Minute 12: “It’s the question that drives us.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00Welcome to the Matrix Minute, a podcast where we discuss the first film one minute at a time because the Matrix is everywhere, even now in this very room. Hi, I'm Phil. I love Morpheus' glasses. They're so round. They're even rounder than Neo's. Hello, I am Jake, and I always wondered, how does Morpheus keep his glasses on his nose? I was going to talk about that at some point. Go on, Tim. You know what? I'm Tim, and at one point, if you look closely, you can see a cameraman in Morpheus' glasses. It's green. We will talk about this later on. Lots of Morpheus, even though he doesn't appear in this minute at all.

0:42Who cares? Anyway. We don't know. Maybe he does have glasses. Maybe he doesn't. Muno. This is minute 12. This is minute 12. Let's go. Twelve apostles. Tell us what minute 12 has to offer. This is minute 12. Shall we get into the minute of 12? Oh, absolutely. Oh, okay. I'll do it now. Mmm, lovely. Minute 12. Trinity continues to whisper into Neo's ear why he lives alone and why night after night he sits at his computer. Like I do. She tells him that he's looking for him. Who's he? Because she was once looking for the same thing, and when he found her, he told her she wasn't looking for him, really.

1:23She was looking for an answer. It's the question that drives us, Neo. She whispers in his ear. It's the question that brought him here. What is the Matrix? She calmly tells him that the answer is out there and looking for him. And dun, dun, dun, it'll find him if he wants to. Dun, dun, dun, dun. The minute ends with a two shot of window wipers at the Metacortex office the next day once Trinity exits the frame, and Neo wakes up once more and realizes he's late for work. And we're back. And he has to go to the bathroom really bad. As everyone does when they wake up. Well, not me. Not you? That's all you can think about. No? Well, you're a freak of nature. Anyway, now we're back.

2:03What's a freak of nature? What? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what? What's the freak of nature thing? Jacob doesn't... Don't you guys poop every morning? No! We take a number one. I have to take a number one. For me, it's a number one every morning. Yeah, every morning. No, it's a coffee and then a strong number two. That's the ritual. No number one? All right. Anyway. I go number one before I go to bed. What? Wait, you drink some of the oxygen out of the air? I don't know. It's like the Native Americans used to do when they had to get up early. They had a method of drinking a lot of water before going to sleep. And then their bladder will wake them up earlier. Ooh, nice. I like that. Anyway, let's talk about this scene. Let's talk about relevant things. This scene, as I described, is just Trinity explaining things and Neo wondering what all

2:48this could be. But we get a new change of scene when we transition with a wonderful Panasonic stopwatch. I mean... Stopwatch. Alarm clock. Stopwatch. Digital alarm clock. That's correct. I want to get real here for a second. Get real. So... Trinity's being pretty vague here. Well, of course she's being honest. She's being poetic, I would say. She's being poetic. She's very being poetic. It's a bit, a little bit biblically, you know, like, oh... I like it. A little bit, you're more looking for me. But to be honest, if I was Neo, would he know what she's talking about? I mean, if... I can't remember right now. Here's the thing. But when she was hacking his computer, was she talking about the Matrix or no? Yeah, she's... The Matrix has you.

3:28Dot, dot, dot. Oh, okay. Then he's got the clue. Yes. The thing is that... Okay, we do too. Let's... Let's... I want to dissect this. Okay, let's dissect it. So Neo's a man. He's, you know, he hacks a few things. He eats some cramped and grunge. Yes. What does he know about the Matrix? I mean, what... Does he... Like, because... I mean, I don't want to spoil a bit, but later on he's quite surprised of what the Matrix is. This is pure spoilage, man. This is for people who've seen the movie. How much does... What am I? Hans Zimmer. How much does this really work? I think that Neo... Exactly. How much does he know about this? What is his idea? So, he prowls the internet. But I did read the 1996 draft and in that it gives...

