The Matrix Reloaded

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00The Matrix Minute, a bonus podcast by yours truly and our friends. A bonus podcast! Welcome once again to the next week, the next week of bonuses, and this bonus will give you a raise. Where is the raise gonna happen? I don't know, we'll have to find out, but I am here with you today. Hello. Hey. Oh, I'm also here. Yes, Tim and Jake. Jake is here. Tim is here. And some weird guys shouting before. That wasn't me. That was some weird guys. Interesting. And we're here with a bonus episode for you to talk about The Matrix Reloaded.

0:44Reloaded. The Matrix Reloaded. Reload. Reload. No turn of the Rob. Rob Zombie comes back. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody comes back in the soundtrack. Everybody. Robby. Defties. Oh, that's right. What are Defties? If you're feeling lucky. Yeah. Original track or just for The Matrix? I don't know. No, it was the original track just by itself. Like, like, like, like, my own song I just put in there. Right. Just stuff it over. Who was ever putting that soundtrack together and liked them? Like, I like the Deftones. Because everybody liked the Deftones in the first soundtrack, so. Do you know, stupid?

1:24Yeah. How they always lumped. Tim, you obviously taught me this. That the Deftones were always lumped with the Nu Metal scene, which was not true. So, I mean, whatever. They sounded pretty Nu Metal-y at the beginning, but they kind of diverged, especially with this one. I know, but I think that you couldn't categorize them as truly part of the Nu Metal scene in the sense that, like, they were jumping on the bandwagon. They were just happened to. Oh, no, no. Yeah. That's what I meant. I mean, they were one of the first few that got popular, so. But they definitely didn't, like, want to or want to try to follow that trend. I mean, they purposely tried to think outside the box because the music wasn't

2:04you know, the Nu Metal music. That was just music they wanted to make, whatever, so. Wasn't Linkin Park also on this one? Soundtrack? Yeah. I think so. Their song Session from Meteora. It's on there. Oh. I don't actually look this up. I haven't listened to this soundtrack. Marilyn Manson's back as well. Inspired by whatever, right? Yeah. Yeah. Jake and I, we actually went to Meijer to buy the soundtrack in 2003. Really? We bought the album because it had two discs that had the score and one disc. And one disc had the songs. And we bought the censored version, unfortunately. Did we really? Oh, wait.

2:45Instead of Marilyn Manson saying, this is the new shit. He goes, this is the new hit. Oh, I forgot. He's parcel tongue. And then whenever there's, like, a square word, it kind of glitches. So it sounds like, yeah. So it's like a stylistic thing. Oh, wait. Not only is Derf Jones on it, but it's also Team Sleep. That's right. Team Sleep. Which is Chino's side project. Oh, that's true. It's true. Side project. That was a cool side project. Yeah. I wish they made more music. That was cool. I like that album. I listen to it a lot. You know what's another good side project from Chino? Crosses. Oh, yeah. The first album was killer. There's another one here. It's come on. Get up. Let me see your bruises.

3:25Come on. Get up. Who did that? Wait, wait, wait. Which one is that? Unloco. Unloco. It's like a new metal band. Yeah, yeah. Come on. Get up. Let me see your bruises. Come on. They also have the classic P.O.D. Yes. Zion. Oh, this is. No, this is. The song of the soundtrack. Can you. Was this. Was this a. Exclusive. Yes, absolutely. This is a exclusive song, right? What did he miss? It was like a video, too. Yes, with the Matrix. Smashing guitars on their hands. Yes. Yeah. And his hand moves a little bit. Explain.

4:06Visions. Enigma. Unlock these secrets to me. Of course, you know. That. Okay. This is. This is new metal-y. The chorus. Dreaming is. Oh, true. And the chords are always like these. Very. I think it's like a. It's like a. It's like a major. I don't know. It's like a minor seven or something like that, but it's distorting. So it doesn't have that jazzy quality. It just kind of becomes. Whatever that is. Yeah. What is that? What is that? What is that new metal? I don't know what the characteristic is. I would love to know the theoretical. Um. I would. I would. I would look up new metal chord because it's very like. It's distinct. Yeah. Yeah. The everlong chord. That's it. The everlong chord. I think it's like a. I don't know. Like a. It's a seven. I'll look it up. Some seven. No.

4:46I don't know. I think it's a seven and it has like a. Like an added nine or something like that. You should look it up. Those music right now is probably like shooting himself in the line. But I'm going to look it up. Idiots. You idiots. It's this. Well, you know, it's great. If you're listening, we would really love if you wrote what the chord is. We're thinking of the everlong chord slash new metal chords. Chorus chords. I don't even chorus chords. Some weird new metal riffs have that. Anyway, the POD song was one we liked a lot. And. Yeah. We made a really horrible music video. To be fair. Okay. We knew it was a little bit hokey when we were doing it. I think. I guess. But also it was too. It was like too much. Too much. Bad. Jeez. That's cheese.

5:27Yeah. You know. I don't know if this was on the podcast, but Phil was explaining that when he made video movies, he kind of seen it through a different perspective and not really what's happening. Yeah. Those are the. I think this is like the prime example because it's just in a bedroom. Yes. Yes. Exactly. I mean, that escaped me. I didn't think of the outside context, the objective look of it and be like, people are going to say this, your kid's on a bed. Kind of singing. Yeah. And it's like, because it cut away. It's like if we even went to the next room, it would have even be better because. Yep. It would have been a cutaway to some kind of dude, but it's still in the same one. God damn. Yeah. Tim's bedroom. I know. This was 2003. And then we also. And we had no costumes or anything. It was just me with a stupid white.

6:08It was horrible. I think I wore like an orange. Yeah. A sleeveless shirt. And he had a white sleeveless shirt, maybe even also. And Tim had like a regular shirt. And Tim. The crappiest part was Tim was playing the guitar. Right. The acoustic guitar. Yes. On acoustic guitar. Totally the correct thing. And me and you, Phil, were just like singing. Dreaming of Zion. So that was amazing. But anyway, that's why the song for us is interesting. Yeah. There was also this song called Zion. Was that the one at the party? Yeah. Calm Like a Bomb makes an appearance here by Rachel. Calm Like a Bomb. Is that the end? Yeah. Calm Like a Bomb.

6:49Dread Rock by Oakenfold. I don't remember that one. Oh, yeah. And then When the World Ends by Dave Matthews Band was always one of those songs. I was like, these are the weirdest lyrics ever. These lyrics make me uncomfortable. Yeah. When the world ends. Collect your things. You're coming with me. But it is. It is a major seven. The seven. I will take you up on the mountain. Because it goes. That's no longer there. You got a. You got a D major seven, right? That's as if you played this. But it's missing. Like if you play the. You know, that thing. But it's like. It's missing the.

7:29And then you got a. Like a B with a sus two. Suspended two, right? So those are some of the new metal chords. So it's a major seven. But then you have like the suspended whatever. Two. That's sus two. I think that's the metal thing. I think so. Because like all the metal ones just did the. The sus two. That. That's it. They love those. Oh. Take you to bed. We should love you and swear. But the end is here. So then on the disc two, like you said. There was some score. Don Davis. Don Davis stuff. Don Davis stuff. Some Juno Reactor. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Deedle. Deedle. Yeah, I remember this is the soundtrack.

8:10The two disc. I think of the reload edge thing. Deedle. Deedle. And then there's Rob Dogen who comes back and gives you two tracks this time. Ooh, Rob Dogen. Specifically. No. The Furious. So Rob D comes back, right? Yes. Furious. I was thinking when I was watching it. Like, this sounds like Rob. Yeah. I mean, he comes back. He was in number one? Yeah. Rob Dogen? Rob D. What did he do? The Matrix theme. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was Rob Dogen? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Club to Death. And Burly Brawl. Yeah. Yeah.

8:52All right. We're completely lost to the listener right now. Anyway, come back, listener. Come back. Come back. We're done with the soundtrack. Anyway, there was a big campaign for this because everybody knew this was going to be a hit. The album or the movie? It is true. The movie. Okay, we're going back to the movie now. Yeah. It is true. I think we need to give a little bit of context. And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to say, guys, listen, this is Matrix Reloaded. Don't talk so fast. It's fine. Okay. Guys, this is Matrix. It's chill time. Okay. So, Matrix Reloaded. I told myself I've been planning for maybe, you know, like half a month to half a month, half a year this whole time when we were doing the first Matrix that I will write notes for Matrix Reloaded Revolutions and put as much

9:33info as I can that I can find. And guess what? I stand before you now with nothing. It's fine, Philip. It's fine. It's okay. So, I'm going to wing it and see how much I can get into talking about how they started working on this film. And honestly, there's just much to talk about. We can just briefly talk about it. Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm doing this by memory. You can do it throughout the movie, you know. You don't have to up front load all of that. True. But I just wanted to say that they started writing. I don't know if we won't have anything to say for the next half an hour. I just wanted to say they started writing right when the Matrix was done and, you know, the opening weekend and to see how well it went. And they just said, let's do it next movie. You know, the Wachowskis said that they had a whole trilogy planned.

10:14So, here we go. Start doing it. And then they started writing it. So, they started writing it right after the first one. Yeah. Yeah. But I think presumably they had some ideas before that. Yes. That we talked about. But I think that they, like Tim said, and I think he's correct. I believe the same way, judging by how this movie works. Turned out. And turned out that they had ideas. That's what I'm saying. Ideas. Not scripts. Yeah. Or anything specific. Just ideas. Yeah. And so, they just tried to. So, they started writing immediately after the first film. And then they started developing. Yeah. Then, of course, Warner Brothers was very interested because of the success of the Matrix. Oh, they said, yes, do it. Let's go. And they said, yes, yes, please, please. Let's do it. Please, please. Give me more money.

10:54Two and three. And the Wachowskis wanted to do two and three, right? Yes. And so, then they're like, here. Yeah. They set up their own production studio. I think the budget was obviously a lot more. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's 100-something. It says here, probably more freedom as well. It's like 127 to 150 mil. But I think that's for both. Yeah. Here's a little thing about Warner Brothers. Also, can we mention, since at the beginning, just really quick, Philip. Go. Is that, just to mention so everyone knows, in case you didn't know, that the second and third were shot back to back. And it was one big project. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's right. They wanted to release them at the same time, right? That was a rumor. That's as a kid, I remember. Yes, I think I started that rumor after I saw the trailer.

11:34You did? Oh, is that just a Phil rumor? It's probably a Phil rumor, yes. Okay. And I was like, I'll tell you about that when we talk about that. But for these two movies, they just hit the ground running and started. And most, if not all, of the crew were the same, because it's all the same thing. And Phil Osterhaus became associate producer on this instead of an assistant. So he was producing now. And he's still not on our podcast. You still have a chance, Phil. Still have a chance. Still have a chance. Still revolutions. Yeah. Okay. I got some updates for you guys. What was the update?

12:14That the budget for The Matrix Reloaded was a 150 mil. And the budget for The Matrix Revolutions was a 150 mil. Maybe those are both the same. I think it's both. I think it's both. 300. 300 is too much. All across. It sounds a bit too much. I think it's 150 for both. I heard it was topping at 250, both of them. Is it too much? 300 million? Like CGI heavy movies usually go around, what, 200? Yeah, like 250 for a movie. But then again, maybe it is possible because if you think about it, there were movies coming out back then, there were 200 million. No? Yeah. Spider-Man was The Matrix maybe. Spider-Man 2 was the most expensive and it was 250 million.

12:55That's one movie. That is true, yeah. Yeah. So maybe 300 is fine. Yeah, I guess. Wasn't like Pirates of the Caribbean like super expensive? Yes, Pirates of the Caribbean 3 was around 300 million, which is terrible. Wow. I think suffice to say that the budget was significantly increased. Yeah. Yes. Definitely. That's the point. They had better facilities. They had comfortable spaces to work in. They made a really nice production company. The Wachowskis were able to make their own production company. Everyone was having a good time, except they didn't have as much time as they probably would have. Because you gotta make that deadline. It's funny that you mentioned it, what you guys mentioned about the script.

13:36And as I was watching this movie, you know, my theory of that they didn't have enough time to write it and to make it. It was just completely confirmed with the new script that Phil was reading to us, the 1996 script. And this movie really felt a lot like the 1996 script. Ah. Which is like, the ideas are there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's just not polished enough. Exactly. Which, in hindsight, maybe, maybe if they delayed it another year, it could have been fine. But if they worked another 10 years, as they did for the first Matrix one, I don't think, you know, no one would have cared at that point. So, it would have been possible. Plus, these were two films. Do you think no one would have cared? Like, think about it. No. Think about it, though. No. Imagine, remember Sin City came out, like, the sequel, like, 10 years later.

14:18But was it good? I don't give a shit about that. It doesn't matter, you know. Can we talk really quick grosses? So, the Matrix. Let's go. Just interesting, because we're talking about the release and everything. So, the Matrix, the original, earned a $463 million. Earned $463 million. Worldwide. Yeah. Worldwide. Worldwide? Hmm. That's funny. The budget was $60. Yeah, this budget was $63 million. Now, Reloaded earned $742 million worldwide. Okay. So, quite a jump, quite a hype. Close to 1B. It was the king of... It was the most money-making R-rated movie ever.

15:01At the time. Nice. Until Passion of the Christ came out. Right. And then that... Oh, yeah. Jesus knocks out the fake Jesus. That's true. And then finally, we have Revolutions, which came in pretty much the same as the first film. $420 million around there. That's a lot lower, Jacob. No, I'm saying it's... Oh, yeah. Oh, no, you're right. It's lower than the first film. The first one was $420 million. This is $427 million. So... Yeah. I think a lot of people were disappointing and Reloaded, which is like, didn't bother with the next one. It's about like 30 million people who didn't go and watch it. Yeah. But anyway, suffice to say, again, the major Reloaded earned a lot more money than the first film because of the hype. Well, of course, the hype. The hype was huge. I don't think there's anything for me to talk about with developing because they just hit

15:42the ground running and just started working on it. Yeah. From 2000 to... Well, late 1999 to 2000. And then they filmed in March 2001 all the way to August 2002. It's interesting that you mentioned... That's so short. No, no. March... That's so short. What do you mean? What? One year for writing? Yes, exactly. One year from... Like, think about it. When The Matrix came out, that was like March 1999, they started pre-production in probably 2000. So they had half a year. Wow. Yeah. To write something. And quickly to talk about release dates. Interestingly, the second and third films were released in the same year. Yes. That was the big deal.

16:22Which I always forget about when I'm thinking about the past. I'm like, oh, yeah, it was next year, right? No. Yeah. Same year. I think that was... That was a big gamble as well. And that was... I think that was very rare. Very. Back then. So Reloaded came out May 7th in the United States, and Revolutions came out October 27th. I mean, that's pretty weird for a time. I think that's a very unique release date for me, because you know how... Yeah. Look, Avengers, right? Avengers Infinity War. That's... I mean, sure, they're saying that Infinity War is its own film. It'll have an ending, but there's going to be Avengers 4. Yeah. Or in the next year, right?

17:04That's 2020. At least they're not like marketing nothing about Avengers 4. At least they're doing that. It's like, you have no idea what's going to be the next one. Yeah. But they still are pushing it back one year. Like, they're never doing it within the same year. That might just be because of... Yeah, but that might just be because of oversaturation of just big budget movies showing up all the time. Maybe. Yeah. But in this case, it was like that. But when we were hyping about it, when we were younger, I... What do you guys remember of the hype? Let's talk about that. I would love... This is one of the big reasons why I wanted to talk about the film is because I wanted to talk about how our anticipations... Yeah. Let's see. Showed up. So we watched, like we said, Matrix 2001. Yes.

17:44So we basically had two years to hype. But we didn't know about Matrix 2. I was going to say, when did we find out about Reloaded? I can't say for sure. I can't. I can't remember. 2002? I can't remember. 2003? Maybe even? Definitely 2002. Sometime late 2002. Because we used to buy GamePro Magazine. German Gaming Review Magazine. Well, it's an American Review Magazine. Yeah. They had a German version. And they had extra DVDs in there. Right? Remember that? We always got the magazines with the extra DVDs. And they tended to not only show trailers for video games and, you know, reviews of video games. But they also showed trailers of movies. That's right. That's right. And that's how we...

18:25Hmm? That's funny because I think that's how I saw that. It was like a video game magazine as well. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Like had trailers on it. That's where I saw it the first time. That's right. I think. And you guys were much more internet savvy back then. I don't think I looked up stuff. I think most of my information that I knew about the sequels was coming from Phil and his emails. Wow. Like sending me posters and stuff. The most reliable news source. Phil's emails. Yeah. 13-year-old Phil's emails. Phil's emails, yeah. Making stuff up in his head too. Yeah. That's why... So, but wasn't it a commercial? Wasn't it a trailer for Revolutions? Yeah. They were... The teaser was showing both Revolutions and Reloaded.

19:07That's what we saw first. See? That's the mistake. Yes. It's too much. Too much. Yeah. Because like the trailer... I mean, if you watch the trailer, it's just Morpheus going, this is a war. We are soldiers. Oh, it was the combo trailer. Yeah. But they didn't show anything from Revolutions. Oh, they didn't? Just Reloaded. Oh. And when... In the trailer, it's cut like this. This is a war. Oh. And we have Morpheus. And then when he says, we are soldiers, there's a shot of Zion in the cave, right? Where all of them are like cheering for Morpheus. I just saw it once. So, I never got to see it again. I never rebounded or like did any trailer analysis. So, in my head, I can still remember how I envisioned it in my head, how I remembered

19:49it. And I thought it was Morpheus in the Matrix with his Morpheus coat and he's like standing at a pulpit or something and there's like warriors in the Matrix. Yeah. And Morpheus is, you know, starting a, like raising an army. Did the tentacles come out of his eyes? Yeah. And that's what I saw in my head and I saw Neo Trinity, but somehow I can't remember being very excited. I was just like, I want to see the film, but it wasn't like I was obsessing over it or looking up stuff. Yeah. Because I was occupied with Lord of the Rings. I guess. I really, yeah, Lord of the Rings was, was, was a pretty big one. Oh, that's right. Honestly, I'm wrecking my brain trying to remember because I was such a big Matrix fan. I was the Matrix apostle. I would fight anyone who would like claim there's a better movie than the Matrix.

20:32But I don't remember anything except when I saw it, you know, the magical story of how I saw Matrix Reloaded. An anticlimax. Yeah. What? The way you watched it. It's like, you know, you're not waiting for a cinema. You're not doing anything. You're not just. No, no, no. But the thing is, yeah. I mean, like, did I tell the story on the podcast? You did, but to be honest. People forgot. I thought it was something you forgot. But I do remember the dynamics. Oh, okay. So. Personally. I can tell a short story. I mean, like a tiny one. It was me and my friend. We went to these places. We play video games. Oh, yes. It's like a lawn party and you pay and we were playing video games and it was empty. No one was there except two of us. And on the left, we saw, I mean, it was amazing because it wasn't, I think back then, like

21:17movies were released kind of like gradually throughout the world. Yeah. Back then. So it was different. America. And then a couple of months later, it'll be like where I used to live in Serbia. So I think it was out in America, but here in a cinema, it wasn't even out yet. And I saw like there was a disc, you know, like a CD and unwritten Matrix reloaded. And we're like, what is that? I was like, is that the soundtrack? Is that the movie? What is that? We have to know. So me and a friend stole it from this place. We went to his house and we watched it. It was like a shitty like cinema rip. Is this the one that, the cam? I saw the cam. The cam. Yeah, the cam. From like the front row. Yeah, it was like a cam.

21:57It was sort of distorted. Yes. Terrible audio. But we were just like, this is the Matrix. The audio was good. No, no. No. I don't think so. I just remember it really crappy. It was funny watching it now. Like, because in my head, that's like the one that I saw first. So it's like you're in the cinema, basically. Like, basically. And that was the one we watched and we were like, like, you know, our minds were blown. We were so confused. But anyway, but then this one kid that was hanging out there, he saw us take it. So he told the boss. And the funny thing is that that video game place, it was like right across the street from my friend. Really? Oh, perfect. So they just walked in, knocked on the gate. Like, hey, did you guys steal the Matrix? They're like, no, no, we didn't. We didn't.

22:38Did you steal our stolen copy of the Matrix? Yeah. And we're like, no, we didn't. So, but we already copied it. So the next day we got our friend to bring it over and leave it on the desk. Perfect. Perfect crime. But we had the copies. The hackers, you covet your traces. That's why we saw the Matrix reloaded. The shitty Divix. You covet your traces. Like, cinema thing. What? Check it for recording. Yeah. Yeah, look, see? It's red. Okay, I'm just making sure we're recording. Yeah, now I remember that story because that was a wild time. Yeah. Hacker wars. I just remember it was like one of those things, like you're in a video game, like in a movie. I think we were even talking about the Matrix is coming. How are we going to see it? And they're just like.

23:18There it is. It's amazing. I'm more amazed that it didn't say Matrix 2 on the CD. Yeah. No, it definitely said Matrix reloaded. Interesting. That was amazing. That's fascinating. Well, anyway, with our hype machine, honestly, I didn't really think much about it. Like, I was waiting for it to come out. You know, I think back then it was more like, oh, it's coming out. They're making it. Yeah. And you didn't really read about this stuff online or you didn't really get too much information. So you just knew out there they're making it. Yeah. And you wait till it comes out. With a teaser trailer, I thought they were releasing both at the same time. Oh, okay. Because it said Matrix reloaded. And then it said Revolutions. And it said 2003.

23:59Oh, see, confusing. Back to back. Yeah, back to that. And I thought they're releasing it at the same time. So when I go to the theater, I can pay a ticket for Matrix reloaded. And then when I'm done, just go to Revolutions. Phil, Phil, Phil universe. Yeah, that's right. No rules whatsoever. I thought that's so bold. That's amazing. Phil's rules make, they make themselves up. I remember telling Jacob that. He goes, oh, that's great. We don't have to wait for anything. I'll just go immediately. It's great. And then I, younger brother, just believe the words of my older brother. Everything. Everything is truth. So we watched the Matrix reloaded. Before this. Okay. There's a poster. Listen, there were these posters that were released on the Matrix website of all the characters.

