Minute 111: “….knowing the path, and walking the path.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00Welcome back. Hey, Jake, Tim, stop interrupting me. Welcome back to the Matrix Minute, a podcast where we discuss the first film one minute at a time because, you know, I mean, it's a good movie. I got one movie. Welcome to the Minute Matrix, a podcast where we talk about the... No, I had it so good in my head. Wasn't it last time we talk about the movie because it's a podcast? No, wait, what was it? Damn it, I forgot. No, we love this movie because it's a... I got it. Hey, you're listening to Prometheus by a minute. Wait, hang on. Where am I? Oh, do you hear that? We have another guest. We are very happy to have Courtney Colson

0:40with us from all the way in the distant lands of Australia. Welcome. Hi, everybody. We are so glad to have you on the show. Yes, especially... I'm from the future. You are from the future. It's like Monday. It's amazing. No, it's... Is it Monday? It's Sunday night. Sunday night. Okay. You'll soon be in the future. I think I'm ahead of you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you definitely are. It's like 8 p.m. over there. It's 1 p.m. over here. And, you know, technology is amazing. It's just like the Matrix. Yeah. It's magical. And yes, exactly. Courtney is host of the Prometheus by Minute podcast, which is obviously about Ridley Scott's Prometheus, which, you know, unpopular opinion. I kind of liked. That's good to hear. Yes. Because

1:23it's my favorite movie ever. I don't know if you can tell. I have to also say that I enjoyed Prometheus. And I thought it was a, it was an interesting film. And I liked the themes that it delved into. There's just so much to talk about. And I'm realizing that now because I'm talking about it a lot. Awesome. And Tim is silent because he probably doesn't know. Right. No, no, no, no, no. I was, I was thinking. I haven't seen it in a long time. I think, I think I was intrigued at first, but then thinking about it, I wasn't so, so fond of it. I think it might be like the movie that came after it, whatever it was called. I forgot that might've, well, here's the problem. I don't know if you, if you listen to podcasts, but I'm a very strict, uh, alien kind of guy. I, I, I like alien and that, that, that's it. I'm not a fan of the,

2:09uh, the universe. I like that one movie. So, so I'm a little bit, a little specific. I started doing my podcast, uh, because I was listening to the alien minute and those guys, not big fans of the prequels either. I really love aliens and aliens as well, but I thought, oh, well, there's a gap in the market here. I'm going to talk about the prequels. That's, that's my territory. Yeah, you found, you found the way. Yeah, it's a good, it's very unconventional, I'd say. Yeah. I mean, it's very experimental. There's some things that are great and there are some other things where you just go, I don't understand how anyone let this happen. Right. Like when you get to the running from the giant croissant.

2:50I have actually started doing way too much research into the, the, the realistic possibilities of what would happen in that situation and the physics and all of that. Wow. I am going to do like a really dedicated defense of that moment. That sounds pretty sweet. Yeah. I mean, maybe not defense. We don't know. I don't want to spoil it for myself. Maybe I will agree with the general consensus that it's stupid. I don't know if I can defend Milburn and that vagina snake thing where it's just, oh, it's beautiful. I was going to pat it. No. That was, that was, that was, that was a thing. Yeah. Oh yeah. Things are flying back now. I remember. Yeah. It's a stupid girl.

3:30Yeah. That's that. Everyone's an idiot. Basically. Yeah. The top of the mind. But we're not here to talk about. No, no, we're not. Let's be honest. The crew on the Nebuchadnezzar, you know, isn't, you know. What? What are you going to say? What do you mean? They're not the brightest. Tank. I have things to say about Tank. Well, it's perfect because he's going to be in these minutes. Yes. We've got the right minutes for you. But not only is Courtney doing the podcast, I think you're also, you're very prolific, I would say, in costume design, which. Yes. I think that's about right. Yeah. Because like the stuff that I saw from you is just, it's really good. And I have to

4:11say it's really impressive. And I'm sure you're, you're very, very professional with these things. And that's part of the reason why I wanted someone who knows more about costumes than any of us to just show up and just, you know, have some comments about the, the costumes in the Matrix, because I feel like that was something that kind of set a little bit of a standard maybe when it comes to the nineties, the late nineties and how, you know, the costuming was portrayed in the film. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Uh, the Matrix really was, it's the first time I really noticed costumes. I think they

4:53have, yeah. So I would have seen it. Well, uh, yeah. Well, I don't know if I should give you my costume history first or my Matrix history first, but they kind of intersect. Whichever. Blend it all together. Blend it all. Uh, I first saw, uh, well, a bit of the Matrix. I think it was on TV and I was flicking around and I saw the minute where Neo has that tracker device worm thing sucked out of his belly button. And I'm like seven years old and I'm just going, Oh God. Oh God. No, no. What is this? And I, all I knew was that's the Matrix. That's that scary, horrible Cronenberg thing.

5:33No, thank you. There you go, Phillip. This is exactly like me. Oh, perfect. Uh, and then it, I probably would have watched it again or properly watched it when I was around 12 or 14. So I'd started to get a little bit more into science fiction and stuff like that. And it fucked me up again, but in a different way. So yeah, I guess I had already built it up in my head as this strange, scary, weird, bleak world. And when I watched it the second time, the thing that scared me, you know, not Neo's mouth being, you know, removed or the navel worm,

6:16if you will. Uh, no, it was when Morpheus says, do you think that's air you're breathing? And I was like, Oh my God, I can't breathe. Oh God. I don't even know what's real anymore. I had a micro panic attack because it was my first time actually questioning reality. And I just had this huge moment of, I don't know what's real mom. What's real? Explain what she's looking at me like, I don't, I don't know how to deal with this. Wow. So that was like the first time the question sort of was real for you. Yeah. Wow. So the matrix was a huge thing to me because it just, yeah, blew my mind. That's crazy. Um, but then, yeah, I watched it again after that and sort of started to actually enjoy it

