Minute 114: “You’re empty.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00The Matrix Minute, a podcast where we discuss the first film one minute at a time. Hello everyone, we have a new website design. Oh yes, we gotta promote that. Jacob did a great job on that. What do you mean, Tim? You also worked on it. I was the advisor. I was just basically making you do things. The advisor. Sure, sure. I like the blue. Make it more material, please. I just like it. I dig it. I like the new one. Thank you. I think it turned out pretty good. For a movie by minutes website, it has everything you need. Everything the body needs. So we are on minute 113. 14. 14. 114. And with us is a special guest.

0:41Friend of the show. No, that's not true. A true friend. A true friend. Not a friend of the show. A true friend in real life. Indeed. We actually go way back since, I think, 1999. In my case. Yeah. When we were at a Christmas caroling event hosted by his parents. And we were making stupid faces at each other. That's true. So, Drew Vosbrook is here. Yes, yes. Welcome, Drew. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah. It's funny. It's funny. Like you say, 1999. Because that's the exact kind of time anchoring that I cannot do. That I've always been jealous of you and Jake both being able to pull years of a specific memory.

1:24Oh, yeah. That was 1999. And I'm like, I don't know. I could have been any range from like 5 to 15 years old. Yeah, so Drew and us sort of go way back. Yeah. Basically, I guess in a way we kind of grew up together. Yeah. Right? I mean, like. I mean, you guys, a lot of times in the summer you weren't in Indiana. You were off away. But at school we were together a lot. We went to school together in Indiana. More or less. I mean, me and Drew did. Yeah. We were four grades apart. Same school. Same school. Exactly. I mean, to be fair, it's like a super small school, right? It is true, yeah. Like how many people were going to Liberty at the time? I think it was like 300.

2:05Is that right? That's like including like kindergarten through high school though, right? No. I mean, it was a very small school. Middle school and high school. Because like each class at Liberty was like, in middle school and high school was like 20 kids? 20 maybe 30? Yeah. It was a very small school. So, I mean, we, it's not like, it was really actually kind of creepy where like grade schoolers sometimes knew who all the seniors were. Which is weird. Do you count grade school as middle school? Because I don't really count that as grade school. No, I'm talking about like kids in like fourth grade. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. We're just talking about the fact is that we went to Liberty. School was small. And listen, wait, let me explain. And there was a middle school, it was a middle school and high school in the same building.

2:45Yes. Which is not super simple. I don't know what that means though. What is that? Oh, that means sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. Okay. And then high school. Okay. High school is 11. Nine, 10, 11, 12. Yes. Yeah. All together in one building. Yeah. Usually that's not the case. Yeah. And that's what made it small. And I was there for art classes most of the time. And yeah, I mean, that's where, and Drew used to come over to our place often. We had movie nights. We always did some cool stuff together. We went to Taco Bell almost every night. Anderson, Indiana adventures were Taco Bell. Taco Bell run. That's what we called it. Taco Bell run. And we also made a little short, tiny Matrix movie in 2007 because we made a makeshift Steadicam

3:27and we wanted to test it out. So we just did that. That's true. Yeah. I don't think Drew remembers that one. And then me and you, Drew, remember we played in youth group in the band? Yeah. That was fun. That was a fun year. Joe Webb. Oh, yes. Super bright guitar strings. I played guitar and Drew played bass. But I was the rhythm guitarist. I wasn't the lead guitarist. Right. The lead guitarist was Josh. Not big enough. Yeah. And Drew is prolific in many things, particularly as far as it has to do with computers. I'm trying to get into the Matrix thing. You know, I was trying to get into the quote for the Matrix. You know, your life has lived in computers. How about this one? Drew grew up as a hacker. What was the name of their friend in What We Do in the Shadows?

4:09The friend? He was like, what was the guy's name? It's like, this is a friend. Oh, I don't remember. I just remember Sweet Peeta. Oh, sweet. That's how I described it. I don't know. I don't know. It's in a year. I forgot. I'm sorry. I'll look it up. I just remember Sweet Peeta. But anyway, no, Drew is a designer. That's right. Go on, James. That's the correct word. You do a better description. Well, no, Drew can introduce himself. He's here. You're right. Yeah. So I mostly sit around in kind of large, boxy clothes and eat cereal in my apartment, making CDs for my friends who come over. No, that's new. I'm a designer. You burn the CDs and you go to the McDonald's and you say, hey, this is my CD.

4:51Oh, my gosh. Go ahead. That was a weird. We got confronted by someone trying to give out their CDs at a McDonald's one time. But no, I'm a designer and developer. So I work with startups and other companies on their apps, their websites, trying to figure out how do we make sure it's consistent in terms of like the colors and the spacing and the type stuff. All the way down to like how should the animations work if you're opening a menu down to how should it be easier to sort through a large table of data on a dashboard. So my experience is a little bit varied there. But you also have a background in animation. You went to school for animation.

