Minute 124: “Because I love you.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00The Matrix Minute, a podcast delivering you the finest in Matrix. Matrix extravaganza. Welcome, this is Minute 124. One, two... Oh wait, no, we can't do that anymore. Not anymore. No. Welcome. Three, two, one, penguins. Welcome, everyone. And we will welcome back, maybe just for a little bit longer, on our... Yeah. And she is, in fact, I think, our last official guest. That is true, Emma, you are our last final. That is true. You have the honors to being the final. Unless Phil Osterhaus comes or whatever. I was gonna say, unless he... Yeah, I just have to say that I always knew that I'm gonna be the one. That's true. You are the lady one. I like it.

0:40There's no lady one. There's only the one. Yeah, there's only the one. Who knows what the ones were before. We're very happy that you're here. It's just great, you know, it's just, it's a satisfying feeling that you're finding on the podcast. It's just like... I know, I'm very lovable. How outraged are you that the one is a man? Why does always be a guy? Yeah. What do you think about that? I really don't care. Yeah, you're not one of those who are... No, no. The feministas. I don't care. And Keanu is lovely. That's true. Keanu speaks for us all. Yeah. Keanu seems like a cool guy. Yeah, he is. I would like to meet him. Me too. I would like to meet him. If he's listening to this. Yeah, Keanu, if you want to be on the next

1:21last episode... You know where to contact us. Yeah, and Emma will be here in a second. So it'll be important too, I guess. Sign your name. The code is sign your name Keanu. Just Keanu. And we'll know it's you. Yeah, just email it. Ask at the Matrix Minute.com. That's how it is. Ask the Matrix. And the rest of you guys, if you try to impersonate Keanu, we frown upon this. Yeah, we'll find you. And that's not good. It's naughty. You'll have to deal with your conscience for the rest of your life. No, you sent a false email to the Matrix Minute. How bad will you feel? Do you know how excited we would be and then we just let down when it's not Keanu? Exactly. And we found out it's just one of you guys messing with us. Not funny. Not funny at all. We don't want that kind of behavior on the Matrix Minute.

2:04Yeah, this will not be tolerated. No, we will not. I like how we're creating fake conditions of fake emails we will never get. Except for Seb, who emailed us many times. And he's, you know, he's the best. Yeah, Seb, stop impressionating Keanu. Yeah, stop. Naughty. Or we'll have you back on the show to explain yourself. But we can't do that because Emma is the official last guest. Yeah, it's too late. She has this lot here. So, uh... Okay, so... One to four? Well, no, no. Let me tell you what happens in Minute 124. You know, I would just love to hear what happens. We only have four more episodes, guys. Oh, man.

2:45Sad. Sadness. It is sad. How about we let Emma describe what happens in this minute? I really don't remember, so... Well, I'll show you. I mean, look, I wrote this wonderful... Okay, Phil, you wrote a wonderful poem. Justice. Give it to us. Poem. Dear water, I carry you all day. Okay, this is what happens. Trinity looks at Neo's face. Because I love you. The Sentinels are still fighting their way into the hull. Trinity kisses Neo. Sparks literally flying in the background. Suddenly, Neo gasps, and his monitor begins to come to life again. He opens his eyes in the Matrix.

3:26Everyone's surprised. Even Smith and the agents. Neo gets up. And the agents furiously fire at him. But Neo just says, No. And holds out his hands. Or just his hand. And all the bullets slow down in front of him. The agents look in amazement. So, I can give you my comment right away. Okay. Neo is actually Sleeping Beauty. That's exactly my thoughts. It's the twist. That he, the sleeping lady, wakes him up from his dream. That is true. That is classic, yeah.

4:06Okay, so Tim. Now we're on episode two of this trilogy. Week trilogy. You wanted to mention something you said would make more sense to talk about in this episode. What was that? Yeah, and Emma stole it. Right off the bat. I am so sorry. It was my Sleeping Beauty. Because I wanted to wait until she actually kisses him to give the analogy of Sleeping Beauty. But, you know what? We're two peas in a pod. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know. We finish each other's fears. That's how it goes. We finish each other's fears. So, yeah. That's Sleeping Beauty. So, you also commented, Tim, that now you see the ways of understanding your parents' sigh with this. It is.

4:47I mean, the first half of my Matrix, like let's say the first three, four years, I kind of glossed over anything I didn't like particularly. Like I didn't mind because the movie was so great on so many levels that, you know, these kisses or whatever that's like, you know, that I wasn't impressed. I kind of pushed away. But watching this, you know, many years later, but now trying to analyze every bit of it, it does seem a bit silly that in the end, it's very Hollywood-y, you know, love, you know, is the strongest power. And all we can do is love and everything. That is what wakes up Neo being the one. It kind of undermines the whole thing of him dying.

5:27I don't think the one thing is a bad thing necessarily. It's just maybe in this movie, it didn't really feel like it. Yeah. Maybe if there wasn't the kiss, I think it would have been a bit more or less on the nose. If she just said, you know, I know you're the one because I love you. Now get up. And then he gets up. It's more like, you know, Lazarus, get up. You know, I think it's a bit more poetic than Hollywood-y like lips, I kiss. You know, like that. I mean, we can get to the script and you'll find out something. We had a 90-96 script. Where's Johnny? We'll leave it at the end or what? We'll do that. We always leave it for like the end. Okay. Okay. So, what's funny? What's funny?

