Minute 17: “I can’t do this.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:01Welcome to the Matrix Minute Podcast where we discuss the first film one minute at a time because the Matrix is... I was going to say it again. Matrix is great. I love this Matrix film. I am Phil and Trinity's costumes were made out of cheap PVC because of the budget. Hello, I'm Jake. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello, Jacob. I'm Tim and this movie was shot in Australia because it is also cheap and budget. Sorry, Australians everywhere. Yeah, it's the new, you know... They're criminals out of there. Now it's Atlanta. They shoot everything in Atlanta. Really? Every single thing in America is now shot in Atlanta.

0:43It used to be the Canadian town. What was it called? Vancouver. But then the Chinese took it over. And now it's Atlanta. All the MCU movies are shot in Atlanta. I didn't know that. That's amazing. It's just a wandering circus. Anyway, welcome to Minute 17. And this is what happens in Minute 17. Neo's not having a good day, but still attempts to make it to the scaffold, holding on to dear life on the edge of the building. A wind blusters by and the legendary Nokia cell phone flies out of his hand. We hardly knew ye. He can't do it. The agents escort him out of the building as we see Trinity observe this from her side mirror of the motorcycle, just two cars away from the agents.

1:24Smith turns to her and Trinity rides away. The minute ends as the camera moves into one of the many security screens with Neo in another cubic container with the desk as the agents enter. I thought you were going to finish the sentence. As the agents enter. Nope. Nope. That's it. Okay, so. Awesome. This is Minute 17. So, let's talk about the first thing that you listen to in this minute, and that is Don Davis' music, which makes a great presence in this scene. The Matrix Reflections motif happens, you know, when the phone falls down.

2:06Do you want to talk about Don Davis? Because I got lots to talk about Don Davis. I love Don Davis. Don Davis, he's an awesome composer. Really underrated composer. He was born in Anaheim, California in 1957. February 4th. I know a factoid about Don Davis. February 4th. So, that's the best month, obviously. Oh, he's in our month. He's in our month. The factoid is that Don Davis did not come from a musical family. That's right. That is amazing. What does that mean? I'm confused. That means his parents, his cousins, his brothers, they weren't musical. Yeah, none of them did it. And a lot of times musicians tend to... Is that not... Is that... That's rare? I don't know, but I've always kind of noticed that a lot of times when you hear musicians there's some musical influence from like relatives or whatever.

2:51That's interesting. He won two Emmy Awards. One was for the 1987 Beauty and the Beast, which is the one with Ron Perlman and Linda Hamilton. Oh. No, no, no. Ron Perlman and Linda Hamilton. Oh, wait. It's a movie. It used to be... TV show. I went through three. That's how you won an Emmy, because it was a TV show. 1995 Sequest DSV, which is not a TV show I've watched, but I know that Roy Scheiner was in it. Um, also for Broadcast Music Incorporated Film Music Awards, which is abbreviated to BMI, BMI Film Music Awards. And so he worked mostly in television in his early career. And also now as well, he's working on television because we're having a resurgence of television again. Um, so before that he was a trumpet player and he loved playing big band and jazz, which

3:35is also the same with John Williams, uh, who used to be a jazz pianist before, uh, doing big major compositions for orchestra. So it's like weird how these things come from jazz. Like these people wanted to be a big band and jazz and stuff like that. And he's really diligent, you know, he studied and practiced orchestration and he put a lot of hard work to get his scores to sound really precise and complex, which is one of the main things that he kind of emphasizes every time. He says, you know, if you want everything to be clearly read by the orchestra so they can, you know, get their beats in correct. You can't be very sloppy. You gotta be, gotta be diligent about these things. Especially with the music he wrote for this movie, which is very sort of 20th century modern

4:18kind of experimental. Yeah. Oh, here's a mathematical equation. Let's, or a interesting, uh, idea. Let's make music out of, out of that theme instead of like, you know, like a, like a melody or like, like Hans, Hansy, Hansy. Well, what I love about the music personally is that, um, I don't know if I'm correct in saying this, but at least to me it feels unconventional in the sense that, um, you know, they aren't cues. They aren't typical Hollywood cues. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's, it's very inspired by, you know, I don't know the names, but, uh, I'm sure our niece Tabitha would give us some great names of these, these, these great composers that she gave me to listen to, which is just like, oh, it's like a 20 minute orchestra piece.

