Minute 113: “Everything but this.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00And here's the Matrix Minute again. Welcome to the Matrix Minute. Oh, different intro. Yeah, I wanted to change it. I do it so many times. So there we go. Podcast review discussed first from one minute at a time because we love this movie. What if we just had Phil pre-recorded saying the exact same thing? Someone suggested that and, you know, bless you for suggesting it, but imagine how boring that would be. Like just hit play on Phil. Yeah. Yeah, I considered doing that myself for my podcast. And it feels weird for me to just start without having said the introduction. Like it's how I get into character. Excellent. That's good. Because for me, it's the opposite. I don't mind not saying it, but I feel like to maintain continuity.

0:41Well, I think one thing I have to say it's good is that we did maintain continuity with the intro and sort of with our outros. We sort of have this, the consistent ones, which is pretty decent. And by the way, I just wanted to introduce our guest again, Courtney. Courtney. Hello. Yes. He's back with us for one final time. It's Friday. Friday. Oh, it's Friday. Friday. Go get him. Oh, God. There you go. No, no. He's pushing it now. There you go. It's fine. Hey, I'm not coming back on the show, so I can say whatever I want. Exactly. I've already been on Twitter for a chance. Got me there.

1:21I sounded sarcastic. I actually regret even jokingly singing that song. I disgust myself. Oh, it's okay. If you listen to our podcast a little bit later on, like, you know, earlier on, I kind of do what you're doing right there. So it's fine. It's okay. It's not as bad as me. Make a joke and then hate yourself for it. Yeah. Yeah. That bad. I'm going to regret this podcast, Phillip. No, no. I'm good. I'm good. Okay, Phillip. Come on. Yes. Be the host and tell us what happens. Get a hold of yourself. Where are we? What are we doing? What's going on? Okay. Minute 113. Wow. Yeah. Imagine that. Unlucky number. Friday. Minute 113.

2:01Phil, how many episodes do we have left? We're so close to the end. Yeah. I think we have... Yeah. Do we have 15 left? I think we have 15 episodes left. I don't know if you know these things. Oh, my. I usually do the math on these things. By golly, it's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's 128 minutes altogether. What? I can't believe we didn't... We actually managed to do this and not actually miss an episode. We have 18 minutes to go. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. We never missed it. We were late some days, but... Yeah. I've already missed a week because just life is just so demanding. But it was a very important minute, so I didn't want to half-arse it. I wanted to full-arse it.

2:41That's good. That's very admirable. Quality over quantity. Yes. I can't imagine being at... What are we? Almost at two hours, you know, being at that point of my podcast. I can't even believe it. Oh, you will. You will. I don't feel weird. And underwhelming. Underwhelming. Yeah. And all of that structure and preparedness will be gone out of the window. You know, it's so strange because it feels almost like I'm at the point where I have to just keep myself in check not to say the same things because I don't remember like 90% of the things I said. I'm already doing that. I'm 15 minutes in. I'm like, did I talk about this thing? I don't know. I should keep my scripts. I try to go into extreme areas.

3:23Even if it's stupidity, I'd rather say something new in stupid land than repeat myself in factual world. Well, I've listened to the first, I don't know, three or four episodes and I've listened to the most recent two or three. And I can say that, no, it's still entertaining. You guys are still doing a good job. Thank you so much. We appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. That's awesome to hear. We're glad. So, Philip. What happens in minute 113? Well, you tell us. I'll tell you. Go. Smith makes one of the best turns in film history. Meanwhile, before following Morpheus and getting out of the Matrix, Trinity tells Neo that everything the Oracle told her was true. Everything but this. The phone keeps ringing. The L train goes by and the flabbergasted hobo is replaced by Agent Smith, who immediately shoots at Trinity in the phone booth.

4:09She escaped, but the phone is destroyed instead, leaving Neo stuck in the Matrix. This is an action-packed minute, I have to say. His performance is so strange. It's so strange. I mean, all the Wachowski's characters in all their films, the least of which would be Barlam Abrasics, I believe his name is, in Jupiter Ascending, Eddie Redmayne's character. Oh, yeah, that guy. Like, what is this acting style? But I think. Exciting times. Yeah. Exciting times. Yeah, that's the one where I'm like, I don't know if I'm supposed to trust this guy. Like, I don't know how I feel about him.

4:51It's got this very sort of manic grin. I don't. I just. It's hard to articulate. Like, you just get this unnerving feeling from Tank. I think it's because also he's sort of, you know, he's playing that character who's very much the computer guy. You know, he's always at the computer booth and he's sort of. He knows about a lot of stuff, but he doesn't really have any sort of direct, you know, real world experience, so to speak. You know, like he hasn't been in the Matrix. He doesn't. So he's very, like, secluded, but he's also. His personality is one in which he's sort of like, um, provide. He's sort of like the host. He's like the host of the, you know, the neb where he plugs people in and he's like, you know.

5:35Remember, he's joking all the time and saying stuff like, you know, fasten your seatbelts, please. And he sort of provides. Yeah. I feel like he's like the GM. If this is Dungeons and Dragons, he's the GM. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And maybe that's sort of why it's a bit weird. So there's Mouse. Like, Mouse is obviously supposed to be. Mouse is obviously dead, by the way. Yeah. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Yeah. He's obviously supposed to be a bit of a creep. Like, that's his character. Whereas, I was just going, where are they going with Tank? Am I supposed to feel a little uncomfortable around him? What is happening? I never felt really uncomfortable. That's interesting because my perception was always, he's a cool guy. I like him. Yeah. That's how it is for me. But I can see what you mean. Don't talk to strangers on the street.

6:16Yeah. Because I can see what you mean because. He's a little too eager. You know, if someone's that eager around, you go, hmm, they want something. But then again, wouldn't you think that he's so eager because, exactly, because he can't do all these things necessarily? Like, going to the Matrix. That's kind of what we kind of concluded that, you know, because he is not, he doesn't know anything within the Matrix, like as far as being, you know, experiencing it. So, he's very excited to see all these new people come in and him helping them. Yeah. And because he sort of influences, you know, what the characters are doing in the Matrix. He's finding exits. He's giving information. And he sort of, that's his indirect access to.

6:57That's our, yeah, that's kind of our general. But I understand what you mean because, what's his name? The actor's name, I forgot. I usually know all the actor's names by heart, but now I'm just like, oh. Oh, for time. Disappointing, Philip. Disappointing. His sister is Raydan Chong. Yeah, Marcus Chong. Marcus. Marcus Chong. Marcus. Marcus. He, yeah, it doesn't help that when he smiles, if it's a little too excited, it does, it does look a little bit, it does look a little like, you know, what's going on here. Joker-ish. Yeah, ulterior motives. Yeah. Although the same thing with Morpheus. I think he's played as a character that you're not quite sure about.