6:08Can I read the secrets or no? No. Okay. Okay. So, the blanket is gone and now the sweatshirt is gone as well. It's becoming really hot in this room. It's my fart. The secrets. Yeah. So, after that happens, after she kisses Neo and gives him the kiss of the life. By the way, I just want to say that it lit so well. I love it. But I like what Tim said. Like, if she just did the just get up and fight, that would be amazing. I think it would be more commanding. This is more like, I'm a woman. I kiss you. You know what I mean? Is that something I would do? Yeah, you slap me and be like, Tim. But, you know, like, I would just get up.

6:50You can't be dead. So, we had a situation last week. Not getting into details. But I kind of messed up. I didn't, I didn't, like, file for some, like, things I had to do before. And, like, basically bad situation. I was doing the whole, oh, I don't know what I'm going to do, Emma. This is bad. Like, we both messed up something. I was like, oh, no. And Emma just went, stop it. We need to figure this out. So, just get a hold of yourself and we'll deal with this. And that moment, I snapped out of it. And I was like, and we figured everything out later on. That's beautiful. And, you know, I just, maybe, you know, Neil needed to snap out of his deadness at that moment.

7:31But I guess, you know, Snow White and whatever. Hollywood. Love, I guess. I don't know. In the 90s. How do you guys feel about this? What movie was it where some, I'm just thinking about, there's, like, this film where some, another, like, protagonist dies. And someone is, like, I think it's a woman who is in slow motion sort of trying to revive him. And she kind of just, just punches his rib cage. What? What is that? And he wakes up. I don't know. You have to get us the information. I don't know what that is. I'm just having, like, vague images. No one. I think it's a very old movie. What's it called?

8:12Like, Long Kiss Goodnight or something like that. I've never watched that, but I've heard that title before. Yeah. It's with this woman and her kid. And there's a scene in the end. I think it's on the bridge or something. And her mom is, well, presumed dead. And the kid goes, like, wake up, like, get up and fight and get us out of here. So let's call this the kiss of life. Now, I've gone to the good old website TV Tropes. And I'm going to list you some movies where the kiss of life. First one. First one. We all familiar on this podcast. Lord of the Rings. Arwen, you know, when he's in the water, she becomes a ghost.

8:54And she comes and he's like, I'll wake up. Right. That's true. Okay. That's a little. But it's not really a kiss of life. It's more of just, like, a kiss for motivation. He wakes up. It's not. He's dead. He fell. It's true. It's a dream as well. But it's a kiss of life. Anyway, what's the next little thing? Let's see. Jumanji. What? The Avengers. What? Oh, that's a joke. That's like, you know. You know in Avengers, when Tony Stark wakes up, when he flies with the nuke. Yeah, the Hulk yells. And he's like, what happened? Did we just kiss? So that's a joke at this. Actually, not a lot of stuff noted.

9:34I think there's... Matrix is not even here. This is strange. That is weird. That is strange. Because that is the kiss of life. She basically wakes him up with that. It feels like what we're always having. What about the thing that the Oracle tells him? That, sorry kid, but you're not the one, right? Oh, you're opening up a can of worms right now. No, I'm just like saying. So, he is dead, right? And Trinity tells him that he's the one. But I assume he cannot hear her because he's dead. Because he's dead. So, what happens here? Like, Neo, until the end, he thinks that, you know, he's not the one.

10:15He's just the regular dude. Yeah, I think we all agree on that one, that Neo doesn't think he's the one. Yes. He is like relieved or whatever that he's not the one. He doesn't have this responsibility. I'm relieved that I'm dead. Because I'm dead. So, what does his death actually mean here? Because he wakes up after the kiss, which he couldn't hear Trinity saying that she loves him. And all of a sudden, he's the one. Because I thought like, but by the thing that the Oracle said to him, I mean, he's going to be, it's going to be a journey of him realizing that he's the one in the end. She says a very specific thing that she says, maybe another life, kid, who knows?

11:00And that's what we took as a cue as like, oh, he has to die to become the one, you know? Yeah. Because I think that, you know. Literally, if you take it like that. Yeah. I don't know how we would explain it normally apart from these philosophical, theological. Even there, you're kind of lost because it doesn't have like ground rules. It's not really explained. You could always go in, like, this is a movie. That's the thing though. For me, it's like, I don't really. It happened. Yeah. Like for me, I don't really need so many explanations as long as it has a, some kind of meaning that's not bound by. But, but this is the Matrix Minute.

11:41So, we have to come to some kind of conclusion. You know what I mean? Do we? No, we don't. I think so. I think so. Exactly. I agree with Emma. We don't. But it is a momentous movie and we have to at least make up a theory. Try. Okay. So, you guys take it away. I really have nothing. I have zero theories. I mean, okay. So, he, there's one point, a couple of scenes back when he fights Smith back and we can, you know, put that into Neo become more comfortable and being his rebellious self again and trying it out. Or maybe he's, as when Morpheus works, he's starting to believe. Whatever. But then he runs away, blah, blah, blah. And he gets shot. Now, as Emma said, he,

12:23he might not be dead. And maybe, maybe he is not dead. And he's hearing what Trinity says. Right. And maybe that's the last piece he needed to believe he's the one. Like, he was always on the thing. Like, I'm not the one. But maybe he's in a really weird conscious state that he's like half dead. His brain is not working. So, these sort of words, this absolute words, the Trinity system, this law that she and Moses came from the rocks and said, if I love you, you're the one. Maybe that's what like all of a sudden makes sense to him. It makes sense to her. Makes sense to him. I don't know. Maybe that I'm just making stuff up. Like, this is not connected to any sort of reality.