5:00That's like, I wonder if I combine this, whatever going down and this going up and for like 20 minutes, it's just like these crazy sounds. It's just pretty awesome. I like that stuff. Yeah. Like, uh, yeah. Um, he worked as a conductor. So Don Davis also worked as a conductor and orchestrator for, you know, for the late Michael Kamen, who we all know who did wonderful scores like Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, The Iron Giant, Adventures of Baron Munchausen. He worked a lot with, uh, Terry Gilliam on some of the stuff, but he died in 2003. Um, so that's unfortunate. Oh, Kamen. Yes. Yeah. Um, big, he also did Last Action here and stuff like that. So anyway, diehard. Um, but he also worked for Randy Newman to be an orchestrator for stuff like Bugs Life

5:43and Toy Story. Don Davis did. Alan Silvestri and James Horner as well. So he works with all those people. And then he finally got to meet the Wachowskis and did music for Bound. Um. Did he now? Um. And then later, of course, The Matrix, which, you know, turned into The Matrix trilogy later on. And then he got to do that huge, what you call it, the Magnum Opus that he's mostly known for. Um. Um. So the music itself is hugely atonal and orchestral, but it's not traditional. You see, that's a difference in that. And also, there's a lot of polytonal segments as well going on into the score. Multiple notes. Yeah.

6:23Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's very synchronized and, uh, it makes for a very dense texture, which is, you know, it's perfect of, for how it reflects the codes in the Matrix system. You know, it's like lots of things going on at once. So I think that that really made it really fun as well. And interestingly, there are no clear, there is no clear theme in terms of a, um. There's the reflection theme. Melodic theme. There is no clear melodic theme. If you're interested. It's similar to like The Dark Knight. If you're interested in more sort of this quasi-avant-garde, you know, 20th century stuff, look up. I'm going to slaughter this guy's names. Giorgi Ligeti. It's a Hungarian composer.

7:04He did, um, some stuff for Stanley Kubrick. Uh, you know that sort of the choir in the Space Odyssey 2001 going, oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That kind of stuff, you know, it's very, it's very sort of, uh, uh, like, thematic. Like, it's, it's basically, yeah, you know, micropolyphonia, that kind of stuff, where, where it's in polyrhythms, whereas there's an idea, it's very based on a concept-based. There we go, concept-based. Which is, which is lovely for The Matrix. It fits so well. I think so, too. I think it would be really weird if there was a classical, like, you know. I think you would be so, it's a shame. But it's very classical. It's like not many synths were used, you know what I mean? I mean, a classical sort of composing, you know, like having a Neo theme.

7:44Yeah. Well, you know, they, there is a really, pronounced love theme, though. That is true. Yeah, I guess, yeah. But I think we're just, we're meaning, like, you know, not in the classic. Structure-wise, yeah. Christoph Penderecki. That's the guy I was trying to mention. Like, I listened to his stuff so often, like, back in the day. Like, it was, I love that. That's exactly what Tim's talking about. It's that, like, that, that just weird sounds and noises. And he did, he did, he didn't do stuff for, um, uh, Kubrick specifically, but he did music from his work, which is, uh, primarily in The Shining. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, uh...

8:24That's got some good stuff there. Yeah. So, Christoph Penderecki, that's the guy. I've been listening to that guy for a while. That's awesome. Not anymore, though, because I got scared. No, I'm just kidding. It is pretty freaky. It's freaky stuff. Um, anything else I wanted to say about this is that, uh, there's also big influences of his music that came from John Adams' orchestral piece called Short Ride in the Fast Machine, which is from 1986. And if you listen to it, it's just five minutes long, and you can really hear the... That kind of, um, repetition with the horns blaring and stuff like that. And, um, there's also, this is what I learned just today, aleatoric methods as well. Mm, what's that? Which is, uh, freestyling with the instruments, you know, like, you have a flurry of, like,

9:07different... It's written, but the player is able to do it in their own pace. And when they come together, it just sounds like a flurry of different instruments. We did the choir a long time ago in high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's aleatoric methods. It's actually like if you sort of try to interpret or try to copy this style of the music, it's actually pretty fun. When I was doing the little theme for... That's right. Secret information. Okay, what's this one? Oh, that's right. Tim did the intro and outro music. He did! It's all original music, folks. It's funny. It's like I could be going for years doing that kind of stuff.