7:40And I mentioned in a previous episode that that's why he's dressed in the snake skin and the purples and the greens, because you go, is this a good guy? Is this a bad guy? Where, can we trust him? And how we're introduced to him with a lightning flash, and then he turns his head and he has another eager grin. Yeah. At last. You know what, I make references to, welcome to the desert of the real. I say that way too often in real life. Somehow that comes up quite often. No one knows what I'm referencing. So upsetting. Wow. That is sad. Upsetting. These are not exciting times.

8:20Yeah, other acting moments, you know, like I noticed in the beginning, earlier, sort of first 10 minutes of the film, characters are talking to themselves. Like, Neo goes, oh, I'm just an average guy. I didn't do anything to deserve this. What's going on? Oh, I can't do this. You're right. Or Trinity's like, get up, Trinity. Get up. And I feel like that comes from the comic book background that the Wachowskis have. You know, where you have the thought bubbles. Hey, yeah. So. Yeah, I never thought of that. I thought of something you didn't think of. What? That's mostly the whole episode that's on. I do too much research. That's my autistic. I don't know. That's brilliant, though.

9:01That's brilliant. Oh, thank you. Yeah. So you guys have mentioned as well that the Wachowskis really threw everything they loved. You know, all their passions, they just put it into this movie. And I think that comes through in the acting style as well, that they're looking at comic books. They're looking at martial arts films. So you've got this kind of melodrama that is so anachronistic, especially for film at the time. I think nowadays we get some more experimental stuff like Her or The Lobster, which, weirdly enough, both have Joaquin Phoenix in it. Yeah. Tim likes those. I haven't seen them. Sorry.

9:42Okay. But yeah, kind of. I will see them. The dialogue, it's very unusual. Tim, you're so quiet back there. I am not quiet. I'm listening and learning. Okay. Good. Sorry. Also not in this minute, but yeah, I find Switch quite interesting because her costume is all white and she stands out. And I always felt like that was trying to tell us something about her that she was interesting or different or significant in some way. And it just gets killed off. And I go, what was that? The only thing I can think of is that they have two female characters and to differentiate them from each other, you have one in all black and one in all white.

10:25That's all. Right. Not to confuse people. This is the one he loves, not the other one. Yeah. Oh, she has a really horrendous line of dialogue. It's my way or the highway. Oh, yeah. I just, yeah. I still don't know. Like we've discussed this way back in the day. What's wrong with the line? I kind of like that. Because it's, yeah, but like, what does. It's what my dad would say when we were sassing him in the back of the car and he'd pull over. Yep. I don't know. Maybe she gets her upbringing, you know? Maybe she. Yeah. Dad jokes. I mean, they're a bunch of hackers. They're a bunch of nerds.

11:06Don't expect them to, you know. These are not the street thugs. Yeah. They learn the street thuginess from their dads. Yeah. That's. Yeah. That's the thing. They are hackers and this is a very technology dependent film. And yet it doesn't feel like it's a time capsule at all. Like something like Mr. Robot, which is about very real technology right now. It is the director of Mr. Robot. Sam Ismail says, I want this to be a time capsule of right now, which is a cool thing. I think that's clever. But, and that allows them to have this kind of realism where you can have very real computer technology in terms and all of that.

11:47Yeah. But I like that the Matrix kind of went, yes, they're hackers. But it's this fantastic, almost magical world. Whereas hackers, which is the very, the closer equivalent, like, oh God, it tried to be real. And that's what makes it so painful to watch now. I mean, among other things. It's lovely. It's responsible for a whole generation of nerdy old white boys who were, you know, browsing forms. And then they thought, hey, but if I put a trench coat and glasses on, I will be cool because I am a hacker. And then we have some lovely pictures on the internet.

12:28Kids going to school. Oh, yes. We found some wonderful pictures. I love it. It's just like, it's the minimum effort though. It's just like, poof. Blade came out in 98. Yeah. 1998. Yeah. Blade. Yes. Yes. And so, yeah. I mean, obviously Wesley Snipes is a really cool looking guy. And you put the leather full length trench coat on him and the sunglasses, the wraparound sunglasses. And even to this day, like, oh, shoot, he's so cool. He's the coolest. He's my favorite. Like, Blade is still my favorite Marvel character. Hell yeah. Also, I love him in Demolition Man. Oh, my God. He's just cool. But, yeah, you see little nerdy white boys wearing the trench coats and the sunglasses.

13:13And he's like, oh, honey, no. The thing is, though, Keanu Reeves kind of pulls it off, too. You wouldn't think he would. But it works. Can we talk about, we've done this about this, but I think it's appropriate if we talk about costumes. The amazing Jake story. The Jake story. Yes. Go, Jake. Please. Okay. So, this is the moment. Okay. A long time ago, I was 12 years old. This was when, Jacob? This was around 2003, something like that. No, you were 10 in 2003. Whatever. Somewhere around there. 10 or 12. I don't remember. 10, 11. Somewhere there.

13:53I was a boy. I was a little boy. Yeah, I was 11. And at the time, I had long hair as a little boy. And I was pretty chubby. So, it was a very strange time because people mistook me for a girl at the time. Happens to me all the time to this day. Yeah. And what happened was I went to the store in the evening with my mom. And I was like, you know, I want to get a... I'm thinking in my head, in my mind's eye, I have this picture of... You know, we'll get this later, but not this week. Neo, when he does that little, like, come at me sort of move with his hand, right? He does the sort of, like, flexing. After Fighting Smith.

14:34Yeah, after Fighting Smith. He's flexing. And you see the dust sort of, like, boom. You know, come out of his shirt. And he's, like, boom. He's, like, really cool. And he does that little move. And I was like, that shirt is what I'm thinking of. Really cool, tight, black shirt. And you can see the muscles. I'm like, this is going to be great. I'm like, this is what I want. And so I go with my mom to this store. And it's sort of like a... I don't know. This was in Europe. This is a United Colors of Benetton. Sort of, you know, very... I don't know. Who knows what kind of fashion that is. But I went in there and I couldn't find this shirt I was looking for. This tight, black shirt. And so what I find is I find the closest thing,

15:17which was this, like, long-sleeve olive shirt. It had some kind of strange, like, U.S. Navy symbol in the front. Sort of subtle. And it was loose. Close enough. Close enough. And I put it on in the changing room. And I was so disappointed. Because I'm looking at myself in the mirror and this little chubby boy wearing this loose, long-sleeved shirt. And I'm like, where are the muscles? Where are the muscles? Why isn't this tight? Why can't I do the flexing thing? Oh, poor child. And you kind of got that shirt in the end. Oh, you did, Dave. In the end, huh? Maybe tomorrow. Yeah.