13:04But I don't know. What do you think, Emma? Do you have like a maybe explanation of why does this triggers, you know, Neo's oneness? No, I just like to trigger the discussion and then listen to people what they think. I have a theory. Okay, go. Wait, wait, wait, wait. What if it doesn't, her kiss doesn't even trigger, what if it's coincidence? Maybe it is. What if Neo was going to get up anyways, but she used that buffer time to... To be amazing. Just sneak a kiss in there. Not just that, but she used that buffer time to convince her. I just kissed you when you were dead. Exactly. And he wasn't dead. He wasn't dead. He was going through his little comatosis or whatever.

13:44And then it's like, it looks like she revived him, but it was actually part of the whole thing after all. That's what it feels like. And I think that's the only real explanation when it comes to talking about the Matrix. It's like in Get Out where, you know, Neo's just stuck inside his little micro universe. Yeah, and she heard him saying like... He's just recovering for a second. Which is kind of sad. Exactly. It makes Trinity like a nobody and nothing, you know? Well, I know, but I'm not... Look. I know, I know. It's a great theory. It's a great theory. It's possible. I'm not happy that Trinity is a nobody. I want Trinity to be like she was in the earlier script. She wants her to be everybody. Exactly. Everybody's Trinity. What if... Let's just agree on this, that this is how things were meant to be.

14:27That's true, but... I like that. That's my favorite. But no one... No... ...likes that. You know, no matter what happens in between, this is what was supposed to happen. I'm gonna go to Google. He wants to die and then come back to prove to everyone that he is the one. Trinity. Yes. And that he is Jesus in the jungle. Why does Trinity's kids revive Neo and the Matrix? Cora. Somebody asked in 2015. Oh, great. Well, Mason. They're like, I wish there was a podcast called The Matrix Minute that would answer all these questions. But it doesn't exist.

15:07They're not a podcaster. The Mission Impossible 3. Huh? That's the scene where Ethan's girlfriend, fiance, punches his chest to get him out of the car. Nice. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I'm glad we got that. So the first theory is very similar to what I was saying. That, you know, he's not actually dead and that in a really weird conscious state, that sort of like, you know, that sort of statement like resonates with him. So you guys talk, well, I'm gonna look at other answers. Okay. Well, I have no other theories. I don't think I might have any theories. I just like that shot. Do you have any theory?

15:48It can be either or. Yes. I like that. That's my favorite. Either or. I think that's the whole theme of The Matrix. You know how like Western culture, particularly American culture, you know, like when it comes to pop culture and, you know, and narrative. There is this like strange need for logical conclusions or logical. And that is true, though. I think that's true. Even if you're looking at like philosophy that comes from that, you know, using reason predominantly to explain life. And the thing is that I think personally that reason is only one element. There's so many other elements and experiences in life. I think that's one thing that sometimes Western audiences miss when watching films is that they

16:29go. They don't want to be swept into the emotional, thematic aspects of the story. Yes. Artistic. Yeah. Expression. Yeah. Expressionistic aspects. Yeah. Because like there's a lot of things, especially in art, you know, there's some things that you cannot explain in art. And that's what makes it art. You cannot describe it. You can't box it in. And once you try to box it in, you're actually doing the opposite and you're missing the point. Exactly. And so that's something that is a very good point. I think that's, in my opinion, that's why I like The Matrix is because The Matrix leaves it very open-ended. People really hate open-ended. And The Matrix, the funny thing is The Matrix isn't even a prime example of such an open-ended or abstract or inconclusive movie in that sense.

17:09It's actually fairly contained, The Matrix. But it has an introduction to these sorts of inexplicable and multiple viewpoint elements that make the movie so... I think that's why it captured people's attention. And it doesn't distract from... No. And you can still watch it in a linear fashion and go, ah, it's a classic Hollywood film. But it's just... They tucked in all these nice little... Nuggets. The chicken nuggets. But I wouldn't understand why someone would get upset because, you know, from the other parts of the movie, everything's so perfectly explained. You know, Morpheus tells you everything. He lays down the ground rules and then you have something that pops up completely unknowingly. But I would tell you, you can hold all of you simultaneously.

17:51That's what I think. I want to tell you what this is. This is the suspension of disbelief that this will always be in my mind. I've learned this way back in... Before film school, Ethan. Okay. This little tidbit they were talking about in Jaws. Is it a nugget? Yeah. And in Jaws, the shark ate all but one of the men on the boat. Boat is sinking. The orca is dying. Well, the orca is the boat. So it's falling over. The shark's coming back for another round. Brody is in the shinking ship. And he holds out a sniper. He has one shot to kill the shark. And the shark's chewing on an air tank, you know, for breathing.