24:39The white background posters. Just give me like a signal when I can talk. Okay. Just keep going. The white background posters. I remember the white background posters. Yeah. And they were showing them on the website. And they're like, here's the uncropped ones. Because the ones for the marketing was cropped images of the characters. So there's a white background. And there's like Morpheus. But you don't get to see the top of his head. Oh, yeah. That's right. It was cropped. Yeah. And those are. Oh, yes. Those are the actual posters. Yes, I remember now. Those are the ones that they printed. But on the website, you could see the whole ones. Exclusive? Yeah. Exclusive. And I'm like, cool. I'll print them out in our laser printer. Oh, that's right. You're printing them out. That's right. I remember that. And I stuck them on the wall. And I stuck them on Stan's wall. Because Stan was there. Yeah. And I was like, look. They're making the next ones. And he's like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Very excited. Very excited.

25:19Oh, this. Let's give me a point of reference. This is at this point you were living in Croatia, right? Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But then we took a visit to the States in May. And of course, since it's May, Matrix Reloaded was coming out. And there were trailers at Chicago when we went to CompUSA. I remember. And I was like, look, Jacob. There's like a ton of Agent Smiths. Yeah, I don't remember that. No? Okay. I think CompUSA is gone, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It's gone. But it was a retail, computer retail store. Anyway, we watched the Matrix Reloaded at our beloved Anderson, Indiana cinema called the Applewood 9.

26:00Okay. Which I don't know if that thing is gone. I think it's done. Oh, it's totally. It's done. I think they even like demolished it. Yeah, I think so. But back then it was like the flagship cinema of Anderson. And I remember we went with me and you, our dad, and then also our uncle. Yeah, Peppa. Our Uncle Peppa. That's it. That's it. Not Andy? Yeah. I don't remember. I don't think so. Okay. Well, anyway. So we went to watch it together and... We couldn't have watched it alone because... Radar. They wouldn't let us. Radar. Yeah, we had to go with. Yeah. I was 14. Jacob was... 10. 10. And... There were some teenagers in the background who were a little too loud and I was upset. Really? And I got annoyed. And in the theater, I was pretending like if only I could be like Neo just standing up and going,

26:41Stop that. Perfect. I still remember that. Stop it. Stop it. And that's it. That's the story. I do remember the cinema being slightly smaller. It wasn't huge. The theater. I do remember that. It wasn't like the biggest theater. No. And I also remember I had to cover my eyes for the sexy scenes. Yeah. I think... I remember talking to you guys about that. Like you had to go see it with your dad. And I was like... It was the most awkward thing. What about the sexy stuff? It was so awkward. I was watching this like just sinking in my chair. But today or back then? Really? Back then. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. Why? Because my dad was there. My uncle was there. You were like... Did they see me watch this?

27:22And then when I was 10, I was like, oh no, this is bad. I can't look at this. And I put my shirt over... Oh, it's sinful stuff. Exactly. And I put it over my eyes. Those sinful close-ups of faces. I know. And the skin. Skin. Neo's butt at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. Anyway, that's Matrix Reloaded. Well, we can get into the film then. Okay. Yeah. So. We will begin. Go. Go. Say something. Say something about how it starts. Make a general overview of the beginning of the film. It starts exactly the same as the first one. Yes. The codes come down. Tim, Jim, you said you didn't want to hear this. I know. But I don't know. I don't know. What else do you do? Okay. Well, the codes come down. It says the Matrix Reloaded.

28:03And then the camera moves into the codes. And here it goes. This is like clockwork. And it looks better than the first one with the toasters. I mean, the effects were better. That is true. There's a code. There's a code scene that back in the... And that was showing off now. It's like, oh, look. It goes through like atoms and like Yule universes. Like it goes. Yeah. Look how much CGI we can do. Like it moves and it's all crazy. Yeah. There's no record log. So what's interesting is that I totally forgot that the Matrix Reloaded starts like this in the sense that I remember the scene where Trinity infiltrates the plant. But I totally forgot that we see Trinity dying. Oh, yeah. The cold opening, right? I totally forgot that we see Trinity dying in the opening.

28:43I totally didn't remember that. I just thought it was the thing for Trinity in the plant. And then we somehow continue. I personally think that Trinity's move that she makes when she jumps off the motorcycle and does that backflip. I think it's one of the best moves in the movie, to be honest. I think it's actually a pretty cool opener, I have to say. What do you think, Tim? I mean, yeah, I forgot about the cold opening as well. I like that, you know, that storytelling technique that was utilized. I remember, I'm just trying to remember all the stuff that, you know, how it went out when I saw it the first time. Because I haven't seen, maybe seen it, you know, when it came out a couple of times. And then maybe for like 10, 15 years, I haven't seen this movie.

29:23So unlike The Matrix, the first one, I've seen it a lot of times. Yeah. Well, we've been with it for the first whole year. That is true. But, you know, like this, I do have still the memories of watching this for the first time and having questions and confusions of the old times. The memory mostly is mostly confusion. And, you know, you're watching the movie and it's reminiscent of some of the stuff you remember from Matrix, such as the action sequences and even some of the dialogue and stuff like that. But overall, it's like, plot wise, I was like, um, um, they're saying really smart stuff. Yeah. I don't know what that means. Speaking of the codes, there's even, and it's not used, you know, any time after.

30:09But there's a code transition when, uh, when we move from one part of the code opening to another one. It gets like, it looks like a TV show. She's like, I'm in. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my goodness. Like the code, like, like wisps away, like, like with wind and we go into another scene from within the code. Well, there's some new things also to mention that, you know, obviously our characters have changed a little bit in appearance. Trinity looks different in Reloaded. Yeah. What do you guys think of that? I don't like her cowlick. No. We kind of laughed. Me and Emma were watching this today and we kind of laughed out loud when she came in with like this slick hair and just like, yeah, like she's like, she's like inside like this leather, leather thing.

30:51It's like, it's not as flattering as like the more rugged looking macho Trinity instead of this like smooth leathery one. I honestly don't think it kind of makes sense in the story wise. Like he's getting premonitions because he's the one. So he's seeing the future. But I don't think this kind of disjointed storytelling kind of works for this movie at all. The cold opening likes to scare. Oh, Trinity's dying. I don't know. It's kind of like cheesy. I mean, it makes sense throughout the whole thing. But I don't know. Well, I think it just gets into another point, which is that I'm jumping ahead here. But Neo is, he's really, he's just super serious.

31:35He's just serious. And he's just, oh, I don't know what to do. That's okay. I mean, that makes sense. He does joke a bit with the agents and stuff like that. I think in my opinion, it wasn't enough of that. I think he was way too stiff. Seriously. So yeah. So Neo wakes up. He has nightmares all the time. And then Trinity's like, well, don't worry. She's going to call. The Oracle's going to call. We're going to. It's like when, yeah, you went on a date and then she doesn't come back. No. Yeah. So Neo opens the movie with, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. That's true. That's great. Storytelling wise, that's a great idea. You know? Yeah. Because you become the one, you become the prophecy.

32:16What then? Like life doesn't end until you die and whatever great obstacle you conquer and whatever great achievement you have, the question is after what then, you know? Yeah. And it's good that we get to explore that after the triumphant victory of the first one. Yeah. Because you normally don't think what happens after, but this is sort of. But does it follow through? Does it follow through? Machines. Well, let's keep going. What does that mean? What does it follow through? Well, will we, will we see what he's meant to do? Oh, okay. Yeah. Like a little story. Will his answers be questioned? Will the answers be questioned? Actually, that's, that, that is, that is the story of this movie. That is true. The answers are being questioned right now. Okay. Oh, look, I've accidentally made a thing. You meant that to do that.

32:56Of course. Of course. Our characters are late to the meeting. Yes. We're introduced to Link. She looks much better in real world. Oh yeah, that's right. That's right. We're introduced to Link. The longer hair looks better in like real life. Oh yeah. In the real life. Yeah. Anyway, there's Link, new character. Oh yeah. The hero of time. How do you guys feel about that? I mean, I'm such a protective person. What could you do? I hate a recast and stuff. I know, I know. What could you do? He's not a recast. I'm just like, I know it's not a recast, but it's an obvious, like, oh, the other guy had to go. Yeah. He's dead. He's dead. He's this guy. He's dead. Obviously, they wanted Tank to continue. Yes, clearly. You know, the four-man crew that survived continues this journey. That would be great. Thanks, Marcus. It's sort of a classic sad situation where in a sequel you have less of the characters

33:41from the first film and you find fewer characters from the first film. And it makes it a little bit sadder because, you know, it feels like the party is left in some sense. And then you kind of cut on time because you have so many of these extra scenes we need to explain. Like, oh, you know, you trust me. You have to trust me. Like, telling him the new crew. And it's like this obvious expose. Yeah, about you're new here, so please trust me. Yeah. Okay. Or like, oh, who are they? Oh, they were my sister's brothers, cousins. Uncles. Uncles. You know, like, that's why I'm here. Pointless. Let's move on with the plot. I don't care about this. I agree. So anyway, they're late to the meeting, right? Link comes in and he goes, are we ready?

34:22And then Link goes, you're late. It's like, come on, dude. When I was watching this, you know, first time when I was younger, I was like, stop being so mean to the cool guys. Again. Who are you? He's the one. Oh, you. You're new. Yeah. You're dumb. And so we get to the underground meeting. Oh, but by the way, I thought you wanted to mention last time to connect us to the anime, just be like, oh, here's the thought of the Osiris. Yeah. Same thing. You know. But that's at the meeting. Yeah. At the meeting. Yeah. Yes. So we get to the meeting. They have to talk about serious things. Yeah. We're introduced to so many different characters. You can't keep up. God, this is so bad. Tell me about this, Tim. This is what we talked about and we mentioned this and it's just, it's so annoying that

35:04who made up their dress code? Why are they all dressed up as Matrix people? Yeah. Yeah. We should talk about this because this is again the question of why would this be some kind of a thing to dress coolly? I don't know. With the Matrix. It's like when you have like the one crew, you kind of, you don't care about it because it's a small group of people and you just don't think about the fact that they dress in a certain way. But the crew could have just come up with that as something, their own thing. Morpheus is dressed cool. Yeah. Or Morpheus picks people who are similar minded and for some most strange coincidence, this is the fashion that they all like. Exactly. And there's variety. It's definitely.

35:45It's just... And this is the sort of thing, in my opinion, where you make a sequel and there's elements in the first story that you then expand upon. And in my opinion, sometimes you wrongly apply them. Yeah. Like in this sense, like, oh, everyone wears cool clothes. I mean, it's obvious. They're all hacker types, you know, but it's just, it, I would have maybe a little bit of explanation. Like, I hate that stuff when it's like, explain why they have all the sunglasses because it's, they need sunglasses because, you know, I don't know, agents have trouble tracking people who can't see their eyes. I don't know. Some kind of bullshit. Like maybe it would have worked. But I have to give a little bit of, you know, credit, a little bit of that in this meeting,

36:25not everyone has glasses. It would have been so hilarious if every single person had glasses. Yeah. At least there's some people who, who just don't have glasses. Like the guy, the captain of the hammer, the negative Nancy guy. He's just wearing a normal business suit. He's like wearing a suit. I think that's nice. That's good. That, when I was a kid, I was annoyed with that guy. Uh-huh. Look at you. Now you're trying to change. I was like, who is this guy? Why is this businessman? Where is his glasses? Where is his cool stuff? But now I'm like, this guy, this guy, this guy knows what he's doing. Yeah. Anyway, the point is that the media are talking about the machines drilling into Zion and that's a problem. And they're saying that the machines are going to be in Zion. And what was it? Like 70 some hours? Like 20, like 40 hours. Like something like that. Yeah. 48 hours.

37:06Two days. Not much time. And Niobe's there, new character. And she's like, these are the last transmissions of the Osiris. If you watch the Animatrix, you will know. Yep. What was those transmissions about? The thermonuclear. No. Thermal scans. Thermal scans of how many machines there are. And how far down they are. And Morpheus wants... Oh, yes. Yes. He's, what's it called? Soliciting. He's soliciting his prophetic themes. It's so good. I love that this movie that there's someone on my side finally, like, you know, pointing to the bullshit of Morpheus.

37:47Well, that's the thing. That's what I also like in the sequels is that this is a great example. And this is, again, if you watch the Philosopher's Commentary of all the Matrix movies, they talk about this a lot. How, like, here we get to see Morpheus in a new light, which is that he's so dogmatic. And, you know, in the Matrix Loaded, we'll see that this is actually Morpheus' downfall is his... Overconfidence. He's holding on so tightly to this belief of his that he's shattered when he is confronted with the truth, right? Which is a destruction of his belief system. And that's basically what they're showcasing is, especially how his belief system is in

38:31relation to other people, because not everyone believes in Morpheus' beliefs. Yeah, we find out that... Because we were in this bubble and then Nebuchadnezzar going, oh, yeah, like, yeah, this is, you know, this is... He's the Lord of Zion. Yeah. And now we're seeing, like, wait a minute, like, a lot of people don't agree with this. So... It's amazing. I love just, like, just that contrast, just him going in there, like, with his, you know, dogmatic ways of saying... It's such an interesting contrast. You know, you must just believe. And everyone's just like, Morpheus, you old fool. You know, you old Obi-Wan, old Ben. Old fool Ben. Old fool Ben. That's what Tim calls Obi-Wan. So anyway, just to get the plot along, he asks for one of the ships to stay at broadcast

39:13depth to... Because in case, the Oracle will cause. Because he's saying that the prophecy can't be fulfilled until the Oracle contacts them. To see what the one has to do. Right. And people are like, no, I don't want to do that. Most of them are like, no, I'm not going to do that. Because they got specific orders that everyone has to come back because of the drilling machines. Oh, there we go. Thank you, Tim. We need all the ships to defend the city. And he's like, I'll, you know, I'm asking one of you to disappear. Like, he would do it, but he needs, like, food and stuff. I think he needs... He needs to refuel the ship. The chip. Yeah. The chip. And then the boxer guy says, if you want me to do that, I'll do it. Just to see what Commander Locke will do to you.

39:54Yeah. Just to see what Debo does to you. I mean, that's one of those sentences that... See what Debo does to you? You got 48 hours. Yeah. That's like a sound to me. Like when I was a kid, I didn't understand what that meant. It's just a sound. Just to see what Debo does to you. That's all I heard. He's like, do, do, do, do, do. That's the quote I remember. By the way, speaking of which, this opening sequence, this is the first time in my life I understood what they're talking about. It's exactly the same thing, Jacob. The entire movie. I understood what everyone was talking about. I was like, uh-huh. I understood. It made sense. So this is what this movie is about. This is the plot. Because before it was just like... Exactly. 48 hours, 70, broadcasting, blah, blah, blah.

40:36Debo does to you. It's all this is. It's so clear. It's crystal clear this time. This opening sequence. I was like, okay. Yeah. Makes sense. Osiris. Now we know what we're talking about. Yeah. So in the meantime, Neo senses that there are agents up there. And Neo has also got an upgrade. Spidey senses. Yeah. His clothes are bishop-like. They're awesome. He turns into priest. He turns into priest Neo. And I like it. I like it a lot. The orthodox priest Neo. Just imagine him being there with his normal Matrix 1 clothing. I wish. No, no, no, no. I think this is good. I actually agree with you, Phil. I didn't used to like it. I thought like, oh, this is kind of lame. But this is great. I think it's a very slick. It's a slick look.

41:17And it's less of this action-y feel in the first film. It's okay. I think it's a bit too soon. Because I think the clothes that he's wearing kind of shows him embracing being the one and being this messiah. It's very self-important, that clothes. Because it's like long. Like, I am the one. Let me show you. You know, like he's very distinct from anyone. Morpheus made of the silhouette. I guess, you know, maybe Morpheus is like, you know, now you're the one. You're saying that Neo probably wouldn't have done that himself. He probably would have just been a regular. I don't think someone who's saying, I don't know what to do, would wear clothes like that.

41:59That's someone who's like, okay, I have to show an image to these people. I have to show them that I am the messiah. Right. It's a bit too much. It doesn't click with the character yet to me. That makes sense. I think so. But on the other hand, like, what do I know? You know, that's just my opinion. So he senses there's agents. He goes up there. But before that, there's a mysterious man who gives a letter to who in the script is called Corrupt. Corrupt man. Yeah, his name is Corrupt. C-O-R-R-U-P-T-A. The guy who goes, fine, whatever. Now piss off. I've never heard of him. Also, there's a... In the script, that's his name. There's a shot that... Who is? I want to point out another shot that Phil got inspired by and used at least four or

42:43seven different movies. Okay, let's hear it. This is the shot where the lights are behind Agent Smith and he's looking through the box. Oh, yes, yes. Oh, yes. I think Phil, like, did this, like, a hundred times. He's just like... No shame in that. It looks great. I was watching. He's like, oh, look at this. By the way, I have to say, some of the stuff at the beginning of the movie, in my opinion, and we'll get into this later, but there's... Quite a bit of things they're already pushing in the film. And I think the structure isn't very clear. Like, for instance, Agent Smith gives him the little earpiece, right? He's gone, but then the doors bust open and it's agents.

43:24Yeah. Now, this confused me to no end when I was younger. I was like, what in the world? I was like, that's not Agent Smith. Where's Agent Smith? Right. But I think it's deliberate, though, Jake. I think that that was... It is deliberate, of course. Because... I'm just saying that, like, it is quite confusing to... Yeah. Yeah. To... If you're not really paying attention. Yeah. Neo comes up and he's like, who is it? And then this black guy, and his name is Worm with a U in the script. Nice. And he goes, how'd you know someone was here? And it's like, what do you mean? I'm the one. I know everything. I like that they call him Sir. Like, there's like... Yes, Sir. There's like ranks. Everything okay, sir?

44:04Yeah. I was like, what? And he gives the envelope... They're hackers. They're all the same level. I wanted to say, he gives the envelope to Neo, and he opens it, and he said, he said, you said I'm free. You know? And I feel like this whole thing, because we're talking about the structure of how the opening is played out. And I feel like Smith didn't even have to show up until a little bit later. And I felt like that would have been... Yeah, too soon. That's what I meant with a lot of stuff being piled up at the beginning. Yes. I agree with you. There was a lot of stuff that I was surprised that happened so early. I, in my head, thought they happened later on. There's like a more buildup. And I have to say that the non-linear storytelling with the cold opening and everything, and I think it was a bit too much, because this movie, like, philosophically and idea-wise

44:47and plot-wise expands quite a bit compared to the first one. So adding even that level of non-linear storytelling... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Too much. I think it confused too much people. And not only that, but as well, they had a lot of things that they wanted to do here, but they just sort of just kind of... Yeah. Again, a lot more world building as well. I'm getting this movie after watching it many, many times. Now, granted, I didn't watch it that much, but when I was younger before and I watched it, but you really can't... I think you can't soak all this in on a first viewing with Reloaded. No. I think this is not a movie that it's very difficult to think that hard and concentrate, like, oh, this is that and this is that.

45:28Oh, that makes sense. You know? Yeah. Which is a shame because the first one is total opposite. The first one is like, it sucks you in, you watch it the first time you get it. Mm-hmm. Yep. So, anyway. So, the agents come in, Neo battles the agents. They're upgrades. Oh, they also took the bodies, they sampled the bodies of the sexy cop and put them in the agents. Oh, yeah, yeah. Cool. Good. It's a bunch of sexy cop, really, from the first movie. Look at them. Look at them. They're all hunky with big chins. So, our friends Jones and Brown are gone, but now we have Jackson, Johnson, and some other Thompson, Thompson. Jackson, Johnson, Thompson. And there's already battling. What do you guys think about that? There's already action. Yeah, they just start fighting. Because it was very, in my opinion, it was kind of jarring. It was just like, oh, we're, you know.

46:09Yeah, we're just fighting now. Oh, like the, um, I guess. There's a lot of that in this movie, actually. Like, people meet and they're like, let's fight. I thought we had a fight going on, you know? Exactly. What are we waiting for? Let's do this. Okay, so I was reading the script of the Matrix Reloaded shooting script. There's one little change that is maybe interesting to you. The agents, when they get in, they open the door, they bust through the door, and they take out their guns, and they're like, wait, no, it's him. The anomaly. Do we proceed? Oh. Yes. He's still. You see? There you go. Fixed for Jake. That's cool. There you go. Maybe they already know, so they sort of fight him. Like, you know. And then we got the Rob Dogen, Furious Angels going on.

46:51It's a very short fight, too. He's like, hmm, upgrades. Well, it's a short fight because Neo flies away. Yeah. After the battle. And that's when I got reminded, I go, oh, yeah. Neo flies. Neo flies. He's off. Yeah. And in the air. He does have a little exchange with them, doesn't he? Like a little talk before they fight, doesn't he? A little bit. Like, I think he says something. He just says upgrades. He has a little, like, quippy. That's it? That's what he says? Cool. Upgrades. When they fight a little bit, and then he's about to punch him. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's right. And then one of the agents grabs his hand before he punches him. And so now that's upgrade. Wow, they're actually really strong now. Stronger. Oh, they're cool.

47:32No, because he says, howdy, fellas. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. And then he gets to. And then he just starts attacking him, yeah. And he flies, doing his Superman thing. All the people are disappearing from the meeting because the agents came. Smith shows up and goes, well, that was expected. Happened exactly before. Yeah, so this is the reveal. The reveal of Smith. Oh, yeah, see, the reveal is too soon. Too soon. And we see Double Smith, and we're like, oh, he's copying himself or something. Something's happening. Well, not exactly. Oh, we don't know he's copying himself. Oh, but I love the, when Neo does the Superman thing, it's like a little CGI Neo flying through the clouds. It's just like, oof. Yeah, oof. That's very visible right now. And then he goes to Oracle's house.

48:12They were really confident. Not only is Morpheus overconfident with his beliefs, but John Gaeta and his crew were very confident in their CG double. But I wanted to say, while watching this, to their credit, the CGI doubles is very different at the moment. Like, I'm just remembering Thor Ragnarok and Hela fighting those guys in Asgard. I mean, my opinion is, again, is the same, is that, you know, it's just great when you get to see real things in movies. It's just a beautiful thing, I think. Even if you have to lower the amount of impact you have and the extreme, extremity.