9:48I love the violins, by the way. For a special episode, Tim, you should make an extended ending. Yeah, when our episode ends, I love the violins. That's really good. Very similar to this. Yeah. I think one of the... Wait, I have the keyboard right here. Hold on. This is a special thing. Wait, wait, wait. Just wait. Fill in the background. Keyboarding it up. Yes. That's cool, isn't it? That's pretty nice. It's pretty cool. That's the nature. I like that a lot. It's a nice little chord progression right there.

10:29Join us with the tones of Philip. Yeah. Okay. That's it. Okay. That's Don Davis. Wonderful. I think Matrix Reloading Revolutions are better than the first score, in my opinion. Really? I think, just like many other film scores, when you have the same composer and they do sequel music, they get better as the movie doesn't get better. Yeah, yeah. Like, for Pirates of the Caribbean, this is a famous example, because they had three weeks for Pirates of the Caribbean one to actually write a score, and Hans Zimmer was actually not even able to do it. So, he did all the themes, but he wasn't able to get credited.

11:11So, he just let Klaus Badert get credit. Oh, man, he has so many co-workers at, it used to be called Remote Control, no, it used to be called Media Ventures, now it's called Remote Control Productions, where they have a lot of assistants doing stuff. A lot of interns that later on. Yeah, so Klaus Badert. Freddy and Jimmy and Ricky and Alisa. So, for three weeks, they just hammered out the score for Pirates 1. La van with them all. I'm not a fan of that first score for Pirates. He's good at guitar. Very good. I'm sorry. But for Pirates 2 and 3, especially 3, I really enjoy that one, but the movies gradually kind of sank down. But this isn't about Pirates of the Caribbean. We haven't talked about a single damn thing in this movie.

11:54But I just wanted to mention how the Matrix 2 and 3 has a much more epic score than the first one, but the first one does have... I think the second and third. Yeah. The motifs, the themes. Delirate. Delirate. All I want to say is... No, that's not part of the score. In this minute, in the background, there is a sign for Amazing Book Bargains. That's right. Come on, guys. And there's lots of people with green suits. Amazing Book Bargains. This is the Green Suits, men. Okay, so... Yeah. There's a shot of a Nokia phone. Oh, you want to... I have a story about that, my friend. Okay. Is this... I remember it looking a lot worse.

12:34I remember it always looking great. That's a... This is one of my favorite shots. Yeah. And with the Matrix music... It's so good. Because it could have gone for the classic, just, oh, it falls. But no. Look. Okay, I think I know what it is. It's the time... Bulletin phone. ...time, like, swishing, you know? Oh, yeah. The one where it's like... It's a little bit slow, and then it goes faster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's bullet-time again. This is an alternative version of bullet-time. It's the undercrank, overcrank. I don't like that. I hate when they do that in, like... 300? Online video... No. It's like when they... Like, when speed goes from slow to fast, and then when they look... Maybe even go a little bit backwards. Like, especially when they do, like, a promo video or a music video. Oh, I hate that so much.

13:16That's like the worst... That's like... It takes any kind of editing that takes me out of the thing. It's like, I just can't stand that stuff. You know in Lord of the Rings 1, when they use the slow shutter speed for the... Oh, that was bad. Oh, that was bad. Let's not talk about that. I hate techniques like that. That was PJ slow motion. Oh, cool. For me, it has to be true slow motion or no slow motion. That's the rule. Yeah. But no, but like, you know, when they crank the shutter speed for... Gladiator? Fight scenes. No, not Gladiator. The Saving Private Ryan on the landing. That works well there. That works. But that weird slow motion... Different opinions. No, I'm going to tell you why it works. Because I think one of the main reasons is they were trying to make a subtle effect on