15:58And it's just funny because I really thought it was going to happen, but it didn't happen. I just love the fact that... It might have actually been better that it was just... It wasn't so tight-fitting because I imagine it... That would have been probably worse. I would have probably been like, oh, my goodness, what is this belly? I just love that, like, the shirt brings muscles. That's awesome. I love that. That's my favorite story. Yeah, it comes with it. Because I thought, like, you know, the tighter the shirt, the more muscles. That's kid logic. I don't know what that is. It's amazing. But anyway, that's my favorite. So, yeah, around the same time, little Courtney would have been dressing the same way. And, I mean, yeah, very skinny. So, again, not that impressive. And I think I was wearing girls' boots because I'm very small

16:39and they don't make boots like that for boys mostly. But I really wanted the steel cap, but you can't get those anywhere. Yeah. You mean, like, not the outer ones. You get it, like, within the shoe, you know, like any sort of construction ones, but they don't put them outside. Yeah. Is that what you mean? The actual, yeah, there's, like, the steel toe on the outside of Neo's boots. But... That's the Neo boots, yeah. They had that, like, up front. But I think they were, like, covered, though. Oh, there's a... I don't think so. No, but we can link you to the actual boots we found them. You can buy it. And it's, like, a little mesh, actually. It's, like, a little chain mail on front. And they have, like, these weird logos. It's a really strange boot. It's funny. We were looking at it. Like, this is not how I remember this boot.

17:21It's got actually a lot of details. It looks pretty metal, not true. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to flick to the minute where they're doing the shoot-up in the lobby. And I am not far there. It is okay. Yeah, did you see it? Anything? Eh, that's Trinity. Go away, Trinity. I'm talking to you. It's not about you. And it's not about you, Agent Smith, either. God damn it. There we go. Oh, I am... Oh, yes. Oh. Yeah, all these years, I thought it was metal. Like, a solid sheet of metal. Or maybe, like, a corrugated effect.

18:02God, that's so cool. Yeah, we all kind of thought this. Yeah, that happens. But it's, like, you think you remember it, but then you see it, and you're like, oh. And you're like, oh. 14-year-old me loves those boots forever. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I also went through a phase where I wore red goggles on my head as an homage to Hellboy. Yes. Really? Really? Wow. Yeah, that's what an arsehole. But that's, I mean, that's pretty cool. Where did you get the red goggles? It's kind of, yes, cyber-fuck. We were in Sydney. They have these markets there. Is it Paddington? Yeah, Paddy's Markets. And there was just this little stall this guy had of, like, sports goods and ski equipment

18:43and stuff for some reason. And then there were these red goggles there. And I just went, yes, I need these. That's amazing. So you also had something. A story. A story. Indeed. Apparently, I'm just going to spend my whole life dressing as fictional characters. Hey, why not? That sounds excellent. Why not? It's a freedom. You can do, you know. And the cool thing is that, you know. It's better. I mean, much more interesting than just, you know. Normcore? Yes. Thank you. Normcore. I was about to say, yeah. That's the thing is, a friend of mine was talking about it as well, is that if you look around at most people, the way they cut their hair or what they're wearing and stuff, it is basically everything that's been marketed to them.

19:26And so you can really tell what era it is. But he said, well, you're kind of outside of time in that sense. You know, you're dressing like David. Exactly. Who's modeled himself after T.E. Lawrence. So, like, I've got this 1940s haircut. So, I think if I were to look at photos of myself years from now, I'm not like, oh, my God, that's such a, you know, 2010s look. It's like, it's sort of anachronistic. Yeah. So, that's pretty cool. But I think you can't go wrong, though. That's the thing. If you find something unique, you know, like, it's your thing. You don't have to, you know, it's not going to date you in terms of fashion. Courtney Corson, man. Out of time.

20:06Hell yeah. I was going to, we're going to talk about Switch. Anything you have to say, yeah. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Nintendo Switch. Yes. That's all I think of these days, too. I know. Yeah. Her character in terms of costume, again, you know, this is the first movie I really paid attention to, the costumes, and I felt like they were very much characters in their own right, and they were telling this nonverbal story. Uh, and when it came to Switch, my eyes were always drawn to her because she's wearing white, and I go, ah, she must be important. Yeah. Something's going to happen with her later on. So, I was really paying attention to her, and then nothing happened. She just gets killed in a movie.

20:47Yeah, well, it's too bad. I mean, most of the characters, Switch included, in the Nebuchadnezzar crew, I think they're all quite memorable. You know, like, you get to know them in a certain way, like, very fast. Yeah. But they have to serve the story and become catalysts to, uh... That's actually a lot like the crew of the Nostromo, you know, where... Yeah. ...you get a good sense of everybody, but then Dallas is killed offscreen, Brett and Parker, uh, I think, uh, Watson, Lambert. Like, they all die offscreen. You don't actually know what happens in Eon. I do, yeah. So, it's pretty, uh, underplayed.

21:29So, I guess in an ensemble film, that's not unexpected. It actually kind of makes sense just to keep the plot rolling along until you have a sense of the danger. But, yeah, it always frustrated me there going, but why is she in white? He didn't give me an answer. I felt like I was promised something that was never fulfilled. Yeah, I know. I mean, if we had the Wachowskis on, I would ask him. Yeah, that'd be great. Let's get them. Oh, wait. Yes. I was going to say, um, what's... Yeah, go ahead. The, well, one possible thing, and I don't know if it's in... Is there a script, an early script online anywhere of the... I can send you the ones I have, because we always, you know, we have this little segment, yeah, called the, like, 1986 draft or whatever we do, and we have a wonderful jingle for it

22:14as well, and I always read from that to see the differences. And, yeah, I'll send it to you. I don't have a jingle for my script segment. Oh, I'm missing out. Oh, just ask Jake. He'll make you a jingle. Yeah, you can ask me, and I'll make you one. Yeah. Yeah. So, Switch, I heard rumors that she was intended to be a trans woman, I think. Is that actually... Well, you talked about this earlier. Yeah, we have. And Phil found, when we're going through the 96 script, or was it a 96 script, or was it a concept art? No, like, it's not in the script. It's early idea stuff. It's not actually mentioned in the... Yeah. It's a piece of trivia that's online, but it's not in the script at all. No. I just think that would have been so cool, just to give the crew more dimension.

22:59Yeah. Absolutely. And maybe... Just to refresh everyone. So, the idea was that Switch would be... Was it male in the... In the real world, because you can't, you know, like, there's no way you can change it in the room. And then when he goes into the Matrix, he'd be female, right? Yeah. And so, that was sort of the idea to play with those ideas in the film. Yeah. Yeah. I think that would have been interesting, honestly. Because I feel like there was so much... Just in costume alone, like, nothing about Switch's character in the script would make her stand out, but it's just the costume really makes you think, oh, she must be important somehow. Maybe that's like a remnant of the idea. You know what I mean? I don't know. Yeah. She does look a little androgynous.

