks still. Mm, yes. Hey, wait, guys. What advent week are we in? One, two? Well, this is the 13th.

25:30Oh, you mean, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, two. Or three? Yep, two. Two. Two? Cool. No, three. Three. Who knows these things? Yeah, who knows? Light all the candles. You know what? Just light them all. Do, yeah, like, have, like, you know, like, four of those having candles. The more candles, the better. That's how I do, probably. If I had those. Yeah. And learn to survive with edged weapons. What do you mean? What does that mean? Exactly. That was pretty good. You have not seen the new Best of the Worst, have you? Oh, I don't know. I should watch it. The Wheel of the Worst. Oh, it's glorious. The Wheel of the Worst. The funny thing is, I've seen clips of that movie online.

26:14Like, people have posted, like, GIFs and everything. So, I was so excited. The edged weapons one? Yes, yes, yes. When he goes, when he comes out of the car, and he's like, oh, I haven't been drinking. That guy coming out of the car. And I was like, yes, yes, this is gonna be that. And I was so surprised they've never seen it. Oh. Because, A, it's, I've seen it on the internet all the time. And, B, it's from their town of Milwaukee. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. That's an amazing coincidence. That was fantastic. Yeah. All right. So, yeah, watch, yeah, it was, again, sponsored by Red Letter Meter. Uh-huh. Not really. I still haven't seen the other one you guys recommended with, like, Sasquatch. See, if we were covering a really obscure. Sasquatch, yeah. Weird art horror movie from the 1970s, then Jay Bauman would probably be on it.

26:59Probably would. Yeah. We'd probably be. Some weird European. We'd probably be having dead of boredom. Oh, yeah. After the third episode. Yeah. Yeah. We would be like, you know, to premiere this podcast, and three episodes later, it's canceled. One guest. One guest. Ourselves. Jay Bauman. Cancel that. Three episodes. Premier episode of Jay Bauman. All right. So, you'll find out all these goodies on Free Day. Free Day Friday. Fishstick Friday. Fishstick Friday. I like fishsticks. You don't like fishsticks, right? Are you a gay fish? I like premiere fishsticks. Do you like fishsticks, Tim? Not really. No. No. I don't know. I like fishsticks.

27:40I think I had a bad case of bad fishsticks that, you know, they were defrosting too long, and they kind of went bad, and then it was like icky, disgusting fish, and I just, I smell it now, and it's like, it reminds me of those bad. We should make our own fishsticks. They were dark inside, you know, not white, delicious meat. That's the worst, my friend. That's horrible. Dark, and then the crust was like half on it and half fallen off. Like leaking water. Oh, just bad fishsticks. Yeah, probably the best to do is make your own fishsticks, like you said. Yeah. That's probably the best. Like fish and chips. Yeah. Find the rare stickfish and take the sticks off the fish. You stickfish. You will die. Speaking of fish. On one hand, you will have the net's life.

28:22Watch the new Planet Earth 2 by BBC. I should. It is magical. Blue Planet or Planet Earth 2? We can watch the Blue Planet 2. That's what I wanted to say. You're getting a 4K TV at some point. So, yeah. Gotta watch the Matrix at 4K. I'll invite myself over and watch the movie. Hey, Matrix isn't on 4K yet. It's not yet on? No. No UHD discs yet. It doesn't matter because it's 2K. I know. It's true. It's very true. It was rendered 2K for the effects? Yep. Most, if not all movies. Yeah, even now, still today. Until recently. What horrible foolishness is that? Well, that's because it's... Jacob, did you ever complain when you watched a movie this whole time in the cinema? No. But if I were making movies and producing them and publishing them, I'd be like, we need to think

29:02of the future. I know. It's too much to have to double on the servers. The servers. The render farms. You have to render the effects shots. Yeah, that is true. I was telling Phil that. Like, the effects shots can be 2K. That's why when you're watching a movie... Oh, you're running the servers too. You can see the difference. Yes. You mean, like... You mean, it costs less to render everything 2K? Oh, wait. Like, the servers take a lot of time to process. Yeah. Especially if you have, like, 3D CGI, you know, like, stuff. So that costs a lot to render. Because, you know, shooting... They're already spending so much money. Shooting on 4K is cheaper. You have 8K cameras, you know, and everything. That's not that expensive to do. And, you know, for storing all that data isn't that much expensive. The rendering is the problem. Yeah, the rendering for the effects shots particularly.

