Minute 116: “He’s beginning to believe.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00Hello, welcome to the Matrix Minute, where we talk about the Matrix one minute at a time. My name is Phil. I'm going to reveal the secret reference is... Hello, welcome to Skype call testing services. Please record your message... At the babe. Or is it at the tone? At the tone. At the tone. And then it's like, beep! And it's like, test, test, one, two, three, one. Please record your message at the tone. End of message. Is it working? I always do tests for Skype. Well, I used to do this. I do tests like, I would be like, one, two, three, four, one. And then like, one, two, three, four. And then I get close to the microphone to see the difference.

0:42You're funny. You're very funny. See the differences. Anyway, Drew's back. Hey! Hey, Drew! Welcome back. Thank you. Third time's the charm. Yeah, third time's the charm. And unfortunately, our good cousin and partner in crime, Tim, is gone. Got shot by the natives. Yes. That's so sad. What is that? What? Anyway. He got shot by the measles. No, no, no. No, he didn't get shot. No one got shot. He is feeling. Well, someone got shot, but no one that we know. Correct. That is factually accurate. Which is kind of a sad fact, if you think about it. Well, I thought we were talking about the Matrix film. No, no, no. We're talking about that Tim is gone. Yes.

1:22This episode, because he's feeling sick. Get well, Tim. Everybody, write in the comments. Get well, Tim. Please, send him. Leave us five-star reviews. Get well, Tim. In Tim's name. That's right. Go to iTunes. Honor Tim. Recommend the podcast to a friend and say, get well, Tim. And just go open their phone. Get in the podcast app. And also, plus, when you give ratings, basically you're expediting Tim's healing process. Yeah. And he's going to get better faster. Remember when Peter Pan said, clap with all your might for Tinkerbell to get better? It's just like the most manipulative marketing.

2:02It's also like how Facebook likes to generate water. It's the same principle. Facebook likes generate water for starving African children. Yes. And it's true. You just hit like and it works. Yeah. And also changing your profile pic to have like a French flag and stuff helps the situation. That's right. Very much. It works. So the same principle, just go on iTunes and- Get well, Tim. Put five stars and he'll be back up by Monday and he'll be feeling great. Yeah. If you're on Twitter, hashtag get well, Tim. Yes, please. Get well, Tim. It's already trending. Wow. That was fast. That's awesome. Great. Especially since we got this on Friday and it's a live show. It is, yeah. Coming at you live. So we have another minute this day.

2:44Minute 116, I believe. Really? I didn't think about that. I know. I know so. I know. And this minute 116, we're still in the subway, still fighting Agent Smith, at least Neo is, for all of us, for mankind. But also for the- Is he fighting for mankind? Yeah. Also for his self-confidence. He's boosting his self-confidence. Yeah. That's one way to boost your self-confidence. He's becoming more confident and he's getting experience. So on his resume, he can say, fought Agent Smith. Yeah. And almost won. Exactly. And then they'll ask him, like, so what are your strengths?

3:28I fought Agent Smith. Did a few hit points. I did. You did a lot of crab walking. Crab walking. That's in his skills section down below. Skills. Crab walking. Yeah. Crab walking while holding two Uzis. Other skills include asking a lot of one-word questions. Mm-hmm. He's a good question asker. Yeah. If you need- Concealed carry. Yeah. If you're too confident in a certain concept, Neo will be there to go, why? What? How come? What? Where? When? By the way, what are the parts of speech for that? What? Where? When? I guess question words would be correct. Anyway, um, tell us, Phil.

4:09Yes. What are we seeing in this part? Getting into with Minute 116? And what will our dear listener, hello, dear listener, you will now hear what this minute is about. You will now hear. Smith beats down Neo, his mouth oozing blood, but Neo rises back up, and they fight even more. He headbutts him, but Smith once again beats him down. That was a funny voice. You should do the whole podcast in that voice. Yes. That's right. Don Davis' music is back. Yeah. So is the cable sucking. He got really, uh... All right.

4:50Well, we're going to have to be really specific here. Okay, so we have a lot to talk about in this minute, surprisingly. Oh, yeah. That's right, Jake, we do. Welcome to the Matrix Minute, where we attempt to describe what we see with our two eyeballs. Because there's basically no dialogue. In fact, there is no dialogue. There's no other way for you to know what's happening other than for us to describe it. That's right. Precisely. Uh, there's just one line. What is it? Trinity is saying, Jesus, he's killing him. Okay, we'll get to that, though. But Jesus did not kill anyone. That is true. He did not. She's just explaining to Jesus what he's doing to you. You know, Jesus, comma.

5:31Yeah. Okay, so the first thing we can talk about... And then, and then, and then, and then, actually, it's Jesus. I'm sorry, that's... That's true, yeah. Yes, uh... Could be. I cleaned the Nebuchadnezzar. Okay, so ready for this? The first shot we can talk about is this zoom that happens. Yes. This rapid zoom. Yes. Agent Smith is throwing a punch, and he finished punching. And then he takes his other arm, swings it right up to his chest, and this camera zooms. There's a really big... That's the sound of the zoom. That's the zoom. Yeah, so it's similar.