48:54The flashiness. Flashiness. Flashiness. Or sort of like, how much you can do. In my opinion, it always seems to pay off when it's real. Yeah. So, he goes to the Oracle's place and he's like, where are you? Yeah, it's nighttime too. Nighttime. That was interesting. We get to see the Oracle place at night. I was wondering if the graffiti would be different. I should have made a comparison picture. And you know, in the hallway with the graffiti. That's true. Might have been different. And so, he's looking for, because again, Neo's also wondering like, you know. Because earlier in the scene with Trinity, when he was saying like, he can't sleep and stuff like that, she was like, the Oracle will make contact soon. So, Neo's also wondering like, you know, maybe. And shut your hole, Bane, is waiting to get the Oracle's call on it.

49:35Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. But Neo is impatient, so he goes to the Oracle. And in the script, there's just two lines that Neo says that isn't in the movie. He just goes, hello. Hello. That's great. There we go. Perfect. Oh. Hello. Oracle. Yeah. Oracle, I brought noodles. These weird kids. I brought noodles. Spoon boy. I brought noodles from my family noodle place. Really good noodles. Yeah. Getting Oracle cookies. Yeah. What do I do? And then we finally get, we get to the big place that everybody's been barking on about in the first film. Yeah. Yes. Zion. The big Zion. The last city. Yeah. They get into Zion. Exciting times.

50:15Very exciting. Only place they have left. Yeah. Near the Earth's core. What do you think? Because I think many people have opinions about this. Because Zion has been so lauded in the first film. And now that we get to finally see it. Welcome home. Doors open. Beds made. Welcome home. Nebuchadnezzar. And these people in the, in the, in the construct. Yeah. Who are typing away. Oh yeah. The construct people with their special UI that we haven't seen so far. The poor bastards are stuck on the ship with their terrible like 998 UI. Yeah. These guys get to use amazing. Yeah. Like super clean, high, like minimalistic. Like bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop. It's great stuff. So thoughts on Zion. What are you guys' thoughts? I was underwhelmed when I saw it first, honestly.

50:58I don't know what I expected. I expected, because it was like in the earth, earth core. I was very like, more like what the caves are than the actual place. I mean, when you look at it, like obviously they're going to take the aesthetic of the ships and just move it to a place. But in my head, I never thought of that. I thought the ships were like completely separate, you know. That would have been nice. The Zion place would have been like an actual place. Not like a rat hole. It is a, it is a hole. It is a very deep hole. In my opinion, I also think I was underwhelmed. But I never liked when films do this, where we now get to reveal a location.

51:38And not only that, but now the storyline changes where now we get a whole new perspective, but not necessarily in a good way, where we see the very realistic side of things, such as, you know, ranks and, you know, sort of like a military quote unquote and a council like we have in the film. It felt to me, everything is very structured. It felt to me like a TV show. Everything is very sad in the sense that of course it would be like this because you have to organize, you know, a rebellion, so to speak. Yeah. And that's normal. But I'm saying that doesn't make it interesting. Yeah. And I would say that the focus of the Matrix movie that we first saw wasn't necessarily about this sort of science fiction stuff. Of course not. And that's the thing. Like, so when we get thrown into this setting, suddenly now, you know, our main characters

52:23are thrust in this world, which sort of diminishes the interesting factor from the first film. Because then we had a nice isolated story. It's like, we don't really care about the rest of the things so much. But now this is the focal point. Yeah. Now this is this big part of the movie. What is interesting about this? Is this interesting? And in my opinion, it's not really that interesting. And it makes it... I mean, not to take away from what you said, but we kind of in the first movie did, were introduced to this. Like, you know, Morpheus is the captain. And, you know, in turn she says, I am the, you know, whatever, in charge person because I'm the lieutenant, blah, blah, blah, blah, of this ship. You know what I mean? Like, it was introduced, like this hierarchy of this army was introduced, but it was never

53:05in the front. Yeah, it was in the front. It was a small scale thing. And I think that you kind of went with it because it was like a ship. It makes sense. You know, they're on a journey. They're on a mission. Yeah. But this is very big scale. And I think that, unfortunately, a lot of times when sequels do this, I feel like it detracts from an interesting story. And especially, you know, in my opinion, what I was also underwhelmed with was the look of, I don't know, I don't, they were going for sort of a very, I don't know, how would you guys describe it? Like the clothing that they have and it's sort of like Eastern-ish, but big. I don't know how to even describe it. Oh yeah, did we mention that Morpheus is, Morpheus got a nice new red shirt.

53:47He does. Oh yeah. Trinity got a nice blue shirt. And Commander has a nice yellow shirt, very Star Trek-y. It is very Star Trek-y, the whole thing I was like, yeah. I guess what I want to say is like some bits of Zion feel kind of like sort of third world in a way, you know what I mean? And yeah, I just never imagined things to be like that. I always thought it would be more like cyber. Caves. Oh, caves. No, no, I was thinking more like cyber. I don't know. Like more like a sophisticated, you were thinking more- Yeah, no, no, no. Better quality and stuff? I think it would be cleaner, but just sort of less, I have no clue how to describe it. The grungy?

54:28Less like cyber-y grunge or whatever. Keep it cyber, but who knows? Can I mention something? Yeah, go ahead. I think if they picked an idea where we never ever go to Zion, we just hear about it. Yeah, that would be great too. And you can go all kinds of different places in the real world, but everybody, like there's people who come from Zion, there's stuff like that from Zion, but we never get to see Zion and I think that would keep our imaginations- Probably. It would probably be a better idea. And- Unfortunately, Zion is part of, the integral part of this plot line. Yes, in this plot line. This plot. Okay, so here's the main thing that I feel makes it worse, and I'm sorry to say this, but the fact that these guys already have been to Zion before.

55:10Neo's been to Zion before. There is no- Oh, it's not a discovery from our point of view as well. So we're the only ones- From their point of view. Yeah, we're the only ones going, is this Zion? And Neo's like, yeah, of course it's Zion. I've been here before. You know, I know Mitch over there and Bobby over there. And the kid. Yeah. Julie. I know exactly what you mean, because the first movie we experienced through the eyes of Neo as his experience it, so it's easier to comprehend because everyone explained things to you. Now you just thrust it over like, oh, we're back in Zion again. Yeah, and I was confused myself when I watched the movie, because I thought, I was expecting that Neo never saw it before. And I was like, wait, sounds like he's been here before. Right, right. Yeah, that's a good point too.

55:51So, Morfus is taken to Commander Lock. Correct. Mifune is there. I think that's our favorite character. Don't you guys want to mention really quick that there was the kid? Yes, and then the kid shows up. Yeah, the kid's there. He's like, you saved me, saved me. Master, master. And he was like, go away, we'll kid. You can save yourself. And that's that. I mean, would this make sense if there was never a tie-in? Well, I don't know. We watched it without the tie-in. Here's the thing. I'll just mention now, since I'm jumping the gun here, but this is going to be a focal point for me, is that a lot of things in The Matrix Reloaded, a lot of scenes, not a lot, but there are quite a few scenes that I feel are not, they're not really justified, they're not integral,

56:37and therefore are unnecessary. Doesn't mean they're bad, but it means that they're not really, they're not really helping the story. And this is why I think when you compare The Matrix to the first film, every single sequence had a purpose. Every single sequence didn't overstay its welcome. And everything flowed, and it worked. And in Reloaded, I feel like there's a lot of the, let's stay in this scene for a long time. Why? Well, we can do it. And just keep going. And this is going to be a great... Just make the movie long. Yeah, this fight will be really cool, and we'll make it really long. And it's like, well, do we need it? So how about the kid? Or... Yeah, so the same thing with the kid. Or... The kid, like, that's another example. Like, he's there.

57:18Sure, it's nothing bad, but is this really important? Nope. Snip, snip. Okay, Tim, what did you want to say? I mean, no, I just want to say maybe the process of that would have been the other way around. It's like, well, we have to fill in this movie, and we have this, this, and that. Why don't we just use this? Maybe this action scene will be longer. Exactly, exactly. And I want... And why don't we just do this? And it's not like, you know, like maybe fill it in a little bit and be okay with it. Yeah, well, that's what I wanted to say. And be okay with it. And this is a bit of a general commentary, but I feel like with a movie like this, given that they probably didn't have a lot of time to write the movie or develop it. But regardless, I don't know how it would end up either way.

58:00You know, maybe these are sequels that don't have enough content to justify the length, to justify, you know, making more movies about that. Right? Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. That's my feel. Star Wars. That's my feel. That's my feel. So, we are... Yeah, so Morpheus gets sent to Commander Locke's office. Trouble. He spews more dogma out of this guy. Man, this was Morpheus at his most... Sassy Morpheus. Yeah, sassy Morpheus. Super confident. Super sassy. Super... I mean, obviously, he finally got his one, right? After five, you know, abortions, so to say.

58:41Exactly. And so now he's... He finally got his one, so he's super sass. Now, instead of walking with his tail between his legs, now he's walking around like a proud... Yeah. Yeah. A proud... I told you all, look at him. Look at him fly like Superman. And this guy doesn't care. It's lovely. It's amazing. He's like, I don't give a shit what he does in The Matrix. Right here in this real world, we get attacked by squiddies and we have to fight the squiddies. Yeah. He's very realistic. And what you do in your magical world does not concern me. Or your oracle or whatever the hell you want, Morpheus. And I just love how Morpheus is completely like... There's a glass barrier of the world. That he does not... You ask for one ship to remain behind.

59:22And also, you know what's funny? That a quote that Morpheus says is not true. He says at the end, he goes, Morpheus, we don't all believe what you do. Not everyone believes what you believe. And Morpheus says... My beliefs do not require them to. Which is not true. Of course they do. He's... If they wouldn't require them... I think he's betting on like, look Neo, he's doing stuff. I know, but he's saying... Yeah, it's basically like, yeah, you don't... Like, your belief doesn't give my belief power or something like that. It's just like, as long as I am here who believes, like, that's all I need. I don't know. I don't know. I think that he was saying that, like... Forget it. I can't think. I can't think. It's too complicated. Yeah. Anyway, the whole point was that Morpheus is very, very, very, very overconfident.

1:00:08And Locke is being like, hey, dude, we need our ships here. Let's move on. Okay. Yeah. Everybody's scared. Kid says... Kid says that there's so many ships. Everybody's scared. What's happening? And then Link's like, we're not supposed to talk about it. Yeah. And then he takes away Kid because... Oh, yeah, yeah. And I am reminded again what I talked about in our podcast about the first movie. That even in the sequel, I am not convinced by the romance of Trinity and Neo at all. Yeah. There's... Really? Them's nothing. Absolutely nothing. This romance feels like the fakest... Well, I don't think it feels like the fakest. I wouldn't put it that extreme.

1:00:48Okay. So, the way I'm saying it, it's extreme. What I'm saying is, it's not convincing to me at all. So, there's not a... I just don't know. I just don't feel the spark between those two at all. I think it just feels a little bit... The way the characters are played, it doesn't feel like there's a lot of... I don't know. I don't know. What do you think? It feels so stoic. It feels so... Stoic. That's the best way. That's a good way to describe it. Sterile. It feels like these two are programs who the only thing they're programmed to is to love the other. Like, there's no... Yeah. There's no sass. There's nothing. There's no chemistry.

1:01:29Is the word maybe you're looking for. It's like, I was faith to follow... Which is true, obviously, within the storyline. You know, that her love is based on the oracle. Yeah, that's true. It's like she's... Like, it's just... I mean, I get the context of it. It's just... Every time they kiss, it's like... Yeah. Stop it. Gross. Ew. Yeah. And then they're like... He's like, what are you saying? Like... I need to feel you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like... I need you, Trinity. I need you. Like, you don't look like you need a woman. You look like you need a... Like, I don't know, sleep. Okay, so anyway, before that happens, um... Counselor Anthony Zerbe comes in and...

1:02:10To the office. Remember that? Oh, you're talking about still about that. And then he's like, we don't need... We don't want to start a panic. And then Morpheus says, no one's going to panic because there's nothing to fear. That army will never reach the gates of Zion. Well, guys, did we miss the whole Messiah Neo with the gifts and stuff? It's just the elevator thing that I was talking about. After they try to make out in the elevator, try to get sexy in the elevator, but then it opens and there's like a lot of Eastern looking people bringing gifts because he's the Messiah, which... In the script, they kind of whisper, Neo, it's him. He has returned. He has returned. Misa. I think that was kind of interesting because like, you know, people are sort of like hearing about him and stuff like that. And so... And Neo doesn't know what to do because he's like, um...

1:02:53He's Neo, obviously. He never knows what to do. It's cool. It's proving the same part as the kid. Like, you know, people are acknowledging him as the one. I just... It's funny because as far as the leadership, it's just a very big disconnect between what Morpheus believes in the Oracle and whatever, the one, and Zion. It's just funny that within Zion, there's people who... I don't know. It kind of feels like... Well, it's like, who are these new guys? Like, seriously, like... And then Link talks to his girlfriend as well who is related... More expose. ...related to Tank and Dozer and that's about it. And she doesn't want him to go on the Nebuchadnezzar.

1:03:36So there you go. So then Morpheus' speech is going to happen. Oh, yes. And then... Oh, man. And now comes the cave. Oh, guys. The rave cave. I have things to say about this. The preacher. The preacher Morpheus moment. Man, like, as it started out... It's great. As it started out, I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then as it got towards the end... Machines! I honestly don't remember being so cheesy, but it is really cheesy. I stand here now truthfully unafraid. Why? Because I believe something you do not? No. I love it. I love it because at face value, it is cheesy. It's cheesy when you're looking at it as this is supposed to be the inspiration to the viewer. But honestly, to me watching this, it was the opposite.

1:04:17It was actually really great because when they're talking to Morpheus and the counselor is asking Morpheus to do the speech, you're kind of really scared that he's going to go, do not be afraid. I have the one. He is here. Look at him. There he is. And you can see, obviously proving my point, the cunningness of Morpheus, he's fully aware that spewing his dogma to a thousand people in the world is not going to work. He does not mention Neo. He does not mention the prophecy. He just mentions what? He's like, you know, am I afraid? I mean, I have the script right here. Am I not afraid because I believe something you don't, right?

1:04:57No. That's the only time he mentions all of that nonsense, right? It's, you know, it kind of proves that he is fully aware of everything and he's doing things purposely. The way he speaks, the way he portrays himself, it's all purposely. It's all play. He understands human psyche and he understands what people need to hear to be motivated. And that was great. I love that there was no microphone. There's just people in a cave with fire and he has to speak this preacher-like, almost like a church kind of like, oh. In the script it says, even the crews are affected by the power of his voice, especially Niobe. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She feels quivered.

1:05:38So I enjoy this a thousand times much more than when I did when I was a kid. It was like boring. But you do have to admit that it is quite cheesy. Yeah, it is cheesy, but compared to any inspirational speech by a political leader, it's always cheesy. It's always like some kind of stupid tagline. That is true. You know? Because one person is smart, but a crowd is dumb as a brick, you know? So you speak to a crowd, you always have to make it, you know, cheesy. And I like that. And also his little vest, his long vest. His little chest hair. So, Tim, what are you saying? So you unironically like it? I unironically like it because it proves he's a maniac, you know?

1:06:18I love it. I love the speech. It's so cheesily motivational, you know? Well, the point is when I was watching, I was thinking he's doing that so it will twist at the end of the film. You know? So it shows him as being wrong at the end of the film. But really? Because I don't know. I mean, this was honestly, I think this was just the council utilizing his skill as motivational. Motivational speaker. Yeah, you know? Yeah, in this sort of apocalyptic, you know, war place. Machines! My schedule is booked. Okay, so then they start... It's great. Then they all start dancing. Dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum. Oh, now it comes to the... Celebration. Okay. The rave.

1:06:58Celebrating humanity. Yes. Sexy times with Neo and Tari. So I just wanted to tell you something. This is in the script and there's a deleted little scene in the script. Okay. If you want me to read it, it's a... Okay. Fine. Sure, go ahead. So they... So as Neo is like, you know, I missed you. I can tell. I was thinking, yeah, everyone's here. She smiles, leans into whisper to his ear. Follow me. Right? And then in the script it says, as always, he does. So interior Zion resident elevator, night. Carrying their shoes, they wait for the doors to close. Even when they do, the drums can still be heard. So Neo goes... It still surprises me. What? Everything that's happened just goes away.

1:07:40And Neo goes... And I feel like I'm back in that club. And every time I see you walking towards me... Oh, no. He shakes his head, looking at his hands. Shut up. Philip, shut up. No, no. He shakes his head, looking at his hands. My palms start to sweat. And then smiling, she walks towards him. And then Neo goes... God, you scared the shit out of me. Her eyebrow cocks like a gun. I don't scare you anymore? He offers her his hand. Trinity feels them. They are wet. And then she leans in close again and whispered to him... Me too. They kiss again. You know what? They kiss again. As horrible this is, as I cringe with my butthole clenched,

1:08:23I still would have liked it to be in there because this is what I'm talking about. This is what would actually show a relationship. They're recalling past events. They're being intimate with each other the way they talk. As horrible this sounds, I would like it to be in there a little bit. Well, I mean, that's the thing, right? They don't have any of that stuff in the film. It's just... Oh, no. It's just the look at each other and kiss each other. Do you know what's interesting as well? I noticed something. Reloaded. Do you remember the shot of Neo waiting at the cave? Yes, yes. He's talking to people. He's leaning against the wall. Yes.

1:09:03The cave wall. Oh, that is true. Oh, I know where you're going with this. Yeah. It's identical to the club from the first one. I thought that was kind of cool. I like that. Yeah. I never noticed it. I never noticed it too. First time ever. So I thought that was interesting. So that's a cool thing. I just love the group he's talking to. I can imagine him being bored out of his mind. It was a thing, yeah. And there's three guys. There's always these guys. When you're sort of like a young adult, you go out with people. And there's a lot of hip people, cool people, who just want to hang around the most popular person. And they would just make up... In their heads, they would make up some kind of topic to talk about to impress that person.

1:09:45Just to be hanging out with that person. I would just imagine those three people just want to be hanging out around Neo. And they're just like, you know, I have a spoon bending or something. And Neo is just bored out of his mind because he is the one. He has to go through that stuff. And whatever trivial thing they make up, it's not going to be interesting to him. He'll pretend. He'll go, yeah, that's cool, guys. That's really cool. That's how he's doing. Keep working. Keep working on your skills, you know. Drinking some punch. One day you'll maybe fly like me. You know, with the punch. You try hard enough. It's great. So yeah, then they have sexy times. Sexy times. Realistic sexy times. It starts off really movie-like. They're in that sort of bright bread oven.

1:10:26With the candles. The candles. The candles, bread oven. I have to say, my only question is, didn't they have time to do all that during... When they're in the Nebuchadnezzar? True. True. I guess Morpheus was like, no sex on my shirt. None. I think maybe... None whatsoever. Maybe the soundproofing isn't that good. But then again, how is that possible? The entire Nebuchadnezzar just like echoing. And then Morpheus in his cabin. Here they come. Listen, I wanted to say... Puts on his little hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he just waits for this to be over. Exactly.

1:11:07He puts the hat on his blanket. And then he sits them down. He's like, there's only one thing I need to ask. I love you. Will you stop having sex? But he wouldn't worry like that. He'd be like, this ship does not have any kind of audio isolation. Maybe just keep that in mind when... Yeah. When you're together. When you're together. Yeah, that's perfect. So vague. But how is that possible? When did you see the giant... I don't know. You can't just go into this construct and do this stuff. Oh, yeah. That is true. Oh, no, wait. The whole point is that, you know, it's humanity. It is. But think about it, though. I mean, they could like go anywhere. That's true. But then their clothes would get soiled as in the real world.

1:11:49It's true. That's a little pun. Okay, okay. Okay, so... But no, no. I wanted to say, how is it possible to soundproofing if the doors are so giant? There has to be. I don't know. There's no point. This is what I mean. I don't know. There's no point. I think, look, the whole point of this montage... I thought the scene was pretty awkward. The whole scene. It's good. I mean, that's at least the... It was realistic towards... It starts off very Hollywood sexual, like snakes just like coiling together. But the climax, it was like very... Like they were sweaty. Their faces were red. True. So it was very like realistic looking. True. It wasn't like Hollywood like... Ah! That's true. So that was good. But then you got the rave going on with a bunch of people jumping out of the rave. Well, this is what it says. Interior Zion Temple night.

1:12:30The liquid fire seems to be creating a forge, melting the multitude of bodies into a single driving force. And then, you know, sweat, spit, and mud fly from the ground, drawing fury with the rhythmic slap of naked feet against the wet clay. And then Interior Zion Trinity's room night. Neo enters Trinity. Right? Enter the matrix. And then it cuts back and then to the dancing and then Interior Zion Trinity's room night. Two become one. Interior Zion Temple night. The cave trembles. The earth seems ready to crack. And yeah, there we go. Okay. Yeah. Blaze. Blaze. It's, you know, showing the human side, which is fine.

1:13:10It's completely fine. I think it's gone on a little bit more than it should. But then the... I wasn't grooving it, honestly. I don't know. But then the point... It's weird because I remember along... What, Philip? What? Nothing. Go on. Tell me. Come on. Say it. Say it. The point of it was the Neo sees Trinity dying. What? You don't remember that, do you? You mean after? Yes. Oh, like Dreams again? Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. And then he's like, oh no! Premonition stuff. I don't think it's the point, but I mean, it's part of it. No. It's part of it. I mean, you can shoot out at any time. They talk and they go to bed and he dreams. I dream. I dream of a dream.

1:13:50So yeah, he dreams of Trinity dying. Yeah. Right? Yep. The end. The end. The movie ends. That's it. And thank you everyone for listening to the Matrix. That was it. So basically everything culminated there. Yeah, stuff happened afterwards. Yeah. Oh, the counselor. The counselor talks about machines. Yeah, let's get through this. Let's get through this. This is the most convoluted. We don't really get through this, guys. We just have a lot left. Let's get just, let's just get. That's okay. Before, before the counselor. Oh, but, but, but, but, but, but, but. Before, before the counselor, Bane and his friend try to get out of the Matrix. I don't know what they're doing. Oh, that is true. Oh, wait. They're the ones who, they're the ones who stayed. They're the ones who stayed back. Oracle contacts them. I didn't know this.

