Minute 45: “I feel I owe you an apology.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00Welcome to The Matrix Minute, a podcast where we discuss the first film one minute at a time because we just love this movie. Hi, I'm Phil and my trivia today is the principal actors trained for four months to do the fight scenes in the film. It's a very vanilla trivia, but you know, you gotta make do with what you have. So guys, I'm Jake and I finally have trivia again. Wow. Do you? So did you guys know that in the first, wait for it, 45 minutes of the film, we're on minute 45, Neo has 80 lines, 44 of which are questions. That's an average of about one question per minute from our friend Neo. That is amazing. That really describes, yeah, Neo.

0:41Yeah. And that means I'm Tim and that means Jake has trivia. That means I don't have to have trivia. Yay. Perfect. Well done. Well done for being lazy. And with us is a new guest. We had Gary last week and this week we have, I have to say this, great Scott Corelli who did all three Back to the Future minutes, like way back, when was that? Like 2015, right? That's when you guys started. Yeah. We started in 2015. Crazyness. Wow. And who's currently doing the Spider-Man minute and has done some films and done some writing for audio dramas as well. It's really great to have him over here, especially since we were, at least I was in two of his

1:22shows beforehand. Oh, and I just forgot. There's also the Cornetto minute. Oh, yes. As well. Wow. Dude, you're doing everything. And welcome, sir. Thank you. Thank you. We're glad to have you on the show. To talk about The Matrix. Indeed. Indeed. So did you say you're doing the Cornetto trilogy? Yeah. Yeah. That's what, we're starting that in October. Myself and my Back to the Future minute co-host, Nick Amenas. It's going to be good. I got a question. What did you think of Baby Driver? Oh, here we go. Oh, no. No, I'm curious. Did you see it? Yeah. Yeah, of course I saw it. I saw it six times. Oh, okay.

2:03Yeah, yeah. I'm not going to bring this up then. No, no. Awesome. But just as a disclaimer, me and Jake really liked the movie. Yeah. All right. We finally got to see it in September. Yeah. No, I have a problem with it for some reason. I'm a huge fan of Edgar Wright and I did not enjoy that movie for some reason. I could not. I just don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand. Strangest. I'm just looking. I'm looking for some people who are, you know, maybe in the same way. Unfortunately. No, no, I'm not mad or crazy. Yeah. It's a three to one thing here. And anyway, so we have a new minute going on in this 45. 45. And on minute 45, I guess we can get straight to it then. Absolutely. And this is what happens. Morpheus feels he owes Neo an apology.

2:44Once the mind reaches a certain age, they don't free it. But he felt that he had to break that rule because he believes in Neo. After a pause, Morpheus recounts the prophecy of the one who freed the first of them. We end as Morpheus declares, as long as the Matrix exists, the human race will never be free. So Morpheus is back. He's back. And he's back with, I think it's exposition. I think that's right. It's more exposition. Well, first an apology, then some exposition. That is true. That is true. That's what I wanted to say. Like, this scene, it's an interesting point where we kind of take a little break from all the craziness that was going on. Especially that big shock at the end where it's like, I don't believe it. I don't know. And he was just.

3:24His little dance. Yes. And Neo is just over the, I would say over the moon is not the right description. That would be totally opposite. But in a bad way. Like the negative version. He's like over the sun. All right. That's good. He's over the sun. No, he's over the dark side of the moon. Ah, there we go. Under the moon? Under the moon. That's better. See? There we go. I'm so glad we have. My people are so much better than us. It's just general truth, Tim. That's the general. So yeah. But yeah. And then this sort of like eases us back into like, like, what's actually an interesting because the aftershock. It is sort of like, you know, yeah. When you have any sort of like serious or dramatic thing happen in general, it's like,

4:06oh, I think you're, you know, shocked or whatever. It's like, there's always that period afterwards where you kind of have to, I suppose, like, yeah. Like where you have to. Take a breather. Yeah. And I think that's a good thing as well. And for pacing, especially in this film, like this sort of thing, I think they did it very well. And they kind of eased into this sort of thing quite expertly, in my opinion. And also, yeah, like you said, like, it's more human. Like we have Morpheus actually talking about how he owes him an apology. He's like, and you see a little bit of his personal side, you know, because this whole time he was kind of just. Good point. Yeah. You know, doing exposition after exposition and teaching and telling us the audience about things. And also he had of definitely a different kind of approach in the way he talked.

4:50This is much more personal and human. Even though he kind of changed his approach to things. Once Neo went into the real world, he was a little bit more touchy feely and, you know. When was it touchy feely? No, but you know, he's like, your eyes hurt. Even though that's very sort of like, but he's like, you know, he doesn't have the glasses so he can see his actual eyes. So, you know. Oh, that's true. Yeah. So it's a bit more human emotion in there. But. Yeah. Sort of. It's almost like he's apologizing for all the exposition that we've gotten this whole movie from him. Definitely. Because he's literally, you know, he's saying, you know, we don't usually wait this long to pull somebody out of the Matrix because it's a lot for them to handle.

5:30And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. There's been a lot of exposition. That's true. That's right. This has been a lot for all of us to handle. He's apologizing to the audience. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. But that bears true with like what Neo is. And he is like an avatar to, like I keep saying like all the time, like he is our point of view. Yeah. Yeah. What Morpheus is saying to Neo, he's also kind of an extent saying to us, the audience as well. Yeah. But I guess for me, like, go ahead. Oh, sorry. No. But then again, he starts again with world building in exposition. Once again, after the apology, he can't stop himself. Right. It's a clean slate to start something new. You know, explain it. Yeah. Go ahead, Jake. I wanted to say something, but now I forgot. I'm so sorry, Jacob. No, no, it's okay.