4:11He goes to rotten.com. It gives more information on how there's a bunch of people who are on the internet. That's what I was about to say. There's chat groups dedicated to asking the question. Chat groups. I would think in the world there is a general curiosity to many people who are more thinkers that just start wondering and they feel an uneasiness about them in this existence that they're in. I wouldn't go that far. Because that's how... I wouldn't go that far. Really? What do you guys reckon? Is it like, okay, these guys are like conspiracy nuts and they're like, the Matrix is like an organization that's keeping us checked, man? You know what I'll say? I'll say this. Or are you actually thinking they're like, oh, they're actually having theories of this

4:54is not real. Here's what I'd say. So, that what you're talking about, Phil, I think that's true. But I think there's also the conspiracy guys who are a little bit crazy. I think there's two different kinds of groups. I would say you probably would see the agents, right? I wouldn't put Neo in the conspiracy group. I think Neo is a serious thinker and he's wondering, like you said, he's noticing things. He's questioning his existence, basically, in the Matrix. Do you think he's just depressed out of his life and he's like, there's got to be something more. No, but I feel like this is something that's inherent in the system. In the flaw. There's people who think a little bit too much outside the box that the Matrix cannot completely block. But it's true, hence why we have people who are freed from the Matrix.

5:36Because those are the people who have been looking for an answer. Because the system isn't that perfect. Yeah. And the system isn't... I wonder how it would actually feel if the Matrix was real and that such a thought could actually... Because I would think the Matrix, even how great it is, there's glitches, there's little deja vus and stuff like that. And I would assume that Matrix being a very perfect system, there's definitely imperfections that some people would notice. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Do you think that... That's what I feel. I feel like there's little patches that the machines cannot completely block. So do you think... Would you say mainly people who are questioning this stuff are finding out these clues in the

6:16physical world? Or do you think it's more of a feeling? Definitely. It's physical and it's a feeling because I always felt like the human mind is so complex that the Matrix is still incapable of completely 100% blocking them from realizing that they're probably being controlled. If only... Because I guess at the end of the day, experience in the Matrix isn't close enough to true experience that we would have in the natural world. And so there's something there. You don't have a point of reference, but I think it's like association. Let's say you are feeling uneasy. You are feeling like, as any other person would in actual real life, sometimes you're feeling

6:59down. Sometimes you're feeling like, is this everything of life? Exactly. You can go to religion or whatever. It's that feeling. And let's say you have that in the Matrix. And then let's say you have on one hand, maybe some sort of physical evidence of some weirdness of something that's uneasy. And that adds to it. And then you have like, if you're Neo, you go to these, you know, like the internet, the proto-internet, the Matrix internet. And you chat to these buddies and they're like, oh, they got the extra knowledge. You know, maybe they get some feed from some Zion people. I mean, you know, like it gets you thinking. But I don't think Neo at this point understands what it actually means. I'm pretty sure. It's just like, there is the Matrix. I think he knows. You know, like there's something that explains everything.

7:40I think he knows just as much as the audience knows at the moment. Because we have the extra advantage of knowing the setup because we watched the opening scene. We don't know what the Matrix is. But Neo didn't see that opening with... Dopening? Neo didn't see that opening with Trinity. Dopamine. When he's doping up. You know, he didn't see the whole Trinity. Yeah, he did not see that. And so we have that. So to an extent, when you watch that, your knowledge is almost just as much as Neo's is from like his whole life. Yes. So we're both on the same level. We're both learning about... Well, and who could predict? When I watched the Matrix for the first time, who in the world would predict the Matrix would actually in fact be an entire simulation?

8:22I did not. I didn't. I definitely didn't. I was a child. I couldn't even... I didn't know anyone who could predict. But let's say if the Matrix people decided to build the system in 2017... Wait, wait, wait. Who are the Matrix people? Who are the Matrix people? The machines? Clarify. The Matrix machines. Sorry. The Matrix machines. If they built the Matrix and it's not based in 1999, it's based in 2017, Neo would be on like LiveLeak watching a drone shot of those cops chasing a Trinity on the wall. It's like, look at this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She jumps over the thing. It's like, amazing. There's a Matrix. I'm thinking... And it's like the prank guys on YouTube. Today I learned. We're going to try it out. Oh, remember that? Remember that amazing Animatrix when those kids discover like the little...

9:06The glitch house. Yeah, that was cool. That's what I'm talking... That's exactly what I'm talking about. Yes, yes. That, you know... Yeah. Because that sort of craziness, that sort of supernatural-ish kind of element that's very real. I think that's where all these like, you know, people that Neo communicates with come from. Yeah. Probably. I think there's the element of all that stuff. And also the Zionist people. So, Trinity says that you're looking for him. I'm assuming that's Morpheus that he's talking about, right? Because she said she's looking for the same thing. Or the Matrix. I don't know. No, I think it was Morpheus. Because he was looking at Morpheus' computer. Yeah, his computer. He was looking at his pics. I think that's the connection where Neo is finding out about the Matrix is Morpheus.