6:11You know, I bet Noel remember this, but remember that time when Neo and Trinity were on the roof fighting military-looking men? Yes. There was this one time where he... No, there wasn't. Yes, there was a zoom in to one of the military men. 70s style, just like this. Yes, there was. We talked about that, yeah. I remember that. It's a... There's a fuse... What's the technical term? A rack zoom. No, it's a... Like a... It's like a rack zoom or something like that? Yeah, a whip zoom. Whip zoom. It's interesting because I feel like those are really common in sort of the Hong Kong style movies, but here it actually looks artsy because it's not happening very often, and so it's

6:54more of like a contrasting. I think it looks really nice. Yeah, especially that one. Yeah, I'd agree as well. With the Smith punch there. And he does it with such... Yeah, you're absolutely right about the zooms being prominent in Hong Kong films, especially since most of these films, I might be wrong, but they came out in the early 70s and late 70s where zooming was a big thing, not just in Eastern films, but in Western films. And I'm not talking about the genre I'm talking about. Yeah. And the use here is excellent because you really can feel the impact in the motion blur of the zoom as well. It really makes that... It has almost kind of a comic book feel where the perimeter of the image gets blurred because

7:39of the motion. So it really helps you feel the impact. It makes it look like action lines, you know, in comics and anime. It's funny because I talked about this before on the podcast, but they could have actually gone even further with these visual ideas with like zooming in and stuff like that to make it feel more like a comic book. But surprisingly, it's pretty... Yeah. Very restrained. I think it could have been more like Scott Pilgrim and it's not. Yeah, it's not. Because I think that's an example of where they dialed it up to 11 on the comic book graphic novel kind of approach to filmmaking. Exactly. And I wonder, like, I think I talked about this as well, is that I think that for The Matrix,

8:22it ended up being a good thing that they didn't go up to 11 in this case, because now you can really watch the movie and you get the flavors that they were kind of thinking of, but it's not purely about those flavors. Right. And I think that's what's going to make The Matrix last a lot longer. And I think it's similar to what we were talking about last week or what you were talking about last week with the costuming, where when you pick kind of timeless stuff and then season it with things that are more flavored, as opposed to trying to just like go all out in one direction where it's going to end up looking dated. Yeah. By picking more timeless costumes, by picking a more timeless soundtrack and picking a more timeless general like shooting style with additional things sprinkled in like bullet-time or kind of like this

9:08where they're not the traditional style, that makes those shots really stand out and look excellent. Yeah. But they're within that bed where you feel familiar and you feel like you can kind of trust this movie over time. So I think they did a really good job balancing that because that can be really tough. Absolutely. It is super tough. And I think that's one of the hardest things to get down. It's true. It's one of the hardest things. But I feel like something like this is a product of your personal, your person. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. It's coming out of the Wachowskis. Yes. It's all their influences. And, you know, like Lana Wachowski once said that this was everything they ever had an

9:52idea for put into one movie. Yeah. And I think that's probably why it turned out this way. So Neo... Except for Ectokid. Ectokid was a comic that they made before The Matrix. And they said that Ectokid was the Rosetta Stone of all the other movies they made. So if you watch some of... If you read some of their Ectokid comics, you can actually see a lot of Matrix. You can see a lot of... Not V-Front. They didn't direct that one. But like World Atlas. No, Scott. What is it called? Not World Atlas. Cloud Atlas. World Atlas. The World Atlas. What a great, exciting film that sounds like. Rand McNally's World Atlas.

10:32Thank you. I wanted to say, yeah, exactly. And... New. New and, you know, revised. Updated for 2018. With new, like, you know, hot spots. Do you remember that? Like software? Not just software. Print. Yes. Remember you'd go into the gas station and buy a map and you'd be like, ooh, this is a 2006. And they'll still do that with like tourist guides for like, oh, Walt Disney. Crazy. Get the book. Over $400 in value in combined. It's too bad Tim isn't here, but he would like to talk about this. But you know the brand Lonely Planet? Oh, yeah. I've heard negative things about that. Yes, they make those guide books for traveling.

11:13I watched someone on YouTube. It was Katie and Eric. Katie and Eric. They're these two. It's a couple who travels and they travel videos. And they were saying how, like, don't trust Lonely Planet because it's so out of date. Like the information. Like it'll say like, go in this cafe on the street. And then you go there. It's like a pet shop. Food poisoning. But it's so weird. I saw people buy those books. Like I would never, ever buy a travel book unless it's like a general, like about the country or something like that. Yeah. Something that's not going to change. Yeah. Anyway, back to the minute we were talking about how the whole movie feels like it's timeless and so on and so forth. And I felt, and I wanted to just say that it came from them and their influences and that

11:54kind of vision that they had. That's what, that's how you get these kinds of movies. It's something that's personal and big and it's all your aspirations that you want to see in a film come together. And if you're talented enough and if you're putting the work into it and you keep that vision alive, that's how you get. Avatar. Avatar. The 2009 spectacle. Oh no, please. I thought you were talking about Avatar, The Last Airbender. The Phenomenon by, The Phenomenon by M. Night Shyamalan. Brian Kanieczko. Oh, that one. Oh no. Yeah, yeah. No, I wanted to say really quick about that, what you're talking about is that that's what I love most about like creativity and making things is that whatever you do and whatever

12:40kind of... I do it for you. Thank you. Whatever you do in a creative sense in terms of art ultimately is going to be an expression of yourself. And that's what I love. And it's crazy because it goes, it can be for movies, it can be for music, it can be for writing. And I think that's really amazing. Yeah. As long as you are lucky enough to get the movie made as well. Well, then I think that's where a lot of people have turned towards making short films for YouTube or that kind of thing where you don't have to get greenlit as much. You can find other ways to monetize. People are just trying to find their way around the production system because otherwise it's such a strange gatekeeper system where it's really exclusive and not based on merit.