6:10It's all good. You guys talk. Well, the other thing too, I think you guys have brought this up just a couple of times, but not a whole lot because you tend to kind of focus on, I mean, the movie itself. But what I will say is I think that this, the pacing, the way that you were talking about the pacing and watching it now, watching this movie now, re-watching it when you guys were starting the podcast and then watching these minutes again, even like just like out of sequence with the rest of the movie. I, you know, I'm watching this and I'm just sort of struck by how well the Wachowskis were able to recreate the feeling that you get when you're watching anime.

6:55You know, live action context, because this just feels like you could animate this and this would just feel like an anime. Oh, dude. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of mind blowing how they were able to recreate that same feeling because that's a thing that anime does a lot, anime films and whatnot, is that you have action scenes and then you have character scenes and you have exposition scenes. Oh yeah. And they all are kind of very segregated in the way that they're structured. And the Matrix does the same thing, especially this first one. And just the scene of these two guys talking, I'm just kind of like blown away by how much

7:37this feels like watching an anime, even though it's live action. Yeah. And the way it's framed as well kind of gives you, like it really, like I talked about how they were of a comic book background and the way they're used to seeing these kinds of shots and anime as well. There's a lot of unconventional kind of like, you know, angles. It also goes to show like how much if you love something or something influences you, you take great care to translate that or how that affects you, it ends up, you can tell that they obviously are not just like, oh, this is cool. Actually, this is ingrained in their sort of process. Absolutely. In their DNA. Yeah. Because they've sort of soaked up these, you know, different mediums or styles.

8:20Like what I love about in this minute in particular is that there's this closeup of Neo. He's like lying in bed and the shot is essentially a smartphone selfie composition, but sideways. You know what I mean? You just see Neo's entire like profile from the chest up. Yeah. But he's lying in bed and it's horizontal and it's working so well with the aspect ratio as well. It's wonderful. Stuff like that. That's really cool. Yeah. The lighting on Morpheus too. There's just that really like deep black on the, what is that? The right side of his face. Yeah. And then the left side is, is really well lit. I mean, just Bill Pope working in overdrive. Oh man. We can talk about Bill Pope if you want to, because I saved this for quite some time and

9:04I think there's no better time and no better guest to talk about it than with Scott, because we both really love Bill Pope. Oh yeah. No, I mean, he's, he's our greatest working director of photography. I love Bill Pope's work and I have to just say like, this is as a standard for movies by Minutes thing. We want, you know, the idea of just adding a little bit of a background bio to things. Come on. Absolutely. Bill Pope, we have to give his bio. Yeah. Oh, Spider-Man. I see. Well, yeah. Not just. Like, what's going on? What do you do? And the World's End eventually. Oh, there you go. And the World's End as well. Oh, he did Scott Pilgrim as well. Oh man. That was a good shot. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Bill Pope, he was born in June 19th, 1952.

9:44So he's one year older than our dad. Oh wow. Which is interesting. Oh, he shot the Metallica one video. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah, man. He started off doing like lots of like camera operating in the 1970s. But, but like, like for, he did one episode of Three's Company. No way. As a camera operator back then. Wow. But then later in the early 80s, he did like a ton of music videos. Oh, okay. See, I'm You Have Darkness. I see the connection with Sammy. I've noticed that like directors tend to also sometimes start out with music videos, but I guess also cinematographers also start out doing music videos. Yeah. Yeah. Music videos are a pretty good test bed. Yeah. I think like to get into. Not to be Murr, but they used to be. Or they used to be. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still thinking in the 90s, what is my problem?

10:25We were talking about video editors just, just like half an hour ago before you came on. And I was still thinking about 2001's Adobe Premiere. And I'm like, it's terrible. I don't want to try it. And we're like, no, it's 2017. It's much better. So much better than it used to be back in the day. Back in the day, it was horrible. Yeah. I know. I know. So yeah. Continue. Yeah. He did. So I think the first movie he did was Darkman. Correct me if I'm wrong, Scott, because you might know. I have this thing pulled up. I think it, I mean, it was, it would have either been Darkman or Clueless. Here, let me check. Yeah. I got it. Clueless. That's right. And then eventually, you know, Army of Darkness and then the Sam Raimi connection with Darkman

11:07as well. King of the Army of Darkness? Yeah. No way. Yeah, yeah, man. I remember when I was watching the, yeah, when I was watching the film, like when I was watching the credits, like, cause I haven't. That's my favorite Evil Dead film. Yeah. I like Evil Dead 2 though, but, you know, to each his own. Yeah. Scott, what do you think? Evil Dead. I'm an Evil Dead 2 person. But, but I do find that I watch the first Evil Dead more than the other two. Oh. Just cause I like the story of them making it, I guess? Yeah. I don't know. There's something charming about it. What's the, like, what's the difference between the two? Like, is there, cause I remember it was basically the same movie, wasn't it? Well, it is, but, but the first one is kind of like, um, them trying to do a super serious,

11:51like, I know, yeah. Crazy horror movie. No, no, there's actually, there's a moment, um, at the end of Evil Dead where the, where the, um, the Deadite energy or whatever you want to call that is rushing through the house and hits, uh, which runs right into Bruce Campbell. Yeah. Right. That's how the first movie ends. There's a moment in the second movie about 15 minutes in where they recreate that shot. And then when it hits Ash, that's actually where part two begins. Right. So the previous, everything before that is them remaking the first movie because they didn't have the rights to the first movie to show clips from the first movie. Okay. That's hilarious. So they had to remake it to be like, this is what happened before.