5:32Yeah. So I went to school with Steve Leeper and Brian Ballinger, who are two people who had worked at Big Idea on VeggieTales. So that's the reason why I picked Huntington University, which is kind of a small college in. Actually, it's a university, I think, technically. I remember you told me that. I remember back then, like, it used to be a college. And then when you enrolled, they officially became a university. Yeah, because I think they had like a school of nursing that they had just opened. And they were like, oh, Drew's enrolling. Well, time to up it to university. Yep, that's right. And then you walked in and you were talking to town. But more recently, what you do is... UX design, right? No, no, you do vlogs.

6:13Oh, that's right. Of course. Which we watch every time. There's a new one. Yes. It's quite nice. It's very good. And it's been going so much better. You know, like you've been improving so frequently and so much. And I'm very impressed. Yeah, it's great. It's awesome. And we're going to... You can... We'll talk about that later. Yeah, and the best part of the vlogs is really, like, the music is just amazing. Yeah, I wonder about that. Jake has kindly donated all of the music for the vlogs. I don't think I've used... Other than, like, one time I played the ukulele on my back porch. Everything else, I think, has been Jake. Yeah, yeah. It's great. It's cool stuff. I just donated everything. And you also live in Chicago, which is, you know...

6:54That's true. Which is a big thing for the... It made it so much easier to walk here into the studio. Yeah. Nice reference to the old podcast. Yeah. I could never tell what building that was supposed to be in. I don't even know. I think it was just... It switches and switches. Anyway, anyway, to get back on track. Oh, yeah. To get back on track. Here we are. Minute 114. This is all fights. This whole week, guys. It's all fighting. Punching. So we can talk about stuff like Neo punches Agent Smith in the face. Yeah. And then, yeah. You just turn it into a segue for off-topic stuff. So there you go. We're in the right place. Perfect. Okay.

7:34So... So this is what happens. You want to know? Because I'm going to tell you. I would love to know, my friend. What the hell just happened? Smith has Neo where he wants him. No one can help Neo. And he can either run away or fight. He stands his ground. He's beginning to believe. Neo and Smith shoot at each other and run out of bullets. They toss their guns away. That's our minute. It sounds really stupid when I just explain it like that. But, you know, in the movie, it's pretty exciting. Okay. So... Let's get right in. There's a wonderful whip pan. What the hell just happened? It's beautiful. Yeah. Do you know who directed that whip pan? Not me. Edgar Wright. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The whip master. They were like, Edgar. And he's like, yeah, I want to get an eight.

8:15He's like, we need a whip pan. He just made... What was that? Sean? No, no. Spaced. No, no, no, no, no. No one has been before Spaced. What did he just mean? I think the... The fingers. The fingers. Western. His first... Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. What do you look like? Probably sound like it. Yeah, all right. Hello. All right. All right. Yeah. Hello. I'm making movies. Yeah. Can't wait for Star Wars. So, yeah, we have the whip pan. And then Tank. Okay, so Tank is like, I can't send him... I can't send you back to Trinity. Drew, you had a question about this. Yeah, I don't understand. Is he turns out that he can't send... Like, what is the reason that he can't send Trinity back in? I have a theory, but you guys can go first.

8:56Unless you don't hear my theory. The phone is... You're right. The phone is broken. Basically, the transmitter, I guess, needs to work because Neo can't get back in and she can't get out. It's just... The whole phone is an object. It has to work. That's just... I mean... I also think my theory is like, maybe that Tank needs to run a script program to sort of like, to search out potential exit points. And get it hot. Yeah. Yeah. And he has to like, juice it up, charge it up. And he has to find a correct point to get out from. And I think that it's difficult and it takes time. And it's tricky. So, I think that like, he can't just like, automatically go, oh, there's one like, across the block. Yeah, magic his way.

9:36He has to like, go and spend like, 10 minutes looking. But no, but when Cypher wanted to get out, he found one in like, second. He's like, I need to exit. And he's like, uh... Well, maybe he was lucky. Yeah, he was lucky. They were close by. They were close to the hotel. Yeah. Yeah. I guess like, thinking about it, the phone, it's only the receiver that's broken, right? Or is the whole box... Because I guess I haven't seen... Yeah. I haven't seen the previous minute. The phone broke. Is the whole box shut up? But yeah, the receivers... Or is it just the receiver? Just the receiver. Like, the player holding your hand. Yeah. See, that's weird to me because the receiver is like, not critical to the functioning of the actual phone, right? Yeah, but how would you... They kind of go away through the receiver. Yeah, they do. The ear hole. I guess they would have to like, hold the payphone like...