13:57World War II footage when people were actually filming it on the front lines. And there was actually cameramen that were filming this thing. They always had the shutter really high. And yeah. And they were trying to get that feeling of... And it's ugly. You know, that's what it makes Saving Private... We're talking about Saving Private Ryan! Wait, wait, wait, wait. What I wanted to say was I just wanted to mention that I didn't mean to say I didn't like it. I meant to say I don't like it when it's overused. Yeah. Yeah. No one likes it when it's overused. That's what I meant. Oh, we're just two overused. So I want to tell you the story about the phone. Tell us the story about the phone. Give us a story about the phone. It was a whole day of location shooting wasted. Really? Because they were trying to film it on, you know, in camera. They were trying to throw the phone in camera. Are they checking the phones down?

14:38I bet that evening... And the next day's news would be like, three people injured. They got nothing. Did you know they cost about $1,000 for that phone? Not just $1,000 for a phone. Everybody's getting paid for that whole day and nothing happened. That was probably $30,000 in phone. So guess what they did later? It's obviously blue screened in. And then they got the shot well. But otherwise, no. Also, Keanu Reeves hanging out there. That was the story, by the way. That was it? Yeah, that was my story. But also, Keanu Reeves hanging out there. That's him for real. Doing it for real. Oh, on the building. Yeah, no... He has some probably harness, right? Holding his pants. Doesn't look like it. But in any case, I mean, he did that instead of some stunt guys. That's kind of cool. Shows the dedication of Keanu Haddon for this movie.

15:20And most of the things that he's done. Also, speaking of which, how does he act so well in this film? Yes, let's talk about that, please. I would love to talk about that. Because I watched... I was watching just a little bit of this movie called Johnny Mnemonic. Mnemonic. Mnemonic. I don't know how to pronounce it. That's a hard one. And I think Keanu just, like, had a renaissance. A personal renaissance. Yeah. When he filmed The Matrix. Because Mnemonic was so... But then again, I can't say I've seen... I need to get out of the computer! I need to get online! I... Whoa! Well, look... Have you seen any movies with Keanu Reeves before The Matrix? I've seen two kinds of movies where his acting works.

16:04One is this, Matrix, slash, John Wick, slash... I'm an action hero with one of the... John Wick's post-Matrix. I'm talking about pre-Matrix. Well, pre-Matrix stuff, like, even, let's say, Speed. He does the same serious face. But would you say his acting speed is just as good as Neo? It is the same thing, pretty much. Okay, well, I haven't seen... Maybe Neo's a bit more... Or... And then you have the classic, you know, classic, like, Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, which is overreacting, but in the sense, it makes sense. Sorry, that sentence doesn't make sense. Yeah, I get it. But in the context, it makes sense. Yeah, the context. You know, it's a comedy, and everyone's overreacting. Yeah. It's like, ooh, ooh, ooh. You know, it's fine.

16:44But I think having... This is an action movie, and he does pretty much deliver sort of action lines. And he does it with sort of his character. If kind of a mixture is good, I don't think he's good at sort of conventional actor stuff. Like, if you had Keanu Reeves break down and cry because a tragedy, I don't think that would work. I just got the impression... Conventional actors are really good at that stuff, you know? Yeah. I just got the impression that Keanu took extra effort with this role. That was my impression. So I think everybody did when they read the script and they understood it because it was

17:24so... You could feel it was a passion project. Oh, definitely, yeah. Because from what I've seen, I just feel like he's trying hard to do something different from his... I mean, clearly, like you said, he's doing sort of an action role, but I don't think he's treating it like a typical action role, like Speed or something. I think he's trying to go for something else. No, definitely. But I'm just saying the nature of it. There's no... You know, there's a few scenes when he's shocked or he's a little bit smirky or he's being, you know, funny. But most of the time, it is a general sort of like an emotion that stays out there, which just kind of fits him. And I think his... The way I see Keanu Reeves anyway, so... I think he gets away a lot with going like, instead of speaking normally, he goes, yeah,

18:05where he speaks from like the throat. Like, whoa. That's how he kind of gets away with all the serious lines. Right. Okay, what'd you want to say? Me? Yeah, then she has a prepared. Oh, me. Okay, well, let's get down from this building already. Okay. So this is the refusal of the call. Well, Neo is having trouble and he can't... He can't do it. He can't go across that sort of divider, I guess. Yes. He's grabbing the divider. That green screen shot is a lot greener than the rest. That's why it's freaking me on. Which one? The phone falling. The blue screen one. The phone one that was good. It's a lot greener than the other shots. That's why it's... Ah, you're right. I see, I see.