9:50Poke. Yeah, and so she's like, it's the question, right? Yeah. The question, what is the Matrix, right? It's quite poetic. I think I like it, especially when we saw that in a previous video. It's like that whole like spiel of looking out and it's like, I know... I like the poetry because basically, think about it, if you're Neo, you have actually no clue if this is even... Well, it is associated to what he's looking for, but how does he know what Trinity knows? How does Neo know any of this stuff is like actually going to go anywhere? So basically... What do we know about Neo? You know, he may be a sad little man. I think the set design and the first few minutes that he spent in his apartment kind of explains without having to have anyone talk about it, that he's an isolation...

10:39An isolatory lonely man. Yes. Looking for something. Exactly. That's it. Also, what is the Matrix was the URL for the movie. It's gone, sadly. The promo campaign. It was like, what is the Matrix? Oh, really? What is the Matrix? We take it. Use it for a podcast. Also, back in the day, you don't forget AOL keywords. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, the transitional sound after Trinity leaves and then it goes... Yeah, perfect. Love it. It's part of the Prodigy song. But it's not. It's the alarm clock. It's not. And so Neo has been waking up for like... Hey, can we maybe reference the videos you watched on YouTube about this? Remember? We watched this? We watched a YouTube video. The False Awakening. The False Awakening sort of transitions.

11:19You know what? I completely forgot about that. That is... It's good that you brought that up. He actually... Yes, this is a YouTube video by Patrick H. Willems. Yes. And he said he was going to be guest at some point for our... So hopefully we'll have him on. That'd be awesome, Patrick. Yes. If you're listening, Patrick, the Matrix has... But anyway, his video essays, right? Were there video essays? They were. They were great. And I really loved that he was talking about this, analyzing the transitions between Neo waking up, which we'll learn later, is that it's always kind of messing with you whether these experiences Neo is having, are they dreams? Is he waking up from dreams? Mm-hmm. Or is he waking up from actual experiences? Well, Room 101, eh.

12:00Got some dreams going. Yeah. Nightmares. I mean, classically in movies, this is done, especially in horror movies, a lot. But I think it's great in the Matrix that it keeps happening and it's not actually... Oh, there's one time where it's sort of pointed to. I just like the style of it because we're following Neo and it's just interesting to see because we're kind of getting in the headspace of where Neo's coming from. Yeah. So that... I mean, definitely, like, there's, like, all the connection, like, Dream World and, you know, Alice in Wonderland. And if you connect that, you know, like, the false awakening, which is the fact when you're, like, when your dream tries to put you back in the dream self and it kind of wakes you up in a very, like, a familiar situation and that you're, like, calmed down and then you're not aware that you're in a dream, like, tricks you again.

12:42I mean, I think we talked about it on the other podcast that we had, but me and Jack, Jack, Jack, experimented with lucid dreaming and all that stuff. Yeah, you guys. One of the things that your brain tries to do to get you away from lucid dreaming and being aware that you're in a dream is a false awakening. It just kind of wakes you up and puts you in, like, your room or somewhere and you're like, oh, I'm not dreaming anymore. And I think that really is cool that it's working with the Matrix movies. Yeah, exactly. So now it's daytime. The party went pretty well, I guess. What do you think Neo went after this? Oh, here's my question for you guys. What do you guys think happened? What happened? They banged. After Neo. After Trinity. Already?

13:23Wow. That's it. That's it. After Trinity gives her speech, I always imagined that she'd kind of, like, they stand around, they're like, yep. So yeah. Look at each other. Look at each other. From across the club. And she's like, what song is this? And he's like, I don't know. I don't know. It's Prodigy. What? I think, though, that Neo... Prodigy. Trinity, I thought you were a dude. You're hot. No, Prodigy. You're not. Prodigy. I have to go. My cipher is calling. No, no. Neo's. I have work in the morning. You have a boyfriend? No. Can I get your number? My theory is that Neo left early, of course. I think Trinity left right after that.