7:01and not have existential crises. Um, and I started focusing on the costumes and I just thought, wow, these are really bold, iconic costumes. And it had such a cultural, well, the whole movie has had such a cultural impact in general. I don't think we really get movies like that anymore. I was thinking about that before we recorded, you know, the Star Wars movies and the Marvel films, they're really popular, but in terms of like costumes or quotes or like a bullet-time effect or something that everyone knows and everyone's parodying. Yeah. Yeah. We don't really have that anymore. It's really true. I agree. I think like, yeah, Nolan was the last thing that was very sort of,

7:45you know, like everyone's doing like one of some of the Nolan movies. Yeah. Like everyone's doing the Inception song and everyone was like dressed in suits and talking all serious, you know? Yeah. Inception is probably the last movie that became, I guess, a meme. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, yeah. So when I was in high school, I did a sewing class, uh, because yeah, I was really interested in costumes because of the matrix and I met, tried to make the albino twin silver jacket because I really liked pale colors at the time. I don't know. Um, it didn't go well. I mean, it's, it's all right. But when I look at it, I just see the flaws. So did you make like the full

8:25costume, like the coat and everything or just certain pieces? We just, we only got to make, cause it's only like, yeah, I think it was a one year, uh, unit. So yeah, I only got to make one garment and that was that trench coat, which was a nightmare. Really? It's not really the thing you should make first. Yeah. Cause like, that seems like it's a very complex sort of, um, endeavor. Yes. I, I know that now, but 14 year old me did not. Uh, yeah. Well, just the other day I made a suit jacket in about a week. So, uh, I have definitely improved. That is brilliant. So I was going to, uh, and then, sorry, go on. No, no, go on. I was just going to say after high

9:09school, I, I didn't finish high school cause I was, uh, a difficult child. They did not want to deal with me. Uh, yeah. How dare they? It's their loss really. But, uh, yeah, went and, uh, I was studied at TAFE, uh, which is sort of like, I don't know what you call sort of a tertiary education community college sort of thing. Okay. Did fashion design there for two years. My, one of my lecturers was like, it's too costumey. Everything you do is too costumey. Oh, okay. Thanks. Great. I know. I don't understand. What does that mean? Well, when you get to second year, so first year is sort of allowed to get really creative and elaborate and do really

9:52weird stuff, but in second year, it's more about, uh, commercial pattern drafting and making ready to wear fashion. And I was just, I just don't have the, the frame of mind for ready to wear. I don't think I think my stuff is a little too extreme. Um, uh, I mean, I'm the kind of person who wears jumpsuits on the regular. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, that is kind of cool. Yeah. My fashion, well, my fashion taste probably started off inspired by the matrix. And then nowadays I just dress like David from Prometheus. So science fiction is my thing. That's awesome, dude. Just bleached my hair today, actually. Really? Yes. Uh, although I haven't put the toner in, so I look like, um, Oh God, what's the name from the matrix with

10:35the blonde hair? Is it switch switch switch? Yeah. Yes. So do you have switched color hair now? Yes. That's basically what's going on. And I have questions about that. Why? How does she get access to bleach in the, in the real world? Oh, we were like, we were speculating that maybe she, maybe she stole some of the alcohol that Dozer makes. Oh shit. And she just like runs it through her hair. Cause that's decreasing the engines. That is a possibility. Yeah. They could decrease your. In, it was in world war two when, uh, women were in the workforce and they were, uh, you know, repairing vehicles and stuff. They were using some irradiated

11:20oil, which was used on the machines. They were using it to bleach their hair. There we go. So we're correct. Oh, maybe she could have done something like that. A new meaning to Bombshell Blonde, I guess. So maybe she could have done something like that. I think you found the answer to switch's hair. Yeah. Our theories are legit. If anyone was going to do it, it would be me. Exactly. And here it is on the matrix minute. Proof. Proof confirmed. You are desperately needed. Yes. Because, uh, this is, I'll tell you the extent of our costume discussions. That looks like leather. No, that's probably PVC. Okay. And that's it. That's it. Yeah. That's it. And then you go, maybe it's some cloth. Oh no, we did. We did find the Neo boots online. Yeah, you've been saying cloth a lot. Yeah, yeah. Cloth. Because our dictionary for costumes.

12:02We did find Neo's boots. That's what we found on the internet. We did find Neo's boots. Yeah, we did online. Sweet. That's it. Oh, and the sunglasses we found as well. Yeah. So that's about it. Yeah. I think they're blind design, if I recall correctly. Yeah, I think so. Because I really wanted Neo's glasses back in the day. You know the glasses. Actually, I collect a lot of sunglasses, actually. Cool. Maybe that's where that started. Yeah. That's probably possible. My sunglass fetish started with the Wachowskis. Yeah. Oh, where was I going? Oh yeah, in this minute, the way Neo is dressed, or these minutes I should say, Neo is dressed the way I dressed almost every day at TAFE.

12:44Really? Yeah, the sort of long crew neck shirt and those boots. I think it's a sweet look, to be honest. It's simple, but effective. It's so cool. And it's so timeless. So yeah, after TAFE, I went to WAPA, the West Australian Academy of Performing Arts, which is sort of like, oh God, what's that movie called? It's not Apocalypse Now. It's not the Kyrie one. Full Metal Jacket. Right. Full Metal Jacket. Whoa. Yeah, yeah. It's like that, but for theater. Really? It's so traumatizing. People were having panic attacks and just suffering from trauma.

13:30Sounds terrifying. From WAPA trauma. Yeah, WAPA trauma is a real thing, guys, because just there wasn't enough funding. So they had to put on so many shows. There wasn't that many classes. You were just working, sometimes until midnight, on getting a show out. Holy cow. And yeah, I only did two years. You can do up to four years there. And I was just like, I'm done. I've learned enough. How is it for you personally going through WAPA trauma? Fortunately, I am an android, so I don't really have emotions, so it was fine. Okay, that's good.