10:16No, because like, I always felt that the ear hole, that's the place where the magic happens. I think so, yeah. Yeah. It's the little amplifier with an old microphone. It just sucks them in. They come out from the amplifier and they get sucked into the microphone. That's a good question. That's a good thing you mentioned, Tim, because we never got to see them booting into the Matrix. Yeah. Even, you remember at the beginning when you go through... Oh, I said the end as well. When you go through the microphone, you know, you go through the earpiece. Yep. You get to Neo, like at the end. So, it's telling you like the connection is through the holes. Yeah, I think it is. You have to transfer through. I think it's like some frequency mumbo jumbo. It's also telling, very telling when he says, I can't. He looks down and the next shot is the phone dangling, like all broken on the lower part

11:01of your frame. Mm-hmm. So, it's kind of like a visual indicator he's talking about the phone is broken. So, yeah. You know, it goes through that. So, I guess... Just as a disclaimer to everybody listening, I don't have notes. So... Well, I have notes. You know, Neo's shirt is what I wanted to get when I was... It's looking good, huh? Yeah. Yeah. If I get one just like that. Yeah. And there he is. Smith, he sees his enemy and he goes, Mr. Anderson. And then Trinity's like, run, Neo, run. Right? Because everybody's afraid of agents. You have to run your head off.

11:41And this is the moment. This is the moment where, you know, it's a call to action. Oh, wait, wait, wait. What are we doing? Stop. Everyone stop. Why? You haven't asked the guest about the Matrix. Oh, my goodness. My goodness. Perfect. Nice. Good job. Okay. Drew, tell us. What do you think? How did the Matrix come into your life, if at all? Yes. And when? If at all. Definitely not. Well, I think... So, like, my first experience with the Matrix was... Jake, do you remember Don Lawson at all? He kind of lived near our house. I do. He would commute with us to school. Right. So, he and David watched the Matrix, maybe in theaters, I want to say.

12:22David's your brother, just for a specific. David, my older brother, watched the Matrix in theaters. And they were really, like... They thought it was so cool, so amazing. And I only really, like, Google searched it. I didn't really... I don't remember how old I was, but I... You mean Yahoo searched it? Yeah. I typed it in as keywords in AOL. Yeah. And got back the AltaVista results. And I just, like, had seen people with trench coats vaguely. Everything is black and shiny. Green code stuff. Seems cool. I have no idea what it's about. And then I think the first time I watched it was at your house on the projector.

13:04Really? Hey! Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I remember... This was, like, what? Like, two. The mid-O's? 2006, yeah. Yeah, way after it came out. So, it's, like, ten years after, I think. So, you basically never watched it, like, around the time it came out. You're just Googling. Yeah, you're just, like, whatever. Yeah, and just looking at the blue poster on your door. That's true. We had a poster. What are you wondering? What is this? Like, why is... Why are people's arms weird lengths? Morpheus is snake arms. Oh, man. It's like, you know, have you seen that amazing Donald Trump meme where his arms grow from touching the orb?

13:45Oh, yeah, yeah. Morpheus had a little touch of that orb. He did? Yeah. A little touch-touch. So, anyway, so you watched it at our place. Evidently, I forgot this, to be honest. I'd remember completely, clearly. What? Really? 2006 morning, because we had a, like, he spent the night at our place, and in the morning we watched it. And I hated it because the covers that were supposed to cover the window, or the sliding door with the glass, were not thick enough. So, this red, because it was, there were red sheets, there were red covers, were bleeding through. There were drapes. Red drapes. The red drapes were bleeding through, and there was this red color, and it was gross, and I hated it. Yeah, it really muted the green a bit. Yeah. You know what surprises me?

14:26No. Is that Philip will remember something that happened 15 years ago, and then, but he won't remember what you tell him where we're going through. You have to tell him about 20 times. He's like, what? Where are we going? But he'll remember the drapes from 2006 in the morning. The first time you witness something. It's not even your memory. You don't even remember it. But Phil will remember. This is amazing. This is terrible. And the prime example is group chats. Phil can't read three lines in group chats. Shut up. Shut up. We're not talking about this on air. You never said that. It's like, yeah, it's in the group chat. Why don't you read? I skimmed it, and I thought I read it the right way. Amazing. So skimming is the key. But red drapes?

15:07Yes. Shut up. Stop. Also, I want to apologize to the audience that I missed a great opportunity to yell out, hold the phone to stop this conversation. Great pun. You're late, Tim. You're like 10 minutes late. I'm so late. It doesn't count. Always late. So anyway, so you watched The Dark Place. What did you think when you watched it? What was your first impression of the Maturiksov? I liked it. I don't think I fully, like, I still can't, as I'm listening through the podcast with you guys, I keep re-remembering, oh yeah, that's how that worked. I don't think it really like, wow, I've memorized this now after one viewing. Right. Which actually, sometimes with movies, I can easily quote back lines pretty quick.

