Matrix Resurrections First Impressions Spoiler Review!

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00The Matrix Minute is once again here for the Resurrection. Hello, welcome again, good to be back. With me is Jake. Resolution. Resurrected. And with me is Tim as well. What? What? I wasn't expecting that kind of voice to come out of it. How are you doing? Asbestos. Hello. Welcome. Merry Christmas, everybody. I can't believe we're back on the Matrix Minute. Wouldn't you? Could you believe it? Wonderful Christmas time. It is at the brink of...

0:40No, what do you call it? It's not Christmas. How do you say that? It was the night before Christmas. There you go. Well, the night before Christmas. Tomorrow is the night before Christmas. All through the house. Thomas Anderson was awakening. It's a Christmas gift for you. We are preparing. We're wrapping it. Yes, absolutely. As we speak. It is being wrapped. No, it is right here. Opening it as we speak. Yeah, yeah. Man, this podcast... We're wrapping it. You're opening it. This pad... This pad cast... I mean, like, we started with the Matrix. Pad cast. And back then, we had no idea. We had no idea there would be another Matrix film that we went to... That one of us went to the cinema to watch. Exactly. We thought the world was going to end. Yeah.

1:20I remember that one episode where it was like 2020, you know, when the moon collided with the Earth. We survived that. We survived that. Here we are. Here we are. Through... Against all odds. Through technology. Were there not any rumors when we were doing the podcast? Were there any rumors of the Matrix sequel? That was not in the book. I don't think so. Not that I recall. You know what? I wonder. I don't think so either. I remember on our commentary for Matrix for the 20th anniversary for the Matrix, the first one, there was something like, oh yeah, they're preparing a Matrix 4 or something. When was that? Oh, commentary. 2019. It was like 2019. March 2019, if you can believe that.

2:01So really, there wasn't any rumors? I thought we always talked about, like, oh, we're going to record the Matrix 4. Oh, that's what we did. Yeah. And then we did in January 2020. That's when we did our first rumors. I know, but weren't there, like, some unofficial rumors before? I don't remember those. I'm very distracted because we're recording with video on. We haven't done this. You just untied your hair. You have these flowing hair coming out. I look like Hermione. Just like Keanu. Tim, Tim, you look like when you went to buy the Dave Grohl book, you know? You're like Dave Grohl. Like I'm Dave Grohl. Yeah. So, welcome everybody. Once again, I can't believe this. The Matrix 4. I'm just, it's just surreal.

2:42It's a dream, but it's not a dream. I had dreams that are just not dreams. There are dreams, but not dreams. So, what can we say about this? How can we start? That's a good cataract in there. Tim, how can we start this? How do we start this podcast? Let's start with a bunch of stuff. Well, first of all, let's say hi to people. Hey, everyone. Yeah, nice to see you again. Hey, everybody. It's been a while. Last time we, you know, synced up with you all. Was, Phil knows, he's the encyclopedia. Trailer talk. Yeah. Trailer talk back in September. Which was when? September. So, it's been, you know, hasn't been necessarily a hot minute. It's been like a hot second.

3:24Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Synced up. But here we are. Everyone's been very active on Facebooks and on our Facebook page. So, thanks for that. That was fun. People post a lot of images and like memes and stuff. So, that was pretty cool. Yeah, I love that. We appreciate that. And I think that, I think all you guys are pretty interested in what this movie holds. As were we. Oh. By the way, guys, I was thinking, you know, for some reason in my head, I thought that we would have like a road to revolutions. Road. A rope to revolutions. I need a rope. I need a rope to the revolution. The resurrection. Okay.