18:34Oh, yeah. A scuba tank. And then he shoots him. Sorry, everybody, for this 40-plus-year-old movie. Yeah. And the shark explodes. And they were, you know, people, the producers and some people who were working on the film were asking, you know, Steven, Steven Spielberg. Back then, just know Steven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This wouldn't work. Yeah, just Steve. Just like, but tanks don't explode like that. You know, air tanks don't explode like this. And then either he said that or someone else, but I assume it's Steven that said that. We're on a first-name basis. He said, people won't know and they will not think about that because they're invested emotionally

19:19in it. Who cares? At that point, it's like, it doesn't matter. You just want New York alive again and you're just happy that he's up and kicking. Yeah. Yes, exactly. But then the Matrix men and guys come and... And they just come in and shittle everything. If we want to go completely the opposite. That's what we do. Completely opposite of what Jake was saying. A man on the internet named Eliukes says, I'm going to paraphrase here. Remember, we were discussing that what does it mean to be the one? And, you know, it's basically to do with the Oracle because she came up with the concept. And being the one is like a tag on a person. Once in a while, someone in the Matrix comes out and he is the one. And if we do believe that the capabilities, that the way that he can manipulate things is dictated by the Matrix itself, then basically it is a rule because it's a program.

20:12So the rule is if woman named Trinity equals, you know, is in love with Neo is true, then turn on, you know, Neo powers. You know, the one powers. So that's what they basically explain. Perfect Excel function. Exactly. So just waiting for that until she confesses the love, then the program is like, oh, there it is. I mean, I don't know how to hear it because the body's in there. It's not connected, but whatever. It doesn't matter. Matrix is like, oh, confirmed. He is the one. Wake him the hell up. And, you know, let's reset the whole damn thing. Wake him up. Wake him up. If it works for you, there you go.

20:53Yeah, if it works for you, if you need explanation, there's your explanation. It's true. I think you're free, you know, you're free to do whatever you want. I have to admit that I'm one of the people that I like to know things. I like to understand them. And that's why I don't like movies that end on, you know. Ambiguously. Yes. Like an open-ended. Yeah. Yeah. So. So, so, so, so you were annoyed at the end of Inception when the little, you know, the little totem kept spinning. Yes, exactly. Exactly. I love that though. I don't like them because they're always a cop-out. I wanted to hear what Emma said.

21:34Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, yeah. Nothing. But there are many movies that just frustrate me just because of this open ending and everything. But, um, but I don't know, like in the, in this movie, I never questioned this, maybe because I was a kid, you know, or. You didn't have a podcast about an hour or about a minute. So, it's harder. But I do understand your point of view, Jake. And some things now, the older I am and some things are, just can't be explained no matter how, how hard you try. And you try to, uh, make some kind of like logic out of it or to understand it.

22:16But in the end, it's just okay to take them in as they are. You're not trying hard enough. And I wanted to also just mention the last thing is that I think there are two different elements to this discussion is that I'm talking more about thematic, um, elements, but I think that there are films that do leave, let's say a cliffhanger to actual logical explanations. I feel like maybe Inception is one of those films where the whole thing at the end wasn't so thematic, so to speak, because it was more like, um, you know, it was more like a tease. I hate open-ended endings just for the sake of, I don't know how to end this. That's what I mean. It's like, oh, is it real or is it not? And I find it funny.

22:57People go like, amazing. Oh, you know what? I don't know. Is it real or not? It's so clever. Isn't Brazil though like that? Brazil is, the ending is bad because Hollywood messed with that movie. What about the original? Guys, there's a new cut though, right? The pressing cut is that it's not real and that it's all inside his head. That's, that's, that's, that's the actual one that it's, that he gets lobotomized at the end. Sorry for spoilers. But I don't, I don't like open-ended endings. I like open-ended, open-ended interpretations of things that happen. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. Like Total Recall? I can't remember freaking Total Recall. What happens at the end? Same thing. The same thing. You don't know if they're. They give these people air.

23:37Oh, and she goes. Oh, okay. And then she goes, uh, uh, is this a dream? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's good because they, I guess, I don't know. No, no, no, no. I think it's clear. I think. Well, it's the same as Inception. Yeah, it is the same. Inception is like last, like fart, like last scene. It's like, oh, but it keeps turning. It blends here. You can take it off. Total Recall, I think. You can take it off. Nothing happens. Total Recall is a little more, we could say, philosophically based. I think it was based on a Philip K. Dick. Yeah, that's. I think the movie and the book, if I would, you compare them, like, I don't think they're that, you know, compatible. They're not, but I'm saying that has maybe different roots, so to speak, than Inception. And like you said, I like what you're saying earlier is that the interpretation, different

24:19interpretations, that's what makes a film interesting and not so much the clever logical twists and stuff where you go, hmm, could it be this or could it be that? It's more like, hey, look, here's an idea. And then you go, how would you take this idea to be? Yeah. Yeah. That's what the Matrix is. Or character motivation or like parts of the story missing or any of that that's like, that actually adds a discussion. I don't think a discussion is, is it real or is it not? And then looking for clues. I mean, that's great. It's like, you know, like a little treasure hunt. It's fun. That you can go to and have fun, but that doesn't like, you know, like a great philosophical question to me. Is it something like a Kubrick or something like that where it's like half of the thing is vague and you're like, I have no idea what this is about.