14:10Yeah, I was probably too chill, and that's what irritated everyone around me. They were all panicking. They were like, why aren't you having a breakdown on day three? Yeah. Oh, it's madness. So the costume designer for The Matrix is Kim Barrett. Kim Barrett, yes! And she, yes. She's done a lot of things. So she went to NIDA, which is sort of like the East Coast rival of WAPA. You either go to one or the other. Oh, okay. How did they have like yearly fights on the battlefield? I wish. Yeah, meet somewhere in the middle, do some kind of Fury Road type battle. Witness!

14:51Imagine the Fury Road by a minute. Someone's going to do it. That would be amazing. Got to clean dibs on that. I still have to watch it. Yes. You haven't seen it? Yeah, well. Oh, Jim. Oh, my God. Which one you haven't seen? I'm late to everything. Fury Road. Oh, you haven't seen Fury? What? What? Oh, but you have to watch it on good speakers. It was a religious experience for me. Yeah, man. If they've released it, she went to the other school. Yeah, if Nida and Whopper had some kind of battle, it would look like Fury Road meets Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Oh, man. That is intense. That is intense. But other influences that The Matrix has had on me, and I didn't even realize this until

15:31I started listening to your podcast and watching the movie again. I was like, wait, there's Rob Zombie. Oh, there's Rob Dugan. Oh, it's Massive Attack. Oh, holy shit. Everything in my life started with this movie. Yeah. Isn't that weird how that happens, though? Yeah. But it's true, like for some of us, how one movie can be the starting point for all these interests that you have later. It's crazy. It's madness. I'm trying not to make my tickle. What else, by the way? Since you mentioned Kim, right? Is her name? Kim Barrett, yeah. Yeah. What else did you do? Just out of curiosity, just to refresh. So she'd mostly done theater, and then Baz Luhrmann did Romeo plus Juliet, and that was her first

16:19film gig, which is madness. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, the thing is with Baz Luhrmann, actually, I know some theater people who did work with him as well. So he was such a prolific part of the Australian theater scene back in the 80s and 90s. So he was in WA. He was on the East Coast as well. And yeah, so he was very sure to bring along a lot of smaller, independent, creative people into film, which, yeah, good on him. He still does that to this day. Like, Great Gatsby's got a lot of Perth people in there, too. Oh, nice. Yeah. And what was the other thing she had done?

16:59Well, I know she did Amazing Spider-Man 1 with the, you know. Yeah. That's right. Did she? Which I remember seeing an interview with her talking about that and her influences and how she approached that Spider-Man costume. I particularly loved how she included, like, sneaker soles on that costume. I thought that was very clever. I thought that was good, too. Yeah. Yeah. I was talking about the basketball texture. Right. Hmm. Maybe controversial opinion, but I prefer that costume to the current one. Oh, really? I can't remember the current one. I just know the tone of the bar. Yeah, the current one, you know, the marvelous one. It's a very, like, simple, like, uh... Oh, yeah. It's sort of like...

17:40It doesn't have a lot of details. Yeah, it's less textural. It uses cloth. And I... It uses cloth, yeah. It uses cloth. Uh, no, I am... Oh, I am a slut for texture. And I think the Matrix is to blame for that as well. Because I was watching it and going, huh, everything is all black. And you tend to not want to have all black on the screen because it doesn't light the same way. You don't get as much depth. True. So... So... Yeah. So you need to add a lot of texture. And, you know, Trinity being the oil slick, apparently that's what the Wachowski's described, uh, or Neo being in a lot of very matte, uh, wool textures.

18:20A lot of his stuff is wool or wool blend. Because that... Because Jesus... It's quite rich. But it doesn't... Yeah. It doesn't, uh, soak up all the light, say, like velvet does. So it's a nice, happy medium. Oh. And then Morpheus has the snakeskin texture. Yeah, that's nice. He's really lovely on camera. We were idiots. We were like, crocodile skin. Oh, it's snake, yeah. That proves my point. He is a good one. He does have... That's probably... I noticed the colors they use on him. Occasionally he has green and purple. And those colors are often assigned to villains. Because for whatever reason, primary colors are always used on heroes, particularly superheroes. And then villains tend to have those secondary colors.

19:04Okay. Which is why, uh, say... Well, I don't know if that's a spoiler for Watchmen, but here's a spoiler for Watchmen. Sure. Ozymandias is wearing purple. Ah, there you go. There you go. Evil. That is super interesting. So, I think the ambiguity around Morpheus was very deliberate. Wow. And the costumes are telling that story subconsciously. That is beautiful. I didn't even notice this. Yes. This is amazing. But that's good. This is good. This is why you're here. This is so much better than anything we have. This is so good. Yeah. Yeah. I think about this shit, man. It's good. It's good. That's another need. Another thing... Go ahead. Neo is the only character who goes through a journey.

19:45So, he starts off with very, you know, loose-fitting, unstructured clothing. I mean, that was very common at the time for, especially menswear, to be quite baggy and stuff. When he's at work, he has a suit that is cut exactly the same as the agents. Oh, dude. And it's a slightly lighter color. Yeah. It's like a bit of a brown or maybe a gray. It's not as dark as the agents. But identical yellow lining. And again, there's a color that... It's not a secondary color, but it's often assigned to the... Is the lining the stuff inside or what? Yeah. So, it's the silk part of the inside of the jacket so that you don't get stuck to your shirt.

