Minute 71: “Instead only try to realize the truth.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00Welcome again to the Matrix Minute. This is Minute 71, and I am Phil. I am here. I am Jake. I as well am here. And I am Tim, and I am here in spirit, and soul, and mind, and body. Very good. We are all mentally present. Yes, as everyone is in the Matrix. Let's get started and make up for our banter in the last two episodes and go straight into the minute. Alright, are you ready for it, everybody? Welcome to the Friday of your mind. Tell us what we can learn on the Friday of your mind. There's no lollygagging. As Neo waits in the room with the potentials, he sees them do odd things, but notices the monk child with spoons that bend.

0:44He bends a spoon in front of Neo and gives him the spoon he just bent that is unbent. He tells Neo, Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try and realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you will see that it is not the spoon that bends. It is only yourself. And that is the minute 71. Spoon boy and his crazy spoon antics. Let's go. Spoon bending time! Spoon time! You see, I'm using my mind to bend the spoon. Talk about that. I have license to talk about that.

1:25Look, look, look. It's moving. Look, look. Okay, ready? Many episodes ago, I had a trivia, a bit of trivia about this actor and I was shushed. So now it's Phil's golden chance to talk all about this kid and how he got the role and everything. Take it away, Phil. Oh, me? I thought you wanted to do that. Let the unshushing begin. No, I had my opportunity that I was shushed and I came in very excited to give this trivia and I was shushed and it's over now. All right, well, the kid is played by Roan Witt and his mom didn't want him to shave his head. There's more to it. Then you do it! That's it. That's the story. I thought there's more details. I mean, I read a two. Wait, what? What did you say? He didn't want to shave his head? What? His mom didn't want him to shave his head because he had really fancy hobbit hair, you know?

2:09Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Lucky fancy stuff because that's what he had to get, you know, that's why he got all his commercials. Really? See, there's more to the story. And his mom was just not wanting him to shave his head to be this little bald kid. But they made him. So did they pay him extra? That's a good question. Do you know what's weird? How did they get him the bald? So when you're a kid, right, do they pay you as the kid and then you can only get it? Or do they pay your parents? Until you're 18, the money goes to the parents. It doesn't go into like some kind of fund that's waiting for you? That's up to your parents. Oh, yeah. Good point. Because they have their guardians. Yeah. They have their guardians. The trivia section. Hold on. I mean, it depends. If you get a job and you're like 16 or 17, you know, run away from home.

2:51That's different. You set it up for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Then. But if you're like a kid, maybe on your show and you're like started eight. Yeah. Then up until the 18 until unless you negotiate a deal. Well, I mean, a special one. We're friends with Elijah Wood. We can. I'm just kidding. Yeah. Let me call Elijah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. That would be the parents. Obviously choice. I have him as the other Hobbit in here. He's what? What was he playing? The other Hobbit. Who's still with Sam as the main Hobbit? No, just one of the Hobbits. Oh, there's too many Hobbits in that movie. Sam's the Hebrew. The Hebrew? Hebrews. Samuel is a Hebrew. I'm waiting until Art of the Matrix loads. Okay. Well, we can talk about other stuff while Philip's iPad is loading his material.

3:31What did you want to say? Well, the truth about the Bolt kit. Anyway, let's talk about Mr. Spoonbending. The truth. Because there's been lots of fake rumors about the Bolt. Yeah. So we were just talking about earlier how... No, no. Spoonbending, man. Come on. Yeah. Spoonbending. We had a whole podcast about this. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Yes. Yeah. So we have another podcast that we do, which is just... Phil and Jake in Conversation. You can go there. What's it called? Notpodcast.com. No. Notpodcast.phildragish.com. That's true. Notpodcast.phildragish.com. That's true. If you can find that podcast, that's another podcast we do or did. But we're still going to do it eventually. Yeah. There's going to be one more this year. At least one more.