25:01Exactly. So I'll have to probably make up my own explanation. And that, that's clever. Not, you know, a twist at the end. Yeah. So she kisses him and he goes, and then the music goes, boom, boom. It's wonderful. Major chord comes in. Okay. And then Neil gets up. He, his eyes open, his eyes open. And Morpheus is like, with this round two, he has an extra life. Scott Pilgrim. Yeah. Earns the power of self-respect. Or the power of love. No, it's the power of love. By the way, we watched that movie recently. I liked it more. Yeah. I have to agree. Than before. Definitely. I can't believe all those jokes that I didn't laugh at before. No, I laughed at a lot. And a lot of, a lot of actors who are big now. That's pretty cool.

25:41I did not, like, I forgot Audrey Plaza's in there at all. Really? I, I, I remember everybody. She was big. She was big when it came out. Oddly enough, I remembered everybody. We didn't watch Parks and Rec when that came out, sadly. Oh, I see. We came in late. That makes sense. But yeah, it's just funny. This, I have to say, is, um, I wouldn't say it's one of my favorite. Well, I mean, there's a lot of favorite scenes in the film. The whole movie is my favorite. Aw, Jake, you like the kiss? I love the kiss, yeah. Jacob would kiss his hand every time this would happen in the movie. Exactly. But this, this hallway scene where Neo... Okay, can I ask something? Yes. Is this the shirt that he's wearing?

26:27Yes, yes. Your timing is great because only a few episodes ago, the truth was revealed about the magical shirt. Yes, Emma, this is the shirt. You're looking at it. The tight shirt. Jacob was expecting this. I know what I'm getting Jacob for Christmas next year. Dude, you should get me one. That'd be great. If you want. Just like a super tight one. Yes. And I'll be disappointed again. Like 25. It's so tight, it's too little, like a size S, so you basically, your midriff is showing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like... Yeah. Boy, I like the Matrix. Okay, so... No, this sequence is just... I don't know, like... The bullet deflecting... It, to me, just feels so like Wachowski.

27:08It feels so... The culmination of all these themes we talked about. Mm-hmm. It's the rebirth. It's the, you know, waking up. These are all those ideas that are now finally being materialized. They're coming in, he's shooting, and he just has to say no. He just goes, no. But I love it because it's also very cool. Like, I think this is one of the reasons I think why we like the Matrix is when we watched this scene, we were like, yes! You know, like, this is so cool. Look how cool he is just standing there going, putting his hand out, completely calm, in a zen state. Yeah. It is the two things... And the agents are just... The great thing about this is it does two things. One is the great payoff. I love movies where in the third act, at the end, they take it to the next level.

27:51It is the greatest payoff when you actually get to the level that you, in your head, you imagine. So, you know, now he's dodging and everything, and he just says stop, and the bullets stop. That's perfect. Reminds me of, like, the ending of Witch, or all these movies where it just takes it up a notch. And it works. It works great for movies because an hour and a half of buildup, and you have to have that payoff. The other thing is it basically shoots itself in the leg for any sequels to come because you did jump to shark right now. That's what you did. You cannot step into a reality... Well, he does fly. That's what I mean. You jump to shark for the sake of euphoria. Because it's a perfect payoff, but you cannot start a series with this as the base.

28:39You know, like, where do you go next? What, like, you know, he just stops the reality of time? You know, like, I think that's what the sequels had trouble with as well. Because this moment is where basically... I don't know. I was just, like, talking about that the sequels, you know, kind of screwed because this is the stepping stone you have to get off to. And this is the ultimate, the biggest thing you can have, you know. Well, I just wanted to agree with you in saying that this was basically... I don't even know how to describe it. It's sort of like... You know, it's like... It's not... Breaking the fourth wall is a totally different concept, but I'm saying that it's like breaking down sort of these constructs. Rules, yeah. And it's like shattering them.

29:20But this is what makes the moment so good in the film. It's because you actually see the manifestation of the stuff being shattered. It's like, whoa. Like you said, Tim said, next level. It's like you're going up. It is the... And you're like, what? It's the best thing you can do in this medium, a movie. It's an hour and a half or whatever. Of rules. It was an hour and a half of setting up rules and talking about all these constraints. And you can maybe bend some of it and that's cool. And then here we have the one... Complete overhaul. Yeah. But my question is... Turning it upside down. At this point, did they know that there will be sequels? You know what? They did. They did? I think they did. They keep saying they did, but I believe that they didn't develop them much or at all.

30:02I don't think they... The problem is that this was all done in such unknowingness if this was going to be successful at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think they took all their beans and put it... What is the expression? Put your beans in one pocket? Yeah, you put all your beans in one... Really? Basket? No, put all your fruits in one... No, fruits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not beans. Put all your apples in one basket. You didn't like it. You put all your apples in one basket. And put it in one basket. Put all your apples in beans. I don't know. A jungle. Who knows? In the jungle. But there is a bean one as well, I think. There is a bean one, but I forgot what it is. Like planting your beans in one hole? I don't know. I like apples because I like to think of the fresh apples. No, I think it's apples in a basket. Yeah. Yeah, apples in a basket. So they took all the apples and put it in one basket.