20:26Right. And that had to have been deliberate because lining, for the most part, in mass-produced costumes will... Outfits... Will just be identical to the outer part of the jacket. Right. So, yeah. That's amazing. I'm thinking what they're implying there is... Well, first of all, it just looks really attractive on camera. Every time the jacket's flipped up, I just... My eyes were drawn to it. But yellow is associated with evil, jealousy, sickness. Oh, it's actually got a lot of different meanings. Oh, cowardliness, which I guess works for Neo at the beginning.

21:12You know, he's running and hiding from the agents. What's wrong with you, yellow? And then... Yellow belly. There you go. Yeah. And then he comes back into the Matrix and he's wearing a more structured suit, a more tailored suit. He's looking, you know, pretty slick in the all black. That's one of the best suits, I think, that Neo wears. This very simple jacket and shirt, if that's what we're talking about, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah, the Oracle one, right? Simple but effective seems to be... Yeah. Yeah, it's just like a button-down shirt and a blazer. And yeah, I think it's just... As I get older, I do appreciate the simple but effective costumes more and more. You know, not enough can be said for tailoring.

21:55You know, Trinity, obviously her costumes are really cool and exciting. But, you know, I think Neo's costumes are telling a story. And the next outfit we see is the one we see in this minute where he is wearing this really cool combat outfit with the trench coat, which... Yes. Thanks, trench coat mafia. You've ruined that. But at the time, it was very cool. It was. It was super cool. So, the trench coat is also made out of, I guess, some kind of wool, like you mentioned, or... Cloth, Jacob. Yeah, a lot of people... Cloth. Cloth, yes. Everything from now on cloth. So, yeah, Kim was saying that a lot of people still come up to her and go,

22:35Oh, yeah, the leather jacket, trench coat from the first Matrix. And she's like, nah, there was no leather. That's right. Like, it's always leather. That's weird because I never thought it was leather, Neo's jacket. And it's so weird that people do think it's leather. There's so many people who have that perception. Because the other ones are very leathery. So, I think... Leather, you know, overcoat, like jackets and stuff like that were cool at the time. So, I think that's just the general association, you know. Right. And they probably saw it only once, you know. So, yeah, I understand the misguided masses. Yeah, go ahead. I don't even think it's a full length one. I think it comes to about his knees, if I think. I think you're right, yeah. Man, I should have... I don't know if I can actually open the video file without ruining everything that's recording.

23:20So, I just won't. Okay. Okay. Let's be safe. I want to say that... Yeah. Sorry, Jacob. Isn't the coat... Like, I always wondered, like, Neo's coat looks heavy. But I don't know if it is. What do you guys think? It probably isn't because these are outfits that are made for combat. So, they would have had to really keep that into consideration. Interestingly enough, Kim was mentioning... They had to make these fiberglass torsos of the actors. And because of all the wire works, they sort of had to keep in the same position for a long time. They had these, yeah, fiberglass corsets that helped them keep that posture.

24:04So, that's why everyone sort of moves in this very unusual way. Oh, wow. Okay. Never knew that. That's cool. And, yeah, Trinity's costume, a lot of those have lacing up the back. And I think why they would have done that is to have a bit more flexibility. Couldn't find any information on this. But what we've done, especially when I've worked on dance shows and stuff like that, is the lacing up the back isn't cord. Like, usually it's a very heavy cord. For dance, it will be slightly elasticized. So, you've just got that little bit of movement. It's still holding you in place, but you can actually breathe and do all of that. Huh. Opera singers need that as well because, like, they're diaphragms. So, everyone, most people, when you hold in a breath, your chest will go up by about 10 centimeters.

24:49Which I actually corrected my GP on this. It's like, nah, nah, nah, dude. 10 centimeters, I measured. But for opera singers, I think it'd be like 15, 20 centimeters. It's madness because they've got to, like, belt out a note for about, you know, 10, 15 seconds. And so, for those costumes, again, elasticizing the waist really helps with that movement. So, with Trinity, did we at least get that right? Is it PVC? Yes. Yes. Yay. Apparently, the budget was quite limited on the first film. So, it's some cheap PVC, which you can't really tell. I'm just looking at it.

25:30I'd have no idea. But then you do watch the... Well, I've never watched... I watched Revolutions once and just was so disgusted. No. Never again. Yeah. Well, yeah. That's why we're not really going into the second or third. We're just... We're finishing it off. It was just... I was so drained. I just went, no. Yeah. I think that's a good word to use for the third movie, at least. It's quite draining. Yeah. Because the second one... I actually had fun with the second one. I went, this is not... You know what? It's the Prometheus in the Alien franchise. Right. Or maybe even Alien 4. You know, it's like... It's good, dumb fun. It's not the wonderful self-contained masterpiece of Alien or the first Matrix.

26:13But, you know, I'm still having a good time. There's some crazy combat scenes and all of that stuff. But just... Oh, my God. Yeah. It's like... It was suffering. The worst and longest math class you've ever had. A fucking architect, like... Therefore, concordantly, you guys are dumb and I'm really smart. Look at my TV. I recall. Look at my TVs. I get all the channels. YOLO. Wait. No. You live millions of times. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, boy. So true, though. Can't wait to get into that. We're doing a special on that, then. All right? Yeah. Jacob? Right. Yeah. We're doing a special. So far, we're reaching closer. Excellent. That's what we're announcing.

26:54Announcing today. Probably doing specials. Before we go any further, I think we should just address what minute this is. Good idea. Oh, yeah. That's right. Oh, yeah. But it's been amazing to hear you talk about all this stuff. Yes. But, yes. This minute begins. I'm going to give a description, as I always do. The building is engulfed in flames. As Neo gets Trinity up, Trank it. Trank. Start again. Okay. Tank is in awe, looking through the monitors. I knew it. He's the one. Morpheus approaches the two of them on the side of the building and asks if Trinity believes it now. Neo interrupts to tell him what the oracle said to him. But Morpheus tells him that she told him exactly what he needed to hear.