4:12At least one. We're milking it at this point. Yeah. But the point is that we had an episode where me and Tim, Phil wasn't there. And we just talked about spoonbending because we find it so funny and fascinating. Yeah. And we, you know, dedicated like 10 minutes or 15 minutes, which is pretty long in a podcast, to talk about Yuri Geller and his amazing spoonbending capabilities. And it's just amazing. Look, look. I'm bending it now. You can see. Use the power of your mind. Use it. Look. Oh, oh, it's loosening up. I can feel it. I can feel it. Yes, I can feel it. Oh, oh. And there it goes. Yeah. Broken. Broken spoon. As someone who doesn't believe in anything supernatural, I love looking up at these charlatans,

4:55these tricksters that, you know, try to kind of like do these tricks and present them as... Con men. Well, they're, what do they call it? Yeah, yeah. They're con men. They do like, they figure out a trick and present it. And what was this, what was this guy's name? The spoonbending. Yuri Geller. Yuri Geller. And then they got him on TV. The charlatan. There's also great, there's a guy called James Randi, who is a skeptic. Like, and he goes and basically his, it's kind of weird, but I mean, it makes sense. Like, his interest was outing a lot of these people who were charlatans. Yeah. Just to shit all the charlatans out. But that's good because I think that it's horrible when you go and trick people. It's one thing to go and be an entertainer. And let's say, for instance, like, who Penn and Teller, I guess, is a good example.

5:36Oh, like a classic... Magician. That's not a magician. What is it? Yeah, what? A conjurer of cheap tricks. This is the one. Oh, yeah. What is the other word? I guess it would be... There is another word for it. It's not the magician. Magician is kind of archaic. Yeah, but what? I like magician. It's great. Showman. Is it a magician? Entertainer. Magician. Contortionist? No. Wizard. No. Sorcerer. I can't believe it. Sorcerer. The dragon will arrive. Wait, what is it called? Illusionist. There we go. Illusionist. What? That's new? The illusionist? I think that makes sense because basically what you're doing is you're creating an illusion and you're up front and you're saying, what I'm about to do is not, obviously not supernatural,

6:19but it's going to create the effect. I mean, you don't go stand up. This is not real. No, no, no, no. I know, but people know. It's presented that way, but everyone knows it's an illusion, but you're just like, your mind can't comprehend it. Yeah. But it's not like, I have powers from gods themselves. No. Just bend these spoons. That's what I'm saying. Illusionist is a different story. You mean like the televangelists? Exactly. Illusionist makes sense, but the opposite is people like Uri Geller who, they just, they don't want to admit that what they're doing is conjuring. And then they have these special circumstances when they do this special spoon bending, which is what we find out in the end is kind of, it's pre-bend, like pre, like the spoons

6:59are really like... Yeah, I think basically they're weakened at that point and it's the same stuff always. I think he rubs them sort of in a weird way, but actually what he's doing, he's slowly putting pressure on them. So when they're weakened, they kind of bend, but it looks like he's doing something special. There's always like, these are basically old tricks that they... Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. They add the story. Spoon bending, like an old, old trick that like just Uri kind of found. It was like, oh, I can make money on TV. But I just, I just find it fascinating because it's like, if you watch the videos, it's just amazing. Cause he's like, he's so into it, you know, like, look, look, the metal is slowly. The metal is slow. It's not, it's not hot, it's not hot. But the metal is slowly giving way to my will.

7:41Giving way to my will. Yeah. And also Uri Geller inspired Kadabra and Alakazam. No way. From the Pokemon series and Uri Geller was in a lawsuit and tried to sue Game Freak. See, that's, that's what makes me just furious. Like I hate that stuff. Because of the imagery. Because, you know, Kadabra and Alakazam. My signature spoons. Kadabra and Alakazam, they, you know, bend spoons, obviously. Because obviously he's the only one. It's the Uri Geller effect. And this is definitely, the Matrix here has a prime reference to Uri Geller and his spoon bending. But isn't spoon bending... Did you notice that right over there there's a bunch of spoons on the shelf? See, that's the thing. I wondered about the spoon bending thing. Is that something to do, did he make it famous, the spoon bending?