23:40Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know. But, you know. Yeah. And yeah, I guess now that it's the Wachowski sisters watching this movie again and going, I wonder if there's some subtext there. Because I know other directors who, you know, were closeted gay or otherwise queer or had any other sort of, you know, identity issues that they were exploring. You can't help but... I mean, I think anyone who's done any writing, you can't help but infuse yourself in your work. Oh, yeah. Exactly. And especially The Matrix feels... Yeah. The Matrix feels like a very personal work. For the sisters. So, I was going, I wonder if there's some kind of queer subtext to be had. As far as I can tell...

24:21Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, I mean, you can... If you're looking for it, you'll find it. But, yeah. It's not over. But... Yeah. I feel like The Matrix, I don't know. I've only seen from the Wachowskis, to be honest, I've only seen Bound and this. And Speed Racer. Speed Racer! And it seems like The Matrix... Oh my God, Speed Racer. I think there might be some subtext. But I feel like, overall, it seems like it wasn't necessarily a central idea. I think they were exploring so much. Yeah. This is the action movie. It's sort of the action. The Wachowski action film. I think Lana transitioned during the sequel. So, hmm.

25:02Maybe. Yeah. That's right. Oh, good point. I don't know. That's a good question. I didn't think about that. Because I think Cloud Atlas is a fantastic queer subtextual story. Because it's about, you know, the spirit remains the same, but the body changes. Like, oh my God, yeah. Okay. Clearly, this is a transgender metaphor. Yeah. And with The Matrix, I mean, you are talking about these two different worlds. You know, a world where, you know, it's digital and you can control it to a degree if you're the one. And then there's this real world where you're just stuck in one body. I mean, you can kind of try and find some queer parallels, but yeah, it's not as overt as Cloud Atlas. Yeah. Yeah. But it is like, you know, maintaining your own identity in like away from the stranglehold of systematic, like, you know, what am I going to say?

25:54Like anti-vipression matrix predisposed, pre-established rules. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, that's part of the story. Because like, that's the interesting thing. All these characters, when they get out of The Matrix, they're not going to call each other like, hey, Thomas, what's up, Tommy? That's true, yeah. Hey, Neo. That's a good idea, too. Because the aliases. Ah, yeah, that's true. And there's a scene where, actually, I think, coming up very soon where, you know, Agent Smith is always Mr. Anderson. And Neo's like, my name is Neo. So, and yeah. Yeah, okay. So, that could be something to that, you know? Sort of dead naming. Yeah. He's being dead named. Like, sort of like choosing your own identity. Yes. Because this might be the idea.

26:34I feel like that's a very easy thing to spot when you're watching it. Like, when you're discussing it like we are right now. And everybody's calling each other by their hacker names. Their names that they chose for themselves. Yeah. Instead of what the system gave them. Predisposed. It's assigned to them. Yeah. Hmm. So, yeah. I was really struggling to find some queer subtext there. But I think we found it. Yeah. I think there's that kind of, that little nugget there. Yeah. That. There might be some other more subtle ones. But I guess you have to. But yeah, you know, the focus of the movie is, of course, a, you know, action sort of adventure. Plot driven sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff out there as well.

27:16So, that's okay. For sure. So, here we have the next sequence, which is Trinity. And deciding. Oh, Trinity is deciding to, yeah. The worst time ever to reveal to Neo the oracles and her feelings. Yeah. So, she's like, everything, everything is gone. Everything the oracle said has come true. Everything but this. I know. What is going on? This is what, because we find out later on what the oracle told her. And we find out only one thing. Right? Am I correct, Phil? She only says whatever, you know, like, I'll fall into the one. Right? But she says everything she said. Like, why would you say, she would say that one thing that the oracle told me would come true.

27:59She wouldn't say everything she told me about this. That means she told her at least, like, a bunch of things. Oh, my goodness. I didn't think about that. No, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, I'm going to spoil this. What are the other things? Well, okay. I'm going to just spoil this by talking about something she says in the future. Okay. She says, the oracle told me that I would fall in love and the one who I'd fall in love with would be the one. And I think that could that be a context for everything? Well, no. That doesn't explain it because it's still talking about falling in love with the one. Everything she said, that means, like, oh, there were at least ten things. If you, like, in a conversation, if you say, oh, wait, I figured it out. Yeah, what? I figured it out. Maybe she's talking about everything the oracle has said for everyone else. I was thinking the same thing.

28:40Yeah. So she's saying she's been right all along, but she hasn't been right about this yet. What? I'm not in love with you yet? Well, because I think that she's obviously fallen in love with Neo, but I think that Neo hasn't shown that back. And so she's wondering, like, why didn't it happen yet? No, no, no. But the oracle told her she'll fall in love with the one, right? So what does she mean by this? Except this. What is this? She's expecting Neo to... No, no, that's not part of the bargain. But maybe she's reading it like that. Courtney, what do you think? Yeah, what do you think? What does she mean? Yeah. What do you want? And now I'm analyzing that since she wants... Just... Oh, this happens in Prometheus all the time where you go, hang on.

29:21Wait, no, that's just leading to more questions. And why? Hang on. Oh, no. Yeah. It's one of those things that in the moment you're watching it and going, oh, that kind of makes sense. Yeah, that seems appropriate. And then, yeah, no, it doesn't hold up to analysis. I don't know. Because... I just... Yeah, go ahead. The only answer would, yeah, probably be that she's aware of the things that other people have heard from the Oracle. Although I don't know if they discuss their private sessions with the Oracle. Not under Morpheus's rules. He's like, no. No, no one talk about this. Morpheus just makes that rule up. Okay, guys, sorry. She does. I am pro Morpheus. I'm sorry.

30:01I am not. I want to give the... I want to cut the guy some slack, to be honest. I think... I think he's doing good. He has good intentions. He's a little stubborn about it. But I think that he would probably be like, if you want to talk about what the Oracle told you, you may. I'm not stopping you. But not outside this room. I think for the camera, he plays it nice. But I think he beats them probably at night. What did I tell you? Do not talk about what we... Talk with the Oracle. I swear to God, boy. Really quick, I wanted to say, with the Trinity thing, I just think, this is my interpretation, that Trinity is expecting or expected that everything will fall into place for her with

30:48the Neo scenario. That's what I think. And she's seeing that it's not falling into place. She has feelings for him, but why isn't Neo doing anything? And I think she's disappointed. That's why she's trying to tell him, hey, this is what happened. You didn't tell her, you'll get married and he'll live happily after. She says, you'll fall in love. Well, but maybe Trinity read it like that. No, but what? Like, come on. If somebody says you'll fall in love, you don't expect to be in love back. Like, that's just that you'll fall in love with that person. And she feels that. Okay, then why is she telling this to Neo? That's what I'm asking. Like, this doesn't make sense. I'm just giving you an answer to what I think. I can't think of anything else. This thing is dumb. We should just edit it out. Yeah, probably. Probably. And on top of that, like we said, the phone is ringing.