14:04I think so, too. I think Trinity said, like, I have to go. And she just walks away. And Neo's like, wait. And she's like, I have to go. And he opens. Wait, I have to call my friends. And he rushes over to the exit, you know, to the exit of the bar. And he opens the door. She's gone. Yeah. I think that's why something like that happened. There you go. Maybe she said a more of that politic stuff. She, like, talked to him for a long time. He went into a trance. Have a cig. Yeah. Let me buy a drink. And they're smoking. And they're talking about it. So what do you think life's about? Well, yeah. That sounds plausible. So he wakes up. Done. He's late for work. No, maybe they discussed hacking IRSD bases. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Exactly. She's like, so how did you do it?

14:45And she's like, okay, here it is. That's a long story. I went to the iris.com. And I hacked it. Dot gov. Anyway. Dot gov. I wanted to say that. Dot gov. Well, and that's why he was late. That's why he was late. Because they were talking too much about. They were talking intricacies of hacking IRSD. About hacking IRSD. And he was like, oh, fascinating. So now I'm thinking about this. What happened? Did you think the Wachowskis thought about this? Or it was always like, dream. Here's my opinion. That's it. That's all we need to know. Here's my opinion. My opinion is that these kinds of scenes, there's even no reason to think about what happened next. Because it's just, who cares? It's part of the story. Like, you just go on. Yeah. What about the 1996? Yeah. Does that reveal secrets?

15:25Oh, I don't know. I didn't check that for a long time. Does it go for longer? Oh, boy. You really want me to, do you want to stop and wait until I read it and then I can tell you or what? I'm going to have to. Maybe. I want to know if there's more. Like, did it talk about the IRS or what? Okay. You asked for it. I did. Shouldn't it be, shouldn't it be like, it shouldn't be the IRS. It should be like something else in the Matrix world. It should be like, you know, like, you know, everything is called. Oh, like the. Like, you know how later. The Zion mainframes. No, what was it? Not Zion. Like, you know how in this movie. The access keys to the Zion. We'll see later. There'll be a phone booth. Well, there you go. Trinity says, you know, Neo goes, do you want to go somewhere and talk? And she goes, no, it's safe here.

16:06And I don't have much time. Told you. Boom. I got it. Exactly. She's like, that's all I can hear. I just going to tickle your, tickle your imagination and piss off. Yep. I knew it. So this is the 1996 script. So this is a very early version. So. Yep. I knew it. I mean, but that's what I want to know. Like, did they ever thought about it? Or like the cut was always, you know, in the picture. Sounds like it was always like that. It was like a normal, like, end to a scene. Yeah. I don't think, what else would you do? There's no point. Is there anything else? Just look at each other a bit. It's like, for 30 minutes. She turns and he watches her melt into the shifting wall of bodies. A sound rises steadily, growing out of the music, pressing in on Neo until it is all he

16:47can hear as we cut to Neo's apartment. That actually wouldn't have been bad. She just walks away. That would have been cool. She's like, with her hands going like waves. Ooh, the matrix. Ooh. I wanted to talk about the building real quick. I'm a guy. So, uh. Or no, this is how it actually ended. He goes, hey, Choi, can I, uh, get a ride home? I don't know, man. Come on. Parking. There's no hacking next week. No, no, no, no, no. Here's the best one. Guys, guys, here's the best. She looks at Neo and she's like, do you know if there's a phone around here somewhere? Uh. I have to make a phone call. Yeah. That's like the super.

17:29And then they wait until the strobe lights hit in and then pooh. She disappeared. Weird. Yeah. Whoa. Can I see any more tidbits? Yes, there is. Um, the building, the exterior shot, the Metacortex building. Ah, yes. Um. Should we save that for the, for the next one though? No, we have this whole, we have the whole establishing shot in this, in this minute. We do? Let me see. Yes. Check it out. Let me see this. I don't believe you. So, um, while you're looking at this, uh, the name of the company for which Neo works is called Metacortex. The roots of this word are meta, which according to Webster's means going beyond or higher, transcending, and cortex, which is the outer layer, the boundary of gray matter surrounding the brain.