12:32And now we're going to make our sequel. Realistically, it is just a remake though, right? Well, yeah. The first. The first 15 minutes. The first 15 minutes. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cause, cause he comes into the, with the other people who are similar to them, but they're not. Okay. Which one does he lose the arm and gets a chainsaw? That's two. That's two. That's in the second one. Okay. Yeah. The first one is pretty straightforward. Well, he also loses his arm in the third one and gets a, what does he get in the third one? No, no. In the third one, he already has his. He already has a chainsaw. Chainsaw. That's good. Boomstick. Boomstick. Yeah. Yeah. And so Bill Pope, let's go back to that. He then did Bound for the Wachowskis. And then, you know, then we went to the Matrix and after that he's been doing all kinds

13:13of great stuff. He's been doing, you know, the Matrix sequels. Did he do Speedmaster? I don't think so. Oh, he did Team America with Police. Yeah. Yeah. That must have been a fun challenge. And I think, I think in my opinion, Bill Pope's finest work is still The Matrix. I have to say, I just love how the lighting looks like and how contrasty it is. And, you know, his use of key lights, you know, it's being a dominant aspect in his composition. And also using shadows a lot, especially in this first movie, in The Matrix. In the second and third ones, his style is a little bit more bright. It's not as rusty or contrastic.

13:57Because in the first film, he does strike a good balance between sort of like a natural sort of vibe, but it's still stylistic. Yeah. But it's not overly stylistic. It's very film quality, but over stylistic film quality. Then the second one starts to get really sort of, you know, like computer generate kind of look to it, you know. Yeah. It kind of does. I think the second and third are sort of, I don't know, I would probably like describe them a little more flatter, I think, sort of. Yeah. That's what it feels like. Were they shot on digital? Is that why? No, no, no, no. They weren't. No. I think it was just, it's just some kind of a decision that they made. Well, I also think that if I'm not mistaken, I think that digital grading, I think, was already picking up sort of speed. And I think people were using it more, maybe. Maybe. And I think, you know, it was obviously a fad in a way.

14:37Yeah. And it still is. Because The Matrix was one of the first movies to implement digital grading. Okay. And I think that they were pretty minimal when it came to that. I bet. I bet. Yeah. And later on when people got used to, you know, doing all that crazy stuff with compositing and the sliders and layers and everything. And you always have that, you know, it's like, oh, you know, it's like, you know, they started and then everyone picked it up and then they're coming back. We've got to show off, you know, like where the original ones. We've got to make it three times more graded. Yeah. But ironically, the second two Matrix are less green than this one. Are they? Really? Especially in this print. I don't know. This print is. They feel more green to me in my memory. No, I think it's less green. But I know that this film. What a wonderful argument. But didn't they regrade this movie?

15:18Didn't they regrade the first movie? They did. That's what I was going to talk about. Yeah. In, I think, our episode 13, I think we were talking about that. We were talking about the differences between the digital grade because the video release from, this is a recap for everybody who forgot what we talked about way back. This video release is supposed to be way more accurate to the theatrical edition. Because there was the original DVD. I thought we were watching the DVD. The VHS and DVD. With the blue poster. Yeah. From, yeah, that's the 2000 release. And that was. That one had flat urine looking green. And also like, wasn't it very bright? It was like the brightness was. And yeah, the bright, it was really flat too.

15:59Yeah. It wasn't as dynamic as the one that we're watching now. And then I went to do some more research and I found some people in a message board called OriginalTrilogy.com, which talk about the preservations for the original Star Wars movies. And someone had a film print of the original Matrix and they scanned some of the. Negatives. Some of the. Yeah. Some of the frames. And it looks very similar to the one that we're watching on the Blu-ray and on the HD DVD that came out in 2008. Well, the one that they mastered in 2004. 2004. So then. So yeah. Obviously, or not obviously, but supposedly it would lead us to believe that it was a bad transfer.

16:40Yeah, the 2001 was. They messed with it in some sense. So the video release that, the home video release in 2000 was the one that sold the most and that people mostly remember who still, you know, remember that time. And I thought that was a more accurate process than the new one that we got in 2004, but it seems to be the opposite. Okay. Yeah. Because I like this version better. Bit curious in it. It is. Yeah. One more thing about Bill Pope. And I think that he, he really did a good job with the Spider-Man two, even though I liked the lighting in Spider-Man one, but he made Spider-Man two feel a lot more visceral. It feels more cinematic. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that too. I think Bill Pope is sort of the, like the sort of perfect amalgamation of like Dean

17:27Cundey and Roger Deakins. If you like combine those two guys. Oh, that's a good. Okay. So it's like, it's like that middle. Yeah. Between those two. Right. Hmm. What do you think, Tim? That's actually, I don't really agree. Nobody touched my Deakins down. I'm just joking. No, I, I, it's, it's funny that, um, I'm looking at the cinematography and I think what's wonderful is that, uh, it looks like he's really good at capturing whatever the idea is and then sort of translating no matter what his personal style is, because I'm looking at it and I don't actually see a personal style. And, uh, we were looking at the sort of storyboards and the art, you know, the, how, how it should look. And it's really capturing the sort of vibe of whatever the Wachowski we're kind of putting

18:08through. So that's really good that he's managed to, whatever was on that crappy drawing we saw was put into this picture and it's, it looks great. And then there's like, I don't know, like if it compared to Clueless or something like that, I wouldn't, I had no idea that it's the same person, you know? Yeah. I will say if you watch Clueless, if you rewatch it now, knowing that he was the DP of it, it's weird how beautiful that movie is. Like it has to be as good looking as it is. That's awesome. Oh boy. So can we bring it back a little bit to the. Let's go back to. Yeah. I want to, I want to point out a few things that I didn't notice before. I didn't really care about.