15:48The Matrix was a little bit more, I feel like it's a more complex movie overall that really benefits from multiple, like, watch throughs, I think. Yeah. So I liked it. I thought it was cool. I don't think I fully had explored it just by watching it once, though. Yeah, because I think, like, we talked about this before, is that when you come into, like, a movie like The Matrix after, what was it, seven years from when it came out, you have a different perception of, like, what it was in, like, film history. So that's what I'm curious about. Like, when you watched it, were you like, oh yeah, like, these are now, like, standard issue, you know, sort of sequences or visual effects or whatever?

16:32Yeah, because at the time... It probably wasn't that impressive, I imagine. Yeah, because at the time... Right, it was a lot... I think it was a lot less, like, cool. Because remember, at this point, it's like, we're already, what, two new Star Wars is in, at least? Yeah. At the time of the recording. Yeah. A lot of movies imitated the look and stuff like that, so you would have seen the sort of side effect or the copies. Yeah. Right. I wonder if the original will have an impact as well, as much as it is for the people who saw it. So basically, would it be safe to say that it wasn't, like, a really novel experience, it was sort of just, like, another film, in a way? Yeah. And I do think, like, even watching through this now, I think I was a little bit distracted by some of the cable use, like, when people get sucked up by cables and physics are clearly

17:15not applying. That gets really distracting to me. I get sucked up by the cables. Well, no, it's like, oh, and he's on the ground and whoops, backwards gravity, I guess. Where it's like, what is that? Whereas, like, I think a lot of times they'll try to either mask that with shots or... Like, with the angle or they'll just do a better job now. Yeah. So at the time, it was sort of like, that's distracting. And I'd already seen, like, a thousand different remakes of bullet-time or... Yeah. Exactly. So it was sort of like, I knew what to expect from the really impressive visuals because they had all been shown before. That's what I'm saying. But then the average effects were then, like, more distracting if they were not good.

17:59Yeah. Was there anything about the movie that, like, stuck out as, like, ooh, this is interesting, this is something different, or no? I think so. I also don't know if I fully understood that there was more than one kind of agent. Between, like, Browns and Smith. That's easy to make, Miss. I only saw, like, everyone is a clone of Smith because they're all wearing basically the same thing. Yeah. And the sequels don't help because it's all Smiths. Yeah. There's, like, copy-paste Smiths. Yeah. So it got really confusing, I think. Yeah. Yeah. It's like me with Bakshi's Lord of the Rings. It's true. Like, because, like, when I was a kid, I thought the orcs were, the ringwraiths were... I love how every time Drew's on, it always comes. Oh, no, we're not going to go there.

18:39I'm going to stop it right there. I'm not going to go any further. But, yeah, that's... Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. Confusing. So that's cool. It's great to have someone who isn't, you know, like, who hasn't seen it at the beginning and hasn't thought it was... Yeah, you weren't at the world premiere in London or something. Yeah, and you didn't go, that was mind-blowing. Whoa. Yeah. So that's interesting. That's great. It's great to have someone like that over on our program. All right. So... So we can return back to... The minute. The men. I mean, the trio looking at the screen. A bunch of codes. And then watching this whole fight through a bunch of codes. Yeah. Like, raining on a screen. That's stupid. They're loving it. Oh, that's stupid, you say. Oh, really? It is stupid.

19:19It's cool when you're a kid. Because they're so cool. Look how advanced they are. They're reading the code to watch the spectacle. I would have liked maybe like some kind of bad 3D rendering of just like, I don't know, something. Like, you know when he's fighting Morpheus and Mouse is looking at his Neo Wave of Mamas? Yeah. Wave of Mamas. Wave of Mamas. There was like some little animation. Something like that. I don't know. I just think it was weird to just looking at a screen. Well, in the 90s it wasn't. It was cool. Like, she read from that screen that he's starting to believe. I like it. I think it's fine. It's good. Who cares? But yeah, Morpheus is really psyched about this. Dude, Morpheus is having like, this is, this is like the peak of his life.

20:00Yeah. And again, he's like pushing his propaganda. He's trying to believe. He's not trying to believe. He's just like, he's trying. He's trying out things. He says, you know what? Let me, let me try this fighting thing. I don't think Neo believes in himself. Don't help him. Make sure Neo is in as much danger as possible. Of course. Yes. Signed. He's the trials. Loving Morpheus. Yeah. He's the trials. It's like, you know, poor Eddie would have never made this far. Oh, yes. Yeah. Eddie. But that rack focus with Neo looking at the exit, looking at the stairs and the camera pulling back and then it focuses onto his face as he turns around. So good. I like that one. I like that shot. Yeah. Lots of defiance in that little move. It's great. And then. It's classic Bill Popey.