1:14:31Yes. This makes, this makes sense. Now, when I watched it, no sense what's wrong for Bane. Well, of course it didn't. Because it should have been the boxer guy, you know, the shut your hole, Bane. Yeah. Because he's the one who said he was waiting, you know. I don't know. We, we get these extra characters. We have no idea who they're about. But, so, so they get the message from the Oracle. They have a little packet, just like the Osiris people again. Yeah. And as they're getting out, Smithy comes in and copies himself into this dude. Bane. Yeah. And then he transports into the real world. And another, another time where I totally understand what was happening compared to, by the way, I'm talking about like, compared to when I was very young watching this movie. Yeah.

1:15:12I had no clue. I had no clue what was happening. Who are these guys? The phone, picking up the phone, transitions, what? But, but it makes perfect sense. Like you described it. Yeah. It makes perfect sense. It's, it's, it's interesting. And it's, it's a good, it's a good, I don't know. I don't know. Like the Smith, the him multiplying. I don't know what, what, what the. I don't even know what, what's up with that. What the idea was behind it. Phil mentioned something interesting, which is you were saying, Phil, that maybe this should have been the intro of Smith. Yeah. I think I agree with you. I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Because we would then not be bogged down with other extra storylines. And then we would go, oh, he's back. I think. He's back. The idea was that, you know, he kind of like puts his hand in this guy and makes another

1:15:53copy of himself. He puts his hand in his guy. What are you talking about, Tim? He puts a hand in his ass. No, look. His can in the ass. But he, he copies, he copies himself into this guy. Yeah. So we needed to see him copying into someone else to make a copy. So we're familiar. So we're familiar with the concept because we'd be too confused. If he all of a sudden makes another Smith of this guy and then he also transformed to the real too much. Just like, you're like, what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. So you see like, gradual, I kind of like, we get like bits of Smith. But he, he, this should have been happening a little bit later on. Like, whoa. Exactly. More important things. There's too much stuff going on. And then this, this stupid white old man keeps talking about machines.

1:16:33Well, before we're into the white old man, I truly believe that we should have seen more of this guy who Smith inhabits in the real world. Because honestly, again, if you watch the movie once, you have no time to look at his face clearly. You miss it. Yeah. You miss it. And then you miss that it's Smith. Yeah. And then, I mean, obviously, you know, if you're, if you're an intelligent viewer, you will maybe pick up on his mannerisms that he's doing. He does pick up the Smith. But that's, I mean, that's a bit of a stretch. Even, even the, like, the theme, the Agent Smith leitmotif shows up, but that's also a very minimal thing. But again, like, if you missed it, if you missed it, then you're going to be like, If you, you know, your popcorn fell down, you lean over to pick up your popcorn.

1:17:14One minute, half of the movie's gone. Like, what is this guy? Who is this guy? That beats me, to be honest. And I think that maybe, this is my opinion, but maybe the Wachowskis are trying to be very clever in doing all these things. Like, you have to pay attention and pick up on everything. Yeah. But, honestly. Yeah, no, no. I think their whole thing was like, you know, the blanket statement is, well, this is a movie you can't just watch once. I understand that. Yeah, that's true. That's fine. But I'm saying that at the same time, it does. You have to make an entertaining film. It is nice when everything works and you can watch and have a great experience. Mm-hmm. Because it's not interesting. You know, like, there's nothing wrong with mystery. Yes. You know? But there's wrong with confusion. You need to, people need to understand what is happening, you know. And, I mean, ultimately, we would all agree, right, that a good film cues you in on when

1:17:57you have to, when something's important. And it's not going to hit you over the head with it, but it's going to sort of like, you know, just make it a little bit apparent where you go, uh-huh, naturally, you know. Yeah. And not like, there's nothing, not like you have to make footnotes of like, oh, minute 43. You know, like, you can use the unknowingness for, you know, buildup or for anything like, like, if a person, the viewer doesn't know what's going on, you can use that, but it has to be deliberate. You have to be in control of that situation. You have to deliberately not give them details because then it builds up mystery. It builds up like, you know, uh, whatever, you know, like, like, like some kind of dynamic.

1:18:38But if it's confusion that you're like, who's this guy? What, what is this? And it doesn't, you know, that's not the point of it. Then you kind of like, just like wasting time there. Exactly. With someone. They're too, they're too preoccupied with like trying to figure things out when in the end it's like, oh, I just missed that, you know. And it's like, wow. Okay. So we're rambling on about the same thing. So, so the counselor, so the counselor is talking to him about machines and it's very boring, but the whole point is that we're just, um, what is the point actually? The point is, the point is that in revolutions, um, the, the whole idea was like, oh, look, it's a kind of giving you a taste of machines and humans working together. The old guy himself said there was no point.

1:19:19Yeah. And then what is his point of him coming there and talking to you? The point in the end is that he allows Nebuchadnezzar to leave. That is true. Oh, he's just like him to like say, oh, you know what? I, I, I, I, his last lines are, I have no, no, I have absolutely no idea how you're able to do some of the things you do, but I believe there is a reason for this as well. I only hope that we understand that reason before it's too late. Okay. So the point is like, okay, I'll give you some power. Yeah. Okay. Can we also, since we're here and I'll totally forget if I don't mention it now, talk about how, in my opinion, I'm not a big fan. Shut your whole bane. The, put you in one. The vague dialogue in this film, I'm really not a fan. Um, I feel like a lot of the dialogue in the movie to me feels half baked.

1:20:04Um, and I just think that, uh, it seems like it's missing that sort of oomph that we had from the first film where every bit of dialogue feels very deliberate. And this movie feels like every bit of dialogue is trying a little too hard and ultimately isn't very, it sounds more clever than it is basically. And I know it's a blanket statement, but I think that overall that was the feel I got with a lot of the dialogue. What do you guys think? I mean, that's, that's just the, that's the effect of, of, of you, when you, to get that sort of super concise and super to the point dialogue, you have to keep trimming and keep adjusting and you need time for that.

1:20:45Did you guys get that impression or no? Definitely. I mean, I have, I have, I remembered a funny thing is that, um, because the impression that I got from adults from the first movie was like, there was a lot of quotes that were very philosophical and high meaning. And this was the impression I had. This is what matrix is about. So when I was watching the second movie, I kept trying to listen to conversations to find these quotes that were like, that are going to make me going to go, wow, mind blown, you know, like that's a universal truth. And I remember just like listening throughout this entire movie and trying to pick up things. And I was like, I don't know what these people are saying. I'm really trying hard to, to, to, to, to, you know, like, you know, why do my eyes hurt?

1:21:28Because they never used them. I was looking for that, like that quote. And the entire movie was like, the only, I remember it's, it's, it's, it's. Wait, wait, Tim, are you, are you saying that amazing quotes like, because I believe our survival depends on more than how many ships we have. Is it good enough for you? But. Or cooperation is not a requisite for. I love how, I love how Cornel West, the philosopher got that quote, which is like, you have to think about that for a minute before realizing, oh yeah. What was it? It was a comprehension, not a prerequisite of cooperation. Yeah. Like, why is it a mouthful? That is true. But the funny thing is that, um, the scene before this, uh, when, uh, when, uh, Niobe asks Morpheus in front of her newborn for a dance, he says, that's the only thing that

1:22:12I understood from this movie. And that's a quote I remembered. And I was like, that's deep. And I was listening to that quote. Fucking stupid. Some things change. Oh yes. Some things don't change. And I'm like, that's, that's true. That is true. But it's like. I was watching with Phil and I was thinking, I was thinking, thank you, Niobe for just saying the vaguest thing ever. Standing the obvious. This is so vague. By the way, speaking of which, Niobe, Jada Pinkett Smith, she actually auditioned for Trinity. Really? In the first film. That's crazy. So she ended up being in the Matrix movies. Yeah, there you go. That's kind of cool. Will Smith was going to be. But that's the thing I wanted to say, vagary. There's a lot of vague, um, lines in this film. And again, it just, it feels like you could make these lines not trying to be smart and

1:22:56it'd be great. It'd be fine. You don't have to make them. Some trees grow, some trees don't. There's a universe of truth for there. You're right there. Some trees don't. Some trees don't. Well, no, it'd be. Okay. So anyway, the Nebuchadnezzar is now. For indoor and outdoor use only. The Nebuchadnezzar is leaving Zion now. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Um, because they got a call from the Oracle finally. Ain't that something? That's great. That's crazy. Oh, yeah. Um. So Nio has to go meet Phil. She finally managed. And he gets handed a mini disc. Yes. A weird ass. A weird one. I didn't understand that, but okay. It doesn't matter. And he's off to the races. He's off to the race. Morpheus is just ready. He's ready.

1:23:36Oh, Morpheus. He's sitting in a home. Yeah, he's sitting in the... He's sleeping. He's waiting. Before they go, there's a strange man trying to kill Nio if he went down and looked for your popcorn. If he tried to pick up... Yeah, he's cutting himself a little bit because, of course... I have to say again, that was a perfect example of just like, if you didn't know... I had no idea. You'd be like, what is this? Who's this? Murderer. Is there like an anti-Morpheus faction? Evidently. That was amazing. I think that would have been an actually better plot idea. Anti-Morpheus faction, Zealots or something. That could be good. Yeah, yeah. And then Spoon Boy gives a present from...

1:24:17Oh, no. This is so bad. This is... Oh, okay. Tell us about this because I thought it was cute. I didn't think it was bad either. It makes no sense. So, I thought the orphans, the special children in the Oracle, they were hooked into the Matrix. They were programs. I don't know what the hell they were, but apparently they're inside Zion for some reason now. And Neo, I mean, sorry, the kid is in contact with them. And Spoon Boy in the Zion made a fake spoon to give to Neo. Why? I don't know. I don't know. I think there's nothing to do with the why. It was just sort of like a little bit of... It's just like a... It's like a reference, but it doesn't add anything to it, honestly. I don't know. Well, this is an exception. I think I didn't really mind. It wasn't a big deal. Especially because it was tiny.

1:24:58It was very short. It was very brief. It's just, to me, it doesn't make sense because... It's just a wink-wink moment to you? Yeah. No, no, no. But the Spoon Boy doesn't understand that that quote meant something to Neo. He wasn't in the elevator when Neo said, there is no spoon. I guess maybe they talked and he's like, that's really... He's like, oh man, you told me that. Yeah. Then I remembered that when I was in the elevator. I was like, there is no spoon. And I was holding my girlfriend. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it's not the spoon it means. Anyway. Wow, you jumped up and you killed those agents. What happens is... But I really wish we could have seen Rowan with the Spoon Boy. Yeah.

1:25:38But I guess his mom won't let him shave his hair. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. So Neo ends up making it to Chinatown, basically. Yeah. Oh, the fight. And yeah, listen. Also, we had a great scene where Locke had to say, why did you allow Nebuchadnezzar to leave? Oh, with the light man? Yeah. I mean, we get this. We didn't need this. No, not really. Yeah. He gets... So Neo gets into Chinatown. He opens a door and he sees an Asian man sitting in the... What is that pose called? Like a tea house. Like a Buddha pose. Yeah, like a Buddha pose. I'll tell you what it says in the script because I'm reading it at the same time while we're talking. And Phil, while you're looking for that, you made a good point, I thought, which was that

1:26:21this... So far in the film, the changes in sequences are a little bit jarring, like you mentioned. And I gotta agree with that. They do feel kind of jarring. It's like, oh, there's a sequence here, sequence here. Yep. Too much introduction of new elements that you're not familiar with. Yes, yes. Like, ooh, now we're in Chinatown. Now are there new characters here? It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, like, no time to process this stuff. There's a lot of stuff. They are very necessary that I found out now, finally understand the plot of these characters. It's just the way they're like put in those movies. It's very... And, you know, he's like, oh, are you the one? No, he didn't ask anything, did he? He just started battling. What do you got? Well, look, look, look. Here's an interesting thing. We read the script.

1:27:01There's a little script. There's a little scene that was not used in the film. In a Nebuchadnezzar, Neo lies back, Trinity plugs him in, and she goes, be careful. And they kiss. And Neo closes his eyes and gets into the Matrix. And it's an interesting description here in the Chinatown one, where the streets are jammed with tourists and merchants peddling the ultimate simulacra, spiritual and historic symbols, once powerful images now reduced to plastic laminated bric-a-brac. Neo glides down a back alley to rear entrance of a tea house. And then he sees Seraph, right? Who is sitting, cross-legged, bathed in the rays of the afternoon light, sipping tea. His name is Seraph. And also in the code world, Neo sees his true form, sitting Buddha-like in the surrounding swirl of code. Oh, yeah.

1:27:41Being a pure liquid light contained by a web of Matrix code that is written in the negative, or rather with the absence of light. And this is another example of a scene where I thought, oh, okay, we have to see another fight again and more fighting. Jackie Chan fighting. He's like, I'm here to see the Oracle. Okay, let this, I must apologize. For what? For this. And then they fight. The soundtrack? The score? Great. I love it. Because it has didgeridoes and it has all kinds of... But again, it's a scene where I'm sorry and I'm not really trying to be a negative answer, a critical guy. I'm just saying that I was watching the movie very openly and honestly. And I just felt like we had to see another fight and I'm getting tired of fights.

1:28:23But Tim, this is going to sound interesting. What do you guys think? Okay, well, I'm going to tell you right now. First of all, the way he's executed. I love the fights. I like the choreography and stuff. Nothing wrong about that. But as something that needs to progress the plot, it doesn't make any sense. Just because, why are they fighting? And the whole point here was supposed to show, and I can even read it from the script if you want, where it's supposed to be shown that Seraph, the guy, is supposed to be equal in strength to Neo. That was exactly what I was going to say. It's supposed to show a challenge. And this is the point of entry. I know this because of the behind the scenes.

1:29:03How do you know this, Tim? Because it makes sense. I was watching this because the ends with the most powerful villain, Smith, Neo overcomes him with ease. Now we have to build up tension. They have to build up who is going to be the antagonist, like who can challenge Neo. So you're introducing these characters. First, you have the upgrade agents. So there's another challenge for them. And now you're introducing these programs that we didn't even know what kind of programs, like Oracle, whatever. But it poses a challenge to the one who we've seen being like, unlimited power. You know what I mean? So it's exactly showing that. Because if you have a character who has godlike powers, you're never feeling the tension.

1:29:46You're never feeling like he's in danger. And then you're ultimately incredibly bored of the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. Because your main character can't get hurt. So that's why you have to introduce these characters who pose a threat to him. So that is the point of that entire scene. I know. But the way they executed it, it would have been more fun if he was like, I must apologize for this. And then he just punches Neo. Neo just flies out of the window. Yeah. He gets hit or something. And you see maybe some dust on him. Yeah. And he's like, what? Because he says, because he says like, you don't know someone until you fight them. And now I know. And it's like, there's nothing about that scene that tells you as a viewer what he found out. Exactly. It's just like, oh, they were, because to me, I was mentioning to Phil, I was saying that fight sequence wasn't much different from Neo fighting the agents. So you go, there's another fight.

1:30:29Yeah. So they could, they should have done something more spectacular there. 100%. Something that tells the audience that this guy is confirmed that he's the Neo or, or the other way around that this guy kicks Neo's ass. So Neo's a bit worried. Yeah. Because otherwise I think this is very nonchalant. And it really does feel like that. And that's the problem I think with this is that, you know, we have Neo here, like you said, he's the most powerful guy. Yeah. And he just, yeah. This is what it says. Seraph attacks, his hands and feet striking seemingly all at once, but Neo parries each of them. The speed of the blows increases. The attacks encounters in perfect sync as though each knows exactly what the other's going to do before they do it. See, I didn't pick up on that at all.

1:31:09No. Yep. Nope. Not at all. Zero. Yeah. Which is too bad. Did not translate. It could have worked. It really could have worked. But yeah. Neo gets in and another vagary, another vagary. They go through the portals, right? The hallway. Oh yeah. The new introduction. A new introduction. A new concept, which is the portal doors. And he spews. Sorry. Oh, the technological mumbo jumbo. No, no, no. No. Okay. Sure. Do you want to talk about that? I don't know what to say. No, it's just funny. It's like using a common knowledge of computer programs. And this is what everyone loves in the news. There's a back door to a program.

1:31:52And this is what is explained. Every scene has a back door. Yeah, that was mumbo jumbo. I didn't understand it, to be honest. But it's just general programming. The code is hidden in the tumblers. He's talking about tumblers. Yeah, one position opens a lot. Another position opens one of these doors. Yeah. Can you read for me the vagary he says when Neo says, what do you do or who are you? These are back doors, aren't they? Programmer access. Not that part. Are you a programmer? And he asks him about who he is. You a programmer? Are you a programmer? Yeah. And he goes? No. And then I protect that which matters most.

1:32:32See, more vagaries. I'm just saying that like... Well, in this case, it says Neo goes, what's that? And then he opens the door. Okay. Well, I look. I don't know. I'm just getting a feel here. I'm not like trying to hyper-criticize this stuff. I completely understand. I get the flavor again. Like, okay, you know, it's a nice line and stuff. But it's again, very general. You know, it's like, ooh, this is supposed to be like a special thing. I protect which matters most. Ooh. You know? Yeah. I guess it's more like... It's trying. You know, to build up the intrigue. Yes. But it doesn't have to necessarily... Who are these people? Peppel. So I'm very glad to see Gloria Foster back in the second film. Yep. The Oracle from the first movie.

1:33:12Always great. I love the Oracle. I think she, honestly, even in this scene, is even better in some senses how she plays the character. It's really great. Really great. And she's... I just... I love her character-wise. I love that little bit they have when he's like, you know, suit yourself, sit down. And he goes, I felt like sitting. It's just... It's a little bit of that good old... That'd be nice. You know, fuck you Neo attitude that it brings up. That's... That's pretty nice. A little bit more realistic Neo. Exactly. But I have to say, guys, that during this entire conversation, I had an epiphany. Oh, let's hear. I finally understand some things. I finally understand some concepts of this. I'm ready. And things that I tried once we started this podcast.

1:33:54I tried to take my computer and programming knowledge, which I didn't have at the time when I was watching these things, and try to apply to the movie world logic of this world. And it never fit. I was always confused at why agents act the way they do. Why programs do certain things. Because programs have a certain sort of parameters, and they follow, and there's maybe a glitch, and then they stop. But that's it. But they never go on and create something new. You know, go on a path that's never been written for them, as far as his programs go. But then she talks about this whole thing about, you know, Smith, he's, like, she's not talking about Smith, but she's talking about instances, some programs.

1:34:40She reveals that she's a program, and CERV is a program. And then sometimes these programs, when they do weird stuff they're not supposed to do, they have a choice, you know, when they're supposed to exit the matrix. They could be deleted, or they could come back. And I always just thought, like, that's stupid. Why would a program think of that? That's not part of our parameters. Why would you build a program that has a choice like that? But then I thought about it more, and I realized it makes sense if you don't think of them as programs, as they keep calling them, as you think of them as AI, as actual intelligence. And in this instance, I would like to point out that intelligence doesn't mean that it's super smart.

1:35:21Like, let's say, I would say intelligence, for me in this case, means that it's actually aware of itself. So I would say a computer that acts exactly like a dog is an AI to me. It's just like a super smart program, but it's a program that is aware of itself. So they have a matrix, this super complicated system that you could not possibly, even a robot, program. It would take years. You have to have intelligence to sort of govern and create this world, right? So that's why you create these instances, these AIs that are aware of themselves, and they work as a program, but they're also aware of themselves. So they can become in that situation where they can do make that choice that's very, you know, like, programmer-like, program-like to think about themselves.

1:36:11Because they need to be that complex to be able to do the jobs they have to do. So when they're facing exit, they do have to make the choice, because that's like a side effect of the AI creating these other AIs. They didn't think about it. Given, which is to think and to govern. Yeah, and that's why you have this, because even the stuff that the architect talks about, finally it all made sense to me. When I started to think from this point of view, and people like the Mervinjin and people like Seraph and the Oracle, I think they're all these AIs that had a certain job, and once something went wrong and they couldn't fulfill their jobs, they needed to be deleted, they did choose, and they still hide, and the key makers as well, they still hide in this world, the matrix.

1:36:57Yeah, I think that's the idea. And I finally understood, like, okay, this makes sense. Right, because I think you said at the beginning, you were thinking of it more as like a purely computer program sense, but really what they're talking about is these are artificial agents. These agents are aware of themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the whole point. I mean, that's the whole thing, like the Oracle, like you said, all these characters, they're all like people, basically. They have sapience. Okay, go on. Sentience, I think is the word. Sorry, that took a little bit longer to get out of my words. Sapience is why you're not only self-aware, but you can... Oh, cool. Never mind. You told me this, you idiot. Okay, so... Okay, what?

1:37:38Okay, so let's get this. Oh, but before I let you guys talk about this also, remember that cookie theory, no pun intended, that we read that, you know, when she gives him a cookie, she gives him a program. You know that? I was watching this, she gives him a piece of candy again, and I was like, well, maybe this guy's on to something. He's like, no. As soon as she starts pulling out food, like, wait a second, I know. It's a red pill. Yep, that's hilarious. Hot tamale. All right, I'll shut up for now. Okay, so... Who wants to talk? So basically, um, the whole point here is, um, she's talking about vampires, werewolves, or aliens, because those are all just programs that are doing something they're not supposed to be doing, right?

1:38:27Yep. Yep. I, I, I found that a little bit weird. I mean, I'm always, I always understood that, but I always thought it was a little strange, because how is that much different than, for instance, the real world, um, where we have fiction and things and people making up vampires and stuff? Yep. I, it's just a little bit of like, I don't know, it's weird. It's sort of like an example, right? Just an example, like, they're doing things they're not supposed to be doing that aren't necessarily, that aren't part of the natural world, is basically what you're saying. Yeah, I guess it's like explaining why, in a perfect system like the Matrix, you would have these things that don't belong there. Right. You know? Right. It's not a human thing, it's actually the system messing up. Okay, but in this case, he's like... So they have some weighty discussions.