13:25And so people are, I think right now, still searching for ways around it. Yep. I agree. So true. I think it's pretty good though. What? Like the environment right now for making like small movies and getting distribution for them and stuff like that. Yeah. It's still always changing, which is nice. So Neo gets sucked by the string gods again. They're like, come here. No, you don't. And they suck him into this, no, onto the floor. Yeah, onto the floor. And after that punch with the zoom in. And then Neo is slid across the floor, the dusty, dusty floor. Also great. Also great. That's not a realistic thing you'd see, you know, in movies.

14:07That's true. And he's, and he's, and he's clenched up like a spider and then goes, and pukes out blood. And I, and then it cuts back to the real world where he, where he pukes out blood and spits out blood in the real world. And I've always had a problem with real world blood, especially in this color grading of this movie, like the way that it's color graded for this, you know, Blu-ray and the DVD that happened beforehand. It's pink. It's pinkish. I never liked it. I'm sorry. Yeah. You better be sorry. What do you think about the blood, Drew? I do think it's, it's the wrong general hue. It's very light as well.

14:48I think for it to be. Yeah. So I think it would have to be darker if it's going to be that purple. Right. Because I think it's leaning almost too far into like magenta or like lipstick as opposed to blood. There was this amazing video that we'll link from a visual, practical visual effects artist named Frank. Frank. Ippolito? Yes. And he sometimes collaborates with a YouTube channel called Tested. Yeah, I know that channel. Yes. And he. That's like a spinoff from Mythbusters, I think. Kind of. It's, well, I think it started before.

15:30I mean, it started before Adam joined Adam. Savage. Savage. Before he joined them. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that Frank Ippolito, I think has his own channel. Makeup artist. And he has a video, which is very interesting. Very interesting. Very interesting. Where he talks about different kinds of fake blood. And he goes through a bunch of brands and a bunch of different like chemicals. Oh, interesting. So it's like not just like homemade fake blood, but like different kinds of like fake blood products that you can buy that are intended to be fake blood. Yes. And it's amazing because there's so many differences. I didn't know this. Me either. I thought there was like one or two kinds, but there's like. And how they dry as well. Yeah, that's also a big issue. And, you know, is it more pinkish?

16:10Is it more reddish? Sometimes they're like really brown. They look like. So and he puts them all on a like little ramp and then here's the viscosity. Yes. That's exactly what he does. Exactly. Really? It's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool because it's amazing. And when you watch the video, like that's my favorite blood. That looks totally real. So. I messaged him on Facebook and he sent me that link to the video. You should message him. Hey, nice blood. Hey, nice blood there. Yeah. And then you wrote. I might have to. Then you wrote PS. Use that blood. Anyway. I love helicopters. Yeah. I love helicopters. It's my early. I don't know if that. That was a. One of my first internet posts was some comment on a helicopter forum, I think.

16:52Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But they had like animated GIFs of helicopters and planes and stuff. And I don't know if that's still. I'm sure you can still find it on Google. You signed the guest book, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. It was the guest book. I was the guest. From the helicopter website. I was the guest. You're a guest and you sign the guest book and it's magical. It has to be done. How old were you? Like 13, 12? I don't know. What was it called? Let's find the guest book. Like the helicopter page or something? Yeah. You guys. I mean, well, you can keep moving on, but I'll find the guest book and we can bring it back. It's just a classic. It's a classic thing. So Trinity says that Smith is really killing the guy and she's looking up at the vitals monitor.

17:35Yeah. And she rips some cloth. Yeah. She's really into that. Yeah. She's like. It's a little remainder of, you know, like dozer's shirt or something. And they just took out, took the clothes off of them because that's too valuable. I thought it was just a handkerchief. I'm joking. I'm joking. I was being heartless and cruel. It's okay. And then she comes, she, she wipes Neo's bloody mouth. And Agent Smith towers over him in the next shot. And he's in a closeup. He's like, and Neo is looking up at him. You know, he's on the floor and his hands are, he's like lifting himself up a little bit, but he's still lying down and he's in pain and he looks up and looks down. And then Neo and then Smith is staring at him, but Neo gets up and, and then we have cutbacks

18:18to, um, uh, to Smith and his, uh, smile, his grin, his, uh, grimace fading away. And then we have the cool, cool shot. And this great moment where Neo still doesn't give up. He's getting beaten up, but he's there and he does this great move. And you know, where he, you know, he does this fighting pose and all this, uh, It's like he's semi flexing. Yeah. All this, all this dust comes down from him. You know, they actually put the, you know, makeup artists put the dust on him. And then, and then when he does that move, you know, there's a nice imprint of, of, of,

19:01of power, you know, and the music by Don Davis, you know, you have the matrix, uh, that motif he goes, you know, I was wondering with the music, what would this look like if it didn't have a soundtrack under it? I can imagine this would be one of the funniest, just like natural fully. Okay. Challenge accepted. I'm doing that now. So make the clip. I will. This whole scene just with a natural audio, this is no longer the, uh, climax moment where it's like the tides have turned. All of a sudden it's like, what? It turns into like a comedic.