20:42I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. Popo. But well, well, well, well. Agent Smith sounds like an old witch. I understand. So here we have an homage that's been done many times, which is the classic Western. Yes. What do you call that? Gun draw. Standoff. Standoff. Thank you. Do you know that me as a kid, that totally flew over my head. I didn't see this at all. I don't know. I kind of, I think I probably would have gotten it. Yeah. What do you think, Drew? What? The Western standoff? Did you like? Yeah. I was sort of expecting like a good, the bad and the ugly whistle. Well, especially because the, because the, the newspapers fly.

21:22Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that's the, the tumbleweed. Yeah. Yeah. It's wonderful. I think, but this is what I like about this is that, um, the movie isn't too afraid to be a little bit light and be a little bit jokey. Cause this isn't, you know, this is kind of funny, you know, like in essence, you know, it's referencing something and if you get it, you're like, nice, you know, it's almost cliche like this, this reference. Well, yeah, especially with Don Davis going with the little, um, wood blocks. Yeah. But I think it's intentionally cliche in a way where it's sort of, what it helps do is break the tension that there's almost like this, he's starting to believe has a bit of

22:03a like weird, like, come on, give me a break. And so then it gives you a little bit of a, like a little bit of a relief. So you're more willing to come back and suspend disbelief. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think that's really helpful because if it's taking itself super seriously, then it almost becomes like an eye rolly moment. But instead this, even like when they're like, you're out of bullets, you are too, is sort of like giving you a little bit more of like cushioned on like, Hey, remember this is still a fake story. So you have to keep believing that this is happening. Yeah. Because if it's too serious, then it, it, you know, it risks being stupid. Basically. Wow.

22:43This is a great. And I love, I love the juxtaposition. I can never say that word. Just juxtaposition. Juxtaposition. That's the one. That's the one. Of them that being a very classic look. You mean you have the framing, you know, on the arm, just like, you know, went for the gun. And then it kicks off. They're like jumping on walls and flying through space and shooting at each other. But that's what it works. Because if it was like a classic shootout and they shoot at each other, you know, they'll, you know, whip out the gun. Like, it would be very cheesy. So I just worked like, it goes into like chaos. Yeah. They start, you know, like he's doing a crab walk. They're running at each other, shooting. Crab walk. What man does that? Neo style. Yeah. Of crab walk, yeah. But I love though, like, I also love that they reuse bullet-time.

23:26Yes. For the third time, I think? The last time. I think it's the fourth time. The first one was Trinity. Okay. The second time was... Neo bending. No. That far? Maybe you're right. I think it's just Trinity, then Neo. No, yeah. Bending. And then there was quasi bullet-time when the Smiths are shooting through the wall at Morpheus. That is bullet-time. I'd count that as bullet-time as well. Yeah, that is bullet-time. So this is the fourth one. So this is Trinity, Morpheus, Neo, and then Neo and Agent Smith. So I do have a question about that. Was this like the exact same bullet-time rig where it's making the exact same movement? Or are they adjusting it for each of these times? Oh, they're totally adjusting it. I think they're adjusting it. The Morpheus, well, we're not sure if that was a rig or not.

24:07It was, it was. Who confirmed this? Making it of documentaries. No. I didn't see it. He just showed me like a 3D rendering. There was never any rig to show. But Morpheus... Oh, maybe you're right, dude. Maybe it's CG. How is there no... No. No. I kid... This is beyond... Like, I don't believe... Not this. Morpheus. I know, but that's like 1999? Yeah. I think it was bullet-time, Tim. I'm pretty sure. Because they're consistent. I think they didn't have the technology to make CG on Morpheus. I need proof on this. Okay. Well, I mean, like, I watched them reloaded behind the scenes and John Gato was like, this is the first time we're using CG doubles and we're not doing bullet-time at all. Yeah, we're ruining bullet-time. Yeah, basically. No, no, no. Morpheus wasn't CG.

24:48I think just the camera movement. Because it looks really weird. It doesn't look as natural as the other ones. Maybe. Okay, okay. Maybe. It was just like normal slow motion. Maybe that's a hybrid. Some weird hybrid. Yeah, yeah. Some weird... Something fuck is going on because the camera wishes a little bit too fast. Yeah. And so, but they reuse bullet-time here in the classic sense. In the... Yeah. The thing they made up. The rig. The award-winning sense. The practical effect. Yeah, and I love it. I think it's just so cool. It's one of the best ones. I think this is the best bullet-time. It's a good one. And I also love that the bullet... The bullets have those trails. Those like supersonic trails. It's... Chemtrails? Yeah, chemtrails. It's correct.