8:24Yeah. Or was spoon bending a thing before or no? According to Wikipedia, spoon bending was part of the classic illusionist, you know, kind of trick. Yeah, like repertoire. Repertoire. But Uri made it... Famous. Famous. Because I think in the 70s and 60s, you know, because of the sort of revolution, the spiritual revolution of like, you know, like, you know, in America that kind of was mainly Christian, you know, kind of all this... Yeah. ...spiritual and like, oh, you know, all of us and all the hippie culture. Yeah, I didn't say hippie culture. He kind of used that and like, oh, spirits, you know. Well, I think also because people, I think at that time were also opening up to like new ideas, but that also... Yes. ...meant, you know, crazy sort of out there ideas.

9:05Yeah, because, you know, you were looking for validation for your beliefs and if a guy on TV, you know, dressed like you is just, you know, showing, oh, you know, validating your belief, then you're obviously going to, you know... Exactly. ...leaning towards that and not... So, and I like that guy, you were spanking, you know, spanking. I wasn't spanking anybody. Yeah, I was not. ...who went out their way to show up. These allegations are false. Because in the end, what it was, it was like, you know, they put him in a control environment where they gave them own spoons and they weren't good enough. Because that's the thing, it's the same thing like sidekicks and all that stuff. It's like... Sidekicks? I heard sonny cakes. More cakes. There's this cake podcast. It's just, it's not, it's not fun.

9:49Anyway, back to the minute. Neo is looking at a bunch of kids. And if you want to still talk about Spoonboy... Yeah, we're done. Spoonboy's done. I just wanted to say, according to Phil Osterhaus, he says that Rowan Witt, who played the Spoonboy, he also appears in Dark City. And he's also bald in that one. So when it came time to do The Matrix, his hair grew back. And then... Oh. So he had these long, curly hobbit hair. And his mother loved it so much that when he was cast, and it got closer and closer to shooting, she tried convincing, you know, Lana and Lily to that maybe, you know, the Spoonboy

10:29didn't need to be bald. He didn't have to be bald. Or we could do this. The best solution would be to cut. Dress him up as a hobbit. He's bald in one shot. Cut to Neo, cut back. He has long hair. Then cut back to Neo, cut back bald. So he's not a Spoonboy, he's a hair grower. And so she's trying to, you know, convince them that, you know, it doesn't have to be bald. But eventually, she was convinced. And then the weirdest thing was that on the day his head was shaved, his mom actually saved his hair in a plastic bag. That's weird. And Rowan was carrying it around the set when they were filming this. That's kind of weird. That's so sad. But yeah. It's like a dead pet that's got stuffed and you carry it around. Fluffy still lives. Yeah, and in the end, Phil Osterhaus just says that as a testament of how long it took

11:13to complete this film, they got to see Rowan and his parents again during post-production and he already had hair. See? See, hair grows back quicker than eyebrows. But anyway, yeah, Rowan with... Neo shaved his eyebrows and it took years to regrow. He still is missing something. If you look at him, no, no, that's not making up. But it does take a lot longer for the eyebrows to grow then. Yeah, I would not want my eyebrows shaved. I feel sorry for... Phil Osterhaus. No, I feel sorry for... Spoon Boy. Who played Wormtongue? Brad Dourif. Oh. I feel sorry for Brad Dourif and his...

11:54Eyebrow. Every time they did reshoots. Again. But yeah, Rowan with... He should have Henry Cavill with, you know. You know, on Instagram, he's pretty... He's quite popular because he's a cast member for the Australian production of Book of Mormon. And he does theater and singing and stuff like that. Oh. He's... He's a big boy now. Yeah, he's... I think he's a year older than me. Oh, really? Yeah. Magical. Magical. So, uh... Two things... Or you're younger. I can't... I can't remember. Would you shave your hair to be in a movie? Yes. When you were eight? Tins of eight? Well, I'm right. Immediately. Yeah. I don't care. I don't care about hair. Let's talk about... Well, you had like a bowl cup when you were eight.