30:43It was eggs. Oh, no. No, shut up, James. Oh, eggs. No. Eggs, yes. It's eggs. Yeah, not apples. Because they can crack. That's right. That's right. That's apples. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. We got it there in the end. We got there in the end. We got there in the end. It's right. That's the one. Yeah. So they took all the eggs to smash them in the basket because, you know what? Maybe this is their biggest chance. And then carefully placed them in the basket. Nice. Tuck them. You know, with little hay. Yeah. Yeah. With some hay. Yeah. And I think the notion, I would probably picture this in my head. It's like, eh, when I get to it, we'll figure it out. Like, we, you know, we can do it. We did this one. We can do the other ones. And if there's only one, it's only one. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. Sequels came and the deadline was like in two years. And you're like, oh.

31:24Can we just, can I just publicly also say something? And that's, I just love, I just so love these ripples on the bullets. I mean, I don't know. Like, remember there was ripples during bullet-time. Right. But these are beautiful. Which are okay, but these are just majestic. And I think this is so, what the style they were going for in the Matrix. And I just love the effect they came up with when it slows down. When the bullets slow down and the ripples disappear. There's one bullet that you can see still slowly rippling on the top left of the screen. Mm-hmm. Let me check it out. And it just looks fantastic. I think it just, I honestly think that bullet is the one. That is the one bullet.

32:05Yeah, it's really good. In the storyboards that, Tani Kunitake, the guy who did all the gouache paintings for this, when he drew Neo, he drew him as an average guy. So he had jeans and sneakers on. In the Matrix, like fighting agents? No, as the one doing this, dodging bullets. So Phil, you're calling us average? Yeah. Because we wear jeans and sneakers. Well, I mean, look, Neo is wearing specialized, you know, clothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For maximum movement without looking silly, so. Yeah. Wait, like he changed his clothes when he turned into one? Like, whoosh. No, no, no, no. Like this entire time, he wore, you know, he didn't wear a civilian clothing.

32:49Like it looks more militarized and, you know, it's meant for movement. Tactical sneakers. Yeah, tactical sneakers. Tactical sneakers. And the music is wonderful. This music is so good. It's a major key. Sing some for us. Give us a tune, Phillip. Okay. You know? That's the next one. It's going to be even better. Yeah. But it's very. The Asians are in shock. I remember watching this. How many people do you think, like we're watching this and going, yeah. Many. Because I remember we watched it with our dad in. Did he go here? Yeah.

33:30Oh, yes, he did. He was like, wow. Really? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's lovely. And our cousin Stan, because he watched this already, he goes, now, you know, he won't, he doesn't have to dodge bullets. Oh. You know? Why did he ruin the viewing? Remember what Morpheus says? You won't have to. Here it is. Yeah. Here it is, guys. Look at this. He's the one. Classic. Yeah. Classic stuff. You know, like when you have older role models like that. Yeah. And they say stuff like that. It sounds like, you know, he's reading it from. Yeah. He's reading it from like a, like a, like an ancient scroll. Are you talking about Tim's brothers? Yeah. Yeah. We talk about that. Was he on the podcast ever? Yes, he was. He was the first guest.

34:10Oh, okay. Yep. So he was the first guest and you were the last. That's great. Start with family, end with family. Yeah. Perfect. And with family. It started with, you know. With Nonya and the Matrix. And then, you know, and with you and the Matrix. I don't love to. It's lovely. I like this. I like this too. It's nice. We're bringing it back home. Yes. You see, you do believe in love. That's true. Love will wake me up for my death. So if I, if I'm dying with full of bullet holes, just, just say, I love you. The Oracle told me. Do you like how the. Don't forget the last phrase. Now get up. Yeah. That's the one. Otherwise you won't get up. Do you like how the agents all synchronized and lowering their gun?

34:52It's, it's funny that, you know, brings back to Smith and just a little clone. He's lost his, his uniqueness. He's just another, another agent now. Until the next minute. That's true. But hey, since we already went through, what else do you want to say about this minute? We can talk about more being the one later, but, um, uh, there's one more thing I can do and we can just go into 1996 town. Play the song. Ah, nice. Emma, did you like that song? Yeah. I think it was great. It was wonderful. Such a good song. I know. Johnny. Jake. No, Johnny. Johnny. Oh, did Johnny come back?

35:33God damn it. Well, Johnny, he like pretty much only knows how to play the jingle. That's true. That is true. Because remember he tried to play the organ. Ah, that didn't work. So, so good. Yeah. But, but the intro he's good at. Yeah. Johnny. Hitting that tape button. Just like. Johnny. Okay. Anyway. All right. So welcome back to the 1996 Matrix script. Uh, it's been a while, but, uh, you know, three episodes. No, no, I think it was just about an episode ago that we were talking about the script. And here we are again with Emma. And since Emma doesn't listen to our podcast, she doesn't know what's going on. But, uh, what we do is we go through the 1996 draft, which was quite early on. Well, not too early, but fairly early.

36:13There's a lot of changes. And, um, uh, here is what happens in this particular sequence. So, uh, most of it is kind of the same. Uh, but there's some interesting, um, lines that Trinity says that are a little different. So, we can, we can see what goes on there. So, interior hovercraft. Interior hovercraft. Through the lasered opening, Morpheus screams. Blasting away at the machines. Comet wads of plasma burning holes in their armored housing. What do you think of that? Wait, wait, wait. Morpheus is just like shouting at the machines. Get out! Yeah, no, he's angry. He's going suicide mode.