25:28They're poisoning the population. Because it's like... I like it because it's like a very good blend of like a comic book-y feel. Yes, yes. You know? Like they could have done like realistic things, but this is very... Otherworldly. Yes. Yes. That's cool. I just... Now I'm noticing just, you know, people getting sucked up by strings. Because after crab walk, they just do get sucked up pretty hard. Yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you look at the shots that come in before... Especially I think if you're seeing this minute out of context where you haven't seen any of the other string section, this one's pretty sucky. It is. It's suck-tastic. But at this point...

26:09I'm sorry. It's okay because it's... Because it's... They're both like super, you know, sane right at the moment. They're like the strongest fighters. So it's okay. They could be just flying at this moment. And anyway, like it doesn't have to be like a net. But I like the psyche effect because it's like... It's again, you know... It's in the tradition of Hong Kong... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Action films. All that stuff together. And it's also clear that they're not having... They're not like bound by the rules of physics. Exactly. Which is true in this story. That's fun. And also... They're also like making each other go deaf by shooting next to each other's ears. That's what I was always thinking of. Every time I was looking at this shot, I was always thinking of... And then they whisper about how many bullets each other has. Because their ears are ringing.

26:50They're just good at reading lips, okay? It's true. I mean, Agent Smith definitely is. He's fine. He's fine. Neo, I don't know. So let's talk about the choices of weapons. Neo comes back to his classic Beretta. But Agent Smith is using his... Come on, quiz time. What is it? Desert Eagle. Desert Eagle. Very good. Which will probably be so loud that... Wow. Next to Neo's ear. I don't know how that happens. And the hot casing just slamming in his face. Well, he just believes that it doesn't work on him. So it's fine. Because that's kind of one of the things about the Matrix is that... If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything. In a way. You know what I mean?

27:30Because that's the Matrix simulation. It can't completely take over your mind. And, you know, because it's not real. Oh yeah? Do you believe that? It's only your mind that believes it's real. Is that your belief? It's my belief. In the film. You can brain away sound? Yeah, yeah. That he can brain away the sound. Because he's Neo. If he's braining away gravity, he can brain away the sound. It's true. Okay. I want to brain away stuff. Second. Second. Okay. So this shot. This close-up cutaway when they're on the floor and he's like, You're empty. So are you. It breaks the rule. The rule of... What's it called? 90 degree rule? No. 180 degree? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 180. 180, yep. Yes.

28:11Sounds good. It breaks the rule because normally when you're shooting stuff like this, when you cut away, the person he's talking to is supposed to be on the other side. The side that he still is on in screen space in the foreground and then you cut away and he's in the same space in the background. But in this case... But in this case, you can see how... It's confusing. It's like a mirror, so you don't get confused, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But in this case, you can see how it's broken on purpose because you can see that Smith and Neo are... In the same position. Yes. And that can be confusing, but it's not confusing. It's not. It's perfect. It works fine because of the way it's framed. But it has a great graphical significance and precision.

28:58I like it. I think it also helps that Smith is wearing glasses and Neo isn't. Because then it's like a really quick identifier. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, the guns, too, sort of change. You can see that. Yeah, but only you would notice this, Jacob. Yeah, like it's 10%. Okay, well, anyway. In America, maybe. 10%. But yeah, the glasses, definitely. And then when he says, so are you, do you always look at the empty shells? I mean, the empty barrels? Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I love them. They're great. It's cool. The Desert Eagles barrels are... It's huge. Yeah, they're crazy. And then after they're done with that, they do Karate Time. No, no, no, no, no. This one moment. This one moment of Agent Smith looking at his gun and then looking back at Neo.

29:40I never even noticed this. No? I've seen it all the time. It's through his sunglasses, right? Through his sunglasses. So good. What? Look at his eyes. Yeah, yeah, I see it, but I never saw it before. It's like really delicate lighting in order to get that shot. Yeah, they definitely had to do that on purpose because... Which is funny, which is showing another... Like, he's supposed to be super awesome AI. He should know that he's out. So he's really showing more emotion. Human science. I think maybe we look at sometimes movies in a different way. Like, for me, there has to be some element where it's like unclear to where the limits are and sort of boundaries in these movies.

30:20Because I always like to think of films like in this case, like, they're quasi unpredictable. You know, like, there could be all kinds of stuff going on here. Right. But for me, it's Agent Smith is, you know, got that human stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I mean. Rubbed up on him. He's losing his machinery. His machinity. His machin... Machinity. I like it. Machinity. Machinity. He's losing his machinity and gaining humanity. Humidity. Humanity. He's been humanimized. All right, go on. And maximized. That was bad. Anyway, let's see. What else is there? So they do karate flips.

31:01No, Neo does karate flips. Neo does a great flip. You can see that it's the stunt double, Chad. Neo watched that move on YouTube. He's like, I'm going to try that. Before YouTube existed. Yeah. Oh, you're right. Look, it's the stunt double. It's Chad Stahelski. If you frame by frame it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not Neo. Well, we should... That's a new thumbnail. Too bad I didn't get old man Neo back. Oh, boy. That is true. Wow. But it's Keanu on the floor, isn't it? No. Yeah. Getting sucked up? Yeah. Getting sucked up.