12:35Let's talk about these kids in here. It was magical. The kids... The kids... The kids are magical. But let's linger a bit about Spoonboy here. There's two things. What can we talk about... Yeah, go ahead. Just to finish up with Spoonboy. One thing is... Jacob. Our local philosopher. Philosophy man. Man of the philosopher. What does he mean? It's not the spoon that bends. It's you that bends. That is my question as well. Okay, you want to know? I never knew. You want to know? And I would like to know... What I'd like to know? I would like to know because it's something that's always baffled me. And I'm sure there's a deeper meaning to this. So what are you confused about? I'm guessing my... What is the clue?

13:15It's not helping. What, you bend like this? I would imagine that it has something to do with... Basically, it's the idea, I guess, of how you perceive the world. The world and the human experience. Okay. And essentially that... It's the idea of enlightenment. It's the idea of... It's a Zen Buddhist thing. There you go. And I could tell you that it's based on a Zen Buddhist parable about three monks. They're watching a flag waving in the wind. And one monk makes an observation about how the flag moves. And then the second month... And then the second monk says, it's like, it's not really the flag, but it's the wind that's moving. And, you know, the third one shows up and then criticizes both of them by saying that it's neither the flag nor the wind that moves.

13:58It's really the mind that moves. The message is that the world is an illusion, or as you would say, maya. In order to escape from this illusion, people must free their minds because it's their minds that interpret and define what is real for them. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. So a similar example is found in The Matrix, which we're talking about right now. Because I think this is a very... There's a lot of deep stuff in that. And it's definitely not easy to unpack quickly because you have to really read the material. But the idea here is... But the idea is... The idea is, you know, subjectivity, right? That the world that you see is only what you can perceive in your mind.

14:39Choose to see is what I think. So the flag isn't really moving in reality because you can't see that. You can only see the image in your head. So the flag is moving in your head. Subject to your experience. Now, that's great and all, but that doesn't really help with the spoon bending because that means the bending... The spoon is not actually bending. Yeah, but in The Matrix it is. Because you're using your mind power to override The Matrix. Yeah, but... Okay, but that's like... Then just say, just use your mind to bend the spoon. Because what he's saying, the spoon is not bending. The boon is bending. Well, isn't this a whole blend... Isn't this, again, a whole blend of the philosophical ideas and the narrative plot?

15:22Ploy. Because we have both the path of the one, and we're talking about Neo and this whole story we have here, but at the same time we're talking about these big ideas, like we talked about Zen Buddhism and things like that. So it's sort of like a little combo going on. Yeah, I think it's like a little flavor. It's not actually, you know... Yeah. But everyone loves it. You don't think too much of the logic of the spoon bending in The Matrix. Because we noticed that when we watched the Philosopher's Commentary, at least I picked up, was there wasn't too much of a connection between all these ideas in the film. It was more like the ideas are pointing to other... Or pointing to the famous ideas and notions that you would then go and read about and things like that.

16:04So like you said, a flavor. Yeah. Just like, here's some ideas sprinkled that in this world, they're kind of like starting points, you know, like spiritual interests. And the funny thing is they're all separate ideas. Like you can't combine them all into a mega idea. These are all separate. And a lot of them independent ideas in The Matrix. And they're all just alluding to different ways of thought. Yeah, I guess it's like that sort of like, oh, you know, any sort of these paths will kind of lead you to some enlightenment because they're all kind of connected. I guess. You could look at it that way. But I'm saying it's also open to look at them as separate ideas. That's what I, again, I like about The Matrix. They just present a lot of this stuff.