27:36That's all. And that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. Tank answers a call and goes, operator. And that's our minute today. Beautiful. Thank you. Boo. All right. So, of course. We haven't watched this minute. You didn't fuck it up once. Thank you. All right. So, here we are. First off, you know, that big wide shot with Neo. First off, let's address that this minute is 1-1-1. Oh, yeah. Sorry. It's all about Neo being the one. It just doesn't... The one. Oh, my God. Does that mean I'm the chosen one? Yes. You are. I'm the chosen one. Clearly. Obviously. I'm the chosen guest. Why else would you be on episode 111? You're the chosen one because you know something.

28:18Giving us all this insight we don't know about. Exactly. You see? Because you're enlightened. You know. You're the closest one to the Matrix. PVC cloth. Because you're from the land where the Matrix came from. You're the closest we ever had anyone that's close to Matrix. It's so true. I didn't even get into that. Yeah. I got to see the Matrix exhibit at Warner Brothers Movie World on the Gold Coast. My parents were not interested. I dragged them through. Can you tell us more about that? It sounds super interesting. So, this was... I would have been there around 2005, I think. And so, there's a lot of the sequel stuff in there as well. Like, you walk through the long white hallway.

29:01Which, as far as I could tell, was the actual hallway they used. It wasn't just reconstructed. That's the one with all the doors, right? In the second film. Yeah. Which is a set I'm fascinated with. I don't know why. But it's one of those ones that, you know, I think of iconic cinematography. That's one that comes to mind. Me too. Me too. Yeah. There were some costumes. There were... There was a... Sentinel. Is that what you call the... Yeah. Robot. Yeah. Squiddy thing. Our boy. It's been a while since I've actually used that word. Our boy, Squiddy. The animation on those is pretty good still. I think, again, they knew when to use CGI and when to use practical effects. I think that was it, yeah. And the whole thing was made to look like the inside of the Nebuchadnezzar.

29:43So... That's awesome. It was a really cool experience. So you actually felt like you were in the Nebuchadnezzar? Yeah. So the outside, you know, bright, sunny, hot summer day in Australia. And then you go in and it's dark and it's air conditioned and you feel like you've entered this different world. And there's all that sort of grating. What do you call that? See, I don't know set design, but I know costumes. Yeah. It's sort of the grated floor. So you can see right through it. It's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of a raised platformy look. Yeah. It's a holy floor. There you go. That's our terminology. And yeah, there were costumes. There were props. They had, I believe they had a wall of TVs, which was just Neo having these different reactions.

30:27Oh, perfect. On the, one of the DVD special features, I remember them filming that and he's just going nuts. He's just like, oh, fuck you. I'll swear as much as I fucking want. Yeah. Yeah. You can't control me. That was good. I don't know why, but I love when Keanu Reeves screams. There's something pleasant about it. There's a charm. There's a charm towards his, with his screams. Okay. So I have some info. So the official Matrix exhibit opened in September of 2003 and closed in April of 2007. Man. So I guess you were there right in the middle between 03 and 07.

31:10I think they're going to reopen it once it gets more popular. That is a question I've been thinking about. So it says. Will they reboot? I would like to see this exhibit. This sounds amazing. So what else did you see there? It says here there was props and costumes. What's something that like struck you as like, oh, this is amazing. I am very certain I saw Trinity's costume and I think I just really, I don't know why her costumes were my favorite when I first saw those movies. I think because I'd never really seen that kind of fetish gear stuff before. And then she was an action hero and just like, what is this? Right. Yeah. That's the interesting thing about the Matrix is it's, yeah, it is unflinchingly all fetish

31:57gear and that only gets more extreme in the sequels. Yeah. Yeah. But it's mainstream. Just like Berlin clubbing scene. That's pretty much it. That movie. I like though, I have to say when it comes to Trinity, I prefer her costume in the sequels. Really? Yeah. Really? I like because it's very tactical. And. Yeah. The jumpsuit. Yeah. I mean. The hair is a bit weird in the sequels. In the sequels. Super greasy. I don't think they change it much. No. They do. Just. Because in the first one she has a sort of like, you know, kind of more natural gelled, like gelled look, but it's sort of natural and flowy, kind of like cool. Oh, it's more severe. Yeah. Yeah. Get some bangs going and stuff. And in the second one it's just very sleek. It's like proper cowlick.

32:37Yeah. I think Tim said something like a cow was licking her head. Yes. No. A cow sucked on her head. That's pretty much it. That's just like. Oh, okay. It's just like. I wish I remembered more of this exhibit. That's fine. Oh. Can't blame me for that. But the point is that it was good and it was an interesting exhibit. Yeah. Like the actual sensory experience of being in there and it really felt like I was in the movie. I think that was more important to me than the actual costumes and props, or at least at the time. Um, and then I remember my parents complaining going, this is boring. What is this? Of course. Of course. Classic. Classic parents.

33:18Well, as, as, as we noticed that. Oh, they had the key makers. Keys. That's right. Oh, like the whole room with all the keys. That was like just one shot. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. That's a lot of keys. I mean, they would have filmed that in Sydney. Cause that's where all the movies are made. They actually, side note, that's where they did Alien Covenant and Thor Ragnarok. So yeah, it's, everything's filmed in the same place in Australia. Um, I want to work on the next Alien movie. I don't care if it's just, you know, getting coffee for the costume maker. It's just gotta be a movie. Will there be another Alien? That's the question. Alien Covenant 2. He'll never stop.