18:49Honestly, the first thing is, you know, something we talked about, but before I remember even when we were kids because of the Animatrix, but he mentions that, you know, that it's been a bit too late that he unplugged him. Usually we unplug them younger. How young? Yeah. That's what I was going to ask. Like, yeah. What, what do you think happens to a mind after a certain age or what is a certain age? I mean. I have a theory. Okay. Go. Okay. So my theory is that, um, I think the Brontosaurus in general, in general, I think that, um, the idea is that as you grow older, you have more experiences and your beliefs sort of solidify

19:31and you have a harder time changing your beliefs. And I think that's in general true. And I think that the whole point of freeing someone earlier is that you are essentially more open to challenging or changing your beliefs, especially when it comes to something so extreme, like the world isn't actually the real world. You're in a computer program. Yeah. And so I think that they found out through trial and error, freeing people from the matrix, I guess, that, uh, some people, if they're older, they have trouble actually believing and coming to terms with those new truths. Well, especially, I mean, consider like, what if they have a wife or children in the matrix?

20:13Yeah. And then they're pulled out and they're like, yeah, yeah, those weren't, they weren't real. So yeah. Yeah. Your relationship wasn't real. Nothing about that was real. Don't worry about it. I mean, you're kind of worried about it. You had, you had a wife and kids in there. Like, come on. Right. So, so I think they're just, I think Neo is, you know, right on the, the edge there where he is older. And so he may be, you know, slightly more attached to the matrix than someone in their early twenties may have been. Yeah. Um, but he's also not attached to anyone because he never really felt like he fit in.

20:53So it's just like kind of a perfect, you know, like it gives him enough of a, um, enough angst that we, we don't feel like, ah, he's kind of, you know, buying into all of this a little too quickly. Um, it gives him a little angst so that we can sort of see ourselves in him and understand that he's struggling with this a little bit. But we'll also understand when he gets over it, you know, in like 20 minutes. Yeah. Exactly. Well, you should get them when they're teenagers really. Yeah. That's where they're rebelling. I would say so. Yeah. They won't believe you. It's just, it's nothing. It's crap. I don't believe you. There's someone else. Sure. But they have leather jackets and sunglasses. They're pretty cool. Yeah. You can get the trick. Probably. But Scott, would you bring up an interesting point, which I never thought about because

21:36our hero is a very solitary hero. And throughout this movie, anyone who's unplugged is basically an innocent bystander and you don't really care about him. But that kind of, you know, what if did he have someone he cared for? You know, he was a loner, but what if there was someone he would want unplugged as well? That would actually make, I would want to watch like a Matrix drama where it's like, I miss them, but like you can't unplug them. They're like, well, you know, they're talking about doing this whole like Matrix, you know, kind of shared universe thing. They're wanting to like bring back the universe and make more adventures in this universe. And I'm for it because it's stuff like that where you think, well, there's no more story

22:17to tell. It's like, well, maybe in this sort of like prophecy, hero's journey, Neo thing, but there's plenty of stories to tell inside the Matrix. Like someone who's, you know, someone whose husband or wife just disappears and they don't know why. And then they find out later it's because they were unplugged from the Matrix. Like that's, that's a crazy idea for a movie. Like, I think that'd be really interesting. Yeah. The Animatrix kind of tapped into that a little bit, but I think it was, yeah, but it was like a little too little. We need more. We need more of these stories. Definitely. But I think for people who are fans, that was great. And even the Wachowskis, they embraced it. I mean, they produced it and they were in charge of releasing all that stuff.

22:58But it makes you wonder why did the Matrix, why is it like a multiplayer kind of place? You would wonder, like, wouldn't it be easier for the Matrix if everyone else in your world was actually a robot? And you're, you're, and you're just like, you just have these multiple worlds. Yeah, I was thinking about that too. So it's like the Truman Show? Essentially. Like everyone. They're programmed. Like maybe they're the same amount of people and you can like, like, you know, grab some of the information on how they're living their life. Why would they have done the interconnected minds? Maybe sells it better? You know, the sort of... Yeah, for this plot, obviously. But I mean... I mean, obviously for the plot, but for the people living in the Matrix, maybe the unpredictability of other people makes it realer. I don't know.

23:38I think the Matrix is such a large thing to create, like such a large program that you can't, I mean, the idea of like making... Duplicating it. Millions of them. Period. It's got their own Matrix. Point, yeah. That's a lot of processing. Well, if Neo didn't save everyone in the end, I think that would be the next step. They're like, okay, we've done so many Matrixes. What are we doing next? Everyone gets their own world and you pick and choose your face, like, you know, like a character creator and you choose the world you live in and everybody happy. Fine. Good. Let's go. But it doesn't work. They reject the system if it's too perfect. Coming back briefly to the freeing of the people in the Matrix.

24:22I always wondered, how do they exactly... Do they profile individuals or how do they go about picking? Or is this sort of like a coincidental sort of... We tried this last time, but we didn't have any clues. We don't have any clues. I think it must be profiling. They must profile people. Because that would make the most sense, I think, right? Yeah. Because none of these people that have been pulled out, they all seemed like Neos. They all seemed like loners. But here's the funny thing, though. And they all seemed to have a proficiency for, you know, hacking. For hacking. That's what I thought, too. And ever since I was a kid, like, watching the movie, that made sense to me. Like, hackers are more prone to discover the Matrix, right? Yeah. But then I guess if we... Obviously, we're talking about the first Matrix.