31:31Like, come on. Yeah. Making Neo wait there and like, who doesn't want to pick that up? He has no idea what's going on. What do you want to say? And second of all, an agent is on the tail. Like, I'm still confused. I think it may be something in the old script. Sorry? Nothing. I'm just explaining. Oh, yeah. The old script, right. I've been lazy about that. I'm so sorry, everybody. Can you maybe check? Next minute, I will just go back in time and we'll talk about this 1996 script. I'm so sorry. I came unprepared. Because I'm really curious. Because I think there must be like a remnant of something old. Because I think this feels like it's referencing things that are not in the movie. But I don't know. We'll find out. We'll find out next time. Anyway, go on. Next time. What else is there? I'm actually, I feel like The Matrix is so self-contained.

32:12You know, especially nowadays, a lot of movies, they always have a franchise in mind. They always think about sequels. So you don't get a nice, self-contained, beginning to end story. That's sad. Whereas, this is, yeah, this is definitely one of those. Where it is, there's just so much. I mean, that's why you're doing a minute by minute review. That's right. There's just so much to be had here. And it's, yeah, it is. It knows exactly what it is. It establishes the whole world. It's not like, oh, we're hinting at this thing that will be resolved two movies from now. Which annoys me so much. If they do, at least they keep it on a very subtle form.

32:54Because, like, I would suggest that maybe one of the things that they were going to do would be Agent Smith going rogue and becoming more self-aware. And it's in this movie, but it's not detracting or, like, taking away from the story at hand. You know what I mean? It's a world-building thing where you go, ah, yes, these characters have their own lives going on. And there's these subplots here that existed before we, the viewer, showed up. Whereas, yeah, nowadays it's like, oh, yes, we'll set up all this stuff. We don't get anything else. Actually, Prometheus is a major example of that. It does not feel self-contained. It really doesn't feel like that's the whole story.

33:35That's, like, the first act of something bigger. And then Alien Covenant goes in a totally different direction. Like, what are you doing, Ridley Scott? I love you, you madman. I love that music, though. That's my favorite theme. It's one of my favorite most recent... Prometheus, or what? Yeah. It's pretty beautiful. So good. Tim hates it, though. What? I didn't say it. What? I don't even... I'm kind of conflicted because... I had talked about this in my own show, but that it feels... I mean, it's by a different composer. So Mark Streitenfeld did all the music, except for that theme, which is Harry, Gregson, Williams. And I just go, this doesn't fit, but I like it on its own.

34:18And then watching Alien Covenant, and then it's actually this song that David wrote for sure. So it's like, okay, I have more appreciation for it now. Yeah, yeah. I'd say so. Okay. Whereas, the Matrix, having seen the sequels, I don't feel like anything's been retconned or totally shifted. It's like, what you get in the Matrix is the story, and it's just so solid. You don't get solid movies anymore. Yeah. I totally agree with that. Totally agree. It's so nicely contained. Okay, so the hobo, he's... Before he leaves, he's played by Harry Lawrence. Oh? That's all I know. That's it. It's mysterious. That's the hobo named Harry Lawrence.

34:59He did hit a bunch of other stuff, but it kind of stops at 2000. 2000. Okay. I hear he rescued puppies from a burning building. Some say... Yeah. Some say that he is the originator of... Oh, God. What's that? Crocs? Oh, the S shape. In school, did you ever do that, like, chain link S symbol? Oh, yes. Yes. That's him, huh? Yeah, he's the one who invented it. Yeah. Yeah. He's amazing. He's like, he sat one day and was like, if I put these six lines and I connect them, I

35:41make an S. Oh, dude. What a genius. That's amazing. So, yeah, that's that hobo guy, though. That's super smart, dude. And it's so sad. Look at his story. Now he's in a hobo. Now he's an agent. I know. Hopefully he didn't turn the video off. He gets the Matrix Codes on his face, which we talked about, and I don't know, I think they're cheesy. Yeah, that's the one thing that I think is a little cheesy. Yeah. Matrix Codes. I don't know what's up with that, but whatever. Matrix Code really got dated. I don't think it will ever come back as a cool thing anymore. You mean in general, or what? Oh, you mean like as a designer, right? Yeah, because... Just like, because everyone had it as their screensaver, and... Yeah, so we're talking about that. Oh, yeah.

36:21I think there's a lot of really cool... I've actually not talked about Synthwave much yet, but Synthwave is really replacing cyberpunk, or maybe it's like a more modern version of it, which started as a music genre, but it's... So Synthwave is electronic music inspired by 1980s movies. So, I mean, everyone's obsessed with 80s right now. And so, yeah, I think it's the replacement for cyberpunk, because it is very much about technology and science fiction and stuff, but with that nostalgic quality. Yeah. Until, you know, cyberpunk will become nostalgic again, you know? Yeah, I'm wondering, so... The cycle continues. Yeah. Well, the 90s are back in, but cyberpunk doesn't seem to be because we've got Synthwave, and

37:06there's also Vaporwave, which is more of a 90s version of that, yeah. I listen to Vaporware in work. It's kind of depressing. There's something melancholy about it. I just know Vaporware. Yes. Yeah. I just know vaping. Yeah. It's got nothing to do with that, but it's okay. Okay. Vaporware is a music that's constructed from 90s and 80s and early 2000s commercial work. So, let's say commercials, or let's say, you know, like the music you listen to... Well, like the Capri Sun commercials we were talking about with Patrick Worms. Or let's say, you know, like when you pick up a phone and the company, you know, like a secretary puts you on hold, that like really shitty music that you hear. Oh, yeah.

37:46But anything that's designed for corporate, you know, or for commercial work, you kind of remix that into that very sort of weird... It's a combination of nostalgia and combination of just like electronic music, and it's just lovely to listen to work. That sounds really interesting. You should send me some stuff. Okay. I'll send you. Jacob 2-2, I think that's his name. He does really good. I think he's from Japan. He does really good. He's his production a little bit more like Vaporware can be from anything of just somebody taking a track from, you know, on a whole phone and putting an echo on it. That could be a Vaporware song or someone who does an actual production. Yeah, it's kind of got this polyphonic quality to it often.

38:27Mm-hmm. Polyphonic. So kind of like cell phone sort of music. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not like... So Synthwave will have more 8-bit sounds and stuff coming through, but that polyphonic sound that you got in the late 90s, early 2000s on the old Nakias and all that. Yeah, that's what you get in Vaporwave. Ah, very interesting. Hmm. I'm fascinated with all the... Well, actually, I think, again, The Matrix probably started that. Subcultures and how they're so intrinsically linked to music and also the timelessness of all the... Yeah. They are time removed.