16:44It's like a smorgasbord. Great word to use. Smorgasbord. Of ideas. It's a jelly belly combo pack. Ooh, smorgasbord. Let's talk about stuff that happens before the Spoon Boy talks. My theory is correct that the potentials have some supernatural powers. Yeah, look at their little psychic powers. Look at these two girls hovering those little blocks. Yes, but still, potentials to what? Ben's spoons? Who cares? She's harboring ones. She's harboring a bunch of ones. Don't kill their dreams. No, I wanted to. She doesn't care about anything except the one. First of all, I wanted to mention. The Oracle loves people. First of all, I wanted to mention that these blocks, this effect was done practically. It's just strings. It's beautiful. I thought it was CG. Yeah. You can see some of it wobbles, so it's like stringy.

17:27Nice cup holder, Tim. Beautiful. My white wine skin. And so I wanted to put this question on. Are these kids that have been. Yes, go on. Are these kids that have been taken out of the Matrix? And these are from different ships? No. Or they're just in the Matrix? These are Matrix potentials. I think anything, the Oracle is completely isolated. Okay. It's just within the Matrix. And sure, you could be potentials to be implodged. Maybe some of these potentials might be, if you're counting the sequels, artificial intelligence. Well, that's what I wanted to say before, was potentially some of these could be programs.

18:10Who knows? Like that one kid reading that book at the beginning, the Wu-Tang Clan book. So do you think this is Oracle? She's a program. Yeah. And she's the author of the AI with the Architect, right? They're the ones who created the Matrix, right? I don't think she's the author. I think she... Who didn't create the Matrix? No, she did because she had to create the different versions of the Matrix. She had to help. Because her primary function is understanding human behavior. Okay. So the Architect does the... The physical stuff. Like as a traditional male, you know, like the Arch... He's the working dad. He's the human soul part. And the stay-at-home mom tends to the children. Yeah, yeah. The people in the Matrix. Patriarchical. So, um... Well, not really because both of them are different sides of the same...

18:52Oh, true, true, true. ...simulation. So they could be like... They wrote these little small AIs that can... Yeah. You know. Like Sati, you know? From the revolutions. We're not going to talk about. Sorry about that. Anyway. We can mention... We can mention the... Anyway, behind them on the TV, there's a... It's a movie called Night of the Lepus. So this is the black and white television... Yes. ...presenting these giant rabbits running down the street. Yeah, and that's exactly what the movie is. It's a stupid Warner Brothers movie. Cheap B-horror movie. Yeah. Giant killer rabbits killing people. Any specific reason why this was put on the background on the TV? Because white rabbit, I guess. Rabbits. Alice in Wonderland. Ah, that is true. You could have put an old public domain Alice in Wonderland.

19:34Right. So my theory is correct. Shielded accurate theory. Theory confirmed. Okay. There's this kid reading a book, and then there's that creepy girl with blue eyes. And those are the potentials. Neo is curious, and he goes and talks to this little Buddhist kid. You want to go to the Matrix script section now? Yeah, I think we covered all this stuff now. Let's go to the Matrix. Yeah, after a week of teasing. The juice is here. The juice is on? On what? Cue the theme song! Oh! Okay, that's good. Thanks. Thanks, Tim. Wow.

20:16Okay, so anyway, before we go to the 1996 draft, we're going to the 1998 shooting script. Wow. Which has some interesting, interesting thing. Okay. Let us know. Here we go. So, you'll find this familiar. And she's never wrong? Don't think of it as in terms of right and wrong. She is a guide, Neo. She can help you find the path. She helped you? Yes. What did she tell you? That I would find the one. Ding! The elevator opens. Interior hall. The long dark hall beckons. Neo follows Morpheus out of the elevator and the doors rattle. Shut. Behind him. With every step, a disturbing sense of inevitability closes around him.