19:42He gets up. Or if you had like a Spanish bullfighting. The worst. Anyway, and then it is, but, but, but, but speaking of which, like that, like the turning point or something like the dramatic, you know, hero making a comeback and stuff. It's so true. If it doesn't have music, like it brings the level so down, it's like so down to earth that it's like, it makes you feel almost bad. It's almost like, it's almost like, wow, this is too real. It's kind of slightly painful. Like you're coming back and it's like, well, who knows what'll happen? The music's not there to help you. Where it feels like, oh no, don't do it.

20:22Yeah. But with the music, it's like, ah, yes. Yes. Yeah. But it's funny because for me, I, I will always say this and I've said this many times. Maybe I haven't, maybe I just thought it myself and I never mentioned it. But for me, I always consider a classical kind of movie score to be the most overzealous audience member where he's the loudest and he's telling, cause he's seen this movie 500 times and he, and he knows what's going to happen. So when Neo, when Neo does the thing, he's like, yes. Do you see that? It's so cool. Did it, did it? Right. Right. And that's, and you know, it's also something that can be translated as, um, what goes in,

21:03what, what's going on, uh, between the two characters in the scene and how they're thinking, you know, like this is what they're feeling. This is the, this is the kind of tone that's being felt by the characters in the, in the situation because it's all about drama. Drama. Yeah. And I think, I think, um, maybe this is just like a weird analogy, but I think it's, you've got the denotation, like you're showing what's happening, but then you also have the, the connotation, which is like, but what does that imply with the music where the music is kind of like a subtext to the overarching scene as a whole, where you see like, here are the characters, you know, they're in here fighting, but the subtext is like, well, who do we want

21:43to win? Who do we, you know, like those are the kinds of things that the music can tell you. It's really getting like a sort of, um, magical layer that's sort of like letting you sort of see and read into the movie, what the movie is, or like I said, the characters or the scene wants to do or emote or whatever. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, and then you, the, the camera dollies in, it goes in from, I think it zooms in. I don't, I'm not sure. Yeah. It zooms in a little bit. Does it zoom in? Can I see that shot again? Oh, the, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. No, it just dollies in. It's dollying. Yeah. And he just. Wait, what's the difference? What do you mean the background is getting blurrier? No, it doesn't matter. It's the camera pushing into his face. Well, if the background's getting blurrier, it is not a zoom.

22:26Oh. That's how you can tell, right? Because if you're zooming, you're basically just essentially cropping what the sensor is seeing. Right. Right. But optical zoom, doesn't that get you more blur or no? Yeah. Okay. Look. Not in the same way. Not bokeh. No. Okay. Okay. So it's just. It's pixelation. It's just doling in. It's doling in the mind. You know. Or digital zoom. Digital zoom gives you a pixelation. Digital zoom. Optical. Do you guys remember? Optical zoom just like basically crops into the picture that is exposed on film. Let's take a trip down memory lane. Okay. That's a time when digital zoom was like a marketed thing.

23:08Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you remember that? 4X optical zoom, 300X digital zoom. You get one pixel. It's so bad. We had a JVC mini DV camera in the late 90s and early 2000s, and it was exactly that. You were like, times 400 digital zoom. I remember being in the Fry's Electronics video cam, like camcorder aisle, and they're like, look at the did. But it's like only. It's like, sure. We've got 4X optical zoom, but have you seen 20X digital zoom? And at that point, you have so few pixels left. Horrendous. Even if you're at HD. And my favorite was when you could tell when it switched.

23:50Like, you'd see the optical zoom. It's like, oh, this is great. The quality is great. And we're zooming in. And then suddenly it's like, click. And it's like, wah. And then you just. Yeah. And you realize just how grainy that picture really was to begin with. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. That was my trip down memory lane. Now let's come back. Okay. I'm, upon further analysis, upon further analysis here, I think that that dolly in was both a dolly in and a slight little bit of zoom. Because if you're moving the camera like that, and it's such a wide angle, could you go back to the shot again of Neo, please? Yeah, but I'm tired of it already. Shut up. It's really wide. It's like, it's going at 24. Or something like that. Millimeter.

24:30In an official cinematography talk. And then it's going to, and then once it dollies in, there has to be a little bit. It's probably like a 50 or. Yeah. It looks like a little bit of zoom is going on. Because otherwise it would have been a lot wider than it would be if it's zoom. Yeah. If dolly didn't like that. There's no real distortion if you look at his body. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was saying. Like his hand doing that. And then he does the echo of Morpheus's, you know, come on, let's do this. Mm-hmm. Hand gesture. What is that gesture even called? I don't even know. Come at me, bro. Yeah. That was pretty much. Come at me, bro. It is the come at me.