39:09All subcultures, really. Cyberpunk in today versus 1990s, eh, not that different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. They just stay still, I guess, because they have a general focus in mind. Yeah, it's not this ready-to-wear mask commercialization. So Agent Smith wakes up. Yeah, he wakes up. After taking over the famous... Good morning, children. Yeah, the famous originator of the S. And he gets up and Trinity is super slow at picking up this phone. Well, that's because she feels kind of awkward now that she mentions... It's slow motion. You can see the regret in her eyes where she's like, maybe I shouldn't accept this.

39:50I know. It's sad. It's slow motion, guys. Actually, I'm looking at her going, no, this is wrong. This is a bad moment. You can just tell she's going to... Yeah. She got halfway... Have you ever done that where you're going to tell someone something like, actually, no, you don't care. Well, this is really not appropriate right now. And... Yeah, yeah. God, I've got to finish the sentence, don't I? Yeah. But, yeah, looking at the Matrix code, like, it's these Chinese or maybe Japanese characters. It's Japanese. You've got numbers. Yeah. That's really interesting. So, I mean, it should just be ones and zeros, but they... And it's not even... It's... Oh, yeah, I'm seeing now. It's vertical as well. Like, it's very unique... Yeah, it's going down like rain.

40:32Yeah. It's much more textural than real code. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I mean, I think, like, the Matrix code, like you're mentioning, I feel like, like you said, because it's sort of been overused in, like, screen savers and t-shirts and stuff, it's kind of, you know, it's been kind of made sort of junkier. But the Matrix code by itself, I think, looks really great when used in context, like, on the screen. In the movie. Like, when the movie opens, it just goes... It's so specific for this film that it works, I think. But, yeah. Yeah, you got a good point. So, Agent Smith shoots the phone booth. Before that, Trinity, the shot of her, like, putting her hand up towards the glass.

41:15Oh, yes, yes, yes. It's like the beginning. Oh, I love that. It's like one of the nicest shots. It's a parallel to the intro. Yeah. Sequence. Phone booth. Mm-hmm. She's always ready for death. Wow. Okay, Tim. Yeah, I like those sorts of parallels. Like, my favorite movie, one of my favorite movies, is Robocop, because it's a complete circle. Everything that happens, like, it's inverted. So, you know, something that happens in the first scene is inverted in the final scene, and then so on and so forth until they kind of meet in the middle. There's an article somewhere where they actually detail how the film mirrors itself so perfectly.

41:56That's amazing. And, oh, my artistic brain is lit on fire. Yeah. I haven't seen Robocop in years, but I know what you mean, and I was going to mention that The Matrix does a similar thing, because we do... It's not the full circle that Robocop is, but it does go back to the beginning when it's at the end. Yeah. We end up in the same hotel from the beginning. Oh, I'm just realizing I haven't really talked about the real-world costumes. That's right. Oh, my goodness. Oh, goodness. But this is a perfect opportunity. Yeah. Everyone tends to focus on the very cool superhero costumes, but watching it now, I realize, oh,

42:43actually, they're doing some really nice, clever things with the costumes in the real world, and you get a sense of world building through that. So in terms of color palette, they've obviously gone for the complete opposite. They're wearing very soft, warm, pastel colors. You've got creams and pale blue. You've got wine and gray, but still keeping it fairly soft. And then texturally, it's the complete opposite as well. You've got these loose knitted jumpers, which that kind of knit, at least to my eye, looks hand knitted. Like, this is something that they are having to construct themselves.

43:24You don't really get very heavily structured or tailored clothing at all. I mean, that just wouldn't make any sense. And even the weathering, like, on Morpheus's, he's got this kind of almost karate-gy type robe thing. Oh, you're right. It's this cream-gray color. But the weathering is actually blue. Really? I mean, some movies, yeah. So for the most part, when you wear the costumes, you will go for your browns, blacks, grays, because that's what real clothing would get, you know, when it gets dirty. But they've actually gone for a blue there, which just, it's just much more appealing.

44:05Don't know why they chose that. Well, it does work with the real world, because what they wanted to do with the real world is just give it a blue hue for everything. Yeah, I love that, where the two worlds are so clearly defined, but in a subtle way. And it's very blue in the real world, and then the Matrix very green. Yeah, my impression with the real world clothes is that, you know, they have to sort of like, it's like winter wear, they have to keep warm, because it's so cold in the Nebuchadnezzar. Yeah. It looks very cold in the Nebuchadnezzar. You know, so it's like whatever material they can use that will, you know, keep the heat from escaping their bodies. I wonder if... Does that mean... Well, you can make wool out of a lot of different things.

44:48Like, it doesn't need to be derived from animals. You can even use human hair, although... Okay, really? That's where more of his hair went. Yeah. Donated to all the others. So I think from memory... Actually, I had to look this up for a very recent episode of Prometheus by a minute. So, human hair is like 50 micrometers across, and then most sheep that you're looking at about 20 to 30. And then this particular suit that Charlize Theron wears in Prometheus is this insanely expensive wool. And it's from this Vicuna llama.

45:31Sounds super exotic. It is. Yeah, they cannot be domesticated because they starve themselves in domestication. They only live in the mountains somewhere in South America. So once a year, they go out, round them up, shave them, let them go again. So it's like $1,000 per meter. Oh, my goodness. And that is the finest wool known to man. It's five micrometers in width. It's the softest thing you will ever feel. People describe it as feeling like satin or silk, but it's also really warm. So... So, so nice.

46:11The ultimate cloth. Yeah, I'd love to actually feel that. I can't even imagine. But human hair, and this is what I'm presuming they've got to work with. Yeah, it's very coarse. It's very rough. And not very warm, because the thicker the hair, for some reason, the less warm it is. I don't know why. That's weird. Yeah. I guess maybe because it's less soft. I don't know. Yeah. I love how you doubted yourself after that statement. Immediately. Immediately. I often ask questions and then doubt myself. So it's normal. Normal behavior. I think because it's the individual hairs are thicker, which allows for more air to get in and out. Whereas the thinner it is, the tighter it's bound.

46:52Yes. That's all I have to do. Perfect. Thank you. That's what I was thinking, but I couldn't use words. And that must be, because there's no animals, as far as we can tell. They don't have any livestock. Maybe they do over in Zion. I mean, they could use tasty wheat and somehow it's a synthetic combination. What if in the future they invent synthetic generators for wool? Or they are incapable of making wool. Well, you can use polyester. Polyester wool is terrible. But yeah, so maybe they are just making... Well, imagine how horrible it was polyester. The shocks. Right, right. The shocks would be horrible. Like, let's, you know, let's plug them. Oh! Oh! The shocks. But, um...

47:32I mean, the costumes look really comfortable. Like, I would wear that. Oh, yeah. It's pretty good. Totally. Maybe they lost the ability to make clothes, so they really just have to hunt for, like, roam around the world and just find old clothes. Yeah. From the yester year. This vault doesn't have dogs. I'm so upset. Yeah, I know. I know. They find the shirt that Jake bought many years. Yeah. It's like in the rubble. This looks perfect. Yeah, just the rubble. Just pull it out. I will certainly have muscles when I put this on. Yes. I was going to say really quickly... It's in the same pile as my Hellboy goggles. Yeah. Yeah, it's like right next to it. I was going to say, you know what would be great? Maybe not great, but this is just weird thoughts. What if they wore scarves?