1:39:08Yes. And he's just talking about how he's, why he's seeing this stuff in the future. And then she's like, well, I mean, you have the gift of foresight. And this is, this is nonsense to me, I hate this. You have the gift of foresight, so you're making, you made the decision, so now you have to understand it. And he's like, no. I was like, what are you talking about? Well, that's the thing, I don't know why he didn't want to, why didn't he agree with that? Because she was just saying that he made the choice, but now he has to understand what that choice means and like what the consequences are to that choice and so on. Why doesn't Neil go, no, I can't? Philosophy question. Does she mean you made the choice as in you made a choice inside you and that's gonna, that's gonna, you know, you're never gonna choose something else?

1:39:51Or is she talking about a sort of metaphysical fate kind of thinking that we all at one point as a singularity made a choice in our life? It's just like a, like a, like an echo of that. I actually don't know. I think she's talking about two things. She's talking about what we talked about before with like, um, fate and stuff. But I think she's also talking about just in a practical sense, like Neo made a choice, like he would choose Trinity, right? To save her. Mm-hmm. No? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know, that's what I'm asking you guys. No, no, no, I just took it as a practical thing. No, no, no, yeah. Like for me it's a, yeah, it's a practical, logical thing where he's just like, we all know what Neo's gonna choose.

1:40:32Yeah, and she's just saying that she's saying that Neo can't yet tell what the, in my opinion, what the consequences will be of making that choice. So like he's sacrificing. On either side. Not, not, not on, not for Trinity's sake. Also for the other's sake that's happening. That's how I took it. And then she's like, well, let's, let's understand the choice, guys. I'm interested in one thing in the future. But then they were talking about. The only way we can get to it is together. Yeah, that's true. That's why I'm asking because, you know, she is the Oracle and she could predict the future. So I'm thinking of like a sort of logical sense. How could she predict the future unless she believes in this sort of thing that, you know, the choice is like a pre-made thing. Well, it doesn't make a lot of sense at all to me, the future prediction stuff, because how does that work? That's impossible. I don't know what they're... Oh, we talked about this, yeah, before.

1:41:13Whatever, he just talked about the Neo, with Neo finding out, these dreams. Like, that makes, to me, little sense. Yeah, that even like completely ruins our whole idea of like she being a super smart program that can, you know, predict things. Because the Matrix, I mean, the whole universe of the Matrix, no one has powers to see into the future. Well, it's probably pre-programming a situation that will... Oh, like a possibility. Yeah. Oh, that makes sense then. Who knows? Who knows? Whatever. All right. Whatever. But here, I got some juice for you from the script. Ooh, juice and juice. Here's some juice. Okay. So he's like, I can't do that. I won't. And she goes, you have to. Why? Because you're the one. And he's getting tired of that answer. And then Neo goes, now Neo says this.

1:41:55What about the first one? And then Oracle goes... Ooh. And Oracle goes, what about him? Did he reach the source? And she goes, yes. Oh, okay, yeah. And she goes, yes. And why didn't he end the war? He did what he was here to do. His path is not your path, Neo. Your path, I'm afraid, is much harder. Why? Because of the choices you've made. Classic Neo. Because of the choices you've made. He sighs. No way out. What if I can't? What happens if I fail? Then Zion will fall. There you go. So, what's another interesting thing here is that this film is... You can only best understand it if you understand it.

1:42:37Clearly, this is a cycle in the machine-human relationship. This is the one that Morpheus doesn't know about. Yes, and that there were previous ones. And the one is simply a function to continue the cycle. And what's crazy is that, you know, again, if you watch this movie even a couple of times, it takes a bit of work to figure that out on your own. Well, look, after 15 years, I finally figured it out. Yeah, honestly. But I'm saying it really changes the perspective of the movie because, you know, I had to look up other resources. You read about it.

1:43:18You, you know, watch the making ofs and stuff. It's weird because it's not clear at all, you know. It's a very specific backstory that is hard to read into just on your own. And she's being very vague. I mean, the Oracle could have just told her, told him everything. Oh, wow. Things like, using the words like the source and... I mean, all this stuff, it gets confirmed at the end of the movie with the talk with the architect. It gives you the other side of it, the practical side of it. So at that point, you're supposed to put two and two together. But it's really hard for certain circumstances. Anyway, she's like, she has to go, apparently. Seraph is being impatient.

1:43:58He needs to go potty. Smith is coming. I have to go. He has to go buy ramen. We are not liked, but we, us. Yeah. So, Smith comes in. There's nice little ravens and crows. Yeah, that's right. I totally forget. I always do that again. Like, I was thinking like, oh, it's the end of that scene. Yay. But then Smith comes in. Yeah. And he's like, dude, did you get my package? Yeah. Good. And also, surprised. That's so funny. He's like, surprised to see me. And Neo goes, no. No. Really? Yeah. Forgot. Yeah. I don't get that. Do you? I don't either. No, I think it's just like, to be Neo, to be cool. I don't know. Maybe he's Forsythe. You know, he dreamt of Smith as well. So, he just makes it back.

1:44:38The bread maker. Well, yeah. So, he's just saying that he got resurrected. He went to the source, but he didn't want to get deleted. So, he came back. There he is. And Link says he's not reading like an agent. Yeah. And, yeah. There we go. You know, I remember that whole, for some reason, it's so easy to remember Agent Smith's lines that are so wordy. You know? Never mind. I guess. I don't fully understand. I don't know. What happened? Some part of you, it's a fight. It's a fight. It's a fight. It's something overwritten or copied. It's just like a vague expression. Like, what have you? Or like, but wasn't he like deleted?

1:45:18So, that's like, this is the explanation. Something happened. I don't know what it is. Yeah. But now I'm here. The good news is I'm here. You know? We can't explain it. It doesn't matter how. And he says that there's a purpose why he's here. Okay. I have a question for you guys. Since we're talking mostly plot now, this is not related to plot. I guess this movie loves to talk about purpose. Like, one of the themes of this movie is purpose and meaning. But to be honest, in the movie, you know, they do talk about that, but I don't really necessarily feel the theme working so much. What do you guys think? The first time, again, this viewing is a lot of first times for me. And the first time that resonated with me.

1:45:59And I understood it, especially when I looked at, because when he was part of the system, he had objective. He had, even though he was, let's say, AI, you know, intelligent, he still had the purpose, you know, to whatever the agents were doing, like destroy all non, you know, hooked up humans. Right. And as soon as he was hooked out of the system, there wasn't any more, you know, direction. And he was this purposeless person. And I think this is what people in general have trouble with. And that's why people join cults, people join religions, people join anything that gives them a higher purpose than, you know, what you come to realize is naturally.

1:46:40It's just like to procreate, to live and to procreate, you know. Yeah. And a lot of people, that depresses them. And it kind of, you lose motivation and try for life. Well, of course, you need purpose in your life. Because then you're like, well, you know, after a while, like, this is it. And he kind of lost that because he didn't have it. That's why a lot of people like to follow people who have, you know, like greater opinions and they make up some kind of story. And then they tell them. And it's so much easier to follow that person and to believe them than to be by yourself and to, you know, be comfortable with the reality and make up your own future. And I think this is what he was struggling as well for the first time as AI, that maybe other AIs, you know, that were different, didn't have such a problem.

1:47:23But he's such a, like, before he was so goal oriented. Now he's like completely lost. He doesn't know what to do. Yeah. Yeah. So he's trying to find his whole purpose. Mm-hmm. And they fight. Exactly. That's how you solve it. You fight. More fights again. I liked it. I liked the fight. The first part of the fight is not bad. There's not a lot of wobbly, juicy CGI people. It's actually, it's pretty straightforward. It's looking very realistic. True. Until the stick of destiny comes in and it goes off. And then they all just turn into the rubbery CGI men. Yeah. And it just goes, wow. Well, I mean, they were really proud of that at the time because they thought they were

1:48:03doing like upping their bullet-time, you know? Well, that's the thing I wanted to mention. When I saw this, I was amazed, you know? Really? I didn't see the CGI. Nope. Nope. I was just like, how did he do this? Are you serious? Yeah. No. Yes. Because for me, like, again... I remember even in the cinema, we were like, oh, it's CG people. For me, the bullet-time doesn't make much sense if it's CG. It really doesn't. It's not bullet-time to me. It's purposeless. It's not real. I'm serious. I'm dead serious. I don't know. I mean, that's like, it's the bullet-time stuff. It's like, I guess, but if you look at it from like a craft perspective. From a what? Like a movie making craft perspective. Yeah. I mean, like... You can do anything in CGI. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. It opens up, you can do anything.

1:48:44So bullet-time really just lost its effect. Now it's just, yeah, spinning camera, CG guy. CG. Any notes fill on the CG fight? The stick of destiny? You mentioned a good point. The whole fight isn't purely CG. There's a lot of... Yeah, a lot of great choreography with... And you can also see... It starts off pretty realistic, yeah. You can also see... You can also see lots of doubles that weren't face replaced. That's true. But that's cool because no one notices that. I like the escalation of it. I think it went a little long. But it did go a little long. It is inevitable. What do you think of the music? It was like a drum kit. Yeah, Juno Reactor. A tomato gets squished as well.

1:49:27Oh yeah, it's pretty like... It reminds me of anime when it goes all balls out on music. It's just like the emotions are not... They go all over the place. It's quite a little bit jazzy at times. So that's nice. The agents are really annoying in this movie. They're super annoying. What are they trying to do? I don't even know. Are they just trying to do the copy thing on him? You mean agents or do you mean Smiths? I'm talking about agents. No, no, no. Oh, the agents. Not Smith. The other agents. The other agents. He just uses to copy himself onto. Yeah, they're so annoying. You. Yes. Me. The anomaly. Me. I mean, they're just firing the orders, you know. Yeah. And I like that the... We've talked about it here. But they think the key maker is a thing that needs to be deleted as well.

1:50:12Yeah, they're deleting everything. Wanting to delete everything. Yeah. So he fights him with his fist. Fights him with a stick. Yep. Great. Any cool moves or anything you want to put out? I like it when they pile up on him. He's like, it is inevitable. Also in the script, when I read it right now, he says, it's inevitable. And puts his finger in his ear. Oh, what? And then starts putting the black goop into him. Oh. I did not notice that at all. No, no, no, no. In the script. Not in the movie. Oh, okay, okay. In the movie, they took it out. Thankfully. Totally. And then what I liked is the explosion. When all those myths fly away. There's some good moments in the battle. But everybody really hates this for some reason.

1:50:53Really? I think it's just CGI. And there's like, nostalgia critic and stuff like that. There's people who've been criticizing this forever and saying this is the lamest thing in the world. I think a lot of people use sweeping statements, which is not fair. Like, it's crap. Yeah. It's like, well, come on. Watch the whole thing. I like the 90 degree, you know, top down view when he's just smacking the myths away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like flying little bugs from the group. That's great. With the stick or not? It's with a stick. I didn't like that. And he's like hitting them with the stick and they fly. I don't like that. That's my least favorite shot is the 90 degree one with the stick. And he's like doing these. No, no, no. The 90 degree one from like the top. No, no, no. Not the one. The one he's like on the stick and he's kicking them. No, that's not that one. Honk, honk.

1:51:34I forgot. It's funny. Yeah, and then he flies away. Yeah, he finds an opportunity to fly away. And then he talks to the Queen of Zion. Queen of Zion? Yes. One of the council members looks like the Queen. She does? No, no, no. The Queen does. No, the Queen. The Queen of Zion. We're in the council now. Yeah. But before that, Agent Neo. Agent Neo. Neo says that he feels like... He feels like dying when he gets enveloped in the goop. Right. He's like, I'm back in that hallway. So here's an interesting description. I still didn't know he was talking about the hallway.

1:52:14Yeah, because it's... Oh, okay. Because he said that hallway. What hallway? I thought the hallway... The hallway. Well, I thought it was the hallway with all the back doors. That's what I thought. The what? The hallway with the back doors. What's that? The hallway that he went to with Seraph at the white hallway. But he wasn't dying there. Yeah, when are we dying there? But he said just... I thought I put those sentences... Interesting. ...separate. Like I thought... You combined them yourself. Yeah, when I was smaller and all this time. Oh, you're smaller. Not now. Okay. When I was smaller, I always thought it was... I felt like I was back in the hallway. And I thought, what other hallway but the white one that we saw? Because he said that hallway. That hallway of combining things. Because he was referencing something recent. That hallway. Right. You should have been... I felt like I was back in the hallway where I died.

1:52:55Okay. So, in the council, there's a different description of who the council members are. Okay. Large circular room with windows near the top of Zion. 12-membered council sits behind a curved table. The council is mostly women. And only Haman, I mean the white guy, is Podborn. So, he's the only one with the... You know. The things. And one of the women is... Okay. And one of the women is breastfeeding. Huh. Love it. That's the count. And Locke is talking about the machines are tunneling. The machines.

1:53:36Okay. So, Locke goes that the machines are tunneling and we need all the rope. All the rope we need. But she said, but Neo has all the rope. We need all the ships. And he's like... We need all the ships to be on Zion for the defense. Yeah. And this is the weird thing. I was watching this scene and I kind of also couldn't believe with Phil that the council is going a little nuts. They're totally okay with using not just one ship to find the Nebuchadnezzar, but two. Yeah. It's kind of a lot. Yeah. Because they wanted to get the Nebuchadnezzar because the Nebuchadnezzar didn't respond back to them. I know. I'm saying that's a lot. I'm just telling to the audience. Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And also, this is the first time I understand his plan. Yeah. I was completely oblivious of this whole plan that they're going through some tunnels and

1:54:21that they're going to attack them there. Never in my mind have I noticed this at all. Can you repeat this again? This is completely... Whose plan is this? This is new information. Locke has a plan that he's going to attack the ships, the machines. They're going through some tunnels and there's like a gap there. They're going to send all the ships and attack them there. I actually didn't pick up on that either. Interesting. Completely missed me. Like the whole twist at the end that the ships are gone. I was never aware of that. Nope. Nothing. Oh, I see. So that's what the machines were targeting the ships, right? No, no, no. They went... The plan was to surprise attack them before they come to the sea. But he never got to do his plan.

1:55:02He did. Then they all died because of Agent Smith. Oh. Am I blowing your mind right now? Agent Smith? We'll talk about it later in the end of the thing. Yeah. Yeah, that says a little bit later. But I was never aware of this whole plan. Right. And why he needed all the ships for me. Well, anyway. I mean, either. Well, anyway, in this scene... So, one second. Sorry, Philip. Sorry, Philip. But if he used the ships, do you think that would have ended... Like, it would have been a really big hit? I guess the machines... No, no, no. He used all the ships except the three that he didn't have. But he was explaining this whole plan. But it wasn't enough for what? No, no, no. It got sucked because of Smith. I will explain that later. Okay, go ahead, Phil. I forgot what I was going to say now. I'm sorry, Philip.

1:55:42What I said, man? The council breastfeeding woman. Yes. No, and I remember, yes. This is the first time that I actually sided with Locke in this case. I was like, guys, stop it. Yeah, you're all being really silly right now. Yeah. But then again, fate came in and Smith destroyed all this shit. Oh, yeah. We forgot to tell... Sorry. We're back. Toast is so good. Yeah, we're back. We're back. We took a break. We forgot to talk about that. When we talked with the Oracle, she tells him to go find the Merovingian. Forgot about that little detail. Yeah. That's where the plot continues. And he needs the key from the key maker.

1:56:24Yeah. That's true. And we were talking about the council. Oh, yeah. Go find the Merovingian because he has the key maker. Another program that's supposed to be deleted, but it's just wandering around. Yeah. So I have a question. When we're talking about these programs and the cycle, the key maker, is he also an exile program? Is he part of the program? He used to be part of the program. But they call him, the agents, when they're like, get the exile or whatever they call him. Because he's supposed to be deleted as well when his function was not working anymore. Maybe he was more functional in the previous Matrix version.

1:57:05But he chose to stay around. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. And I think that's the same case with Oracle and with... They're all like Smith, but before. They're always... They had a function before in the previous version of the Matrix, whatever they were. And once they were not needed anymore, they decided to stay. Hang about. Hide in the Matrix. Right, right, right, right. That's my theory. Okay. Okay. And that's what they do. That's right. Oh, yeah. We forgot to say the council. They're like, we're worried for Morpheus. He's still in the Matrix. We need him back. So, we're going to need two volunteers to go fetch him. One is just some random dude we don't know about.

1:57:45Fetching Morpheus. Hammerhead, whatever. Fetch every 15 minutes. Yeah, the bald guy. Yeah. And then the other, the Niobe being, you know, cheeky. She's like, you know what? I'm going to sacrifice myself to save my old boyfriend. Just, you know, despite my new boyfriend. She's like, yeah. But before that, Bane says, maybe we should volunteer. I love Bane's, like, so pathetic attempt. Attempt is nonchilating. Maybe we should volunteer. And then comes the line. The famous line, Phil. Shut your hole, Bane, before I put you in one. And that's it. The famous line from the boxer slash actor. Yep.

1:58:26Phil attempts with Bane to Morpheus. Shut your hole, Bane. Shut your hole, Bane. Okay. I'll talk about this later, but. And now he's like, oh, and more vagaries. No, no, no, no. More vagaries. I remember Locke telling, telling Jada Pinkett Smith. The new character. He's like, what are you doing? What is this? And he's like, Jason. Oh, yeah. Some things change. Yeah. Some things never change. From the best. She learned the truth from Morpheus. Exactly. And so there's two ships going to go out looking for him, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. As they make their way into a building to look for the Meryl engine.

1:59:07Okay. We're here now. And they go into the elevator. Yep. Turn into Neo Morpheus. Morpheus. A couple of people, a lot of people try to get in the elevator. Morpheus shakes his head. Yeah. No, no, no. No, no, no. The door closes. Matrix business. Whole place is wired at explosives, apparently. Correct. X-ray vision. Neo sees it. And I love Morpheus. What do you see? What do your elf eyes see? Exactly. Look at us. Perfect. I see. Bombs. What's with all the bombs? I don't know. The bombs didn't make much sense, but I guess... Isn't this the same damn building at the end? The whole building is wired with bombs? Oh. Because the building at the end is wired with bombs as well. Everything's bombs.

1:59:47Bombs, bombs, bombs. Is that the same building? I have no clue. Is this the restaurant? And they're going up to... I had no clue, to be honest. I don't know if they're going up or down. Maybe that's what they're going at. Maybe that's the same building. The restaurant is. That's where the Merovingian likes to hang out. Special building, apparently. I don't know. That's what I'm saying. And as they're going to the place, they... French restaurant. Yeah. Maha! The first thing I thought of was like, French. Maha! French wine. French. Excellent. French is California. Right. Maha! Bommazón! Is this the thing? Okay, exactly. This is inspired by the same French excellence.

2:00:27It's a fancy... Maha! It's a fancy restaurant. We see an Indian man being escorted out. That's right. Tim, did you ever know this? Oh, yeah. This is from the second movie. Yes. It's kind of hard not to notice because it's in slow motion. It's like, look at this. But I didn't notice for a long time. Until he's pointed out. Oh, I noticed only this time now. I mean, this time I watched. And then we have the Merovingian. There he is. And they sit down and they're like, we need the key maker. Well, they're so like... They're so stoic. These three characters of ours. They're just like... Dressed up. They get in there. They can't even like... It's almost like they all have like arthritis or something. They don't even move. You know what I mean? They're on official Zion business with our official Zion business clothes.

2:01:10They can't even like just order some tea or something. It's just like, no. No food. No eating. Nothing. No socializing. We're here. We're not taking our glasses off. We're serious. So Merovingian on the table, he goes, here he is at last. Neo. The one himself. Right? And the legendary Morpheus. And of course, Trinity. And he says something in French, but here it's the translated. Ooh, it's here. Oh, it's so beautiful. It causes me to suffer pain. Oh, that's nice. He kisses her hand. Oh. Oh. It's extra bits. And he introduces himself and his wife. Manuka. What's correct? Manuka. Manuka Bluche. Manuka. Manuka Bluche. I have to say that I've realized a funny thing that when I was watching this, I always

2:01:57found her looking older. Like I always thought like she's like, oh, she's like an older, like an older, elegant lady. Right? Watching this, she's like, she looks freaking young. It was like such a big difference to be like, I would see her like someone I would not be attracted to because she's like way too like, you know, old. That kind of thing. And I was just like, that's how, it's so funny how you see the perspective. Well, it's the same thing that we talked about back in the day in our podcast, the show was how you looked at Neo and Morpheus. You think like, wow. Yes. Yes. They're old. And it's like, well, no, pretty young. It's such a different perspective. She's like, she looks so young in this.

2:02:38It's ridiculous. Because I'm an old man now. Yeah. Old man. And he's like, Stephanie is my wife. And the twins are here. The twins are there. And then he gives us talking about cursing in French. Wiping his ass with silk. With silk. And I always wondered what his curse words were. Maybe do they have any translation? No. It's just, you know what it actually says in the script? No. What? He lets loose a string of French expletives. Oh. Well, we'll never know. Hey, anyone listening, if you're French, can you tell us? Oh, I'm Googling it. Let's see. How do you spell Merovingian? Merovingian. With a G. Merovingian. Come on. Let's keep part of the game.

2:03:18I'm going. I'm going. So, basically Morpheus just goes, we need the key maker. No. Well, let me talk to you about this really quick. So, Merovingian launches his speech about causality. Cause and effect. Yes. And choice is an illusion between those in power and those without. Yeah. And I mean, I think he makes some good points. Yes. I like his theory. I like Merovingian. He's cool. Yeah. He's got to figure it out. He's enjoying his exile. Didn't we used to collectively hate him when we were kids? I don't remember. I really don't remember. Like, so annoying. Yeah. Like, for me, it was like, so annoying. He's so annoying. He's stupid. He's obnoxious. Can you give me some summary about what his theory is? I mean, I was listening and I think he made some good points, but I didn't really remember.

2:03:59I mean, he's like, basically he's, he's saying that, you know, whatever theory of, of life and what, you know, how things work is kind of, is, is, there's no point of, it's too complex. It's, you know, down to the basis is, you know, life is about you make an action and then the effects of that happen, you know, like that's, that's how he sees, he sees, like, it's very in control and the more choices and the choices, the more actions you make, the, the more power you have, the kind of that kind of thing, you know, you need to be doing things. He's very, a certain person who's opinionated and he goes for things and that, that's, he doesn't care about what it means or any of that.