25:03But if we take into consideration the second and the third films, that completely changes the picture. Or no, that's not true. Because they're all homegrown. They're not hackers. Well, you would believe... Well, if you look at the second movie, and especially in the beginning when they have like a little meetup of cool people... Like, on the Nebuchadnezzar... Yeah, but the guys in the ships are hackers, I would say. No, but like, on a Nebuchadnezzar, you could sort of take everyone for a hacker, right? Yeah. They got that go... But in the second movie, like, everyone looks like thugs. Those aren't not hackers. Those are like mobsters. You know what I mean? I think they're hackers. Sure. Sure, sure. They're hackers. But there's, like, I don't think specifically everybody that they take out of the Matrix is

25:47of the... Well, most of them are, but there's some people that aren't. For sure. I'm not saying exclusively hackers. I'm just saying, like, they... It's like that sort of... Well, I think they might pull people out who they need their expertise for one thing or another. Like, I imagine they probably found someone who was like a biologist or, you know, to be like a doctor or, you know, found someone who was, you know, someone who was into botany or agriculture for, you know, growing things in Zion, you know? So, I don't know. Yeah, that sounds like a... That's a very good point there. Yeah. Definitely.

26:27Neo... Yeah, what was this? I think we tried to talk about this. Where did we stop? We stopped at... Yeah, saying that how Neo, obviously, he's in a sort of sweet spot where he's not really... He doesn't have anything keeping him in the Matrix. He's a blank slate. He is. I mean, when I was a kid... But he's obviously okay being freed. Watching it, it was always obvious that the Oracle knew who it was and told Morpheus. But re-watching this movie, I can realize she doesn't give anyone really clue. I mean, Morpheus did all the work by himself. She just says, you know, whatever she says. But I always thought like, oh, she pointed out like, that one. Pick that one. He's beautiful. Pick that one.

27:08So, I don't know. Pick him. He is the one. I don't know. We'll get to the Oracle at some point. Yeah. Well, he starts talking about them in the next episode. So, we're going to keep it to that. Yeah. And then he goes... Well, I will say, I think... I find it odd that there were two movies that came out in 1999. Two really big movies that both featured characters who were, quote unquote, too old for training. And I... What are you talking about? I think that's really... Star Wars? I'm talking about Phantom Menace. Oh! Okay. I was like, fight for it? No. Yeah, me too. I was thinking, when was that in 5 o'clock? Oh, that's the first thing I was in. Yeah. No, no, no. Oh, dude. Exactly. Oh, yeah. In a Menace. That's right. The Chosen One. It was a year of prophecies.

27:49That's what it was. Yep. Yeah, yeah. That's right. It was too... Well, you know, millennial... Y2K and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. The millennial is in things. It's just like the... Yeah, that's the general... We need a savior. The general thought of... Yeah. One can hack and one can drive really fast. Yeah. So, I wanted to say that all this was probably... A lot of midichlorians. Yeah. Oh, no. No midichlorians. So, all this was probably filmed on, like, the recording. Well, that's how they find the people. They track their midichlorians. Exactly. Oh, their matrix midichlorians. While they're sleeping, just a little... It's the matrix meter. The little shaver. Yeah. Goes up... Goes up... Oh, yeah. The little... The signals are strong. Yeah. Let's get him.

28:30So, I wanted to say... I think he's reaching one signal. One levels. Like, you know, the one levels. Exactly. Okay. So... Where do we stop? I just wanted to say that I think this whole scene here was filmed with the audio from the set in this case. Because I was listening to it and it sounded very... It has that live magic. I always love the set off the audio. I always love the audio off the set. The set off the audio. Yeah, it's true. I mean, like, sometimes... I mean, if you're attuned to it, you can pick up when something was ADR'd and when something Can I just... On a mic. Just say something really quick. Yeah. It's like a public announcement. One of my stories. Okay. Okay. I love to find out, like, on Blu-rays, that when characters are shot, like, when it's

29:14like a really big wide shot in a film. Oh, yes. And this character is, like, far away. Almost every movie, you can tell they ADR'd the dialogue over that character. So, they obviously replaced the audio. Yeah. And it's different lines. And it's usually... It's either different lines or they're not talking at all. Yeah. So, I remember, like, Groundhog Day. I remember, like, Bill Murray in the car. And he's not moving his lips at all. And he's like, oh, this weather. Yeah. I just love it. I love seeing that on the Blu-rays. Because, like, they were hiding that before, getting away with it. Because you're not really paying attention. But now we can see, in pristine quality, it's my favorite thing to look out for. They do that to add jokes to comedies. Like, the studio will be like, there hasn't been a joke in a minute and a half.

29:54We need to add a joke. And then they'll add it in ADR. Just put it in. It's your wide shot. He's far. He's far enough. Put it on him. I do that a lot. The ones I always notice is in old Adam Sandler movies. Like, somebody will, like, run off camera. And you'll just hear them being like, da-da-da-da-da-da. Exactly. Like, off camera. Saying, like, another joke. And you're like, no. It's funny. Because if you pay attention, you can actually notice that. Even in, like, when you go watch a movie in cinemas. You can go like, oh, my goodness. There it is. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. I love it. I love it. Especially when you do, like, a reverse shot. Like, when it keeps cutting. And then you can see the chin not moving. Or the joke ends with them on the other character. And then, like, if you watch it, like, over and over and over again. Like, something moved. You can start to see everything that's wrong with it. The reverse trick I noticed is, like, they still kind of, right?