33:58Ridley Scott will never stop. Ridley? Ridley's never going to stop. Ridley's never going to come back. He's going to do it in the next film. Right at least Scotch is unstoppable. Well, he is now. He's going to be, he's going to do reboot of Alien. Just like pure reboot. Oh, please. Pure reboot of Shatt for Shatt remake. Oh, I thought. We're going to do a Shatt for Shatt. I'm going to do this one with Van Gallis. I cannot do an impression of Ridley Scott. On my podcast, I like to do a little bit of voice acting. Cause I like to fancy myself as a voice actor. And I can do everyone else's. I mean, David's the easiest one. Cause it's just basically more English and more precise. But, uh, no. Ridley Scott, I cannot do. Oh, just get Jake to do it. We just try to do it sometimes. It's like, hello, this is Ridley Scott speaking. Yes. I'd like a cigar.

34:39I'd like a cigar, please. Aliens are beautiful. Beautiful creatures. They're very sexual and beautiful. It's perfect. The perfect organism. Yes, exactly. All right. Let's get back to the minute. Come on. Yeah. Let's do the minute. So. Focus. Let's get straight into business. Okay. Straight into business. Go, go Jake. Explosion. Speak. So what I have to say first is that there's an explosion that happens. Yep. That's an explosion. And Gordon was saying earlier that the effects do hold up pretty well. I don't have any problems with this explosion. I think it looks fine. That's because it's a real explosion. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh. I mean, they didn't film it with Keanu right there. No, I'm saying it's a minute. John Trinity in the middle of it. But with Trinity, well, with the helicopter and with Trinity, that would have been a composite shot.

35:28Yes. And yeah, it blends together perfectly. Exactly. Very good. Very nice. Now, my question for all of you is, what do you think about this shot of Trinity, like, bouncing into the wall? Why? Yeah, because you always mention that. Whenever we watch the movie, you're like, yeah, I remember the bounce. So is that bounce. I remember that. What? Does it bother you, Jake? What's happening? What's your beef here? I'm just asking, what do you guys think? Like, is it a good shot? Is it a useful shot? Does it look cool? Does it not look cool? It is unusual because most of the time in films, everything is very efficient and you'd never see the flaws. Whereas this is, you have the extreme, you know, explosion and swinging away from it.

36:08And then you just have the bump, bump. Yeah, it's very different because typically, like you said, in an action film, you'd have sort of like, you don't see the excess shots. And this is sort of this like glimpse of... But without it, it'd be kind of weird because you don't get to see Trinity too much until she's been on hold. Maybe that's why they put it in. Yeah. It's very important. So it's an orientation scene, as I've been told. You sort of orient the audience as to where they are, even if it's not necessary. Exactly. It's also very important for pacing. If you have something big or something loud, it's usually you have to have time right afterwards before something else happens just to get it more grandiose. If you cut into some kind of action right after, it kind of undermines it, you know.

36:51Yeah, you lose the momentum. When you watch a movie and the pacing is off, it's usually you don't have like stuff that happens after the big thing. Yeah, you just need like a little pause to contemplate what just happened. I'm watching this same few seconds over and over. And if you go straight to Tank, you're like, is she okay? What happened? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, that would throw it off. That'd be weird. I love that Dolly shot though, when he just pulls into Tank's face. He's like, I knew it. He's the one. That's great. I love it. And then I wanted to mention this, musically speaking, now we have this wonderful thing that I've been annoying Jacob all morning with because I've been whistling it all morning. And it's that wonderful moment with the horns.

37:35And then when he picks up Trinity, we hear a little bit of the Trinity Neo motif. This is true. Can you sing that for us? And it's interesting because I remember, good point. I remember when we went to watch the sequels, I think it's a very prominent theme in the second film. Yes. And I thought that there was a new theme written for the sequels. No, you find out here. But like you said, in this sequence, it's still there. You just hear like the first four notes. Which is cool. So Don Davis basically just went in the second and third and like just expanded that. Which is interesting. I really appreciate soundtracks that have individual motifs for characters and settings and stuff.

38:19I notice with a lot of soundtracks these days, you get just kind of this reactionary soundtrack. Well, that's sort of how I describe it. Or it's the music that goes along with the mood of the moment, but you're not incorporating deeper themes. So I'm noticing that with Prometheus as well. Like every planet, every character has a little leitmotif that plays throughout. Oh, interesting, man. And I think also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like this was more of a standard in older films to sort of have character themes. Whereas I feel like maybe today, at least in blockbuster movies, it's sort of like you're mentioning less.

38:59So it's funny to me because... Yeah, like the... Sorry, it's okay. It's just funny to me because... I was going to say... Continue. Someone make up your minds. Someone has to die. The delay to Australia. After you. After you. Go ahead. No, no, no. You're the guest. You're the guest. Go. Okay. Yeah, listening to... I was listening to the Black Panther soundtrack and Captain America and a few of those other Avengers ones. The Avengers score itself. There's the Avengers theme. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Yeah. But there's not much else unique about it. And then Captain America, he has a theme, but it's not a theme that goes throughout all

39:41the Captain America films. It doesn't, no. So there's no continuity there. The Iron Man soundtracks are different every single time. Yes. Good soundtracks, though. Good soundtracks. So it's kind of frustrating. There's no evolution there. But in this case, we have... Oh, yeah. Tim, sorry. Follow up. Sorry. Just hijacking. Just like sliding. No, I just wanted to say, it's funny, but I think at the time when Matrix came out, that was the reaction to the Matrix soundtrack. You know, people were used to more sort of themes that you could hear. And they would be like, oh, you know, the soundtrack's all weird. It's just like, you know, just lots of noises and like very, you know, modern music and it doesn't have themes. So I just find it kind of ironic that, you know, that that was, you know, that would be

40:26considered like, oh, this is very drastic change. But that kind of inspired the soundtracks we have today. I mean, obviously, there was a lot of... Well, there was Zimmer. He's the man. He's the man who's responsible for it. But I would say that Matrix could be sort of like, you know, the inception of that style of soundtracks as well. True, true. So I find it ironic and lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Don Davis is probably... He's somewhere in the middle where he... It is this sort of atmospheric reactionary soundtrack. But at the same time, I hadn't listened to it in isolation until recently and going, oh, actually, there's a bit more of a story being told here. Yeah. He's a very traditional composer, as it were.