2:04:40And he just like, he's very. But he does keep saying the question, why, why, why, why? You don't know the reason. You don't know the why. Oh no, that's what he's saying. He's annoyed that, that he's just like telling them that they're being puppets. You know, he's going on about this thing. Like, why, why are you bothering me? You just came here because the Oracle told you, you don't know what you're doing. Thank you. I really want to talk about this. And that's the, it's so true. Like, honestly, what the, what the Merovingian is talking about, he is so right. Like these three characters are coming up to the Merovingian, right? Presumably a powerful program and they have nothing to say. They have nothing to bargain with. Zero. Nothing to bargain with, nothing to even argue about or make a case.

2:05:21They just sit down there and Morpheus is like so stoic, just going, the key maker. Yes, we're here. Literally, I was surprised. I was shocked. They have nothing to do, nothing to say. And then of course, what is his answer going to be? Of course, I'm not giving you the key maker. It just came up here. Yeah. And I like, he makes a little show of it as well. It's like he, you know, he tries to find out about them. I mean, he obviously, you know, he's the, he's the whatever program of information. So he knows exactly why they came to have no, to just, to, to just stare to pick up the key maker with their stupid moronic way to do it. But he, he entertains their idea for a little bit.

2:06:01He, he gives them a little room to, to explain themselves. But then like, he's confirmed like, this is just a waste of time. So can you also explain to me the woman and the cake? But it's, but it's, but I just have to sit. Yeah. Guys, go. You guys never let me talk. We let you talk, but you're not talking. You barge away in. You don't have to wait. Knock that door down. Okay. Just barge in. Okay. So. That's what we all do. Okay. So when I was a kid, I was like, who is Mervin? Idiot. Terrible. I can't wait to see him die. Can't wait to see Neo just punch him in his face. Morpheus with his swords. Yeah. That's what I thought. So you're just a big fan of the three and the rest of them die, right? Yeah, of course. So the woman, and I wanted to point this out because this is the moment that I, that the

2:06:46cookie theory came in because he is a program just like the Oracle. And here is he giving a prime example of these programs using food as a, as, as, as a sort of like a way to insert code into, into humans. Immediately thought of the cookie and the food that this, like he is influencing humans and their choices by, you know, putting something in them. Like, I think what he does, he wrote a program for that cake. He wrote that cake. She gives the cake and the cake is for an orgasm. And then he goes, and then like, you know, basically it's like, it basically, it maybe

2:07:28doesn't even give an orgasm. It doesn't matter. It makes her, I don't know, lust for men. And then he uses the situation. Aroused. Aroused. But it is, it, it, it made me think of the stupid cookie, cookie theory, you know, that cookie, cookie, that the programs influence humans by offering them food. And then they, I call it, I call it, they change their, they change their, uh, whatever perception. Disposition. Influence them in any way. So, so that was funny. Yeah. Cause basically what he's doing, isn't he just making her want him basically? He's making a situation for himself where he can use it, you know? So, I don't think, I don't think that code makes him like, she, she go like, oh, I need some Mervin Jinn in me. It's more like.

2:08:10Right. Maybe he gives her like, she gets her out and then he goes and you, cause he knows about it. So he goes in the, you know, the bathroom. He's like, I heard you aroused. Let me come with you. Or whatever. It doesn't matter. I don't know what the specifics are at that point. But I'm saying, but basically he's manipulating her through the code to get what he wants. He's a rogue program that is absolutely loving this situation. And I think he knows of the cycle as well. And he says. He does. He's like, I survived the rest of you. I love this character. He's such a opportunist. It's amazing. He is. He's just like chilling out. He doesn't care. He doesn't care about anyone. He just did what he wants. And it's great because it kind of shows you that the character, once these programs are

2:08:57rogue, that what they were before kind of creates an environment of who they're going to be once they're, you know, they're rogue. Like Agent Smith was this creature that hunted people. And once it's free, it's doing that, but in a sort of chaos kind of weird way. He was the guy of information. So he knew about everything. He knew what was going on. He understood everything. So now he's free. He wants to abuse this situation. You know, he's like a smart opportunist kind of way. And I don't think maybe the Seraph, maybe he was a program that was supposed to protect. I don't know, something like that. And now he's just protecting the Oracle. Oracle was whatever, you know, supposed to guide people.

2:09:41Guide people through life or figure out how people communicate or like the human side of things. And that's what she keeps doing now. She's very like, it makes sense that they behave the way. And it makes sense that Miramind behaves the way he did. Well, now the Oracle is taking things into your own hands. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. I like it. And that's what he's doing as well. He's just like loving this. He's loving the reality, you know, and the freedom that he can do whatever you want with his powers, his magical powers. And then Persephone goes, where are you going? We are all victims of causality. I drink too much wine. I'm going to take a piece. Yeah. The piece. The long eye. The piece.

2:10:21And he goes. And then he's like escort these hobos out of the premises. And then for me, I just don't understand. Like when I was a kid, like, why don't they just go? But that wouldn't be to their advantage, would it? Let's surf the area. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. That's what I was thinking of. I think it is. No, like, it is a very childlike thinking and a very Phil-like thinking. But I do agree with the child Phil. It's Jake thinking too when he was a kid. He's Neo. He's more powerful than all this junk. He doesn't know that he's less powerful. He should be still full of himself, right? He'll be like, ah, what are these twins?

2:11:02Let me fight them. Let me fight them. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe he's explosive. They get escorted away and they're in the elevator going down. Know what happened? Happened and it couldn't have happened any other way. See, again, I'm sorry. More vagueness. I'm sorry. Yeah, more vagueness. He's grasping straws at this point. Yeah. And it's, you know, it doesn't hold a candle to the amazing lines in the 1990 script, like, 96 script, like, what have I told you about? What was that one? It was amazing. Cypher, what have I told you about believing in yourself? What was that one? What? It was such a good line from the 90s, 96 script where he tells Cypher, what have I told you

2:11:44about? Yeah. What was it? I don't know what the exact line, but I know what you're thinking of from the script. It's not as good as that stuff, that gold. Nope. And they're going down the elevator and he's like, we're alive. See, again, like the dialogue. Yeah. He's just like, Morpheus is still stuck in this thing. He's still on the hype of me. Haven't I always told you, Cypher, not to let your fear control your life? Thank you, Phil. That's the one. Yep. Yes. Yep. Those are the lines I love. So, and then. What happens? And then they end up, oh, they end up downstairs, right? No, the lady interrupts their elevator shaft. That's correct. The lady. The lady.

2:12:25The wife of Mervinjin. And her dress. That's correct. It looks really hard to walk in. And her balloon dress. Yes. Balloon dress. Balloons. It is. And she's like. Balloon material. I hate that guy. You know, we used to be in love. I'll give you the key maker if you make out with me. Yeah, basically. If you remind me of our love from before. I mean, it makes sense. You know, it's a robot. She could have. But to be honest, it's a bit weird. She could have made any human fall in love with her. I mean, you know. True. But I guess. Yeah. It's a bit strange. But I think she's also just. She's also just in a situation, I think. And she's. What's the one? Yeah. I guess like getting the kiss from the one is. Yeah. Is worthy.

2:13:05And Nia fails. Firstly. And she's like. Terrible. To be honest. I don't think she does it for the kiss. I think she does it just to spite him. Despite her husband. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to spark some kind of thing. She's also getting a kiss too. And the kiss is just a bonus really. She made that up. Like, what am I going to ask? Something stupid. I think you're right. I'm going to make her made out with him. In front of his girlfriend. This will be funny. Exactly. And then Nia follows. What was I mentioning? You mentioned that basically. Let's go ahead and I'll tell you then what you mentioned. Then they succeed. She's like, okay, cool. I'll take you to the key maker. All this stuff. But I meant this funny. Trinity, turn around. Yeah, that was hilarious.

2:13:46We were watching and Nia was like, Nia, before he kisses her, he should be like, Trinity, cover your eyes. Don't look at this. This would be too painful. And then, yeah, Morphe, Emma was saying, Morphe isn't in Trinity just standing there looking. That's the thing. Like, it's, yeah, the acting. Go to the stall. Go to the stall. Have some privacy. You too. And they finally make it into some kind of lounge. And she talks about these programs who are loyal to the Merovingian. And they are old programs from the first Matrix. More role-building. And there's this vampire movie playing in the background. And presumably they have vampires. Yeah, they're vampires. Oh. Because how many people keep silver bullets in their guns? Did you notice? Oh. Okay.

2:14:26How many people... Because, look, the vampire movie's playing there. And she's like, I have silver bullets in my gun. I mean, that's for wearable. How many people keep several bullets in their gun? And I was like, what the fuck does that mean? No, no, no, no. Silver. Silver. Okay. I just... Yeah, there's a new... Most people keep several bullets in their guns. Yeah, that's what they said. Like, what does that mean? Yeah. What, don't people keep only one bullet? Yeah, more vagaries. I mean, it fits with the language of the movie. So, sure, I'll go with it. Yeah, it's true. So, she kills one and she tells the other one, go tell my husband what I did. Okay, so there's more of that whole... The old Matrix is one was like full of horror. So, there were vampires. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he keeps him from that.

2:15:07And you're right. She's doing this to spite him. Go tell him what I did. They finally end up in this grand hall. Yeah, through the kitchen. Yeah, through the kitchen. Oh, did she open a secret door? Yeah. To the grand hall. Yeah, to the castle. No, no, but this is what we learned finally, that it's a castle that we go to. We go from the restaurant, the kitchen restaurant, we go to the Chateau Castle in the mountains. Chateau. And she finally, then we meet the mayor of Ingen again with his posse. No, no, but they get the key maker. Ah, it's true. Oh, yeah, they get the... They get Randall Duke, the key maker, yeah. The key maker. And then again, new introduction, right? I'm Neo. I'm the key maker. I'm the key maker.

2:15:48Yeah. Great. And I was talking to Jacob and I thought, if they're going to make stuff like vampires and everything, to be honest, they could have gone a lot crazier. I think it would have been more fun to have crazy worlds. They showed that they're vampires. Don't be vague about it. Give me some fangs. I was confused. I was watching. Why are all these people dressed like the Matrix people? Why do they have all glasses and cool clothes? Because they're zombies and vampires. Yes. Wait, you blocked out again. Sorry. Hello? They're zombies and vampires. I know, but I'm just saying I was confused because I thought they look like Matrix people. But I'm just saying they could have gone nuts.

2:16:28Like, you know, in the Path of Neo game, in Path of Neo, the video game, Neo actually goes into a bizarro world where things are checkerboarded and there's giant ants that he's fighting. That sounds amazing. Yeah, that's the Path of Neo. And I was thinking they could have easily done something like that because it's a virtual world. And like, you know, they go into Mare Vengeance Castle, but they could have gone into Dracula's castle. I don't know. Whatever. You know what I mean? Okay. It makes sense. But again, it's so vague. Like, first of all, I've never figured out that they're vampires or whatever. But it makes sense because they're much more powerful and they suppose a threat because they're not just, you know. Yeah, they're just not regular. They're vampires. But it's like, show us something. And also, this is the first time that I've figured out the logic behind the geography.

2:17:11That the fight is in the mansion. That's far away. But the guys stay in the kitchen and then they get in the car in that apartment. The building where the restaurant is. So that's a completely different place. Okay. I've never figured that out. It was too confusing. And so when they get to the Chateau, they meet the Merovingian with his posse. And he's like, Persephone, how could you do this? You betrayed me. You betrayed me. And then that thing is great because like, here she's totally just getting back at him for all this stuff. Yeah, it's just like, she wasn't kissing your face, my love. I can tell you what you told me is that, yeah, exactly. She wasn't kissing your face. Phil made a great point that they have been through.

2:17:53They have been through. Chilnips. Chilnips. They have been... Let the man finish. I'll never get to finish my sentence because Phil has talked about his chilnips. I never got the chilnips. Very important to interrupt me with your chilnips. Do you want to mention anything else? No. Okay. I'm telling you what you told me and you can't even listen to that. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And Phil was saying it's a good point that they've been through this cycle so many times with the other ones that they're tired of it. They're done with it. Persephone is messing with this as well. She's stopping the Merovingian from doing his plans. The Merovingian doesn't care. He doesn't want to give him the key maker. Because he's done this five times before.

2:18:33Yeah. So they're just like, they're done with this whole cycle. Yeah. I think that's like, he's not even... No, I wouldn't say that's his part. She is. She's done with this whole marriage thing. And she's like, this is so boring. I think he's more like, this is a noose. Like, let's just get over with this thing. So then for the next hundred years, I can just enjoy myself. Like, this is a burden to him because he knows it has to happen. The Neo, the one has to come and they have to deal with all this nonsense. But he would really like it to end, you know, as quickly and as painfully as possible. And less damage to him and his, whatever his, you know, him enjoying life in the Matrix. Yeah. And so basically he takes his crew and he asks them, he doesn't ask them.

2:19:17They then go and attack Neo. He also says, this is only a game. This is nothing about the game. That's true. That he's talking about the game with the whole cycle or what? Yeah. Yeah. It's a very different perception. And she goes, so is this. Yeah. She has some good burns. Yeah. And then they fire bullets at Neo and he stops them. Yeah. He's like, better than the other ones. Yeah. That was interesting. Better than the other ones. Yeah. You have some skill. So it looks like maybe the other ones had different powers. That's what I was talking about. And I think that's pretty cool. Yeah. That makes the previous ones a different story. It doesn't have to be this action story. Exactly. I think the previous ones, yeah, they had like a very similar kind of approach.

2:19:59That's what the architects talked about later on as well. The difference between the previous ones and Neo and what makes him special. I think it's just very confusing to people to add that layer of, so he is the special one, but there were special ones before, but he's more special. And then you're just like, but why? Why couldn't there just be, you know? You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, to general audience, it just confuses them. He's the special. He's not the special. There are more, you know, it's just too many. What movie is that where you're the special? I forgot. I don't know. I ordered the special. They battle. Randall Duke Kim. I mean, the key maker goes, I cannot go back.

2:20:39Why? Yes. He wants to, doesn't want to be deleted. No, I don't know. Maybe they touch him. I don't know. I cannot go back. He runs away with his key. Anyway, we got the other thing. No more fighting. We have fighting at the Chateau. Yeah. That's a good fighting at Chateau. You'll handle this. This is good fighting. Your swords. Your predecessors had most respect. I wonder what they said. Yeah. Hello, sir. Sir. Sir. Sir Merovingian. Can I have the key maker? Please, sir? Yes. Sir, give me the key maker. I would like some French wine, sir. Amour. Ah. I have much French wine. Yeah, so this guy with his...

2:21:19Curse for me in French. Curse. And now we have... Amour de fromage. Very good. Yeah, now we have Nia with his trench coat and stuff. I'll handle him. I'll handle him. And now they fight, and it's pretty cool. I like that fight. It's a pretty good fight. I agree. Rob Dogen. A lot of stuff going on. Medieval weapons. What? That in the making of, they showed all the statues are actually statues of the Merovingian. Oh, really? Yeah. Lovely. I'm going to go look it up and see if I can spot him. It's him in like different historical... Oh, okay. That's wonderful. That's funny. I love him. He's like, he's so self-obsessed. He is. He loves himself very much. He does. They battle. There's... Neo gets sliced on his hands.

2:21:59You see he's just a man. If it bleeds, we can kill it. That's interesting that he said, you see he's just a man, because the agents also said he's only human. True. They're scared, you know? That's the point, though. I think that's the point of the one, is that in this movie, they do make a point that he is still human, despite his alterations to his abilities. Neo makes a lot of... Does a cool moves and stuff. Uses the force to get some size. Oh, yes, he does. That was a cool new effect. Just like... Yeah. Tim, I'll go beyond. You won't believe this. But in some storyboards for Matrix Reloaded, Neo actually takes the code and makes a Kamehameha. Oh, yeah. I think you mentioned this before. Yeah, there's storyboards of that.

2:22:41Crazy. Matrix Kamehameha. That could be cool. Yeah. I mean, it kind of goes in the revolutions into this nonsense, but yeah. I'm trying to think that... Yeah, so he kills everyone. He kills everyone. Yeah. Except Merovingian. Yeah, he's like, mark my words, boy. I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive you. And he runs away, and Neo's like, I'm gonna run to the door. Yeah, Neo lazily jogs. Yeah, instead of flying Superman. Oh, I missed it. And he looks at the mountains. I love it. Yeah, I start at the mountains. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he realizes that Merovingian went back to the restaurant while he's stuck in this mansion in the middle of nowhere, and he calls Tang, or whatever. Yeah, not Tang. Tang. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Get me an exit.

2:23:22He's like, where am I? You don't believe this. You're in the mountains. So, which is funny, because he says he's in the mountains, and that they are in the city. So, I think that's all there is. There's the city, and it's surrounded by mountains. It's like video games. Maybe, yes. Where you come to a land that's too steep, you can't climb it. Yeah, yeah. So, that's like the world barrier to mountains around the city. I guess so. I mean, I don't know. I guess so. 500 miles. Yeah, it's 500 miles away, though. So, that's cool. It's quite a bit. Tim? Yes. Good to regard. And, meanwhile, Morpheus and... It's a Superman thing. He's going to fly to the city. Yeah, he's going to save Morpheus and Trinity. But, in the meantime, Morpheus and Trinity are fighting the twins.

2:24:02I have to say... Okay, no. Before we get... Wait, wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, they're fighting twins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. I thought we were... Whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, they're fighting twins in the garage. That's true. They're fighting twins in the garage. Morpheus grabs a sword, because he wants to be cool. He wants to be cool. On the way back, he's like, I'll get the sword. And he takes a helmet, too. These twins are confusing creatures. They can turn translucent. No clip. Not evidently. They can heal themselves. Yeah, they can heal themselves, which I didn't understand, because I thought... Because the rules weren't very well laid out to the audience. So, this is my 50th time watching this movie, and now I finally get it. Okay. So, their power is that they can go translucent, and they can recover themselves. And I thought, oh, that means that all the other special guys that Neo just killed

2:24:46can't... They're not going to recover at all. They're not going to... Because, you know, like, in the Matrix, you can... You can... To a certain extent, you can recover. You can... To a certain extent... Because it's all fake. So, I thought the Merovingian can reboot all his guards and get them back. But I guess it's only these guys that don't feel pain when they get shot. Beats me, man. Beats me. Stuff like that. So, they're battling. I assume there would be something from the... One of the, like, the Matrix is when the vampires existed. Like, there's some kind of ghosty... Yeah. Yeah. Like, evil something that he kept on in the payroll. And they're fighting and stuff like that. And Trinity shoots... Trinity shoots... No, Morpheus. Morpheus. Yeah. Shoot him in the arm. His blood.

2:25:27Just like Neo. Yeah. Shoots him in the arm. And then the cross-promotional Cadillac comes in. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The silver Cadillac. And then they run away on the Cadillac. And then there's the whole conversation that you always avoid highways. Thank you. Thank you. Let's talk about this. The freeway. This is the big topic. What is this? Yeah. What is this? What is this? I was asking myself. They're all afraid of freeways or highways, whatever you want to call them. Autobahn. And I'm just so confused. What is so dangerous about these highways? And like Morpheus is... Whatever. Morpheus and Trinity are like, you always told me to stay away from the freeway. What is this? Patrolling agents? And Link's like... Link's like, are you sure about this? The freeway, sir? What the fuck?

2:26:07Never touch the freeway. Well, can someone explain to me what is dangerous about the freeway? I would like the explanation as well. Phil, can you explain this to us? No. I think Phil is not either. I don't know. Dear listener. What's so dangerous about the freeway? Can you please tell us what is dangerous about the freeway? Millions of people travel on the freeways. There's too many cars with people in there who can turn into agents? What's happening? I was hypothesizing when I was watching. I was thinking maybe agents can turn into car drivers. Autobots. Agent car. They can turn into drivers. They can like swervel and crush them and take whatever. They can do that in the city as well, I guess. I'm just confused. Are you trapped on the highway? Anyway, they didn't exit because they're too close to, what would it Morpheus say?

2:26:53That's crazy. They have to take a highway to get to the next exit. That's like insane. This is just like they wanted a highway chase. This is all reasons for that. There's no other, because it's an amazing highway chase. Let's not take away from that. This whole sequence is awesome. But the reason why they're there is absolutely ridiculously funny. Yeah, so the highway chase has a lot of factors. Trinity finds a Ducati motorcycle. Wait, wait. Before that. Oh. Cut away this yawn. First of all, they're being chased by the two twins in their little SUV. They're shooting at them. They're also being chased by a bunch of agents in a cop car.

2:27:38Are you guys there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to find the part where Trinity talks about the freeway being suicide. Here we go. And the thing is that, I love that there's little close quarters action scenes in the car when one of the twins transmorph itself into the car and they're like fighting with knives and things. And it's like, Trinity's arriving and she's also fighting him while Morpheus is fighting. Yeah, that one is just like Morpheus. That's a really unique, cool. He liked it. Yeah, it was fun. It's new. It's like, they're stuck in this place. And they have to fight the creature. That's your favorite song. Well, I get stuck in my head all the time.

2:28:18Yep. And then there's this big... Jacob, you were mentioning how throughout this sequence you were feeling fatigued. I was, I have to say, I mean, you know, I agree that there's cool stuff in the highway sequence, but for me it just felt very stretched and I was just... Yeah, they could have like picked out the best off. Absolutely, man. I mean, because once we get into... Okay, so can we just skip to the point where Trinity gets the motorcycle with the key maker? She's doing cool moves, driving down the highway. An agent... Remember when she jumps off of the truck?