18:12Thus, Metacortex is transcending the boundaries of the brain, which is precisely what Neo proceeds to do. That's cool. That's pretty cool. And the Metacortex building is wonderfully played by the Met Center on Margaret Street and Carrington Street in Sydney. Oh, nice. And, uh, there's a great guy who actually took photos of many locations of the Matrix. Um, I will put the link somewhere on Facebook, I guess. Um, and he took some nice photos. It's from 10 years ago, but still checks out. That sounds neat. Is the Metacortex put in there practical or CGI? The little logo. Definitely CGI. CGI. CGI. Yeah. Because if you look at it, it's like, there's a few buildings that they also changed, um, that don't exist in Sydney.

18:57But, um, there's a definitely, I'm, I could bet my money that they didn't do that practically because I feel like it would be way cheaper for a very small standstill shot to just, uh. Yeah, it doesn't make much economical sense. That's a pretty cool looking building. I don't think I've ever paid attention to establishing shots. Well, if you're ever in Sydney, like our friend, uh, uh. Isn't it supposed to also look like a spinal cord? Yeah, it does look like a spinal cord. It does look like a little connection. I think that's why they chose it because it looks, it has symbolism to it. Um, and then, uh, if you look at the close-up of the window cleaners, uh, wiping the, the soap off of the, uh, the glass, um, it looks a lot like the Matrix code. And I just wanted to mention, I think the window, I think the window cleaners are going to be in the next minute, but just in case they're not, I'm just going to say that the,

19:42Is that the Sears star? They're going to be, they're going to be stars. Yeah, there, there, there, there was a false trivia circling around, uh, like IMDB and so on and so forth where, um, people thought it was the Wachowskis cameo. Ah, false trivia. Yeah. It's actually, um. It's because of the hats. To other people that I will mention in the next episode. Ooh. They look like studs. Look at the one on the right. If you looked, if you looked at Mr. Reinhardt's office, which is the boss that Neil works for, you can see a glorious panorama of Chicago. Chicago. That's what I was going to say. The Sears tower is right on the left. The city of Chicago. Look at that. Chicago. Love it. Love it. And Neil was like, where's that? I don't know. I've never been outside the city.

20:23I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Oh yeah. Doesn't the Matrix like end? Yeah. Yeah. Outside of Chicago. There's a, there's a couple of city phone books too. So it's again, city police. Let's talk about just for a second. City phone books are amazing. We find them throughout the film. Yeah. They're all over the place. It's a city phone book. I love them. It just makes you wonder. Do they exist still? What? Phone books? Yeah. Like, did it make them? Probably. I think so. There's still a lot of old people who don't use the internet. Something's got to hold the door. Yeah. And that about is it. Minute 12. Did someone rip a phone book once? Like, did someone rip a phone book? Like a really thick phone book? Isn't there some kind of way, some secret way to rip a phone book?

21:04Anyway, sorry. Also, yeah, Neil's looking at the, at the window washers with the code looking, you know, Matrix code looking soap. Yeah. Cool. It's like. And he's talking to an agent. Look. It's Agent Smith. That's what I was going to talk about in the next episode. We can talk about it in the next episode. Ooh. Little. Is that a ViewSonic monitor? I was going to say, I think that. Is it a ViewSonic? I don't know. Maybe. When I first watched this, I think I was confused for a second. I thought maybe the agent was going to be there. Yeah. Yeah. We are everywhere, Neil. Okay. Well, thank you for listening. I think this is our longest episode. Put it down, Neil. Put it down. Put it down. Neil. I said, no more late. You're always late. Why are you late, Neil? Why? I said, no.

21:44You're coming here at 9.18. Neil. All right. That about covers episode 12. Please go to the Facebook, which is The Matrix Minute, if you search for it on Facebook. And give us a like. And just follow this thing. Pop on over on iTunes if you want. Pictures that I am really trying to find some stuff that people haven't seen. You know, I'm trying to find something funny, something obscure. Entertaining. Based on the first nature of the film. I haven't seen any of those things you posted, so it's pretty cool. Yeah. Awesome. I have not. I mean, like, I didn't look at it. Sorry. I just never seen it before. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, good, good, good, good, good. And please go to our iTunes.

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23:06Hey. At JakeDragas on Twitter. At Twitter. At Twitter. You may follow me on Timo Meyerski at Twitter. Viva M. Titta. You were high, but that doesn't mean you're not going to be fired. Okay. Come on! No plan