25:10Yeah, come at me. But I just added the bro for comedic relief. And then we see, you know, Smith is angry and then they fight again. There's more fighting, lots of wonderful choreography. Neo is a kicker, man. He keeps kicking. Like we talked about before, which is weird because like you said, Keanu Reeves had that spinal injury. Yes, he never really trained enough for kicking. A lot of face punching as well in this scene. Or in this minute, rather. Three headshots. My favorite moment is there's this moment where Neo tries to punch Smith in the face and he misses. Or he gets caught, rather. And so he's got like, Smith has his fist between, or just in his right hand. And then Neo goes, dink, and just flicks him, like opens his hand up and pokes his Adam's

25:54apple with his fingers. I think this is the moment. This is the move, like at least, okay, we're not well versed in these Hong Kong movies, so this could be a trick from a Hong Kong film. But at least in like Western movies, like I've never seen this and I've never seen it again. Yeah. Yeah. Where, like you said, his fist comes up like a couple of like, maybe two inches away from his chin, right? Not enough to punch him, but so he does a little flick under his chin. It's like. With his fingers. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was just a fist and then he goes. And then. It's just, it's funny though. Like. It's just like it's Adam's apple. And Smith goes. Like, it was like, oh no. What's a powerful one?

26:35Because these guys are. Yeah. My favorite is like, how powerful do your fingers have to be? These are super powerful. In real life, he would just tickle him a little bit. If you think about the physics, which I would encourage you not to do. The, the mass of your fingers is so low that in order to have a strong force, the speed at which they would have to be traveling. Yes, the speed, yeah. Which we can see, by the way, in the frame. You know, it's just like, okay, well, I guess we know exactly what that force is. It's just so good. Yeah. But other, but other than that, like this was a move that we always remembered. Yeah. Yeah. Did we ever, did we ever imitate this, Jacob, in any of our movies that we made? Probably not. Probably, but I don't think so.

27:15I think. A lot of flicking. Just flicking in the throat. But it's also, it's also another echo from what we had with Morpheus training with Neo in the dojo. And both Morpheus and Neo kind of, they didn't punch each other. They were just like centimeters away from each other's faces when they were fighting. And this one, you know, Smith holds him, holds his fist back, but then he just does a little flick and it's great. And I remember, I remember very vividly in 2001, we were watching this film from, you know, for the first time that, you know, either my dad or our cousin Stan, we just kind of made a laugh like, oh, oh, it's so cool. You know? Yeah, I am.

27:56Watching through this minute, Neo is so dusty. He's just like poofing dust. Yeah, Mr. Dust. Through the whole fight. Because that one like romp in the dust after he got punched at the beginning of the minute. He just collected so much dust. Everything from here on out is just like, he's a dust bunny. Well, you know, I think this was a Wachowski select then, you know? I think that they, the maker, they really wanted that dust to keep flying off of Neo. Because I think it's supposed to add to like the coolness factor. Yeah. I wonder why that was like on set, like more dust. Yes. I bet. It's like dust them up. Speaking of being on set and stuff like that, they filmed this for about two or I think almost

28:36three weeks. They were just here in this rusty old, you know, set in this wheat factory, abandoned wheat factory in. Three weeks, really? Australia. That's a lot of shooting. There's a lot of like fight scenes are always really slow and you just have to, you know, keep shooting a lot of stuff and choreography has to be involved and all the shots are complicated because it's not just people standing and talking. So there's always movement that has to be done with not just the guys fighting, but with maybe the lighting has to be moved at certain points when they're moving around and the camera has to be going, you know, and synchronizing with them. Yeah. Do you know what I always wondered is, you know how in films like this, they train in advance

29:17like months before shooting, right? At least in this case. In this case was special, yeah. Yeah. And it's weird because like, I wonder, you know, first of all, they're training so hard and memorizing these moves. So clearly when they come on set, I always wonder like, you must be really nervous because I mean, you know, you spent all that time training. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. And you now have to make it count because it's going to be shot and printed to film forever. So I always wonder what that was like, you know? Well, it's lots of Keanu Reeves. I told you like behind the scenes. Oh, that sucked. Yeah. Self-loving. Do it again. Yeah. But, you know, it's because, it's not because he hates himself as much. It's just because he wanted to get the best performance.

30:00It's very dedicated. Yeah. Because like, you know, you have to do it super well. You have to give it your all. Yes. In order to make it look convincing. It will show on screen. It will show on screen. Yeah. It's like, yeah. Ha. I think it's good enough. And let me just mention real quick, in this fight scene and in every fight scene in The Matrix, people who are making films now, who aren't doing them, you know, in the film industry and, you know, you want to do fight scenes, please, please think of your shutter speeds. Because I am, you know, there's this urban legend. I don't want to say urban legend, but like, there's this misconstruction.

30:47Misconception. Misconception. There you go. There's this misconception that if you crank up the shutter and therefore, you know, all the frames will be crispy and clear and there won't be any motion blur, that the fight scenes will be better and look more intense. Watch The Matrix because the shutter is not in any way like over cranked. So I really want to blame Saving Private Ryan for that. Yeah. Yeah. They started the trend. Yeah. And I understand why Saving Private Ryan did it because a lot of the footage at that time, the shutter speed was just like insanely high just because of the crappy cameras they had with them. Yeah. I did want to mention that for Saving Private Ryan, they did.