2:28:58The truck? Oh! I like that. Yeah. Oh! Oh! keymaker i keep saying like no one else matters just grab the keymaker and she has to turn around and then she has to go against traffic with her motorcycle which was cool i thought it was cool also they filmed this in alameda california with a big one mile stretch of land i think or half a mile they built a fake highway they built the whole highway they were going to film in ohio or somewhere like that where they're going to be able to get a whole stretch of actual concrete and stuff like that but they would they would never be able to schedule it with the time that they

2:29:43needed to film so they couldn't leave that highway closed so long yeah so they and what i love the behind the scenes when it's like you know all the car all the people sit in the car so there's a bunch of cars and it's like everyone all right start driving that's like 40 cars just driving on the highway so true and what i wanted to say was then we um after Trinity how does Morpheus and the keymaker get up on the truck okay so so so she drives the um the the keymaker on a bike while Morpheus fights an agent on the top of the truck yes okay this is what i want to talk about for a few minutes

2:30:23this is a prime example of what i was saying earlier in the podcast was that this is a sequence that i feel doesn't isn't very necessary and there's quite a few sequences like this where they're fighting it's an okay fight and i think he has the fight but i don't really see how this is that important but jacob it shows how Morpheus has shed his fear of the agents he's not running from them he's fighting yes that's what was going to make the point as well yeah but it doesn't make any difference anyway it doesn't make the difference of the plot it just yeah it gives more depth of Morpheus i do not care come on can't you can't you agree it's long it's too long i'm not scared

2:31:06we're not we're agreeing with you i'm just like we're agreeing with you i know i know we were trying to explain the point that maybe they have in their head i agree too yeah they're probably that's probably what they're thinking and for some reason the agents want to destroy the keymaker yeah yeah and then noby comes in and she catches Morpheus but let's rewind real quick to the part to the part where Morpheus squares off against the twins with the truck with their little pickup truck or car whatever because they had their little van car and Morpheus takes out his like you know uzi he has an uzi but he also has a sword so he's oh right but that's after that's after no it's before before it's before him fighting with the agent oh really oh yeah oh that's right no he

2:31:46yeah yeah she gets away with the bike with the dude no she goes find a boot shit she goes find a motorcycle with the guy while he drives the truck up on the like a like a like an overpass or whatever yeah yeah yeah yeah and then he does this magical move which is which is the samurai move it is good i like it it's so anime i love it so but tim did you notice that that one shot where you know where the truck is you know they they cross paths and Morpheus already did his did his swing and the truck is or the whatever the car is just going past him that shot where you just see two of them did you notice that they actually cut off half of the the overpass oh no no no no no no no i

2:32:32didn't actually cut off half of the overpass so you can see the whole uh part of the road without the uh rail oh i see what you mean i see what you mean yeah so i didn't notice that that's pretty cool if only they did more stuff like that in the movie would have been great yeah more like sort of and then he shoots it with you and blows it blows it up it's magical because yeah no so now you you agree with Morpheus's antics that was good that was good i like this little you know flamboyant he was like showing off like come on Morpheus you know has to show off as well yeah he does great and i love afterwards you just see him coming up on standing on a track with a sword so good just like my i'm

2:33:13arriving yeah totally because you know they cut out that one sequence of Morpheus getting all the good guys out of uh the building in matrix one yeah he comes out of the manhole and then he throws the manhole at uh the lid at one of the agents and there's a police cars and he has to fight them off and yeah so you got a nice time to show you know to conclude the uh action sequence with a Morpheus and the agent um the key maker know what happens yeah yeah oh that's right the the the agents the agents devise a plan oh yeah yeah that's a ram into each other with two trucks and i gotta say i have to say

2:33:54that this is actually a really really really good um i said off andy i think it's great like if there was somehow more of this stuff in in this film i would have really enjoyed that what the crazy agent plan just to like it's crazy i think it's crazy because because what happens is right before they slam into each other um Morpheus is like and you if you're out there i feel a little hope yeah and the slow-mo sequence is great the trucks slam into each other you see the ripple effect yeah and you can metal yeah and both of them are two opposite colors and makes a little yin yang oh i noticed that and you know in the in the meantime Morpheus jumps up with the key maker and the explosion happens it's a great it's a great bullet-time sequence this one even if it's cg it works great yeah spins around Neo flies in grabs them it rolls up in the air i like that and before

2:34:40that we had the cool hitchcock zoom that's true the hitchcock zoom was great flying into the city so i like that a lot that visual element and so they fly away cool and now becomes the sequence that i was still kind of having trouble figuring out what is past what is future what is vision because then you have this like montage of of the key makers explaining things to them and it shows shots we're here now right it shows you visions shows you the past it shows you the future show the present what is happening it shows you like i think it's showing the plans being executed as well and it's just like uh it's it's a it's a very complex sequence i don't think we

2:35:24should even explain the sequence like like what's going on basically not in the detail yeah just like overall basically there's a time limit within the door and they have to switch off the power within that time limit and Niobe tries to do it and does it because she's cool and stuff we don't explain all this i'm saying the key maker is describing their plan what they're supposed to do and we're getting glimpses of what the plan will look like yeah so presumably we're seeing the future and also have like bits when they're like scared like in in the real world Neo and Trinity talking as well like he's afraid and he's asking her not to go because he saw the visions of her dying correct and so he doesn't go and then after the the key maker describes what he has to do and they're like

2:36:06how do you know this because that's what i have to do i have to know these things yeah it gets near the source after that Morpheus takes over Morpheus takes over and brings his big speech he's a very confident man oh yeah he he uses math he's like there's three things need to be done i see three teams this this means faith to me he's like it's not it's not i don't see coincidence i see progress yeah we all have a destiny he goes straight up all the way to like destiny we are our destinies yeah just because of math he starts off you know he starts off very basic and ends with these really big yeah ideas and uh so the plan gets throttled as um wait what happens

2:36:52well they start the plan right oh squiddy squiddy's mess it up take out 27 blocks in order to shut down electricity yeah and they start doing yeah what's my bomb did he say bomb yeah what's funny oh what is that reference to i don't remember that's one of the guys like he said okay bomb bomb did he say bomb and i think that then we begin the don't we begin the um the plans like the actual execution it all is it's all intertwined that's that's why it's a bit confusing but i think because you see of them doing some of the parts but then uh so what happens one of the teams that's supposed to knock out whatever like the backup power is a squiddy attacks their ship and basically kills them

2:37:37before they manage to do it in in the real world so it means in the matrix so and Trinity sees this because she because Neo asks her to stay back because he saw her die so he doesn't want to be the matrix so these she didn't log she we have a we have a little reference to the matrix one she does the whole thing i think they use the same music place and they have a new interface on the ship's computer oh yeah upgrades and uh so she she logs in and then she does she basically attacks this little place with her motorcycle this is the stuff we saw from the beginning of the movie yes exactly she infiltrates the place comes in to finish the hacking process yes remember how they died with the with the most uh with the most what was it like incapable crew yeah yeah the one with the

2:38:25the the where they didn't do enough maintenance and the guy dropped off from the bridge yeah oh yeah yeah that was again pointless like what was the point of pointing that out and then not showing it like what what they would save himself from the machine because the bridge was okay like just have the machines killed him don't add this element of the bridge who cares about the bridge who knows the bridge was rusty we don't even know who these people are i thought they were part of logos they could be part of the other i don't know they were part of one of the ships the point is that they failed they didn't finish the hacking process Trinity comes in and she only has five minutes to do all this stuff and she starts hacking oh man she's hacking hacking hacking she again she's like she's so determined anything without Neo about Neo she's like it's five minutes i can blow up the whole city

2:39:10whatever she says yeah it's just like pure like Neo i must do this for you and then it goes uh you know hacking you wish to proceed y or n and she pressed enter rebel exactly that wouldn't work though yeah well Trinity she has she knows the ways she wrote a program in the background in order to write in order to enter instead of why that's how much of a hacker she is yeah and then and then this link is like the agents are coming in you know watch out and this is of course then she leaves gonna leave the building and this is of course the beginning of Neo's premonition yeah which is so we at the elevator she's fighting the agent bad times really bad times very bad but in the meantime

2:39:53yeah Neo managed just to get into the hall of the truths yeah guess who's there how did he get there i don't know how did he get there how did he does he have a key maker who has keys i think he also had his own key maker how did he get there never explained yeah he made his own all kinds of key maker but apparently he gets there as well so the hall is now populated by a bunch of agent spits yeah and the key maker runs away i cannot go back again runs away like a little yeah and i love that the end of this sequence i don't know what happens to Morpheus but turns out in the end he's fine yeah he totally bails on them no no no no oh no wait

2:40:37shit i messed up sorry they all run away sorry they all run away but the key maker gets shot on the correct correct not in the face but basically Agent Smith is just messing around and he's he's messing up they're trying to mess up their plans but he fails he's a nuisance exactly a nuisance perfect word no point whatsoever they get in a special room key maker is dying poor man he got shot multiple times yep and he's like Morpheus that door will take you home this you know which door Neo Neo Neo spends like the next 12 hours i figured out this one uh not this one opens the door where smith is again god damn it shit shit and yeah he doesn't make it i mean in that one version but then we're

2:41:22back and um he finds the door right finds the door and the door is lights up this is it's amazing yeah and then this is now the the moment of truth yeah you see the galaxy he goes into the door of light oh and what do you think the audience is expecting to see i don't know the mainframe like it's like it's like a reality like a like a like a psychedelic kind of that's what i expect like a psychedelic really station up inside the computer because everyone's talking about he's going to the main frame the source so i would anticipate it like remember when the Animatrix with the with the monkey no wait the the not the monkey the the last episode uh no i guess something like that

2:42:06some kind of crazy visual psychedelic stuff yeah yeah yeah i actually had no clue but what happens is we end up in a room with multiple television screens old school television screens surrounding Neo and he's standing across from a man in a chair with a beard a white man a man colonel sanders and a gray colonel sanders spins around and this is the famous architect conversation which confused millions of people millions of people including me of course i finally understand me too why i also understand and i understand is because the funny thing is i thought he was being a very high level

2:42:47philosophical i thought his ideas are too big no i thought it would no yeah but what i found out big ideas but also vocabulary but that's what i wanted to say right now is that is that that then then i never noticed the vocabulary but what i noticed now is that he uses these archaic expressions and all sorts of like sophisticated vocabulary that as a child i didn't understand 50 of those words me neither but in my mind i just thought he's speaking too fancy i i didn't the vocabulary never clicked to me that i didn't understand actually what the words are you were just i just thought that concept crazy yeah yeah high concept stuff and i was funny like well i still understand i understand like 90 of what he's there is but i was able to piece

2:43:29together what he was saying it started to finally make sense yeah so yeah as we all know this is what sean connery was asked to play is it true yeah okay he was asked to play the architect i'm the architect because he didn't understand it i created the matrix so this conversation is pivotal in the matrix reloaded this is basically what what do you want to say philip but instead it's a helmet bakitis nice what that's his name helmut bakitis oh the actor okay i thought like yeah he's he's from germany no way well it's now poland but uh okay like i said this is the pivotal moment in the matrix

2:44:12reloaded this is really he's australian though okay cool uh this is really what the matrix reloaded yeah it's really the entire movie is building up to this point because this answers all our questions i mean it's supposed to it questions all our answers correct it's designed to do that um and if you watch the matrix loaded for 30 times you'll finally get it because great because the wachowskis just had to put all this complicated because the wachowskis look i think my opinion they were really trying hard to be very clever in this but the thing is that in my opinion this is my opinion that uh when you're creating something right you know the ins and outs of what you're doing you know everything uh all the details but you know your job is as a

2:44:59creator is to make sure that the audience understands yeah at least the main ones you know the ones that are supposed to drive the plot site stuff sure you know keep it vague yeah yeah but you need to keep that in consideration and i maybe feel like the wachowskis went a little too far without considering really like what would the viewer think even just like an average viewer would the average viewer know what's going on here or even just you know a more intelligent viewer yeah a sophisticated viewer would they know and it it's tough it's tough because it's a lot of stuff like we got so much stuff introduced in this movie in terms of plot and characters and now we have this giant conversation which explains a lot of stuff and it's not very um it's clear if you you know obviously understand

2:45:45all the vocabulary but it's it's it's worded in a way where you really have to focus and pay a lot of attention oh i see yeah yeah oh okay so and i have to say that it is important in this situation because i don't mind movies that are vague i don't mind movies that i don't understand and you just kind of watch it for for the experience and it kind of piece your uh piece in your head what it's supposed to mean or what the actual but this movie is one of those movies but the the thing the thing is that there was the first is a sequel it's it's building up on something that was really even though it was concept really really uh out there for most people for average people but um they understood it by the end of the movie and yet and you're following up on that and people have the same expectation of

2:46:27trying to understand the movie and then when they can't it kind of gives you know a different effect if this was the first movie and and this is how it is then then it's fine you know like that's what kind of movie it is you know it's it's what it is it's a movie that you need to piece yourself together and that's the expectation but if you know you're building up on something that's easily comprehensible then yeah it kind of feels weird you know so the main points that the architects makes is that he clarifies that Neo is simply the sixth no actually he had a really good interesting backstory about the matrix and he was saying how he's the designer of the matrix and he talked about what Agent Smith was talking about a long time ago where he could design the

2:47:12perfect world matrix yeah which was rejected on a subconscious level right yeah um does he talk about that yeah he said he designed a perfect matrix except this the Neo did the anomaly no that he couldn't figure out this is like the glitch he can't figure out well that's that's what i understood from what he was saying no no the first matrix yes you mentioned read it philip thank you read the script is that a buzz is that a buzz pleasing together trying to try to figure it out or was i'm doing sean connery because he was supposed to okay go for it the first matrix i designed was quite naturally perfect it was a work of art flawless sublime a triumph equaled only by its monumental

2:47:55failure that's the one ever ability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being thus i redesigned it i based it on your history to accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature however i was again frustrated by failure okay let's just really comment on that so he's mentioning the first matrix he built is the one the agent is talking about which is perfect but was rejected by people because he wasn't taking consideration that in his opinion people have an inherent flaw which is that we we can't accept a perfect world we need or like he mentioned okay so that's what he's saying with that history which is

2:48:36you know devastation war all these negative things that we accept as reality because of those things okay yeah and so he so he redesigned it and to be more like our original world go ahead go on okay continue reading i have since realized that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind perhaps mindless bound by the parameters of perfection thus the answer was stumbled upon by another an intuitive program so here he's praising now we're two programs down yeah so now here sorry two two matrixes down right so here he's praising himself saying that his mind is amazing because he's a robot he's saying that he probably needs to think like a lesser mind uh one that is not bound by

2:49:22the boundaries of perfection perfection because he loves himself the boundaries of perfection go on thus the answer was stumbled upon by another an intuitive program initially created to analyze certain aspects of the human psyche if i am the father of the matrix she would undoubtedly be its mother and then you goes the oracle and he goes please yeah just remember that he goes please why because later on we'll tell you in the next episode as i was saying she's episode yeah revolutions oh yeah now you guys quieted down i thought you lost your mind and thought like yeah me too she stumbled upon a

2:50:07solution whereby nearly 99 of all death subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice even if they were only aware of the choice at a time at a near conscious unconscious level okay so stop there so what's happening is that he realized oh i can't do this on my own because i clearly am not perfectly fit to understand human minds and what they want and what they don't want so he brought in the oracle and the oracle i don't think that's what he's saying i think they were both there all the time it was stumbled on by less lesser program i think what he's saying is that they were both there but she figured out after the two things he couldn't figure out what was wrong with it but she figured out thank you yeah yeah you're right yeah yeah so she figured out because she was more

2:50:50attuned to yeah how humans think she was studying the humans and seeing the effect that the matrix has on them and so that then then he made a new um version which he said well this answer functioned was obviously no it's finished this is the one i didn't comment yet oh yeah yeah we need to explain what what did they create i'm truly sorry no no it's okay it's okay it's okay then he said the new version we need to comment was accepted by 99 percent of the because they were given a choice to accept it or not yeah even at a subconscious level so unconscious level which means that 99 of the people choose to accept this well this is the thing he's basically saying that these 99 of the people

2:51:33are okay living in a virtual reality because they believe it's reality yeah basically that it's a subconscious level and that the reality is not perfect nor is it horrible it's somewhere in between and then a subconscious level they know this could be not true no but it's like a false choice except there's one percent of people who who have this urge to wake up from it yes exactly so the 99 percent of people believe it as reality they accept it even at an unconscious level but like you said the one percent uh is more prone to rejecting it therefore wanting to wake up cool so what's the next part while this answer function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise

2:52:18contradictory systemic anomaly that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself ergo those that refuse the program while a minority if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster okay this was a little tough and you goes this is about Zion but i don't the only thing i understand is why would it cost why would it cause a devastation to the program because they they would start freeing people no no i think that's i think it would like they're supposed to have all the people to like it's a system that works like the 90 whatever percent but then you have to kind of deal like like the other systems that didn't work for everyone right the previous systems didn't work

2:53:00for all of them right but now they had a system that worked almost everyone except this one part so they were like they were like happy with it like you know what we can't get it to work hundred percent so we'll get this whatever so we'll deal with nine percent and then we'll deal with it yeah the one percent but the one percent will try to get more people which is basically this is the whole yeah there's all people free getting free Zion all that stuff and if they don't if they don't keep it in check that it will more than one percent yeah it'll threaten yeah oh that's what i mean it'll threaten literally the their survival yeah yes okay okay because that's the the job they're assigned these you know the architect is and this is this is this is this is his job it's crazy if

2:53:40you think about it a lot of work they could have easily written this in layman's terms it would have been easier i know keep going yeah you are here because Zion is about to be destroyed it's very living inhabitant terminated in its entire existence eradicated that's easy and he goes bullshit bullshit oh yeah yeah yeah guys in the back yeah they love their stuff denial is the most predictable of all human responses but rest assured this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it and we've become exceedingly efficient at it so my question here is don't you think that machines could have thought of a different or no i guess not i guess if like you said like this was the best

2:54:22thing they could come up with yeah it's like a cycle that they're okay with you know right like it's just it's annoying but it works yeah it works for a long time and then like last 20 years it kind of escalates or what what last one year it escalates into this whole nonsense they have to deal with it and then they go again you know and they have 100 years of peace and like just chilling out huh that's crazy so yeah that's what i got from it right yeah because it's been what 600 years right who knows yeah Morpheus is talking about 100 years we fought these machines they only know their 100 years yeah they only know their 100 years oh you mean like oh yeah like 100 years times six okay yeah the function of the one is to now return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination

2:55:06of the code you carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals select from the matrix 23 individuals 16 male 7 16 female 7 male got lost there to rebuild giant okay now now now of this sentence kind of i'm not certain what the beginning the beginning part is confusing because you read that again the beginning part yeah what's it insemination so the main so basically the function of the one is to now return to the source okay he's there okay what does that mean he's there this is going to allow a temporary dissemination of the code that Neo carries oh okay what does dissemination mean like just letting go of the

2:55:50code yeah that he carries losing the code so okay so he loses the whatever his code is inside him his one code i guess reinserting the prime program after which you'll be required to select from the matrix reinserting the prime program what is that i don't know maybe what the hell does that mean maybe that means reinserting the programming of the one oh like for the next one for the next Neo to pick it up apparently he can't copy it so literally transfer it yeah over to them we'll use beast i guess that could make sense here stuff this up your butt yeah like he puts it in there and then it waits until it like gets released from the one so then he releases the code of the one and then after which he will have to then choose yeah 17 females 16 females 16 females seven male and go you you you you you you

2:56:38yeah Morpheus Trinity uh my friend matrix no no from the matrix oh from the matrix joy oh joy my buddy joy joy that's perfect uh anyone else i don't know sure can you imagine him looking like Neo not Neo tom thomas tommy boy where have you been yeah so listen uh things got a lot yeah complicated recently and um do you want to do you want to start build a world yeah make a build a world but it's funny you go like he's like oh there's one girl in the office she looked kind of hot um um he's like thinking like the guy who made the ramen who's good the noodles you can't think of anyone he's just like yeah it's gonna be

2:57:23like carl pilkens we need a chef as well um yeah i was like is that enough you just name four people that should be enough we need 16 people oh it can't be anybody from the matrix right it can't be anybody of his friends no what if matrix do you if they die do you keep them can i have dead people too so then so then spoon boy yes spoon boy yeah but he's freed apparently oh yeah it's no longer uh so mr reinhardt mr yeah he runs a tight business uh mr reinhardt sir uh that'd be amazing that'd be amazing but no you're like saying it like he has to go and tell him i i would think like he chooses apparently clicks buttons i i owe him a cell phone

2:58:08so i'll ask one more post man the fedex boy yeah no no no no the flat or post that guy oh yeah yeah oh yeah the guy he chooses that guy and uh yeah cool so that's the choice right he has to pick those people and they will rebuild Zion and the cycle will be started again yes 100 years okay keep going failure to comply with this process will result in the cataclysmic system crash crash how does he say crash no man killing everyone connected to the matrix which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race why why would this cause yeah

2:58:52that's also i think this is the first time ever watching this movie where i went you know what why do you believe this guy there's no reason to believe him like i mean you he could be making half of the stuff up yeah especially that part of the time of destruction yeah the Zion stuff makes sense he's attacking them you know that's totally fine they could annihilate everyone in Zion he could be telling the truth and this happened before but everyone dying in the matrix why why would they want to die in the matrix because apparently Neo's code that he carries needs to be reloaded i know but i'm saying like this guy could be making that up i think they mentioned that revolutions oh yeah yeah probably yeah like what this could this would solve his problem get rid of Neo and his anomaly

2:59:34code and then you rest with 99 people who yeah just don't reject it there's just you solve the problem get rid of those guys i don't know i really don't know madness well i think the point is that they're saying that when the whole reason is that i guess the machines know that the humans will inevitably rebel because of the one percent so they're basically just giving giving them a head start saying like okay go you know start a new Zion we know you'll and they can also maybe know where they are and stuff like that or or or it's just they they have to go through the cycle they know they have to go through it and it's the only way to get to always like decrease it and it is a false no one's gonna die in the matrix he's just making bullshit up to yeah i think so force because he

3:00:18said like the previous neos always cared about the humanity not they didn't know where to love one person so they always would choose to save humanity even though it meant you know yeah because Neo is the only different one in this case because he loves Trinity and not humanity yeah yeah he doesn't care he sees he sees things on the internet he knows what humanity yeah and so so Neo goes you won't let that happen you can't you need human beings to survive and the architect goes there are levels of survival that we are prepared to accept however the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility of the death of every human being in this world