31:41Great. Yeah, he's getting sucked up. He's getting rolled by the strings. Okay, so what do you guys think about the juxtaposition between Agent Smith being very calm and collected. He's like a big tank kind of guy. And Neo is more like, you know, he's still a little bit, you know... What's the word? Flamboyant? Not flamboyant, but he's very... Flourishy. Flourishy? Yeah, flourishy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Swish and swish. What do you guys think about that? Intentional? Yeah, it's intentional. Yeah, that's his cocky attitude, like springing up again. That's him. I think... This is not him believing he's the one. It's his... That's the, you know, the old rebel Neo. He's like kicking in like,

32:21you know what? I'm going to try to take this. Let me see if I can do this. And this is his whole attitude in this whole fight, you know? It's him jumping up until, you know, Smith kicks the shit out of him, but... What do you think, Drew? Yeah, I mean, I think... I think both of them kind of feel like they're in control of the situation to a degree where like Neo has just kind of gotten a new confidence and maybe it is overconfidence. But... Smith, I think, has felt dominant because no one's really been pushing back at all. So that's why you can see sort of his general like overconfidence almost.

33:01And Neo is coming back with a lot of bravado because he suddenly feels like, wait a second, I can take this guy. Hmm. Yeah. So... That sounds about right. I think that's kind of... You're seeing that in their body language as well. I feel like you never... I think Neo doesn't ever believe he's the one. Like, throughout this entire thing. But isn't that kind of the point? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that whole turn, like that rack focus is where he's like, even if I'm not the one, I think I can at least like punch this guy. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's right. Well, I think it's also Neo basically taking a chance in changing and disrupting the pattern that has been established, which is, you know, you run from an agent.

33:42You always sort of hide. You have to, you know... Neo's making a stand. Like, I guess it's also in his personal journey. Just like, whatever happens. And he's also, he's already crossed the threshold with going to the lobby. I mean, that was the first sort of, you know... Call to action. Right, but I think this is even further though, right? Where it's, this is where he goes all in. Yes. Where he could choose to try to, how do I get out? I don't know if there's an escape. And instead he's like, I'm alone. I'm still, like, because even in the lobby he wasn't alone. Yeah. Here he's alone and he's still, you have to make a choice, like, fight or flight. And here he chooses, like, to stay, to try to see, I guess,

34:22I mean, what does he have to lose? I don't think he would do a, do very well if he was just running. I think all that, you know, grabbing the helicopter and shooting all the agents and, like, killing a bunch of soldiers kind of boosted his, his thing. Testosterone levels. Testosterone. So he's very, you know, it's the back to the old, you know, how about I give you the finger and you give me the phone call, you know? Oh, yeah. Nice. Forgot about that. Because, because back then he didn't know who Agent Smith was. He was just thought some agent's guy. So he was in control. He probably had some lawyers, you know, some friends in high places. This is so true. I never thought about this. Yeah. They were in the... And he, he had confidence because he thought he knew what was going on that after, you know,

35:02Alien comes out of his belly, he's lost. But now he's back in control. And I still can't believe, Jacob, after all these episodes, after so much evidence, you still believe Morpheus' lies. Why do you believe in this man's filth? I believe Morpheus' lies? Because he keeps saying he's the one. I like to explore all the ideas. So do I. Yeah. I don't have any, I don't have any... I keep defending, like, it's the one. I think he's a... No, I'm the devil's advocate because these are all different views. We can entertain different views simultaneously. It's true. Of his work of fiction. Morpheus wore purple, Jake. There's no denying it. He did. Did he? Yes, he did. In purple and green. Just snake colors. That's what he is.

35:42He's got a snake arm in the poster. Exactly. Morpheus' villain confirmed. The snake arm. In Phil's dreams, he had tentacles for eyes. What more do you need? I gotta draw that sometime. You should. All right. Well, wait, let me clear the air here. I have to say, Tim, that after all these minutes we've been discussing together, you know, I think you've made a pretty good case for Evil Morpheus and honestly, it's like the first time ever that I've really, you know, entertained the idea that, yeah, like this is very, very plausible. Challenging your beliefs. Maybe even more plausible than how I used to watch the film. But I like that because it's a very different perspective

36:24and I think it also is a commentary on sort of this, you know, we talked about like dogmatism and like, you know, not to hold things with a sort of loosely, you know, not to be so clenched fists, you know, and that's sort of where I'm at, you know, in life. So it's nice to see that, you know, in the Matrix. Yeah. It gets worse in the sequels. That's true. But I think I like it more because it gives Neo a bit more gravitas and a little bit more decision making. He's not just a puppet of someone's, you know, decided faith and looking at these scenes of him enjoying that sort of rebellious side and everything. It kind of makes him a better character. The thing is, more than I think, go ahead. Yeah, sorry. It's just like, if you think about back to the story of Jesus