31:28I remember reading this at one point. They wanted to match. They wanted to give it that World War II people who were filming on D-Day. Black and white. Yeah. They wanted to get that kind of feel. So that's why they put that shutter up because they wanted it. But then it's sort of like one of those things where like, oh, Matrix is doing green. We should all do green. Saving Private Ryan is doing high shutter speeds for their intense scenes. We should do high shutter speeds for intense scenes. And they do it all the time. As opposed to thinking about like, why were they doing that? What was the, yeah, it's like, no, this is a hard and fast rule now. This is the only way you do fight scenes, high shutter speed. And put it in the can. And Gladiator did the same thing as well. Yeah, yeah. And the funny thing is that it like stayed a trend for a long. Yeah. I remember overhearing some people that are friends of mine that are, they want to do

32:12films or are doing films. And they're like, oh yeah, it's got to be so cool if you put the shutter speed up. And it's like, no. Well, do you know what that reminds me of? I remember back in the day. I mean, it depends. Honestly, it's all subjective. But for me, this stuff is beautiful. It's gliding. The motion blurs give an effect of flow. And it makes it feel like majestic and holds your, you know, it's like, it's just. Hold your hand. Hold your hand. It makes you, it just makes you, your eye, it's more pleasing to the eye to be able to see this. Yeah. Yeah. I think, so my thing, sorry, Jake, I'll let you finish after this. Sorry. Um, most motion blur emphasizes motion and higher shutter speed.

32:54Yeah. And so it's, it's, what are we, what am I supposed to be looking at? Am I looking at what they're doing or am I looking at the people? Because if it's, I really should be seeing the specific tools and guns and gadgets they're using. Maybe it makes sense to crank up the shutter speed so I can see specifically what's happening. But if it's maybe two guys dressed in dark clothes, go ahead and let it have some motion blur. Let it smooth out and let me see the action as opposed to the, the things in and people that are fighting. Yeah. Totally. It's totally great. Yeah. I just wanted to add really quick, um, that this reminds me of, you know, when sort of, if you're interested in filmmaking, you're starting out, you, your main goal is to shoot in 24

33:34frames a second. And I think there's sort of this idea that you believe that if you can just shoot in 24 frames a second. You mean like me? Yeah. Yeah. I'm just saying, but I'm sure it happens, you know, to other people too. Uh, if you could just shoot in 24 frames a second, you'll have the movie look, you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's interesting because I suppose the more you learn, and this is the same thing with anything, you know, making music or, or painting or whatever. But movies are more complicated. I know, I know, but I'm saying that. No, no, that's not what I meant. I meant more complicated when it comes to having to learn what makes it look like a movie. Well, that's what I'm getting. I'm saying that. Sorry, I'm just, I'm just saying, I don't want, I'm just backtracking from when I said it was more complicated. And then you can comment. Okay, fine. I'm moving away. And, uh, and then you realize that yes, 24 frames a second is part of what makes a movie

34:20look like a movie, but there's so much more to it. And it's just interesting because that's the same thing when you're creating other, other kinds of art, you always find out like, yeah, you know, it's not really about just one, getting one element right or having one tool that will make you be able to create your thing. Painting is not about the shapes that you're painting, which is, you know, it's like, that's a part of it, but you also have, what about the brush strokes? What, what layers, how are you going to use light? It's, but everyone's focused on, but that doesn't look like a hand to me. The shape is wrong. Yeah. Like, but that's sort of like, cool hand Luke. Another inside joke, which is, um, Star Wars poster. I think it's the C poster. That's really complicated.

35:01Really? It's called the C poster. Yeah. The C, the famous poster where Luke is holding his gun. Yeah. Towards the camera. And there's Han Solo. And there's Han Solo. He's holding a lollipop. Yeah. And he's, he's surprised that he can't lick it. So he just goes, what? He's rejected by the lollipop. That's what it looks like. And Luke's hand in the back is like this withering. Yeah. Dark. And. Burnt hand. Yeah. And, uh, but that's the whole thing, right? With, with making things that you realize, I think, at least in my experience is that the more you work at sort of craft, the more you realize it's about the big picture. And suddenly all those things you learned along the way are absolutely important, but you don't dwell on them. You just use them to finish your big picture.

35:43Yeah. And that's what I think is interesting about that idea of 24 frames a second or shutter speed and stuff like that. It's just like you use whatever feels right. Yeah. Yeah. Tools to tell a story. Exactly. And that's cool. You know, when you think about it that way, it really is also very freeing because then you feel like, wow, you, you sort of have a better idea of what you want. Whereas when you're starting out, I think you're really focused on the tools and the techniques and you'd be like, oh, I just, if I can only get like this, then I'll be able to, you know, where it's like, yeah, if only my guitar tone was like exactly like this. And then you later realize like, who cares about guitar tones? I just need another pedal. Just one more. And then pass through, pass through, pass through.

36:25Yeah. Yeah. And it's like this delay pedal has like this characteristic. It's like, no one's going to hear that in the mix. Stuff like that, you know? Well, Neo gets thrown into the, into the wall again. He does. He gets thrown into the wall. What a hard, hard left turn back into the matrix. I think, I think at this point, you know, we're so far into the, like, we're so close to the ending that, you know, formalities are out of the window. Also, did you realize that Neo is thrown into the wall where there's a map? Oh. Is there significance to that? Is it Chicago? Because we were talking about maps earlier. So I'm just. Okay.