4:04He has died. Let's go. And in 20 years, he has resurrected. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, crazy times, guys. Now, I wanted to say really quick was that I thought. Crazy times. Matrix 4. It's insane. It's insane. It's nuts. No, I thought, for instance, like. Maybe we would have like this road. I just. Yeah. No, no, no. Wait. Jacob has this weird NPR voice, which is hilarious. So, you should probably tell people why you sound like you're about to ASMR into people's ears. Yeah, let me tell you. So, why I'm ASMR, NPR voice, man, is that my son, Ruben, is sleeping. It's 9, almost 9.30 p.m.

4:44And he should be sleeping. But in case. Yeah. I have my little baby monitor here. And in case. In case he stirs, I will. I'll be just like randomly gone. So, like, you'll listen. And I'll be like, Jake's gone. And you'll probably be like, I didn't notice anything different, you know. Oh, come on. No one's going to say that. No one's going to say that. So, that's my. That six-month-old needs supervision. Yes. He's out of control. He's out of control. God knows what's going to happen when you come there. The scene. He'll be hacking into the hack. He's in his isolated modal. Oh, yes. He'll be testing his isolated modal. And he'll be hacking into, you know, your Roku. Not your Roku. Your Chromecast. I don't have a Roku. Deleting your files. So, yeah. That's all I wanted to say earlier was that I thought that we were going to have a road to resurrections.

5:28Where we would have, like, you know, bits of information, you know, moving forward. But I think all of us collectively decided after trailer one, we weren't going to watch trailer two. Because apparently, I think, Tim, you found out that it's, like, revealing or something. Yeah. It was a Reddit comment. It just said, I saw the trailer two's out. I went to Reddit. And the first comment said, hey, everyone just FYI. It's quite revealing. So, if you don't watch spoilers, stay away. I think it's true. We didn't watch it, right? None of us watched it. We didn't. Nope. I didn't. In fact. I didn't. In fact, Jake, you probably don't know this because you didn't listen to the Spider-Man podcast, which I'm glad you did because if you listened to it and you didn't watch Spider-Man, I'm just like, Jacob, watch Spider-Man. It's worth it. Oh, yeah. No Way Home. Home.

6:08Phil is talking about, which is a good thing we can plug. Yeah. So, if you're not familiar, me and Phil, Jake used to be there, but then he got blipped. Me and Phil talk about. I didn't get blipped. I drove away in my car, my fast car. Exactly. You drove away in a taxi. So, we had this bi-weekly, not bi-weekly, every two weeks podcast. Two-Fold Podcast, where me and Phil talk about movies. New movies and compare them to old. And it just came out like three days ago. We talked about a new Spider-Man movie. Yes. New Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah. And Jake hasn't seen New Spider-Man, so he shouldn't listen to the podcast. But if you listen, if you watch the movie, you should listen to the podcast. Go to podcast.com. I'll listen to the podcast without watching the movie. That's right.

6:50No, don't do that because I specifically call you out, Jake. I specifically call you out not to do it because I really think you should watch Spider-Man. Okay. No Way Home. Yeah, you've been called out on the podcast. Yeah. Okay. So, what did I want to say about that? It was that, yeah. So, when I went to the cinema to watch No Way Home, guess what? Second trailer of Matrix was popping up. And I was sitting in. Oh, no. And I had to do what Tim did in 2009. Just plug my ears. Close my eyes. That's when Tim was like, I'm not watching trailers. I don't want to get, you know, spoiled by any trailers. I would close my eyes. I don't want to get spoiled by any trailers. So, I don't see trailers. I pushed my fingers into my eyes. That's what you did. It's the only thing.

7:30I did do that. And you know what? The sound was so loud. To stop the trailers from playing. That I couldn't even, no matter how much I pushed into my ears, I could still hear it. If you did the Neanderthal countdown, I'm pretty sure you would have the sound. Yeah, I should have just gone, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. What is it with the Neanderthals today, Tim? Oh, well, my brother did the 23andMe. And being my brother, I share a lot of genetic code with him. And he got the results that he has 94% more Neanderthal DNA than any other 23andMe customer. Therefore, I have lots of Neanderthal DNA. So, I'm a proud Neanderthal. So, I'm just, yeah.