20:57At the end of the hall, Morpheus steps to the side of the door. Now, you remember this? This is classic. I told you that I can only show you the door. You have to step through it. And then, Neo blows out a breath. His hand reaches, but stops. Hovering over the spherical handle. He backs away. Morpheus, I don't think this is a good idea. Why? I told you I don't believe in this stuff. No matter what she says, I'm not going to believe it. So, what's the point? Okay. What do you believe in? Spoon bending. What do I believe in? Are you kidding me? What do you think? The world that I grew up in isn't real.

21:38My entire life was a lie. I don't believe in anything anymore. That's why we're here. Why? So I can hear some old lady tell me what? That I'm this guy that everyone's been waiting for? That I'm supposed to save the world? It sounds insane. Unbelievable. And I don't care who says it. I forgot to him. It's still going to sound insane and unbelievable. Faith is not a matter of reasonability. I do not believe things with my mind. I believe them with my heart. In my gut. And you believe I'm the one? Yes, I do. Yeah? What about the other five guys?

22:19The five before me? What about them? He knows. Morpheus tries to hide his heart being wrenched from his chest. And he goes, Do you believe them too? I believe what the oracle told me. Oh, blame game. I understood. Yep. I understood what she told me. I believed that it was all about me. This is difficult for Morpheus to admit. I believe that all I had to do was point my finger and anoint whoever I chose. I was wrong, Neo. Five times? Terribly wrong. Not a day or night passes that I do not think of them. After the fifth, I lost my way.

23:03I doubted everything. You think after the fifth? Yeah. Yeah. Took him five tries. Wow. I doubted myself. And he looks up at Neo. And then Morpheus keeps going. And then I saw you, Neo. And my world changed. You can call it an epiphany. You can call it whatever the hell you want. It doesn't matter. It's not about a word. It's about this. All I can do is believe, Neo. I feel what I felt and know what I know. You are the sixth and the last. You are the one. His eyes blaze. And Morpheus, until that time, all I am asking from you is for you to hold on to whatever respect you may have for me.

23:47And trust me, Neo feels a rush from Morpheus' intensity. The unadulterated confidence of a zealot. All right. And he reaches for the handle, which turns without him even touching it. A woman with a wearing white robe, wearing white, opens the door. Hello, Neo. You're right on time. Boom! Wow. Wow. Boom! I don't think it was dramatic enough for Morpheus. No, no, no. It's good. It was dramatic. No, it was. We went into it. And this is from the 1998 script. So they. So this was changed last minute. Yeah, so I feel like they might have even filmed this. Dude, can you imagine if that was shot?

24:27But I think they took out the entire, like, five-word ones. Well, the thing is, like we talked about before, like, I mean, you know, this complicates things so much. But it's great that Neo has a little bit of character to him. At a first glance, yeah. Yeah, that's true. At a first glance, it complicates things if you're trying to tell a story. Yeah, like we talked about that. But the thing is that so many people question this is that it is logical. It is there. And there's a reason you think about that, you know, like, who is the one who were there before. So it is only natural. And I'm glad. You know, honestly, I think it would have helped a lot if they didn't do five, just do one. That would have been good. You know, for instance.

25:07No, no, no, no. No, the Morpheus. No, no, no. No? No, why? What? Because, because I like it. Because it's, you know, makes Morpheus a bad guy. I like it. I know you like that. But I'm saying, like, if we're talking about a narrative. Oh, for the. Let's take the Matrix. Let's say if we, if they kept that in. And if they had only one guy. Poor Eddie. He died once. Obviously. Mm-hmm. And he was the only one that he failed with. Then I feel like there would be a lot more. It'd be easier to empathize. Or not empathize. Empathize. Sympathize. For Morpheus. And he's like, okay. Like this. The leap of faith would make a little more sense, I think. Neo didn't. Like, Morpheus didn't even explain what made Neo different still.