37:05Nice. But Drew, you would know because you live there and there's just so many Chicago things in here. Yes. I have a question. Is. Balbo. Yes. Thank you. Is Balbo. No, I don't think that's a real street in Chicago. I've never heard of it. It's too bad. But there's so many other things like Adam Street Bridge and. Actually, apparently there is. It's in Printers Row. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, there's a bunch of stuff. There is East Balbo Street. Wabash. There you go. Yeah. Wabash and Lake. Yeah. I just never go this far south, I guess. But that goes through. Yeah. Wabash and Lake are very real.

37:46Balbo. It's just in an area where I don't ever go. There you go. See what I mean? Amazing. It's in a touristy area, though. So most people should be able to see it if they want. Just go to Buckingham Fountain. Oh, yeah. Buckingham Fountain. We have a great video of Jacob when he was eight going, Buckingham Fountain. Buckingham Fountain. Yeah. So if you go to Buckingham Fountain and then head directly south, you'll cross East Balbo Drive. Awesome. There it is. Well, it is a real street then. It is. Yeah. It is. That's what I was saying. Sorry. So I totally lied. Oh, another quick. I think I said Zionists when I meant zealots on Monday. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. The word that we couldn't remember on Wednesday, like that place below your sternum, is your

38:29solar plexus. What? That is a very interesting word. It's like... Soul panels. Cool. That's great. So now we have corrected some information. So whoever comments and says it's not the Zionists, it's the zealots. And what was the other word? I think it's solar plexus. The Michigan zealots. It's like where you get your wind knocked out of you below your sternum. It's like... Hey, there you go. So that is true. The wind being knocked out of you. Yeah. And then after Neo gets crushed into that wall, then Agent Smith retaliates. Not retaliates. Doc Ock. But he continues. The Doc Ock shot here. This is a 90 degree shot.

39:11Very much like, you know, like you would see in Ghost in the Shell. Looking directly overhead, from overhead of the characters down. Yeah. And, yeah. And Doc Ock arms. One thing I like is that it's consistent. Agent Smith. Because it's the same effect that Agent whatever his name was on the roof. Yeah. It was doing his intimidation dance. Correct. Before bullet-time. So that's good. You know. Keeping it consistent. And, you know, this is consistent. But then when Neo has like eight arms in the... Yeah, that made no sense. Joe, that was not consistent. A bouquet of fists. Yes. And that's like on paper is a good idea. But then on film, it makes no sense.

39:52If they would have used it more, maybe yes. I think they were trying to replicate anime specifically when they... And it was so random. No, not just that. This too. Oh, this... But this seems okay. I don't have a problem. This, they at least kind of massaged it into live action more than... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at him go. I don't know. What do you think about that, Drew? What do you think about this effect? I like this one a little bit better. It's interesting. I'm trying to see how they're doing it by watching it back in slow motion. Here's a question. Where I feel like they filmed two different takes and then they are repeating both of the takes as kind of like little fadey bits. Because it's not... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it could be even multiple takes because it looks very naturally.

40:35It doesn't feel very... At least... I'm seeing at least two takes. I think that's definitely like one duplicate of this take and then another take that they're also duplicating twice. And so they would like, you know, roto that out and then track it onto his arms and... Kind of. It's mostly just kind of like... It's just kind of faded over it. Watching frame by frame. Yeah, you're right. Maybe you're right. It's a cool effect though, if you think about it. It looks really nice. And it also creates, you know, this feeling that the punches are super intense. Yeah, it's actually fairly... It's actually fairly simple effect. I'm pretty sure you could... Phil, you could figure this out in less than a few hours if you wanted to. You could do the same thing with two takes.

41:17My only question is how... They didn't even have to line them up in order to do it, I don't think. But how are they erasing the floor? Like, how are they... Just do it. You can... I mean, you can shoot a background plate. You can just take a photo of a background plate. Yeah, because it is a still shot. And you can... And I'm assuming they digitally shook the camera for this one. Yeah, I'm thinking that as well, because otherwise it would ruin the whole thing. That's interesting. It's very effective. It's really... I like this effect much better than the bouquet of many fists. Totally. And this actually, I think, is better than the agent dancing. Yeah. And so Nia's also getting hit in the real world.

41:57He's shaking his dentist chair. Well, it's a massage chair now. And it's like in The Matrix, he's like, oh, this is weird. It feels good, but also bad. It feels good, but also bad. Quality writing. So weird. Academy Award. Thank you. Best original. And then we come back to actually ghosty effect for the ending. We're going back to that. But this time, it's only one take. You're right. It changes. I like this one better, actually, the second one. Because he's wrapping up. That's why it's back down to this one. We don't know what happens next, because that's not in this minute. It's noodle arms.

42:38Yeah, it's not this minute. He's sort of finishing up his Doc Ock attacks. Move. So now his arms aren't quite so disparate. Yeah. And with that, we've went through this entire fight scene. In one minute, we always realize how much stuff there is when there's an action scene. Within one minute. And sometimes when we watch these things before we record, Tim sometimes goes, oh, there's so much. I mean, has it really been a minute? You know, because... Wait, wait, wait, wait. Repeat that. I don't know what you mean. Like when we're watching it, you know, before we record, so we remember what we're talking about. Tim sometimes goes, oh, wow.