37:06where there were the Zionists that were fighting against Rome and were like super violent and it's a little hard not to make the comparison because the place is called Zion, right? And, you know, there's a bunch of like kind of Christ comparisons. But Jesus doesn't come and violently overthrow the Romans in the way that the Zionists wanted him to. Yeah. And I think there's sort of a case to be made where like Morpheus is more of the Zionist. Yes. And Neo is more of the Jesus figure. Yeah. Whereas he's not necessarily doing what you'd expect him to do in order to save the world. And also like another Jesus parallel is that Neo is usually the question asker here, right? In the movie. He's not really,

37:46like he's not really like making all these declarative statements. He's sort of like retorting with questions, right? So. Why? Why? When? Uh-uh. But what I also like is that Neo is very, he's very real. He's much more genuine than Morpheus because Morpheus, you know, he's sort of like has all the answers. He's, he's, he's hiding behind he's hiding behind his, his, his 10 commandments, you know? And Neo is just saying like, you brought down from the mountain. But Neo is very real because he's sort of like just seeing where things go. And Morpheus doesn't want to allow that like in his own life. Yeah. Morpheus is all about just like, yeah. In, in, in a, in a astonishing turn of events, I'm going to play

38:26the devil's advocate and give praise to Morpheus in this example. Give praise to Morpheus. Go on. Woo. Um, at this moment, what, what, what Morpheus does good, is that when he finally sees confidence in, in Neo, and when he says in this line, he's starting to believe, at least he backs off and lets Neo do his shit. He doesn't come back in, Neo, think of the 10 commandments. You know? Oh, you're right. You're right. Well, you should use your right hand as you strike down your enemy because it is written in the tablets. You know what I mean? He's like, he's back off. He's got it. This is, this is where, this is where my, you know, where I stop. Because, probably because he thinks now the world is going to end, but, you know, poor bastard,

39:07what can you do? This is true. This is true. Yeah, and just on a technical thing, I just wanted to say since this is the last bullet-time, it's good, good, good effect, CG backgrounds and everything. They did nail it. Totally. Let's give a moment of silence to the last bullet-time. Oh, thank you. Yes. That was a nice moment of silence. Yes. And that's, that's our episode. All right. Oh, lucky Monday. Lucky Monday. Lucky Monday. I was wondering, I was thinking, are there any places, places where people can find you, Drew, or no? Taco Bell? No, no, I'm, I miss Taco Bell.

39:49Through the drive-thru. Actually, yeah, I have a YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Drew Vosberg, D-R-E-W-V-O-S-B-U-R-G. Um, I don't have a website right now. I was actually working on that just before we spoke, because there was like some kind of cross-site scripting, WordPress garbage that took down my previous one. Oh. So, here we go again. Uh, so eventually my website will be up. It's just my name.com, DrewVosberg.com, and that's pretty much it. Cool. I don't really tweet anymore at this point. Do you, do you, do you, uh, what do you do? Do you use, uh, some kind of framework for Fronten?

40:29Uh, sometimes not what I, I was using Hugo for the backend slash templating for my website, but then I got really annoyed because I couldn't create just like a one-off page as well. That would, anyway, this is like way more. Sorry. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Cause, cause I've been using a work, a react for a little bit. I mean, it's a little bit complex, but it's actually really easy to build website, especially if you do your own styled components. It's actually, it's, it's, it's pretty, pretty quick to get that. thing up. I remember everybody. Welcome to the web minute. Yeah. Get wigs.com. It's so easy to make a website as the week rolls on. Okay. Um, drew for a person who saw the matrix after 10 years,

41:12we were the weird red shift from, from the, from the window. Shut up. You actually, you actually, um, you know, you had a quite to the conversation. Thank you. Thank you for that, sir. Thanks. Glad to be here. By the way, I have a question too. Did you watch the matrix recently at all? Or do you, have you been listening to the podcast? Just like having with the only memory, but the only memory being that of 2006 or whatever. I have not watched it recently. I'm just sort of using the podcast as a way to pull the memories out of my head in the same way that the cables pull Neo into a big spin on the ground in the subway scene. That's good. Awesome. Well, everyone, see you later. Dear listener, thank you for joining us today.

41:53And we will see you on Wednesday. Goodbye. Okay, let's go. So stop it. I think we should stop it just to be safe. As you wish. What? I wish so. Is it too hard for you, Drew? I fear many things. All my different devices. How many devices do you have? Name the files.

42:33Okay, forget it. I'm so scared. I'm so good. Me too. I'm so scared.