41:07And that's why he adds all these different interesting new sound effect like elements in there. And I think that makes for a wonderful score. I love the Matrix scores. All of them. They're all wonderful and beautiful. Just... I was playing around with... Because I have a... I don't do much editing because I don't have much time and I just got too many other projects. But I was thinking if I made this or this movie were made today, they'd definitely go for a Cynthia soundtrack. They would go for something that is more electronic because, of course, it's the Matrix. So what I did was I played the Mr. Robot soundtrack over the top of the opening scene where Neo wakes up and stuff.

41:48Okay. Kind of works. But I think you lose something. I think the traditional classical orchestra gives the Matrix this very unexpected feel. Yes. I agree. And also you avoid, you know, like you said, a lot of times when people think like, oh, you know, this movie is about technology and stuff. Let's put electronic music. In my opinion, that's sort of like, you can get very quickly trapped into not only being dated, but being too on the nose. But with classical music, you always get away and it always works. Because classical music is... Yeah. It's been around for so long and we're so used to it. I love orchestral music. I love it. It's my favorite. Yeah. Well, that's like the...

42:31What's that? Legend. Ridley Scott's a legend. One version has Tangerine Dream doing the soundtrack. It's a fairy tale. I don't know why they were like, yes, Tangerine Dream. Let's give it a synth soundtrack. Well, when was it made? It was like 1982... 85-ish? 85-ish? There you go. Because his nose was too deep into Vangelis. That's why the synth was there. Is it Vangelis or Vangelis? Who knows? I don't know. I think it's Vangelis, but Vangelis sounds funnier. I can't find out either way. It sounds so much nicer to say Vangelis because it sounds so, you know, appropriate. That's what the sound of just seeing him, you know, I say that. Vangelis. I mean, most European dialects, it's a hard G rather than a soft J sound.

43:15They don't really... Like Italian doesn't have a soft J. I don't know. I think it's Greek. So, yeah, that's what I... I don't think they have a G anywhere there. Let's ask Ridley Scott when I think it's both... Both are correct. No, it's anything. It's perceptive. I call him Vangelis. I call him Vanny. Hey, Vanny. Come here. Come here, Vanny. Okay. So... But the technology aspect, you know, watching it again... So I actually watched the minutes out of context. And I just took as an experiment to see if I could follow the story still and really understand what's going on. No, turns out not really. But you got... Yeah, watching it through again for the first time in years.

43:57It must be like eight years, ten years. Just, oh, really swept me off in this world again. And I didn't feel it was dated. I didn't have that culture shock. You know, if you watch something... A lot of things from the 90s or early 2000s, like, oh my god, it's hideous. Oh, yeah. This movie is one of those... This movie's holding up. I'm very happy about that. Very, very happy. There was a time, though. I think the 90s are making a comeback. And so I'm appreciating this movie in a way that I hadn't before. There was a period of time sort of around, I don't know, 2010, 2008, 2010. And I was like, the Matrix isn't cool anymore. That's like so 90s. Really?

44:37No way. Yeah. It's sort of... Even amongst my social circles, like, oh, yeah, the Matrix was this really cool thing at one time. And now it's like Nirvana. It's really lame. But... Wow. It's so interesting because, like... Go ahead. We were stupid kids. I was going to say, it's just interesting because, like, for whatever reason, for us, we always sort of, like, just took the Matrix as this, like, gold standard. As soon as we saw it, we were just like, this is it. This is one of the best ever movies. This is the best movie. Yeah, I don't know. It just happened like that for us. I mean, it's only a natural cycle, really. You know, you kind of go through the stuff you grew up, you know, you want to change when you come here. When you end your teenagehood, you want to shed the thing and usually go something, you

45:19know, that's a little bit earlier than you. And then once you become, you know, sort of like, reach like 25 or something, up to 30, you know, you kind of start to re-appreciate your childhood. And that's what I think Matrix is, you know, becoming a signal on the dot again because our generation is now becoming the vocal minority. And we are the consciousness of the, you know, of the pop culture. So I'm pretty sure in the next couple of years, we'll see a lot of Matrix popping up. And probably they're going to reopen that park over there. We can all go together. I hope so. We can all go together. Their money tingling fingers will start to tingle again. Like, oh, it's coming. They want it. They're here. They have money now. They have jobs. Yeah. Support us on Patreon, all that.

46:01Yeah. Yeah. So I'm 26. And so last time I would have watched it, yeah, it would have been around 16, 18. And yeah, just it wasn't the right time. I watched it when I, yeah, watching it for the first time when I was around 12 or 14. Blew my mind. Holy shit. This is so crazy. It's this terrifying thing. You know, the Matrix was just this. It was so massive. I can't even think of a word to describe it. Just like, yeah. So just mind altering. It broke you ground. Yes. Thank you, John Lithgow.

46:41But yeah, watching it at around 16 or 18, I just sort of went, ah, yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's okay. And then watching again now. Yeah. I was invested again. And not only that, having done so much film theory and critiquing media, I was aware of, oh, this is the hero's journey. This is the three-act structure. And just, it was suddenly, this thing that was so alien and scary to me was suddenly so familiar. Yeah. Yeah. That's how we all feel. Yeah. Morpheus, on the other hand, he's, he's standing there. He's like, do you believe it now, Trinity?

47:21And Trinity's like, okay, I guess so. Maybe, sort of. Look at his eyes. He's not just standing there. Look at him. He's in love with Neo. Look at his eyes. He's like, projectile. I know. That was a man who was tortured just a few minutes ago. Then he got shot with a minigun around him. He had to break the chains. Ankle. Yeah. On his hands. I'm breaking these cuffs. I'm breaking this. He jumps out of the helicopter, gets dragged around half of the, whatever, Liberty City, whatever this is, falls onto a roof. And look at him. What? Where is this? Well, look. I was going to ask. Where is. Right. So, officially, it's a megacity. It's just called the megacity. That's not a term that's used in the movie. That's sort of like a non-diegetic term that we use, you know, in the real world.