3:00:59he's bluffing yeah tactics machine tactics yes maybe he's not even the real architect he's just a talking robot uh it is interesting reading your reactions your five predecessors were by design what am i doing now uh based on a similar predication a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound statement that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of the species facilitating the function of the one while the others experienced this in a very general way your experience is far more specific vis-a-vis rave david brent

3:01:40vis-a-vis that's that's always whatever that expression is i always think of david brent so i so i understand what he says last that we were talking about that you know he's in love with the Trinity instead of the world what the hell is he talking about before i thought i finally understood this conversation but his whole the what what did he say first what what Neo is created on a predication yeah i'll tell you i'll tell you that the other ones were designed to have a general affinity for mankind okay so there they were designed by design they were supposed to want to save the human race and have a sort of love for the human race but Neo broke that cycle by having Trinity as his um you know

3:02:28okay um having only affinity for Trinity that that's what i understand but what does it mean they were designed i don't know i mean like i think i think they were their circumstances within the program yeah were deliberately to yeah let the person to not have a love interest basically so imagine and the program sucked messed up they chose Neo by mistake no because Neo's path was different it happened to be different because they couldn't control they couldn't control Trinity they couldn't control Morpheus they couldn't go in there and say Trinity don't fall in love the oracle don't do this they couldn't do that yeah the oracle was the one okay so oracle messed it all up yeah oracle messed it up yeah on purpose so imagine if if Trinity wasn't in the picture

3:03:08chances are Neo that yeah yeah the human yeah joy i love joy so that's the whole point they're saying that the circumstances would dictate the one to love everyone in this case the circumstances dictated Trinity Trinity Neo to love Trinity i see okay okay sense i think that's the case i mean yeah i guess yeah that makes sense that makes sense that's what she's explaining she entered the matrix to save your life at the course of her own and you goes no and then no and then i did not and the arcana goes which brings us at last to the fun moment of truth wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed is both beginning and end

3:03:51that confused me a lot i'm still confused by that one he's poetic he's just being poetic is my opinion i don't even know what those words i think he just means that beginning and end is like you're beginning to rebuild Zion and you're going to end the cycle i guess so he just stayed in the obvious i think he's just like come on let's go down with it yeah and then he just goes okay there are two doors the door on your right will take you to the source and the salvation of Zion the door to your left leads back to the matrix to her and to the end of your species as you adequately as you as you adequately put the problem is choice he looks at the doors and he goes but we already know what you're

3:04:35going to do don't we already i can see the chain reaction the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason an emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth she's going to die she's going to die and there's nothing you can do to stop it this is more this is the same thing love is you know conquering all again no that's wrong he's saying the opposite he's saying that he's saying to Neo he's saying i'm a robot and because i'm a robot i'm stupid and i don't understand love uh i think that

3:05:16love makes you not be rational oh no no that's not what i was saying wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong yeah but as far as the movie as far as the movie is concerned it's saying you know love changes everything yes dude we're gonna get into that with revolutions um but here's the thing when he says he says she's gonna die and there's nothing you can do to stop it he's being like i'm telling you i mean he's trying to push him to go to the other door yeah yeah because you're not gonna be able to stop it Neo you're not gonna be able to stop it but the funny thing is that the opposite thing happens because it feels like he's he's like he's actually showing off inadvertently pushing him to go save jenny despite all the odds because Neo that's his character he's always been the middle finger guy so anytime anything you tell him even he didn't even listen to Morpheus exactly

3:06:01he's not gonna leave this this bearded old man well you know by the way thanks for pointing that out in the complete score for the matrix reloaded the the title for this the score the track title for this is called doddering old fool lovely so uh he so jenny architect chuckles and goes hope it is a quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness otherwise you're saying robots are the best you humor the dumb i hate you robots humans drool

3:06:41basically he puts a cap on basically make the matrix great again that's hilarious perfect sad sad go go go go die with the other humans you selfish hopeless so Neo just goes if i were you i'll give you the finger no if i if i were you i hope that we wouldn't meet again and he goes we won't so let's clear up the stupid doors things honestly i hate this this is the stupidest thing in my opinion the doors because it's so jacob that's the whole point the whole point i know but listen he's also bluffing because he's saying that if Neo goes through either the door it doesn't make a difference

3:07:25in this sense because well it actually does because because Neo does save Zion and everyone in his matrix save Trinity and the situation stays the same the machines will come attack Zion but theoretically Zion could win who knows we don't know yeah no but but he's he's he's not saying it like that he's saying Zion's gonna die yeah i know but he's making assumptions he's making assumptions but the architect is saying but he's presenting it as truth he's presenting it as truth to Neo well yeah i know but i'm saying benito's have to believe him that's true but like you know but the architect is saying that if you pick this door Zion is going to die but at least you get to reboot the matrix in the other door Zion is going to die but so is the matrix and all the humans i think he's lying yeah that's that we we all

3:08:08agree with with that i'm just saying that you know from Neo's perspective like how much we can see it as audience but can he see it Neo like through the to the you know this guy's got a lot many many tvs machines rule a lot of tvs i mean pretty cool and he also has a picture too he showed videos of eternity dying yeah so i mean exactly if he knows that and he did it in wonderful cinematic yeah shots yeah it's great lighting on that so i mean maybe he's telling the truth okay so anyway Trinity gets shot with Trinity yeah so can you guys tell me this so we did it we explained to everybody exactly i think we did a good job i think we're right so if you if if he went to the door with the Zion

3:08:54yeah and the chickens and stuff yeah i always imagine this starting zions like here's your people oh yeah starter pack starter pack is chickens some chicken feed some carrots some old wool to make clothes out of acorns to plant some trees that's what i always think too i think there's like some kind of computer kind of starter pack it's like it's like minecraft it's like here is a chest like here's like a little screen so you can figure out how computers work and stuff yeah and there you go guys there's a satchel of gold i don't know oh no a miniature matrix kit and then they pat them on the head bye-bye send them off bye-bye and drop them off in the middle of

3:09:39the of the real world oh a little book about the history like like like uh you know notes uh yeah yeah no no the one's prophecy guide yeah yeah oh yeah it's a little chick tract where you where the new one when Neo has to talk about the prophecy of him coming back and then it tells you exactly what you need to know what happens to the one then yeah i think he goes to Zion yeah he goes to Zion he's he's the father oh he he's the father the the founding father of that generation of zionists okay that's what happened right so if you went to the right door trying to die starter pack pick six uh males wait so would Zion be destroyed then like they would destroy Zion this machines

3:10:23would destroy Zion and everyone would die in Zion everyone dying yeah they would clean it up but he doesn't know that though maybe they would rebel and do it this time it's like the the matrix is like uh put them over no no we can't put them to like the three matrixes ago that's where Zion was they're gonna find all the old stuff it's gonna be horrible don't let's go new we dug here no this is the Zion hole last time what was that is that is that plot of land empty there's so much yeah put him there put him there so yeah so basically he goes there and he he goes and saves Trinity and i think the flying is pretty cool in this sequence oh when he's like got cars behind him yeah he's all cool i like that he's yeah and Trinity obviously goes we saw this a million times of her falling from

3:11:04from the building yeah and uh Trinity he was going so fast that he would probably break all the bones in Trinity's body i think i think the force of his impact is even stronger than the bullet i think so it's like she explodes basically why is your arms moving they feel like jelly Trinity where's the half of your body Trinity Trinity yeah yeah so anyway then he takes her up on a roof she's fine by the way she's fine don't worry except for the bullet and uh the bullet and uh the bullet's in there she's sad she's like i have to go in the matrix and he's like i know she dies and he's like the book oh no no no no oh no yeah he no clips and he looks and apparently it's really painful

3:11:49yeah apparently it's painful and guys how does that work to be honest guys this this i still don't know to this day what's going on here with the no clip i have no clue i don't know what it's ridiculous like i guess he has the power i guess he has the power to alter well actually this makes sense the bullet's okay because you can alter certain things in the matrix manipulate the matrix that's fine the bullet makes sense the coming back to life makes no sense i'm sorry so so anyway she dies in the matrix he does basically what he did to himself i think he does to her like like he he effect like what he whatever how he started his body when he give it he just like knows how to do it now so he just like does it to her because it's virtual because it's virtual yeah uh her brain is re-tricked into being

3:12:31alive again maybe that's it okay it makes sense and then it's love and stuff and then music is beautiful the Trinity Neo theme and then they're even i guess this makes us even yeah so that's all well and good and then they're back of the ship back in the ship right at the milk barn this is oh i love this scene yeah because Morpheus's dreams get to be this is where Morpheus this is Morpheus's worst day in his life yeah he is it truly is so number one neil explains things vaguely because he's being annoying yeah that's what i don't like i don't know i don't think he knows even himself did he's too confused by the heart Morpheus like who told you

3:13:14about this this lie of the prophecy and he's like it doesn't matter what kind of an answer is that yeah who could it have been it doesn't matter and there's fine okay but i don't believe him i don't believe anyone i can't believe but you said it yourself how could the one be real if the our minds aren't real that's not what he said our minds are real he said how could the one be the one if the war isn't over yeah and then we're if you're like no okay first of all Morpheus who said the war would you over if i went to the source that is true who said that uh i don't know rumors oracle rumors rumors on the street rumor on the street no in the chat chat boxes yeah yeah

3:13:55Morpheus was too blind to to to think of anything it was just like he just everything made sense to him like anything that's happening around him this is right i feel it's good i feel it guys i feel it yeah i feel it this is great and so his dreams i have the one his beliefs are crushed and completely crushed because i think he knows Neo's right but just want to admit it yeah it did it takes some time i think he knew for a while ever since Neo was the one and then afterwards nothing happened oh i think the seat of doubt was there except this is like the the one that like you know the opens the damn nail yeah yeah and uh to make matters worse squiddies are coming yeah yeah you have ball bombs yeah they have little balls they have little ball bombs yeah Neo can sense the

3:14:38bombs it's a bomb we have to get out they leave and then boom boom boom but do you like how the squiddies kind of do the little flippy flips sure the flippy flip is a bit funny it's like a sport thing yeah just with your machine you can't just like fling it that's fine but it's because it's a guided little alien it's not it's not like a ball we didn't mention that the squiddies look so much better now man so oh so much better like compared to the first one it's they still have those little arms but they're but they look really good in this one they're not too shiny now they're like they look like actual material glows like from the lights and stuff which is great um they blow up the Nebuchadnezzar yeah it's sad it blows even even even even more you know insult to injury about that believes

3:15:24crushed now ship crushed yeah and then he starts he's like i've dreamed a dream now the dream has gone from me and Neo goes yep isn't that from the man is dead on the side yeah it's like shut up let me have this shut up you're supposed to be the one look at you you're telling me all these things can't even kill squiddies yeah and then the squiddies are the squiddies are even going to go and even come in and attack them after the oh yeah yeah we have to try to leave yeah and then comes now comes the moment this is the moment where all the fans had their theories really but wait the confusion moment i remember this i was in the cinema yeah honestly you know i was like yes i was i was happy because there's some kind of uh like a hook for me yeah i don't want to make a parallel

3:16:08parallel to the first matrix but this is this did remind me of like we said it goes up to 11 in the matrix this is a little moment here yeah as well where it's like oh you think it's over but then something's different don don don Neo stops the squiddies yeah because he says i can real world because he says i can feel them yeah i think that was kind of interesting it's definitely i remember when i told you about the story at the beginning of this episode of us watching it i remember us walking for about a couple hours around town after that like just being confused like what does that mean yeah i was also like this changes everything because is it is it inside another program is this another simulation is he is he the one because now we just had our dreams crushed he's not the one it's all just

3:16:53big you know it's just a big for show thing we mean the next second uh mama and then next show the next moment you know it sparks up again does he have powers what is this it was it was it was too much to my brain too much yeah i i really didn't know what to think i just remember in the theaters i was like i was like okay if this this changes everything basically and i don't know did you ask your dad maybe or something i don't remember maybe but philip i don't remember but yeah you know my in my opinion my kid mind uh what do you guys think i thought it was i thought he has the powers outside of us in the real world yeah that's what i thought but how would you explain it like just transcendence does he just has powers he's like yeah like magic like supernatural mm-hmm

3:17:36yeah i was like cool something is real i kept trying to explain it because it to me it validated then the first movie i was like okay yeah yeah i was like it makes sense because no okay it was all fake and stuff and just in the matrix how they got us for a bit yeah but it's all it's all real back on track which would be an okay way to look at it i mean like i like if it wasn't like for the third film yeah but the biggest thing i think that many people wanted was the matrix within a matrix i think that's the lamest thing in the world to be honest i think it's so boring that's the first thing that you know pops into your head it's boring but everybody was talking about how that would be much better and much more complex and awesome and good yeah great what's the reveal but there's another matrix oh we're still in a simulation we're still in a simulation

3:18:17hmm we must but it's a fun teaser to put to people because like oh no sure yeah but tim don't you agree that the we're still in a simulation i mean at post uh inception yeah you know good about maybe back in the day inception i think that there's not much you can do with that idea like what do you do like i just watch watch a rick and morty episode it's goddamn hilarious which one for what season it's not the simulation one it's when when he creates those tiny humans to run the electricity yes and then the tiny humans created a letter of fact there's a civilization there's that one's funny but that one's good but this is hilarious this is not the focus of the i like that one that's a

3:18:57good middle fingers i haven't seen it i can't comment i have to watch it um so yeah so yeah he stops the squid squiddy's midair they get destroyed and he collapses he faints and then and then he Morpheus or no link comes in and goes what is it and train just goes i don't know yeah again again i don't know what happened tell them tell Morpheus the poor guy would be so happy to hear you keep you keep him in his sadness yeah you you've known him for so long yeah and Trinity in the script says uh he said he could feel them but other than that i don't know oh that's good but not just it's a little something just say he stopped squiddies with his mind yeah in the real world

3:19:41Morpheus Morpheus oh he was so happy i knew it i knew it it's just it's just you know it's the machine the machines were were were were tainting his mind were clouding his mind yes we never go back to the matrix ever again no we're gonna use Neo to defend Zion and so now Neo's back in not back in he's on a ship on the on the hammer the hammer comes in yeah the hammer comes in just out out of now we can explain to jacob okay yeah yeah explain to me as well um but also before we say that the hammer it was supposed to be called the majorner the mjolnir oh but they thought that people

3:20:22wouldn't uh pronounce that well so they just kept it there you go and then the freaking mcu comes out everyone and their moms knows how to pronounce mjolnir never know so what's the thing you want to explain to me so then the the commander of the hammer explaining to them the negative man his name is mr hammer negative ned mr mr hammer explains what uh general captain whatever the hell is named lockhart i don't know what's his name lock tifa lock lock lock lock lock lock what he was explaining to the council is that they were saying that there's this point of as they're drilling down there's this big pipe cavity where they can go where go with their ships charge a big emp account

3:21:08account account and do you have an emp account i have and uh and basically destroy them all and then like annihilate them right to stop the counter-attack as they're drilling down so what would they do like blast them with the mp yeah like they're they're all stuck in this big cavern and they just surround them and blast a big amp and stop them sorry with the drilling right yeah so you don't have to fight them inside Zion that would be awesome so and and then all the ships go there but he explains that before they could get into the final position the emp was charged too early and the range wasn't good enough so basically it just alarmed all the machines and then the machines came and slaughtered all of them

3:21:49and and and they're asking ships all the ships and they're asking like who like but uh it was it it was an accident that you know the system malfunction like we don't know but you know we're gonna find out because there was one survivor when we when we came to see the aftermath we found one survivor and it's smith's human body well okay before you reveal it which you just revealed i was so confused well you know what this this would have been a perfect time to cut off some of that action scene restavaganza with the with the car chase and actually had the scene play out in the movie yeah you mean like not just like an afterthought at the end because honestly in the cinema this was

3:22:32so confusing it's so confusing Neo and then it pans up and then it goes who was that who was that guy is that the guy with the the zonk yeah you didn't get to see actually yeah i'll tell you what my initial reaction was yeah i know yours yeah because you know it goes from Neo who's right side up to smith who's on the other side who's upside down yeah i thought is that hugo weaving with a beard and i thought it's so like i thought i thought they found like a human Agent Smith like who's there yeah yeah yeah and unconscious i mean that's the thing man if you if you like you said tim if you got you put your popcorn down on the floor and you grab the popcorn you missed that two seconds of when smith

3:23:14takes it takes over that guy's body tough luck you're gonna be going what and that was it that just ends it goes and then it says to be concluded to be exactly weird feeling in the cinema it was like such a stinger after watching the movie it's such a weird like but wait i don't know anything now yeah it's like i'm not much wiser and then and then it's okay ready to get some machines here yeah i don't know what to say what playing live today it's rage against the machine it was so jarring the rage against the machine playing now it was like i was thinking about things and all of a sudden out of context because the machine comes in the funky song and that's the matrix reloaded matrix reloaded we did it wow we did it crew i can't three and a

3:23:59a half hours i'm so sorry people yeah that's how we talk we apologize longer than the film but yeah hopefully the hopefully you're hopefully you get your money's worth yeah i hope you get your emp accounts for your buck yeah yeah load up your emp accounts be mighty useful yeah definitely yeah i remember when we left through the whole movie though yes yes we did i remember when we left the theater okay and i said i was okay but it's just too many slow motion effects too much cg too much slow motion for no reason right at that's a critical and me i was thinking what what happened who was that man

3:24:41oh by the way tim you wouldn't know this but if you see tim if you but if you actually stayed through the credits in the theater you would get a trailer for real revolutions okay i did not know that well i didn't until i really just skimmed through the dvd and i'm like wait what they really just what is this yeah they revealed too much on a channel revolution yeah so what do you think when you so yeah let's do concluding thoughts who wants to go first what uh tim tim what um what are the concluding thoughts when i saw it first or concluding thoughts now everything today today um um it's hard to judge the movie because i think my opinion of it didn't never change it's still like

3:25:25it's good ideas but it's way under cooked yes but it definitely what we talked about is that i finally understood most of it yep as you see i thought i understood everything as we were going into the podcast but talking to you guys i realized that i've missed some things and i have uh not not understood a few things and now understand it so so which is good it doesn't make the movie better sadly it makes it more frustrating because i like well if they've done it better i could have understood maybe yep a long time ago um i mean it's like a stinger ending i'm i'm i don't remember revolutions at all so i have no idea what's gonna happen and another thing i want to mention watching this movie now i agree with everything you said but another thing is that um it is interesting now

3:26:09watching it um a fresh so to speak when you have all this knowledge about the previous one stuff because we haven't seen it for a long time yeah really long time so it does change the perspective of the movie a little bit because again it's not anymore shrouded in a mystery like it was back in the day yeah this was a mysterious movie yeah it was like a like a well i mean another thing that i want to point out is that um that the first maybe year or whatever until i saw revolutions i didn't hate this movie so much i think revolutions just like took this movie and put it i think when it came out it was it was held as like

3:26:52matrix and this is like a good you know sequel i don't understand it but it's a good sequel right and it's it's a good companion only when revolutions came out and there was not much like resolution in it that that it it went from the companion from from the first one it moved to the companion of the second one to the group of the movies we don't watch you know what i mean yeah um so it reminded me that i actually did watch this movie a lot and then there's there's action sequences and lines that i was fond of until you know i got familiar with the rest the other movie and then i kind of got lumped into this other section that we do not open yeah the the movie itself i feel like what their goals were were very uh bold because they wanted to subvert the expectations of everybody

3:27:36who loved the matrix um but they they kind of failed because it wasn't understandable enough um and uh i mean i wouldn't say it was a complete failure but i think that it was it really didn't hit the mark they were going for and it really feels like i think half-baked is really the best way you can explain this yeah and it's even it's not it's not even just like it's almost there it's not almost there yeah it's like it's like it's just starting to go to go somewhere yeah but i remember uh the the rooster teeth guys because you know they were big they weren't so like when it came out they're like oh no i don't know what this movie then they saw they loved it completely and then they

3:28:19were talking about they were so excited about the sequel i think bernie waited in a lot oh gus and oh some some of the guys from the rooster teeth uh community they waited like a whole night in line for for the movie ticket to see the movie and then they saw it was like what the hell is this shit yeah i never bothered to watch the second movie the third movie and honestly but they wait overnight for the for the movie there's an amazing internet photo of like i love that photo that's one of my favorite ones it's like there's just a bunch of guys and it says the matrix and then the next picture is a bunch of guys uh sitting on chairs and just going yeah cheering and then being like super happy and stuff and then there's another it says the matrix reloaded yeah then the next one

3:29:03says the matrix reloaded and it's the same guys just sitting in chairs just not even being amused right and then it says matrix revolutions it's just empty chairs yeah yep that's too bad that's too bad too bad i forget much about matrix all i can think of is matrix revolution is the beginning with the club and then the middle we'll talk about it next time okay i don't remember anything i remember nothing nothing i remember nothing well thank you guys well i think we really don't have anything else to say but we would like to hear what you have to say about the matrix reloaded what did you think about it uh do you think it's a good movie do you think it's not a great movie do you think that it are you satisfied with it are you not do you like it as a continuation to the matrix do you think

3:29:47it feels like a matrix film answer all these questions i think it subverted expectations i tried to do that but i think that melliger solid 2 did a better job go play melliger solid 2 yes it's amazing it's very similar to matrix reloaded in the matrix that is true the themes so anyway write in guys and tell us what you think and girls and tell us what you think um about see when i say guys i just mean both girls i know i know it's it's yeah it's a controversial guys and gals it's a controversial topic and uh let us know but that is our bonus episode of the matrix reloaded oh i can't believe we did it i hope we did okay it was a big task i think we

3:30:30didn't expect how big it was going to be no not at all i think we were thinking like hour hour 30 and here we are here we are at the end but hopefully ready for the end it was but it wasn't like our force awakens one so true so that means success yes great success on all parts congratulations to everyone we all get big long black coats well boys i think we're done all right man see you later see you friday this revolution will be podcastized

3:31:12uh how do we start this welcome to the how do we start the matrix reloaded is now no the matrix you said it a bonus podcast yeah