30:35I found one for Dark Knight Rises. Did you? Because... I remember? The Injustice. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because it's easy. Because you have, like, so much footage. You know? You just cover both sides and you can just choose. Whatever. Whatever. I don't know. Whatever. Yeah. So... Where were we? Yeah. Morpheus says these things. And then he says, when the Matrix was first built, there was a man born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit. It was he who freed the first of us, taught us the truth. Now, this is another info dump here. But it's, like, one of those important things that he's trying to say. And I love how Lawrence delivers this, though.

31:18Yeah, well, I think it is. I think it's... I think this and the sentence that he says later is the... What's the later sentence? It's sort of like... Where he says, as long as the Matrix exists, the human race will never be free. You know? And he also... That's the sort of thing that he's saying. And I think that this is sort of, like, the ultimate... Well, I think that's, like, the pledge in the film, where they're saying, this is what the whole thing is about, you know? That is true. Sorry. I was thinking more of the specific things he was saying. The story of the one man. Oh, the story. Well, I wanted to go into that, too. I never kind of caught that one, you know, a long time ago when I watched it. It wasn't very important to me.

31:59But he never really touches us. I mean, in the other movies, sure. But in this movie, I think this is the only time he mentions the sort of, I guess, lore or whatever, right? Of this one man who freed everyone and stuff. That's a... Like, what do we... In the sort of, I guess, in the closure of this movie, you know? What does that mean? What do you think he's... Well, all right. So there's two things. One, I want to get into, like, the actual... Like, the actual mythology of this within The Matrix, the film. Which is that, like, I assume that this guy, the reason he could control The Matrix stuff is because he had some sort of, I don't know, like, some sort of, like, biological block

32:45where he wasn't... Even though he was plugged into The Matrix, he could be aware of The Matrix and manipulate things. And so it was a DNA thing. Like, it was... Oh. It was something very specific. Because here's the thing. There's nothing, like, fantastical in this movie. At least there's not supposed to be. They talk about this stuff like it's fantastical because it's sort of become their mythology. But it's all tech-based. Everything. And so I think that this guy, whoever this guy was, I think that there was, you know, in their cloning process, they found a flaw in their cloning process.

33:26And this guy exploited that flaw and exploited The Matrix as a result. And it all sort of, from the machine's perspective, it all kind of went downhill from there. We never thought of that. This guy just started unplugging people like crazy because he knew the truth. Well, you know what? Speaking of which, I think you're, like, very close to what they were talking about in Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions. Now, again, disclaimer, I wanted to say that when we talk about these movies, just like last time when we had this whole history of all the machine war, we like to keep it contained to just this movie so we can make up whatever we want for the backstory based on the clues we have in the movie itself, like the first one.

34:07But, again, this is one of those things where you can't ignore the fact that Reloaded and Revolutions are about this specifically and it's really important in that regard. Can I just really quickly just finish what I wanted to say? I just wanted to say that this was, you're right, Scott, like, in the official canon, it's like the architect explains that there's this anomaly of, like, codes that happens. Here's my question. Isn't that on purpose? Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Isn't that, like, he's part of the system. Instead of biological or DNA linked, the machines basically endowed him with special powers to

34:48set off this resistance. Also because there's, like... It's like the catalyst, you know? Yeah. But why? Why would they want that? Because there's, apparently, in the Matrix Reloaded, what the architect says is that there's, like, all this leftover code that has to be recycled and it's all put into the one, like, who is the one. Who's, like, the resetter. Yeah. And he has to go in and reload the Matrix when he gets back into the architect's office and then he picks the right door to reset the whole thing. To get all this anomaly code out of the Matrix. Like, it all gathers?

35:29So they're dealing with a bug, in a sense, but then they just go through the cycle. Yeah, and then that's why they just keep going through the cycle. And instead of fixing it, they just sort of just do that. Yeah. I mean, in programming, there's this thing called Trash Collector. And it's basically that. It's like all the junk, all the variables that are not on set, they kind of left in the RAM. And there's this one process that goes and cleans that all up. So I guess. That you are the trash collector. I guess you just renamed through the one. The machines were, like, programming and they're like, okay, so we did all these calculations and this system should work. But there's this one part of our calculations that's not working. So we have to design a feature onto it. And I guess that will be the one. That's what they did. Yeah. And they turned it into a religion. Well, does that make them special? As far as, like, what Scott was saying, as far as DNA, or they just plug him in a special

36:13plug. No, they don't. I think it's the DNA now. I think it's the DNA. They give him, like, programming. Like, you know, like, user 55, they'd be like. Yep, user 55. Give him special abilities. And according to the architect, like, the one's life for every one of, well, spoiler, I mean, this is the fifth one. Sixth one. Sixth one. It's the sixth one. And all the other ones beforehand had a similar kind of life because they tried to keep it as straightforward as they could to keep that anomaly in check. No way. Yeah. We're going to have to talk about that at some point. It has to be DNA. It can't just be user 55 because he can plug in anywhere and have his one powers.

36:56Good point. So it has to be DNA. But they could, like, find out, like, oh, he left the Matrix, switch off his special powers. I mean. They still have that code they have to reload. Yeah. Whatever. And clean up. I mean, like, the Wichoskis were sort of, you know, inspired by all the sort of religions, mythology. So this could be, you know, like, oh, you know, we like reincarnation. So we kind of keep that in there. For sure. I was going to say, like, there's these, yeah. There's like the, there's the, there's the practical aspect we're talking about, which is like the actual, like what the facts are with this sort of first person that was freed and had these special powers. But then, of course, there are religious overtones here. Again, with Morpheus being this sort of like, you know, he's, he's like we talked about in earlier episodes, like the symbol of faith, right?