29:43Which is why mostly these CG shots look a little more blurry than... Is that why? They just upscale them. Just render 2K and then just upscale. That's terrible. Yeah, I know. What are you going to do? Does it really make that much of a difference of a cost? I don't know. The last time I went to a visual effects house was in 2005. So it's hard for me to do that. Did you count the servers? That's not going to take 4K. Three servers. Three servers. Not enough. What was the effects rendered for the Matrix? Probably like 1080p and then upscaled? Yeah. Like 280 by 320? I wouldn't be surprised. 4 pixels by 2. Thank you. That's enough. You know, Toy Story was rendered at 720.

30:24And never again would have been rendered higher. Just a little bit higher than 720. Do they have the original files? No, no. Then they went... They did. They rendered it again for the Blu-rays. That's good. Sweet. And then they looked at it like, oh, wow, look at all the glitches we didn't see. Yes, yes, yes. I want to say, do you know what's weird? Like when you go back to old files like that, project files? I don't even know how they had those. I really believe, I believe, I could be wrong, but I believe that there must be glitches that happen in that render. Oh, they have to. The new render because, I mean... You just couldn't see it. You can never faithfully reproduce those files again unless you use the same computers. And hardware. Hardware. Because there's always junk that's going on in the background that's not going to be perfect when you reopen a project file.

31:06That must be weird. And then do you want to fix them? And then we have to ask ourselves the ethical question of, do you should fix it if it's now been confusing? Because they're rendering stuff, like lights and everything, that was, you know, like they didn't have the ideas of how to do that and they probably know how to do it better even with the same technology. They don't have to apply anything new. That's a big note. Just the light luminance here. I don't think they did. By the way, shout out to Toy Story Minute. Yes. Also, they, but yeah, like the Blu-ray is a 1080p complete, it's a re-render. Someone should do like a frame. It's not like the lighting has changed, but like the graph. I'm sure John Lasseter, when they hire,

31:47whoever's on that team to, you know, redo it, like re-render it, they probably had to sign an agreement that they will be sued for millions of dollars if they change something. No, I think that no, even the intention wouldn't be to change anything, but I just, I meant even correcting glitches that are obvious. Yes, if that's part of it. Because again, you have to take liberties to just assume, it's because it's the AB, the old and the new version, go, oh, it looks close. Yeah, but to be honest, it's like when they do restoration or like, you know, to 4K or whatever, they mess around with a bunch of stuff, you know, like colors and things. That's true, that's true. But that's another question. I want to tell you the story of Jurassic Park. How much you should do. Okay. Okay, so Jurassic Park. Shout out to Jurassic Park, man. Steven Spielberg has been known, Phil. And he has,

32:28he's like the opposite of George Lucas. He says, once the movie's out, that's how it is. There's a lot of mistakes and bloopers on, like, for example, with Jurassic Park, where you can actually see some lighting equipment that wasn't taken away, some potted plants in the background, when the T-Rex jet, you know, comes out of the fence, some wires and cables and all that kind of stuff. And he says, but those have to stay there because they're part of the movie. Because once it's released, it belongs to the audience. Yeah. And I agree with this philosophy. Tell that to all the way with the guns that disappeared into walkie-talkies. Yes. Yeah, the guns. And Spielberg said he apologized for that E.T. He got tricked. New edition.

33:08And yeah, and he didn't, and he was sorry that he had to do that to the fans of E.T. So now, whenever there's a newer E.T. edition, it's always going to be the old one. Oh, really? The original. So there's no more release of that nastiness. Yeah, none of the nastiness. However, for Jurassic Park 3D, they made some modifications. They took out a lot of stuff. Yeah. But maybe he's not interested in the 3D stuff. He's like, no one's going to wash that junk. Did you notice that? Like, like five years ago, by the way, this is the longest outro you've ever heard. I think this is the mega. It's longer than the actual episode. But did you, did you notice that like no one's selling 3D TVs anymore? Like five years ago,

33:49everything was like, oh, you got to get the 3D TV. Now it's just like, now it's about the UHD and about HDR. It is true. It is true. Yeah, HDR. Yeah. High dynamic range. I have yet to see a TV with high dynamic range. Yeah. In my opinion. It proves that some things are a fad. And some people can- comes back with Avatar 2. Oh my goodness. He's going to come back. He's going to be the king. Imagine if it's not going to be 3D, by the way. That would be hilarious. That's possible. I didn't think about that. But it's going to be 60 frames per second. Oh, is it going to be smooth, smoothness? You should just go 120 frames per second. Just like- 300, go nuts. Just get out. It's more than the eyes can see. Just like- Bring your dogs. Jelly people. They have high frame rates.