8:11My ancestors banged a Neanderthal. And I'm, you know, I'm just, I just want to say I'm proud. Cro-magnon. What other potential? No, not Cro-magnon. Just Neanderthal. Just Neanderthal. What potentials are there? You mean like multiple choice list? What do you mean? What could I be, for instance? I'm not necessarily a Neanderthal. Essentially, you can have, I think, from 0% to 2% Neanderthal DNA in your DNA. So, what? Stan has like 50? I don't know how much. No, no, no. He probably has max. 94. Probably max, up to 2, you know. Because he has more than everyone else. He doesn't have the exact. No, I know. He's a max Neanderthal. So am I. So. That's cool. You guys are both Neanderthal.

8:52Neanderthal. Scientific. Neanderthal. What episode is my brother, the Neanderthal, on? From Matrix? It should be around 20 or something like that. Okay, yeah. He was a guest on this podcast. On this podcast? On the neb. Longtime listeners will probably recall this. Yeah. When the two Neanderthals met. So that's my... I'm talking about Matrix. That was my avoidance of watching any trailers after the first one. And Jake doesn't know the story that that wasn't the only problem with the cinema. Uh-huh. Oh, you mean mine? Yeah, yeah. With Phil's. Because when he went to see Spider-Man. Yeah. I think you told me. Oh, the lights. The children? They didn't come off. The lights? What? The lights didn't come off.

9:33The lights were on. The lights didn't turn off. When the movie started. Spider-Man started. The lights didn't turn off. Did you go tell them at the... Yeah. We all did. There was a group. There was a mob of people. There was a mob of people. A woman and a man. They were all there. Yeah. And I went outside to... I had to tell them. Because like, we're watching the film and the lights are still on. I go outside. There's a bunch of other people there. And they're like, yeah, the lights, right? And I'm like, yeah, that's why I'm here. The lights. It's like a Seinfeld episode. It is like a Seinfeld episode. And this lady was like, I'm not going to watch the film with like this. You know, I'm going to get a refund. I don't either. So we mobbed them and it was fine at the end. Oh, they turned them off. Which brings me to my cinema story today.

10:14Yes. Tell us. So I was, as you know, I was very protective of the information for Matrix 4, you know, Resurrections. I watched the trailer. That's it. I don't want to see any more. And I tried my best. As the days came closer to watching Matrix Resurrections, I was like dodging as many thumbnails on YouTube that Tim got spoiled for Spider-Man with. What, toenails? As many. Toenails? I even dodging toenails, fingernails, enamel, all that stuff. Dandruff. Cats. No. What's the castle of the Baron? No, what's the, what's the. What? What? What's that quote?

10:55I ran over a dog, a cat. A dog, a cat. Dead dog. Dead dog. All the animals in the woods. There you go. So he dodged all the animals in the woods. Yes. And to this day, today, it was the hardest because Jake and Tim, do you want to just tell your story that the fact that you couldn't watch it? Oh, yeah, yeah. So COVID, cinema's closed. I can't watch it. I can only watch it on HBO Max. So we didn't have a lockdown, but, you know, a busy, busy father schedule. So we had to opt in for watching it at home instead of the cinemas.

11:35So we watched it a day before Phil. That's right. Which was like a unique opportunity. Yeah, I was going to watch it yesterday, but there were just way too many people in the designated theater that I wanted to go to. And it was also very late. It was going to be 11. And I think that that probably wouldn't be great for me coming back because it takes about 40 minutes for me to come back by tram. And I would have had to take a taxi. And I just didn't feel like talking to someone in a taxi. About the Matrix? You'd be like, so, how are you seeing Matrix? It was just too late. It was just too late for me. I don't know. I don't know. I can't speak. I'm thinking about Matrix. Go. Well, I do want to hear how you felt watching it on TV because I would have not watched it on TV.