36:54Oh. He's going kamikaze. Oh, I was more imagining him like a little girl. Ah! Oh, is this just like, no, leave me alone. This is when Neo's dead. Go on, go on. Trinity collapses onto Neo's body. And she goes, no, no, no, no, Neo! You're not dead! You can't be dead! And then, interior hall, Matrix day. Kneeling beside him, Agent Brown checks his vital signs. He's gone. Agent Smith smiles, standing over him. I told you, you couldn't win. Remember because he said before, like, I already won. Interior hovercraft. Tank is hit. A laser bolt knocking him to the ground.

37:34They can't hold them off any longer. Morpheus lunges for the self-destruct. Look at him. Already back to suicide. As Trinity whispers in Neo's ear. Great faith. As Trinity whispers in Neo's ear. In Neo's ear, burn them all. You're right here. I'm holding you, Neo. I'm not letting you go. You hear me? I won't let you go. Interior hall, Matrix day. I won't let you go. Yeah, the agents walk to the elevator, leaving Neo's body behind. Interior hovercraft. Morpheus flicks the plexiglass shield of the self-destruct. Look at him. He's about to press the button. I can't believe it. And then Trinity goes, goddammit, Neo! Don't give up!

38:14Not now! That's not bad. She pounds on his chest. Hey! There we go. Not now! No! Breaks his ribs. Yeah. Yeah, so... Not now! In an interior hotel hall, Matrix day, the blow echoes deep in his mind. His eyes snap open. And then interior hovercraft. Trinity screams as the monitors jump back to life. I guess screaming is a good option right there. Yeah. Tank and Morpheus stare, unbelieving. It is a miracle. And Trinity goes, now get up! And there we go. Neo struggles holding his chest, sitting up. Down the hall, he sees an elevator closing, and Agent Smith staring at him as if he were looking at a cipher. Neo gives him the finger.

38:56Wow! No way! I am loving this. And then Agent Smith goes, no! Two fingers then. And Agent Smith pounds on the elevator door, because he's in the elevator. This is perfect. And we'll talk about this next time. Oh, that was brilliant. Okay, so basically, before we get to the finger, let's not forget that it's exactly what we talked about that we would have liked. That it's not like, I'm gonna wake up. It's more like, stop it, Neo. Get a hold of yourself. Yeah, it's a... I do like it, because it sounds at least more realistic how you would react in a life-threatening situation. And knowing that someone you loved died.

39:39And they're not supposed to die, because they're the one. Yeah. So, I think I would be shocked, angry, confused, everything at the same time. Suicidal is Morpheus's. I'm just trying to... Morpheus. Yeah, that's true. So... And Neo gets up. And shows him the finger for the last time. That's amazing. I think that, you know what? Like, I can just totally see the Wachowski, like, writing that together. And then he's thinking, like, dude, this is so cool, man. Yeah. I know. I mean, we... He's just like, finger. Just licks it. Here's my phone call. Here's my phone call. I mean, the funny thing is, that is cool. Don't ever get it.

40:20Wait, wait. You know, because the phone is ringing. He's like, don't ever stand between me and my phone call again. Wow. That's cheesy. Wow. That's super cheese. But, um, what I wanted to say is that, uh... I forgot. That's the Maytrees. Yeah, I see. That didn't land. But, no, okay. I remember what I wanted to say is that we all know that it feels very Hollywood, the whole kiss of life. So maybe you might have been a producer, executive producer, Hollywood people going like, this is all great. The chest pounding and bursting of the ribs. But could it be more about love?

41:01We're trying to put hope into people's hearts. Like, the more I think about it, the more it seems like she's too calm. Like, and emotionless. It makes you look cool. I guess. It makes you look cool. Obviously, everyone's, like, all rigid in Matrix. But, you know, on the other hand, it's just... But, Emma, I think it's like we talked about earlier is that what Tim was saying, I think. Was it, Tim? Saying that, like, Trinity, you know, she's, like, the person of faith here. Where she's, like, she's very confident in her opinion slash belief in Neo. And therefore, that's why she's calm. Because she's not desperate. She's, like, you know, like... She understands it now. Yeah. Like, this will turn out okay and stuff like that. I'm just going to stay on my ground.

41:42Whereas maybe in the earlier draft, she's more, you know, more normal. Yeah. More jumpy and more, like, reactive emotionally. Which would probably be more realistic. I guess, Jake. I guess you're right. Yeah. And there we are. We're here. There we are. Bum, ba-da. So, at the end, we usually let the guest plug anything they want to plug. Yeah. So, what do you want to plug? It's, like, an advertised website. Yourself. Self. Anything you've done, you want people to go check out. Or maybe you could tell us, like, something amazing that you want people to know about yourself. Want people to follow you on Instagram? Instagram? No.

42:24My Instagram is not that interesting. That's pretty interesting. I don't know. I can't. Or maybe plug someone else to something, like you want to mention. I do love my Apple Watch. I've been using it for... There you go. It's perfect. I've been using it for two months now, and I absolutely love it. Perfect. Yeah. Can I ask you, what do you most use it for? Or? I use it for, like, I have it on every day, all the time. So, it's your watch, basically. So, basically tracking, like, my activities and everything. Like, you know, like, steps and stuff like that. My calories. But I love it for exercising.