18:45Okay, well, Neo can't do it. He's afraid. He's still... His mind is beyond like... Yeah, pooped his pants. Yeah, he's just... He thought he escaped the cave, but he's still inside the cave. Ah, yes. Indeed, indeed. And the shadows that are being cast on the cave, he believes is still reality. Now, the agents grab him. They take him. They take him downstairs. Trinity has a cool motorcycle, which is... Trinity has... And cool glasses. And cool glasses. And that shot... It's a very 90s thing. So, Trinity's observing this. So, she's been down there. I think this whole time. She's been shopping. Warming the extra seat.

19:25Shopping for bargain books. Right. I got it. And so, the significance of her mirror being in slow motion, in the reflection, and as it... And the real time is real time in the background. Yes, I love that. That is really cool. Because, like, most... I think the Matrix's theme is, like, about reflections and duality. And two worlds. The real world and the fake. Choice. I did not notice that, by the way. So, really? Tim, you didn't notice the visual or the theme? I didn't notice the visual of having everything in real time. And then the slow motion. I remember we noticed this years ago. I recognized the slow motion in the mirror, but I didn't realize that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The background's real time.

20:05Yeah. I don't know what that's all about, but I'm just... But that's a good interpretation. I'm guessing that, you know... I wonder if it's a mistake. Another thing about real worlds and... No. Fake worlds. And when you make a choice, you have to pick between one and the other. Yeah. And later on in the Matrix, Reload and Revolutions. To be honest, it's... Smith and Neo are two sides of the same. Two doors as well. My thinking was always simply that the Wachowskis wanted to do cool comic book stuff. And that too. That was basically why they did the two at different times. Oh, yeah, that's a perfect shot, yeah. Yeah, that's a comic book thing, for sure. Because when you get to do cool stuff like that in movies, people rarely do stuff like that that's like cool. That was really nice. Now, Trinity sees that Agent Smith spotted her. Why don't they go and chase her down now?

20:46They're not aware. They're not aware. Look, if they can't get Neo from the cubicle... But look, he's looking at her right there. How in the world is he going to pay attention and go, oh, woman in leather? There's that other one. Yeah, let's get her. He's too busy. It's just a motorcycle person. Yeah. Look, she's turned because she got her back. Oh, yeah, he looks. But, yeah, he does look. I don't think he cares. But he doesn't care. He's too busy. He doesn't care. He has to go interrogate. He needs the codes. Okay, okay. So, Neo's taken. He's brought into some kind of security office. And then we see the multiple monitors. Oh, yes, it's time. It is time to discuss this. Can I go with my theory? Yes. Okay, so here's the thing, right?

21:29Now, these monitors we see here, they make an appearance later on in the sequels. They are very important and as they're part of the story. But my theory is, as everyone said when the sequels came out, like, oh, look at this. The little trail. Little breadcrumbs trail. Breadcrumbs. We see things. I think it's just they use this as a visual and then they used it in the second movie. That was my theory as well. Yours too? I will agree. I'll agree with you guys. I don't think the foresight was that specific. Impossible. Because it makes sense. It's an interrogation scene. And then they were like, remember, we could use that. That's my theory as well, yeah. So, it's basically just a George Orwell. It's a cool transition.

22:09Just a George Orwell 1984 sort of something like that thing. Yeah, yeah. It's just like, it is really strange that there would be a security that has these monitors just like that, you know, hanging next to each other. So, there's a possibility they'd had this image vision for the future and they used it here. But on the other hand, it also, there's quite a few things in this first movie which are just strictly visual, not practical. I mean, yeah. So, you never know. I always try to keep room for the possibility that these are just aesthetic choices that are cool. Yeah. You never know, really. What's the official statement on this? Well, the official statement is now... The Wachowski siblings don't talk about it. Well, they don't talk about anything.