37:36He's like the guy who's sort of leaning on, on tradition and sort of like what's been passed down. Right. And so then it's sort of confusing. Is it like, is it a real thing or is it something that's just like, you know, mythology or what is it? Welcome to the real world. Yeah. But it's very lovely. It's funny. I think I remember I, for some reason watching the Matrix, I think I connected the, the, what the person they're talking about here being the architect and he's like the person, I don't know, weird stuff. I don't know. For me, I just thought it was like a story that like, I was going to ask you guys, it was the birth of this sort of. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to ask you guys, like, do you think that Morpheus was talking about it as if it was like a long time ago or do you think that it was his lifetime where he's

38:18like, he freed the first of us? Cause when I was a kid, I kind of thought that he might, the way he's looking down on the floor and it looks like he's recollecting. Always remembering. Well, I like that cause it's mysterious. You don't know. The first of us. Yeah. In the sort of aspect of the first movie, I thought it was like, yeah, he's talking because we didn't know about the iterations of the Neo that's not mentioned in the first movie. That's supposed to be a shock moment in the next movie. So, you know, you later see some free people and stuff like that. It's always thought it was like a hundred years, you know, ago, that man first. And this is like the continuation of that, of that thing. I didn't understand that he's connected, Neo's connected to that guy and Neo's supposed to be whatever, you know, the prophecy that Morpheus believes in. But yeah, if you, if you think about it, like being, well, we're going to get into this

39:01later because there's a lot of philosophy into that. But my own personal opinion is that Neo is nothing special, but because, you know, because they think he's the one, he is able to pass that barrier and, you know, free his mind. But it doesn't make him special. It's just that everyone thinks he's special. He's able to go through that, you know, next level and anyone could actually do it. That's what I took from it. Oh, interesting. Always. No way. Yeah. Scott? Huh. How did you read it? I don't know. I'm just listening. I think that's, I think that's interesting. I, I, I definitely like that if we're discounting the two sequels.

39:42Yeah. Yeah. I definitely like that interpretation the best of that. He's actually not the one and it's just everyone telling that he is. And then the necessity of needing to be the one in the moment where he becomes the one. Yeah. Or I like that. Or the last interpretation could be the spiritual interpretation. Yeah. Which would be that there's actually supernatural elements in the story and this prophecy is something that's actually true. Right. Right. And where Neo is actually, is connected to this. And it's not tech based after all. Yeah. It's not tech based. Yeah. Yeah. That's the last way you could look at it. Yeah. Well, the way he's describing the first one, you know, how he, you know, he, he said, I

40:24mean, it's, it's basically Moses, right? I mean, that's, that's essentially what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Which is really interesting considering, I mean, you know, Neo later basically becomes Jesus. Jesus. So there's definitely some, you know, Christian mythology going on here as well. Oh, for sure. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And they, you know, they put a build, you know, Buddhist and all that stuff. You mix it together, you know, it's a reincarnation. You mix it together. You know, it's a melting pot. It's a sci-fi salad. It's all the religions. Pop. But it works so well. But that's sci-fi salad. That's what I always love though about the Matrix films is that there's so many elements. It's not just philosophy, it's also religion.

41:04And it's all like, there's so many aspects to the story. You could read it different ways. I know. It's fun. And I always thought that's why our episodes get so long. Yeah, I know. Yeah. It is great because when watching this for the first time, you start, you know, discovering all these elements that are there and you think they're very part of the story, but later on you kind of realize their flavors. But us doing this minute by minute right now, I rediscover so many other sort of philosophical thoughts that I had when I was a kid thinking about it that I completely forgot. And I would just thought, oh, there's no nuances. And there's just like ideas from religion, philosophy, and, you know, just used for a little bit of flair. But it's actually throughout this movie, there's, you know, there's actual themes that are going on, which is awesome.

41:45I'm starting to like this movie again. And I still always wonder, like, I'm sure there's a lot of, you know, themes that we're not even aware of, I think. To be honest, like, undertones or, you know, references that I think that... So someone else can do a Matrix Minute with like a deeper... Yeah, deeper, more... It's the... I mean... Yeah. Pure philosophy. But you have to like... No, no, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, sorry. Go ahead. I was just going to make a stupid joke. Oh. No, stupid joke. I said later I have to play a clip for us first and be like... Never. The forerunners have spoken, but... Yeah, well, I was just going to say, it's sort of the benefit of this movie taking so long to get made is that they could just keep going over that script over and over and over again.

42:26Yes. And I think it's the reason why the sequels don't work as well is because they were pressured to get them to come out. And, you know, you end up making the movie based on like a second or third draft maybe. Instead of what this was, which was like, you know, probably a 12th draft by the time they actually started shooting it. Exactly. It was like... Yeah, it was like 14. I'm just always amazed at how the Wachowskis, they're just so like well-read and you can really tell in the movies just how much, you know, the polishing and researching and studying. Right. But you got to boil all that down. You got to keep boiling it down. And this one got boiled down. All those crazy, you know, philosophical and religious and mythology ideas, all of it

43:10got boiled down and down and down until we get this, just this really great movie. And he explains like the prophecy thing in just one minute. Yeah. Which is what we talked about in the last one. I can tell him where the 96 script is not so refined. No. And then we see and they finally refined it so well in the film. It was great. The 96 script that you guys go through reminds me of the sequels. Wait, you listen to this podcast? Yeah, of course I do. Yay! Scott's awesome. Scott's great. You're a brave man. It's only three episodes a week. It's fine. Okay. Yeah. Wonderful. Dude, that's the way. That's the spirit.