48:06Was that in a video game or something? Yeah, it is. But it's like, it's like, I think the Matrix is meant to be just one huge giant city. No one knows what's, you know, everybody has perceptions of being out of the city, but there is no such thing as that. It's just the Matrix is a self-contained giant city from 1999. Like the Truman Show? Like the Truman Show. Just way bigger. Which is disappointing. Are they just living? For me, at least. I wish there were more, you know, areas. What about the place in the Alps where Neo goes in the sequels? There's some Alps. There's like the edge of the simulation. And there's a Buddhist temple there. Yeah. Or the Himalayan. I don't know where it went. Hmm. Oh. Oh. I had a point.

48:46It's going right out of my head. Oh, no. Don't talk and you'll remember. Oh, it looks like Sydney. This whole place looks like Sydney to me. Because I've been there and I'm just going, oh, I recognize that. Oh, well, huh. That's a very Sydney-looking. What do you know? Does it actually... Because I know Americans, when something's filmed in Canada and it's supposed to double for like New York or something, most New Yorkers are like, yeah, right. Yeah, sure. It's New York. Yeah. Yeah. Well, of course, this whole movie, all the cities, the city scenes here were obviously filmed in Sydney. So there you go. So I think that's why you're recognizing all the... We don't recognize anything. Yeah, we don't know anything. We don't know squat. Just like Netflix, Matrix City to us. Sydney is a really...

49:27It's an unusual city because... So you've got the very famous bridge, you've got the opera house, and everything's really concentrated in a very small landmass near the ocean. And it just, it sort of feels... And maybe it's because I'm often there just on holiday, so I'm just doing touristy stuff, but it does have that mega city feel. It feels like everything's so condensed into one little space, and then outside of that is nothing. That's really interesting. I would love to visit. Yeah. It'd be great. It's a nice place. So are they basically living the same year over and over again? Like, they have memories of having born in, like, I don't know, the 60s, but it's just

50:091999 forever. Yeah, we kind of talked about that once or twice or three times already, you know. Yeah, but we don't know about the being born thing. I mean, that makes sense. How would that work? I don't know. I don't know either. I mean, like... Sort of like replicants, you have implanted memories. There you go. Resets every year, or maybe just resets every year. Neo is a replicant. Confirmed. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, everybody's kind of a replicant, if you think about it. I mean, everybody's an android... No, not an android. A cyborg. Everybody's a cyborg. That has to be jacked into the Matrix. Yes. But a cyborg, only like 1% cyborg. Not like... Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. Anyway, Morpheus... So Morpheus is in love. Yes, he is. And here's the weird thing.

50:50I love the shot. I ship it. Yeah. The shot with Morpheus looking there, you got that wonderful, you know, half and half sort of negative fill there, and you got the key light on the side. It's kind of weird. It looks like it was not filmed on location. I don't know. Maybe it was. Probably it wasn't. I don't know. You know, it's interesting. Just an observation. And yeah, then Trinity... I mean, Neo's like, the oracle, she told me. And then he's like, no, no, no. There's a difference between walking the path and knowing the path. What do you think about that? You just had to believe in yourself, Neo. The power was in you the whole time. Yep. Well, I don't have anything to say because I'll just repeat myself for older episodes and that's

51:34not nothing new. I mean... No, I should have listened to all 100 whatever episodes. Yeah, do your homework. God damn it. That's our... I don't know. I can't think of anything except the whole enlightenment thing again. Right. But other than that, I really can't. Well, anyway, this episode has been quite long and I think we can wrap that up unless anyone has any other observation they can make with this little section of the film. Well, no, I wanted to say something. Courtney, didn't you want to say something about Tank or should we leave that for the next episode? Next one, dude. Come on. There's two more. We don't want to... But I will say that the cruelest thing that the machines did to man is trap them in the year 1999. It was not a good time.

52:15I liked it. They were very fond of that year. Yeah. Is that like some kind of 9-11 thing? Like this was the peak of humanity. So like, is that like a pre-9-11... I don't know. The Wachowskis know shit. I think it was... You know the passport, right? Neo's passport expires on September 11th, 2001. Oh. The Wachowskis know stuff and they're not letting us know what is the truth. We'll never find out. We'll never find out. They do not know the truth. Anyway. Okay. So we should probably go to the next episode. Yes. Yes. We don't want to use up all the good material. No. So first of all, thank you for being on the show. You'll be here obviously all week with us. Thank you. Here all week. I just want to give you the opportunity if you'd like to, you know, any plugs when it

53:01comes to where people can find you and stuff like that. Yes. So I can be found on traviendesigns.com, T-R-A-V-I-A-M or Prometheus by Minute on Facebook. I've said that so many times now. It's so instinctive. Oh yeah. On Travian Designs, you can find my costumes and my podcast. So I've got two podcasts. I've got Prometheus by Minute and Saint Elsewhere where I talk about, well, my co-host and I talk about autistic representation in the media. Wow. We just recently recorded, where are we up to now? Everything's blurring into one. Oh, a documentary called Life Animators. That sounds super interesting. Really.

53:41That's cool. Yeah. It's about an autistic man who's obsessed with Disney movies. I heard of that one. Really? Yeah. It's really good. Sweet. So those are the places. That's awesome. I think that's everything I won't load you up to with too much stuff. Well, we'll link all this stuff anyways, too. Yeah. And we'll catch everyone on Wednesday. Wednesday. Wednesday. All right, guys. Bye. Bye. Thank you.