34:29They can watch. They can see it. Like, you'll be watching and it'll be so much like real life, you'll be embarrassed. It's true. It's true. Well, that was The Hobbit, remember? Yeah. Yeah. It was The Hobbit. It looked like actors on a set. I felt like I was there with the actors. Yes. I want a set. It didn't feel like you were the characters. It was the actors. Yeah. It's true. You could see- Anyway, I want to see the more movies with 48 frames. I would just love it. I don't know. I find it fascinating. Like, imagine watching, dude, like, imagine Jurassic Park in 48 frames. Okay. I mean, there you are. You can upscale it. You can smooth it out with those TVs. The smoothing motions they have on TVs. Yeah, but it's sort of hit and miss. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, because usually the motion,

35:10I've noticed that I think it works, the smoothing works well when there's less motion, I think. Yeah. When there's more motion. Because it is, and it's also capped for the, you know, 180 shutter speed, you know, whatever, on that frame rate, so it still doesn't work. Like, the motion blur is a bit off on the smoothing, so it's not true. It's close, but it's not true, no. It's not true, but that's hilarious, but like, you know, I think it's like, it misses the nuances of what makes it real, like, you know, the true motion of those actors and everything that kind of gives it away to the realness. You know, it is acting, it isn't like a movie. Too much giving away. We can just fade ourselves out

35:50while we show this bit. Just nuances. Anyone got some cookies? I'll have a lot of that. My last question to this mega ending outro is Peter Jackson. He was trying to pioneer the 48 frames thing. He was so bored of the Matrix. It's like a new format. But my question is, what happened to that in the sense of, did anyone at all, like, go, oh yeah, I'll try that too. James Cameron did. Besides James Cameron, he's exempt because he also... He's a madman. Yeah, he's a madman. But anyone else? Because it feels like it was only Peter Jackson doing that. Well, Ang Lee did for, I think, Life of Pi.

36:30Oh. I think that was 48 frames. Was that 48 as well? Oh yeah, that was like a big 3D extravaganza movie. Yeah, it was something. It was 48 frames, but that's about it. Interesting. Because it would just be, you know, intriguing to see more people try the 48 frames thing, but it seems like... It would be nice to see it on like a movie that was shot in real locations. Oh, good point. Like, you know... Good point. Like for documentaries, like they could make, you know, feature documentaries with that sort of frame rate as well. You know, they wouldn't have to be cinematic kind of scope. Which is so funny. Yeah, I agree. But it's just so funny because like it's not even, it's completely vanished from the consciousness. Yeah. Because it looked like shit. I mean, honestly. I know. I'm not advocating for it. I'm not, I think it looks bad.

37:11Like as for films ago, it doesn't work, but it's just fascinating to watch a movie like that because it's so different. The experience is so different. I mean, I understand like people were trying to, you know, what Peter was saying or maybe the people who were advocating it. It's like, you know, it is just a habit that you are used to seeing movies in this frame where it's not tied to anything. But the thing is, it's not that it's fixed on this point, but that there is a sort of difference. That's the point of it, you know? Yeah. I think it's not that fact. Okay. Yeah, it is a made up arbitrary number that we're used to that that's a movie, but it's good that there's arbitrary, you know, made up kind of thing that you can kind of switch off that that's a movie. And that's what you identify as movie.

37:52And I know maybe some people are like, let's move it to 48 because then you can see more detail. But I don't know. It's like, you don't see more detail when it's 48. Yeah. You just perceive detail. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Like, why, why, why would we have to, like, I don't know, it kind of complicates, there's not a lot of return, you know, on that investment of going there. I guess, though, the only thing that would be kind of good is that you can always have two options, which I'm not, I'm not advocating for this. If only we'd last time or have this future of two versions of our film. You can agree with it, Tommy Wiseau. Just shoot digital and film. I still want to see the digital version. Me too, man. The room. It would be even worse.

38:32It'd be great. Everybody in the States gets to watch The Disaster Artist. Yeah, we have to wait until 20th of February. Two months. Two months. I don't think he's going to come in. It's Jacob's birthday. Yeah. It's madness. I don't want to watch it so bad. Okay, see you later, everybody. Bye. Nice doggie. Good. Bye.