43:50We actually really appreciate it a lot. We do. We do appreciate people listening. Because we're such amateur hour, man. We're so glad to have you here. I'm just like, this man is doing it so well. I need to think about what I say. I can't just be spurting out whatever comes to my mind. I mean, you could. Yeah, you could. So, as long as the Matrix exists, the human race will never be free. Does Morpheus know that if you destroy the Matrix, you kill most of the population? Well, here's my question. I always wonder, what is Morpheus alluding to when it comes to freeing the human race? I always wonder, does he mean some kind of reconciliation between machine and man? Or is he meaning true, like, being unplugged?

44:33Somehow I feel like machine and man living together is like cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria. I don't think he means that. I think he wants to kill all the machines. It's your second Bill Murray reference today. Oh, really? Yeah, because you referenced Groundhog Day earlier. We're idiots. Okay, cool. But yeah, when I was a kid, I always thought, like, when Morpheus meant that when the Matrix is destroyed, I honestly, I always had this thought in my head that everyone will spontaneously wake up from their tubes. I was going to say, it could be. And that's how the Matrix will be destroyed. It could be. And then all the machines will shut down, like in Star Wars Episode I.

45:14But yeah, I'm working. Well, that's why they need the one. Because he's the only one capable of pulling everyone out of the Matrix and allowing them to survive. Right, right. That's the whole reason why they're looking for him. They're not just, like, looking for him for funsies. Like, that's the goal. I don't know. Funsies sounds fun. If you look at it, like, they're like, okay, we can unplug every person like we're unplugging them now. And that would take years and it's never going to work. They think, like, you know. Right. The, you know, the ex machina, Neo's the one. They don't know what he can do, but he'll probably figure out this one problem we have that there's, like, thousands of people we can't unplug. But if he's the one, the one probably will do it. We don't know how, practically, but he's the one, you know.

45:56And spoilers, he does. But it's not very, it's not very fulfilling. He kills everyone. He doesn't kill everyone. No. I don't know why he does. I don't even remember. I think that's it. I don't think there's anything else in this minute. I think we've reached the end of it. Yes. Morpheus is cool. Neo has really great reactions. Does Morpheus have his little emblem? He turns. Necklace? Yeah, he's holding his necklace again. I don't know what that's about because we never see it again. He has so many items because in the future we'll find out the greatest of his... Oh, yes, we will. What's it called? Assets? Is that what you're sure? I guess. Accessories? The greatest of his accessories. Which is a red pouch. Yeah. Well, the red pouch, I think, is in the background. Do you think? Or no?

46:36I don't know. It's like in one of the wide shots. I don't know. I'm sure Morpheus has a whole chest full of... There's a pouch on the... There's Neo's pouch. Neo's pouch? Neo's pouch? Yeah. What? Yeah, he's a little satchel. Not a satchel. Is that a satchel? What is that? Let me see. A little bag. A little purse he takes to shopping. On the wall. Next to the grimy mold. I'll have goop and more goop. Exactly. That's all there is. Is it weird that I'm kind of into this burlap, sweater, turtleneck combination that Neo's got going on right now? Not at all. It's awesome. There's a reason that just looks kind of comfortable. It looks so comfy. It looks sort of like deluxe pajamas or something.

47:17You know what I mean? Yes. But if you look at today's fashion, you can buy something like that in H&M, you know, like very sort of like worn down and holy and big and loose. You can get that, man. Totally. Walk down the street. No one cares. I get it. I mean, I wouldn't recommend the little green spot he has there. Well, no, just like, you know, weather it a bit, you know, and just be like, oh, yeah. You can just buy it weathered, man. You can buy like old metal and rock t-shirts in H&M that are already weathered. Oh, that's right. People love that. Sun... It's not dry. It's not dry. What is it? Oh, like the color is gone because of the sun. Yes. The color is gone. You can buy a t-shirt like that. Like you have that t-shirt for like 30 years. Just buy it. Pop. Put it on. Sounds amazing. Put Metallica on.

47:58Yes, of course. I think I'm going to. Excellent. That'd be a really cool kind of like low key Matrix cosplay. Yes. That would be good. Like them in the real world. No one does that. That's a perfect cosplay. Just super comfortable clothes and then just put the plug in the back of your head. Yep. Done and done. Excellent. And with that, I think that we're done with this minute unless anyone else has anything to say. No. No? Well then, thank you very much. This was the Matrix Minute. This was on Monday, wasn't it? It was on Monday, yeah. Fantastic. Have a happy Monday episode. First day of the week. Awesome. And we can't stop this without saying thank you, Scott, so much for joining us in this

48:43episode. It's been really wonderful. Yeah. Thanks for having me. You're most welcome. Yeah. And? And do your listeners. Was I supposed to say something? Yeah. Do your listeners. If you think we missed something. Some trivia or something like that. Or got something wrong. Let us know on our Facebook page where we post this episode. Every time we plop a new episode, it's just like there. And you can comment there. We would love to hear. I know. We love those things. And of course, if you'd rather not comment on Facebook, you can email us at ask at the matrixminute.1 with the episode number as a subject. And you can write it if you've got something wrong. Write to your heart's content. Or if we missed something. Yeah. Tell us that. We're wrong.

49:23And we've missed something. Say you're wrong. You're wrong, Leonidas. And thank you so much for listening. And thanks again, Scott. We'll catch you. Wait. Hey, hey. What? Scott. We told everybody. Scott, you can talk about where we can. Oh, yes. I'm an idiot. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Goodness. Well, we forgot. Scott, tell us. Yeah. Yeah. You just find me at Dueling. I mean, you plugged a bunch of my shows at the beginning. I know. You find me at DuelingGenre.com. And you can find me on Twitter and whatnot. Social media at Scott Corelli. That's all. Awesome. That's perfect. And thank you for listening. Thank you, Scott. We'll catch you on Wednesday. Bye. Bye. Thank you.