43:20There's... Are you sure this is a minute? Because it feels longer. Oh, I see. Because fight scenes always seem to feel a lot longer than they do when you just have two people talking. Yeah. Boring facts by Phil. Cool. You're welcome. In the words of Jeff Bridges, it's a good one. I know that one. Oh, man. Bowling? Are you a bowler? Oh, man. These inside jokes that no one knows. Yeah. I don't think I've seen Jeff Bridges in very many things lately. Right? He had that one period where he was in True Grit and everything else. Kind of exploded. Yeah. Yeah. And now he's back. Tron. Legacy.

44:00Back off the map. Yeah. But he used to be... I think it's... You know, he used to be in... There was The Giver. I haven't seen it. Oh, yeah. They made that, didn't they? Yeah. Weird. We're at that point where there's too many book adaptations and you just don't even remember that they made it because they all look the same. And also, like, young adult books. Yeah. Yeah. That's thanks to certain... Do you know what I also wondered? Which is weird. Speaking of actors... Katniss Everdeen. And we also mentioned in this podcast, so it works. Yeah. Scott Pilgrim vs. The World. We watched it recently. Yeah. And it's interesting that Michael Cera is also kind of not in movies as much. Oh, yeah. Remember that time when I saw... You do Shia LaBeouf?

44:42Oh, yeah. Oh, no. Shia is a special case, I think. Joaquin Phoenix? I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hasn't been in anything that I know of since, like, her. Joaquin. Yeah, I was going to say since her. Interesting. Joaquin. Joaquin. I don't know words. How do you say names? Joaquin, isn't it? Yeah. Joaquin. Yeah. I think. Could be wrong. He's going to be the Joker. I think it's Joaquin Noah is, like, a basketball player. So that was... Ah. Ah, yes. Me getting them mixed up. Yeah. And then there was this movie. He did with Ryan Reynolds. Jeff Bridges, that is. It's called Rest in Peace Department. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember seeing... I think it was, like, Men in Black, but not... Preview for that. Not very good.

45:22And I think that's where everything went downhill for... He was like, and I'm out. I think I'm going to retire now. Yeah. That's kind of how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, well... I think we are finished here. I think we are finished here with Minute 116. People can obviously click your name and go to your website, right? Yeah. I finally got a website up. It's www.drewfosberg.com. Right now, just drewfosberg.com doesn't work. You have to put all those lengthy wide Ws in. So that's World Wide Web. Yes, worldwideweb.drewfosberg.com.

46:02HTTP. Thank you. Colon. What was it? Double slash. Double forward slash or backward slash? Slash. Actually, it's HTTPS. Oh, yeah. That's a new one. Yeah. I'm S2. You got to get that security in. Yep. You're S2? I'm also S. On what? S rank. What? I'm on... I'm on... Whenever I'm browsing, I have it on HTTPS for everything. Oh, is that like a plugin or whatever it's called? Extension? I don't know. HTTPS everywhere, I think is what it is. That confuses me. How does that even work? Well, it just types S. Yeah, but like, what if the server doesn't have S? Then it doesn't type it. Yeah, then it doesn't type it. You press Enter and then the S disappears.

46:44It checks and then if it doesn't have, then it doesn't do. Because usually if you type in, let's say, twitter.com, it goes straight to HTTPS. Because Twitter is secure. Well, they're forwarding. That's a difference. Ah, I see. That's also their choice, just like I am. Cool. And then also, people can go watch your vlogs. Yes. Yeah, I have vlogs, youtube.com slash Drew Vosberg. You can go check this out. Why wasn't it Drew Vosberg? That's true. I actually already had the YouTube channel and it's easier to just keep it as my name. Drew Vlogsberg. Yeah, so go check out Drew's vlog. It's Drew's life.

47:24It's great. It's really good. It's fun. I like them. Yeah, me too. I contributed. Yeah, of course you contributed. I just watched them. Jake is actually, Jake, beyond just making music, he's also kind of a consultant. That is true. He's always helping me. When I have issues, I will always turn to Jake for advice because he has a good outside but invested opinion that helps me make better choices and ultimately make better videos. I agree. I agree. I show him my videos and I ask him for advice as well. I say, go away. He just bashes them. Yeah. I'm consulting Drew's vlogs. Go away.

48:05But it's been really, really cool to have Drew Vosberg with us. Yes, I know. It's been awesome. We haven't spoken in so long, Drew. Yeah, we should catch up more. I don't know. Well, we can figure out later any way that we could talk to you. We'll publicly arrange. Yeah. Yeah. Let's make sure on this podcast, everyone knows the way that Phil and I will be following up after this. Perfect. They're holding us accountable. Yeah. See if you guys will. Character counts. Cool. So an interesting fact for you, dear listener, is that the only other time Drew was on a podcast was our other podcast. Oh, that was ages ago. Ages ago. Just 2013.

48:4513. And this is the second time we've talked in this public forum. Yes. Which is interesting. Very interesting. Very interesting. And that about wraps it up. Yep. So thank you, everyone. That's right. And we will return on Monday. Bye. On the Matrix. Met. There you go. Yeah, I love that.

49:28Good. We did it.