22:50But I think that's a good thing. Remember when you were listening to Lana and that, the philosopher guy's... Yeah, it was like an interview. Interview with her. Yes. And she just said, you interpret it the way you want to. Exactly. We're not going to tell you the truth. I mean, we tell some people what we think it is, but we don't want other people to... I think she was alluding to like, if they give the official answer, there won't be any more... Yeah. People won't have as much impetus to think about their own... Yeah. And I think... Interpretations. You know, what I've learned, you know, watching this movie as I grew up. Yeah. I don't think there is an official, you know, point of it. Like when I was a kid, I would think like, there is a secret one singular thought or, you

23:33know, whatever lesson in the matrix and you have to learn it, you know, you get smarter and you understand it. But the truth is, there's a lot of stuff they liked and all that stuff they liked, they put in this movie and then whatever is the outcome or the theme, it is what it is. That's what I actually love about the movie. What was made from the movie. Is that there's so many different, like you said, influences. And I think that it's not even either or, you can actually combine them. You know what I mean? That's the cool thing about it. It's like, this is a sort of film that like, there's elements of this, there's elements of that. That's what I was watching a recent interview with someone who, you know, is a professional in editing and someone who is researching that sort of practice.

24:14In film editing and video editing and how you put pictures together and how it gets interpreted by humans. And my favorite quote was that the film will have its own sort of consciousness and it will be smarter than you in the end because people will draw from it a lot of more, you know, more symbolic things than you ever even thought personally that you would even put in. This is a prime example. I think that's great. Yeah. And like people are like, oh, that's cheating. You should have, you know, have a thought behind it. But to be honest, in the creative process, a lot of times you just don't have control or, you know, an end goal with stuff.

24:54And just the nature of creation is what drives you. And in the end, you can be like, you know what, here it is what it is and have fun with it. Yep. And you also think of stuff on the fly as well. Yep. Definitely. Things already spar you. So I definitely, yeah, I wouldn't agree with like the idea that, especially if you're a director that like, you know, every, the whole movie in and out in the sense like you can explain every single thing. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. Some people, some directors are driven by that. For sure. But some directors, actually, that's what they like about making movies, that that's the process. They don't have anything in their head. They go on set that day. They talk to people, they look at the script and whatever, you know, happens, happens.

25:35And that's the movie. And that's what the, you know, the actual consciousness of the movie is. Exactly. All right. Enough philosophy. Yes. Look at the chair. It has a butt print in it because Agent Smith, he has emotions now as well. And he likes to feel. He likes comfort. But to be held by metal. Indeed. He likes comfort foods. We're going to talk about that in the next minute. So, hey, I'm Phil. Are you ready for this? No. Are you ready for more theories? Yes. Give us. Do you see this room? You see the doors? You remember Matrix 3? There's the key maker in the hallway with the doors. Oh, the back doors? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. This is one of them. Look. Okay. Yes, it is. A key maker. I forgot about that shit.

26:15Yes, it is. It's the hallway. It's the hallway from the key maker scene. Oh, Lord. It's the industrial highway. Okay. Agents come in. Also, who wants a metal table like that? Do you want a metal table like that? I don't. That's like for autopsies. Imagine winter. Oh, the shocks. Okay. I'm Phil. Thank you for listening. You can reach me on Twitter at Phil Dragic. Please go to our Facebook because I post stuff on there and I think it's great. And, you know, let's have someone say something because I love it. Please, we would love some feedback. Someone say something. We'd love good reviews on iTunes. You can't email us currently because our email is broken. Yeah. There's some troubles with the email. So, please, you know. The Matrix has us on the email. Hold on a little bit.

26:56We'll get that fixed eventually. And then you can email us. If you don't want to get spam email, oh, the message wasn't delivered, don't send us email yet. Don't email us yet. We'll let you know. We'll let you know and we'll tell you when it's ready. Okay. Join Facebook and we'll let you know when it's ready. Exactly. No, you don't have to join Facebook. You can find me on Twitter. You can find me on Facebook at Timo Mariski. On Facebook? Interesting. Bye-bye. Oh, shit. On Twitter. No, don't look at Twitter. No, too late. Too late. Bye. No.