25:49Yeah. It's just, I believed. I believed. No, I think it's like, I don't think a middle road is good for this. I think it either, like, went with, you know, in the movie like this. Or you have to go with five guys. Because then it makes a point. Five guys. I went to five guys once. Five guys, yeah. You know, like, it is fate. Like, he has no proof whatsoever. He's just going by his feeling and by his gut. Yeah. And he's trying this. And he just like, it's like, oh, I keep feeling it. So I keep going at it, you know. And it's like, I have absolutely no proof for you. For you, Neo, except this old woman. Yeah, that's true. And the spoon bender. Well, it's interesting. That's a good point. Talk about what you're saying with Neo's character and stuff. It just gives him a little bit more character. Like, he's not just a vessel asking questions.

26:32Just a parakeet. Yeah. He has an opinion. Yeah. And then there's the 1996 script. Okay, so let's be really in the back. Okay, let's go there. Okay, so there's none of that. No, I'm not going in. You know, that thing. That's not in this script. But after they, you know, leave through the basement and Morpheus puts in his access codes and then they go into the room. And then there's the door. He opens the door after he enters the access codes. And then he goes into the Temple of Zion. The walls and floors are polished marble. Neo follows his mouth agape. What?

27:13What happened? This is the temple. It's part of Zion's mainframe. It's hidden inside the matrix so we can access it. The Zion mainframe. The access code. The access code. It is. I was saying that. The access code. I was saying that. I was saying that. I know. I know. And I was just holding my tongue until we got here. The access code. Oh, you're a good tongue holder. Two priestesses are waiting in the antechamber. Hello, Morpheus. We've been expecting you. Okay. You're on your own. Go with them. They take Neo by the arm, leading him down a hall into another room. And the priestess goes right here among the other potentials.

27:54Hmm? What? I'm just laughing and thinking about the Zion codes. But now you see it's like an actual Greek temple or something. And then interior room of potentials. Neo enters and finally understands the attention given to his age. The potentials are all little children. The room feels at once like a Buddhist temple in a kindergarten class. The children's heads are either shaved or thick with dreadlocks. Some are playing, others meditating or practicing their gift. There were no... There were no... None of that. I just made that up. Neo watches a little girl levitate wooden alphabet blocks. What? You mean quotation marks? Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. No one saw that because it was just... Yeah. Neo watches a little girl levitate wooden alphabet blocks.

28:34A skinny boy holds a spoon which sways like a blade of grass as he bends it with his mind. And there we go. The boy smiles and Neo picks up the spoon and tries to imitate him. Despite his best efforts, Neo can make the bend. And then Spoon Boy says, more akin to the ancient Zen Buddhist parable. You know, your spoon is not bend because it is just that. A spoon. Mine bends because... That's more London. London. Mine bends because there's no spoon, just my mind. Can I shine your shoe, sir? It's like a spit shine, sir. One pen's each. Sir? One... A shilling, sir. Yeah. Shilling. Shilling. Yeah. And then the priestess goes, okay, let's just...

29:16Oh, we'll talk about it later. Next time. Next time. I think we had some gold mines already in this 98, 96 script. So the thing is that access codes, just to clarify, were literal access codes to get into the physical Zion mainframe. Yeah. Yeah, but what... That Zion mainframe means that it is... Zion comes from the... What? I'm confused. I don't know. I thought Zion mainframe was something within Zion. But it is within the matrix. But it's something that the matrix cannot access itself without the oracle. It's encrypted, basically. Because I guess the oracle is the one... Huh. So it is the matrix as a system is fighting its creators as well.

29:59Mm-hmm. Because agent is a part of the system and it wants to... It wants to access to the higher stuff that the architect and the oracle have, but it can't. So it's looking for it. So basically, it's fighting out of there. Yeah, it sounds like it. But then again, like we said, the 1998 one that I read with Morpheus and Neo, that's legit. That's 100% approved. This one that I was reading is from the internet. The internet! And I don't know. So you're saying the agents don't have access to the architect and stuff like that? No, it seems like they don't. Yeah. It seems like they're just lower level, but they are way too smart. Like maybe like...