48:13Yeah, they should. More if it had a nice scarf. Yeah. I would have liked that. And they got little fingerless gloves, little niched ones. Oh, well, Tank has some. That's true. Tank does have some. That's true, yeah. It was very cool. I feel like one character could have had a scarf. Maybe like, you know, Switch. Switch. Yeah. I don't know. Mouse would be pretty scary. Just like his eyes peeking out and ears. Okay, that's a bit too much. That's way too anime. Yeah. Are you going to say goggles as well? Is that what you're going to say? No one has goggles. That's the strangest thing. No. Yeah, this is a cyberpunk movie and there's no bloody goggles. I'm so offended. I bet those guys in the 96th group. No one has those like slinky dreadlocks that all the cyber golf girls have. I'm just so happy that that decision was not.

48:56That's the great thing though, I think, about The Matrix is that let's say you're talking about these clothes, let's say in the real world, and they allude to things, you know, and there's a certain flavor, but they don't go all out in being too wild with it. Because if you do, then you immediately shift the focus of your movie into having a very, you know, out there flavor. But The Matrix is actually quite subtle. It just turned into the Matrix and it's just turned into a full on just BDSM, just like, just leather straps. And Neo's like, oh. Yeah, and Neo's like, oh, okay. Are you going to that? Yeah, this is my combat gear.

49:38Yes, my boobs are almost hanging out. Why? That's not a problem. It's, you know, to distract the enemy. Yeah. I'm sorry. Like, The Matrix Online, I was looking at that the other day because I just, yeah, I've been Oh, the game. Nostalgic. And it was so weird looking at, I was watching videos, people recorded of the final day of Matrix Online, which was really creepy. I think we watched that once. Why creepy? Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, this ties into this vibe I get from The Matrix as well. Old video games really creep me out because I guess it's that sense of reality, like you're,

50:18you know, you're following a character, you're kind of anthropomorphizing it, but then you're going, oh, this isn't real. It's all a simulation. Like, you're so aware of the walls and the barriers of this digital world. There's something, I don't know, uncanny and eerie about it. Yeah. Yeah. And so watching video games. Yeah. Yeah. See, I tend to like games like Uncharted, where it's a very, it's very natural. It's set in a very organic, ancient world. So I don't know. I mean, I like Mass Effect as well, but yeah. I was going to be like video games that are based on like realer places. And yet here we are talking about sci-fi.

50:59Yeah. I'm a contradiction. I guess it is. Yeah. In terms of what I like to play. I want to visit places that do exist on earth or it's the natural. And like, yeah, I think I don't get to visit the outdoors very often. So the idea of climbing mountains and all that sort of stuff is appealing to me. Yeah. But watching, yeah, the Matrix online, the way everyone had designed their avatar. I mean, I was just thrown back to LiveJournal back in like 2005 and everyone's got like this cyber goth look going on and it's just so over the top. So yes, I'm glad that the Matrix showed some restraint. Yeah. I got to check that out. I think after like the Matrix, like revolutions, about the time that came out, I was like so

51:43like over it, over the Matrix. Well, I think it's because the movies themselves didn't do a good job. And so I was just like, I was very like over it. It felt a little commercialized. Yeah. It just felt like they went. So there was a long period of time where I didn't really, I never saw the path of Neo games. I never seen the, you know, the Matrix, whatever MMO thing. So I'm really, I'm going to go check these things out because I completely forgot those things existed. But I want to see that. I'm always fascinated by the sort of marketing and expanded universe stuff for any movie. I always like looking into that and going, well, how did they, I'm doing that with Prometheus, you know, going, how did they market this and what were they using?

52:25Because a lot of them tend to want to, especially if it's a genre movie, use the technology of the time to sell the product. So, yeah, so the Matrix was using online video games, which was kind of a novel. That was pretty new. All this, well, the MMOs. And then Prometheus was using a lot of new mobile technology and apps and stuff. So, yeah, it's like, well, this is what was relevant in 2003. This is what's relevant in 2012. So you kind of get this, you get a sense of the culture at the time and the technology. And I find that fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I lost it. Sorry. I've been talking a long time, so I forgot what to say.

53:09I can talk forever. Well, we're very happy that you, that you are. It's really nice. Totally. Is there anything else? I think in the minute, I think there's nothing else really to cover. I think we talked about the whole thing, right? Because the agent shoots Trinity and then we get this magical, someone holding the phone up. As it explodes. Yes. I'm referring to the exploding phone. There's a shot, just for the listeners. Because I realize that we talk about sometimes shots and we don't describe them. The shot is... I try as best I can to describe it. Yeah. Good job. I'm running out of energy right now, though. To just put the video there, but unfortunately we would get shot on the spot. Oh my God, it's almost midnight. Holy shit. Oh, dude.

53:49I'm so sorry. Well, we're just about done. No, I don't go to bed. We're wrapping it up. I don't go to bed until like two or three, so it's fine. But I was just like, whoa, wait the time, girl. What's reality? Yeah. It's pretty wild. And so the phone gets shot and... I like it. There's a shot of the phone just sticking up in the air. Yep. Time flies when you're having fun, guy. I... That's right. It was fun. It was true. I'm just... Sorry. I'm just starving. Yeah, me too. I'm a little bit low energy as well. I apologize to everyone publicly. You made it, guys. Hungry boys. We've got three hours. We made it. We got it. Woo. Yes. Yes. Woo. So, thanks to Courtney. These were three super good episodes, I have to say. I really enjoyed hanging out with you, Courtney.

54:30And I enjoyed... Like, honestly, the information you brought and like the research is like really... A-grade. Yeah. Oh, man. Totally A-grade. Oh, too kind. Us old farts repeating ourselves. Yeah, exactly. It was so refreshing to have you on to talk about this stuff and especially new stuff that we didn't know about because, you know, obviously we just use the word cloth and that's it in terms of our expertise of costumes and stuff. So, I have to say, I really appreciate that you came on and, you know, shared all this stuff with us because you've enhanced the podcast. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So much by your presence. My work here has done me. You should be proud, man. You should be proud. Yeah. Just spreading the awareness that, you know, the costumes are telling a story too.

55:14And it is there if you look for it. And it's very, you know, it's something to overlook very easily as evidenced by us. So, you know, it's great that when, you know, when you can talk about that because it's so true, like I said, they are telling a story and they're so important, you know, otherwise, you know, it's all part of the storytelling. Well, that's the submersion of like, I can't talk anymore. It's amazing. The submersion of the, oh, oh, oh. Oh, man. I mean, I meant, I meant, I meant. Just say what I meant once. What is it called? It's the thing where you believe you're watching something real.