43:06Anything, really. At the gym, I go once a week for jumping. So, it's, like, for heat. Amazing. For running. Amazing. And I'm planning to try it out for swimming as well. Does it work for swimming? Yeah. It's an underwater machine. Wow. It's an underwater machine, suddenly. Yeah, that's cool. That's awesome. Because, wait, wait. Emma was there talking to us while Tim was in the bathroom. I don't know where he went. But Tim was gone. Yeah, Tim, you were gone for, like, maybe three minutes. And Emma was there with us on the Matrix Minute, you know, hijacking. That is true. That is true. And she was talking about her watch, but it wasn't an Apple Watch. No, no, no. No, it was actually a year ago I got a Garmin watch from Tim.

43:51Yes, yes. That's the one you were talking about. That's the fake one. Yeah, Garmin 435. Faker. Yeah. It's not a faker. Garmin is still a good running watch. We're joking. We're being silly. We're gooses. Yeah, we're being stupid Apple fanboys. Yeah. But before I let you go, do you have a movie suggestion to the peeps? A movie you watched recently that you liked. Or a book. Well, except the one we watched, all of us together, 27 Dresses. I know you love these guys. Oh, my God. Wait, wait, wait. Let me remember the title. It's 31 Dresses?

44:32No, it's 27, I think. I think, yeah. Whatever. 27. Oh, that was dreadful. But the 27 Dresses doesn't hold a candle to... Oh, no. Come on, guys. What was it called? That one on Netflix. Merry Kissmas! Merry Kissmas. Oh, yes! But Merry Kissmas. But no, what's the... Did we watch Merry Kissmas? Yes, yes, yes. When you were here for Christmas. Oh, we watched that the whole thing. We started with the dresses, but then I was like, we realized that woman has no fashion dress. And then, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. No, no, no, no. No, no. We watched 27 Dresses. That was like two years ago or something. We watched the whole movie. Oh, yes. But then last Christmas, we watched that movie.

45:13Emma, what was it called again? Merry Kissmas. Merry Kissmas. And before that, you watched Gilmore Girls with me. That's true. That was fun. Yeah. They talk so fast. We also tried watching some movies called like Kisseltel or something. That's the one. Oh, yes. That's the one where she had the bad, like, she's supposed to be a fashionista, but she dressed like... We skipped that, right? Yeah, we gave up on that one. We gave up. Awesome. But those are not my recommendations. Do you have one or... Let me think. What did we watch lately? Like cinema? I watched a bunch of Oscar movies. I don't know if you want to recommend any of those. Do you watch any of those with me? We still have to do that podcast. We've been talking all the time. That's true. That's true. Yeah.

45:53No. We'll do it next year. Yeah, that was funny. I don't know. I don't know. That's okay. It's okay. Oh, yeah. Watch a TV show called The Good Place. You'll recommend that, right? Oh, yes. Yes. It's on Netflix. I hated it at first. At first, but because it's a bit cringy at the moment, but it's good. I do recommend it. It's funny. It's funny stuff. I think that sounds good. I think you'll like it, Jake, a lot because it deals with philosophy and morality. And tall people. And it has very dry, cringy humor. So I think you'll be just at home.

46:34Sounds like, yeah. All right. Yeah. Just rubbing jelly on yourself. Oil. Oil. Like the Marines. Like agent. Yeah. The Marines. They came. Yeah. They joined. They were having. All right, guys. Yeah. Let's let me just set Emma free. Well, thank you so much, Emma, for being on our podcast, especially on this late time. Yeah. You're welcome. And special thanks to the person who will never in their life listen to this. But thank you, Pista, for supplying the microphone so we can have this. Oh, yeah, Pista. That is true. Shout out to Pista. Yeah. He's really popular on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. You'll never listen to this so you can say whatever the hell you want right now.

47:15We never plugged him. And people don't know who this is. Pista right now, I think he's focused on his solo project. Yeah. Which is called Fulcrum, but instead of U's, you put in V's. Clever man. Like the witch, but without a double. So if you're into electronic music, go look him up. He's on Spotify. Fulcrum with V's. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So, yeah. Thank you, Emma. And yeah, thank you, Emma, again. It was actually, whew, this is great. This was good. This was better than good. And I hope that we'll get to hang out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In real life. Cabin in the Woods, coming soon.

47:56Thank you guys. And thanks for having me here. And good luck with the rest of your minutes. Oh, we're almost done. There's no luck needed anymore. We survived all this shit. Well, Tim, don't speak too soon. That's true. That is true. One of us might die. Don't speak too soon. We don't know what will happen in the next week. Yeah. So let's just. Let's just relax. Keep a low profile until we complete it. And then we can say. Yeah, then we can boast. So let us accept Emma's good luck. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll all celebrate the finishment. That's not a word of this podcast. I like it. That's good. Finishment. That's true. I'll bring this out. That's true. Champagne. And we can go all. Maha. Champagne.

48:36Is it a French? Yeah, there you go. Maha. French. We can all go. Okay, guys. Emma, Emma. You can do the. We try to be the last one who does. As the end. So I think you have the. You can do the honorary. What? You have to do the sound of. You have to make a cool sound. That's how we end usually. No, you can do that too. Or like. It basically goes really quiet. And then it's loud. Yeah. I usually go like. We'll see you next week. Okay. Okay, ready? Okay.