30:40Because they are programmed to deal with problems with anomalies, right? But they're very smart because they need to deal with these because these are really crafty people because they're originally talented and special. So they're programmed, you know, as AI to be very smart to deal with it. And I think after so many times, you know, they try to kill them, they try to catch them, but they can't get rid of them. So the next step is, okay, so how do we like completely eliminate them? And they come to realize, okay, so it's Zion and the Zion mainframe. And once we destroy that, there's no purpose for us. We don't need to exist. And we're done. Like the Miseeks in Rick and Morty. The Miseeks! All the Miseeks! Yeah. What? It is not completed! Jacob has not seen Rick and Morty. Oh, Rick and Morty. So there's these blue creatures, blue magical alien creatures.

31:23You press this box, this creature pops into existence, and it only can, it exists only for you to tell it to do something. And once it does that, it can like poof into non-existence anymore. And that's its only purpose in life because it really wants to go back in non-existing. It wants to kind of die. Okay. So it's like its entire reality is based on it. It has to complete the task you want it to do. So it's like, and I think they're trying to DT. So Agent Smith is just an angry Miseeks. Yeah. He's just a very, very, very old Miseeks that is just... Yeah, because that's good motivation, you know. How do you... Yeah, yeah.

32:03We'll talk about it. Why does the agents want deletion? I think it's just... Honestly, I know what Tim's talking about. That's how they're created. It might be deeper. It might just be Agent Smith. Just him, not the other two agents. Agent Smith resists deletion. Okay, so just my... Yeah, yeah, yeah. What? Agent Smith resists deletion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Agent... Oh, that's right. He does. Oh, not like deletion, but like... He wants... Remember he says he wants to... In the first one, he wants to get out. Yeah, but he wants to get out of the Matrix. Yes. He doesn't want to not exist. I don't know. I always kind of thought like I just... I don't want to like... I'm done with this. This is stupid. I don't like my reality. I don't like my... I don't like my reality. I think he wants to go into the real world.

32:45I don't think... We'll talk about that when that episode shows up. Because he hates the reality because he hates the smell. So why would he want to go to the real world? You know what I mean? He doesn't like reality as reality is persisted in the real world. That is a cop... In the Matrix, that's a copy of the real world. That's what I think. He wants to exist in a different kind of place. That's a good point. I didn't think about that. Yeah, I don't think he wants to be human. He's not like, I want to be a real boy. I want to be a real boy. Interesting. That's a good point. I didn't think about that. But anyway, so let's finish this off. This is really awesome. Yes. And this is some good news. I still can't get over the five people thing. I like that. I'm just really happy that you found all the info that...

33:26Yeah. You know, we've matched it, right? Yeah. Yeah, Jake, we did great. We did good job research. Cheers, Tim. Cheers. We did... You did research. And we actually... I love that we have found the confirmation in multiple sources. Uh-huh. Yeah. Good job. And I hope you listeners, you know, if you had some longing questions about these movies, that this was able to answer some of us. Yeah, the team effort will prevail. Yes. Tim and Jake will work together and look for the answers. And join us in the discussion group, the... Communism at its finest. No, from the discussion group, our preservation trust. Join us. Did we change it yet? No, no, no. It's just a little matrix discussion group.

34:07Come over. Join. It's super easy. The question's like, what? Does Neo take... Does the red pill or the blue pill? It's like, super easy. And you come in... It's red. That's correct. In case you're stupid. Yeah, yeah. We can talk about stuff, questions that we talked about. Maybe you have sources of information. Maybe you're Phil Osterhaus and you'd like to... Maybe you're a sorcerer supreme. And also, if you are into, again, like philosophy, help us understand these ideas. Yes. That's it. Thanks, everyone, for listening. We will catch you on Monday. Have a great weekend. Hopefully, we're getting going to get guests again. We're getting going to get guests. I did it again.

34:48Yes. Goodbye, everybody. See you later. Have a nice weekend. Later. Bye-bye. I'm sorry.