55:54Suspension of disbelief? Yes. Yes. I like pills. The thing when you watch. Can't even say it. Never mind. The thing when you want and if you want to. And if that's an old meme, my God. There's this video of a little boy. I don't even know what it's from, but he's trying to get a sentence out for about five minutes and he can't. He's like, when you want, like, it's a, um, and then when you want. Oh, it sounds like me right now. Okay. Well, I have one final question. I'm looking through my notes. Maybe you can help me. Shoot. Who escaped the matrix first? Oh. There is a, Morpheus says there was a guy what could control the matrix.

56:38And then he's like, well, when you're over 9,000, it's pretty boring. So I'm going to escape and bring some people with me. Okay. Okay. All right. So, um, this is a, you know, I mean, this people who are listening to this definitely should already be aware that there are sequels and the sequels kind of explain that in a retroactive way. And with that, cause that's the only bit of information you can have with this. And that's fine. What does that mean? Huh? Oh, you mean the only information is the sequels? Yeah. That's the only reference point. There's no more other. Yeah. Like when the first movie came out, there really wasn't any kind of hint at something else that you could draw from. So I'm going to just use the reloaded. Uh, the architect says. It was an engineer. Oh, wouldn't that be something?

57:20Uh, um, yeah, well, the architect. So far I've tried to connect the matrix to alien and blade runner. Yeah. Well, it's not, it's not, it's not too much of a stretch to be honest. Like, um, uh, this is a, they find a Weyland Yutani ship crashed somewhere. Oh dude. Imagine that. Then no one, no one did that. Like there's always these comics where it's like aliens versus, you know, Terminator versus Robocop versus so-and-so. Yeah. There was no aliens versus matrix. Makes sense for Weyland Yutani, like who's going to bomb the atmosphere that to destroy all life on earth? Like Weyland Yutani, of course. The evil company. But they got bought out by Walmart in Alien 4.

58:00Yes. I love that one. Um, yeah. So what I wanted to say was that the, uh, like the architect explains that, uh, there has been five versions already of the same cycle going on with the one. So like the, so I'm assuming that the first one was the machines. They, they made up this whole one prophecy and they just freed how many, like a dozen people. 10 billion. Yeah. And one of them was the one and they just reloaded the matrix every time they made a new one. And that's about it. It's always a deal. It was like a deal. So, so spiritually you could say, Oh, with, you know, it's the one reincarnated. It's the same person coming up in the new body every time. Or you could view it as, you know, as a dry thing.

58:42Well, the machines are always in control. They choose a bunch of people and, you know, they say, and then the one will come later on, whatever. So it's, could be just a bunch of people. Yeah. It's the thing with, um, you know, that scene where there's all the TV screens and you see all these different versions of Neo. It's like, so in the real world. So has he just been, is he immortal? Like, is he the only one that they've reset the universe over and over again, but he stays the same, but what? What do you mean? You know what they could do? That's an interesting topic because no one knows what the other ones looked like. And so you could argue that, you know, every hundred years when the matrix has to reload, they always load a Thomas Anderson character archetype.

59:24So you're saying that, I don't know. I'm so lost. Are they using the same genes? Cause yeah, I mean, he comes, you know, he's released from the matrix. He looks the same as he does in the matrix. So they might actually be recycling the same genes. If they're producing the same people, we can't rule it out. They could just have the archive of, of, you know, a bunch of people and they just, you know, produce them as they, as they need, you know, maybe cause we were talking about how do they reproduce, you know, like in everything. And maybe just, they, they don't actually just, well, you know, but then it would expect the people to look like them because they have sex. So you can't just like clone from like a bank. Well, they seem to be in suspended time.

1:00:04It's just 1999 forever. So if you were to fall pregnant, technically speaking, that child never exists. Like you are just stuck in this moment, expecting a baby that will never happen. What kind of hell? Maybe they have a reset button every nine months. So yeah, you just, you just, you just, you're always stuck in that. Super complicated. All right. So what was that? Oh man, this is like, have you seen The Good Place? No. What? Not yet. Not yet. I'm still catching up on some. It's kind of like, not to spoil it, but yeah, that kind of resetting universe thing. Like man, shit gets complicated real fast. I still haven't seen the other movie. Yeah, I'll catch it up on some of these. So. Huh?

1:00:44Which one? Edge of Tomorrow? Yeah. I still haven't seen that. We watched that yesterday. It's actually, it's actually nice. Yeah, all you're in is good, so. Is kill. Because here's the thing. Okay, before you guys starve, movies from video games suck, but there's a few movies that have like basic like game mechanics. And definitely this is one of them that works. It has like a video game feel where you can, where you know the rules and you try to work with the rules, like as you do in a video game. That's cool. And Jumanji, this year's Jumanji is the second one. I actually, that was a fun movie. I did not anticipate that. So many people hated on that, but I haven't seen it yet. But I was just like, this is like fun. I'm really into this. It is. It is fun because it works with game mechanics and it just feels like, you know, like you're

1:01:28inside, you, the workings of somebody who plays video games. And that's, that's nice. It's refreshing. That sounds interesting. All right. So with that, we can conclude episode 113. And I'm Phil, that's my name. And Courtney. Yes. I wanted to say thank you so much, Courtney, for joining us today and the other two days and just talking. You're welcome, guys. I think, yeah. Yeah. Really fun. If you want to plug stuff. And yes, definitely do that. Yeah. Um, I really enjoyed being on this show and revisiting The Matrix. I really hadn't thought about it in, must be nearly a decade.

1:02:09And this has sort of been a very personal journey for me going, well, this is, it started my musical interests, my costume fascination. I didn't realize just how influential this and informative this film was and, and revisiting it now was, was, it was a pleasure. Yeah. I'm glad. I'm really glad. Yay. And in terms of things to share, I mean, yes, the same old, uh, travian designs.com T-R-A-V-I-A-N for my costumes, my podcasts. I should put some of my writing up there at some point. I never finished anything. I've got some essays. So cool. That's awesome. Yeah, do it. Yeah, you should.

1:02:50Um, and, uh, Prometheus by minute on Facebook. That's where else you can find me. Prometheus by minute. Yes. If you want more in-depth costume analysis, but for Prometheus, uh, my podcast is the podcast for you. Yeah. That is the place to be. Mm. Okay. And with that, I will say adieu and goodbye. Uh, oh yeah. Skip the next episode. Yes. Wait, what? Skip one? Uh, I was just telling to the listeners, skip the next episode because it'll probably suck compared to this one. So, yeah. That is true. That is true. Hot act follow. But also don't skip it and come back. Okay. Um, anyway.

1:03:30Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Courtney. Uh, everyone listening. We will see you next time. Enjoy. Stay frosty. Jog on. Bye-bye. Exactly. Bye. Frosted tips. There you go. Neo should have crossed the tips. two