12:16I would be like, I can't just sit here and just watch the film like this. I can't tell you that. I'll tell you my opinion, but you go, Tim. No, I don't. I don't think. I don't think it. I want to talk about what I felt watching the movie on TV, the Matrix movie, because it kind of reveals my opinion of the movie. Okay. Let's not talk about that. Okay, don't talk. Let's. Okay, go on. Well, I'm not going to reveal anything. I just wanted to say briefly that, for instance, I don't know how it is for you guys, but for instance, for me, what's interesting is that I've noticed that, you know, I've learned for myself is like watching something or experiencing something. It changes based on what format point of your life you're in. Oh, no.

12:58What format? So, for instance, like, you know, I don't necessarily think the experience is worse if you watch it. In a different format. That's what I've come to learn. Interesting. I just, you know, me, I love the cinema experience. If I can do it, watch it in a designated theater. A lot of the perceptions of that film, it's just more appropriate seeing it in a place where it's meant to be shown. That's how I feel. Black Hall, big screen, big audio. You're here for business, and that business is getting into the Matrix, or in any other case, any movie. Let's do it. I'm ready to get in. And, okay, so here's my theater story. My theater story.

13:38The theater story. First theater story. Yeah, my cinema story was that I do this to myself all the time. You know, it takes me roughly 40 minutes to get there from my house. And, of course, I go there right on the, you know, I get there right on the hour. Because I always forget. I'm always, like, looking at the time and going, I have 10 minutes left. I got 10 minutes before I leave. I got 15 minutes before I leave. It takes 5 minutes to get there. Yeah. And it takes, like, 50 minutes to get there. And, man, when I got into that train or tram and I was just heading on, I'm just, like, looking at the time. And it's like, it was at 4. And the time was at, you know, 3.17.

14:19And I'm like, am I going to make it? And I'm still sitting there. I'm listening to Matrix Reloaded and some music score from the old Matrix films. Looking. Getting yourself in the mood. 3.30. 3.40. And then, guess what? I get on to. What are you doing? Why are you at home? I'm not at home. I'm in the tram now. Oh. Yes. And Mona Lisa Overdrive from Matrix Reloaded plays. Why don't you train an Uber? Because there was lots of traffic as well. I just realized. I was, like, good that I got a train. It train has its way. Good that I got a train. because I saw some traffic, some major traffic, especially when I'm listening to, you know, get out because there's this whole like four minute walk

15:02that I have to take from the stop to the cinema. And I was just rushing. I actually recorded myself going. It was so Matrix-y. I felt like I was in the Matrix running towards that cinema to get on time, made it five minutes before it started, perfect. They scanned my ticket. I even had enough time to get some water. And I went in. And then I realized that the trailers were going to be another 20 minutes. So, could have been late anyway. Could have been late. I told you this, Phil. I know, but I, because I picked a deluxe theater this time. I picked a more expensive theater so I could avoid this children, you know.

15:46Did you successfully avoid the children? I did. Were the children there? Because they were only adults. And they were respectful and quiet. And it was fancier. And as I was watching those trailers go by, because I thought it was a fancy theater, they would have fewer trailers. I thought maybe their method is like, you know, they play trailers and then movie. Because I'm paying more. Turns out it wasn't like that. But every single time another trailer stopped and it was a blank screen, the lights were still on. And I was afraid. Lights were dirty. I was nervous because of that experience of Spider-Man. I did not want to get like half of the movie distracted just because the lights were on. So I personally went outside, talked to one of the employees and said,

16:28please, this happened to me last time. I'm just afraid. Could you please make sure to switch off the lights? And he switched off the lights for me a lot earlier than usual. And I was very happy. I was a happy person. They needed to fix their lights. Yeah. And it was a different theater too. All right. And then you sat down and the movie started. And the movie started. And here we go. And I wanted to say that I was very, like I said, I was avoiding all these spoilers. And then before I went to bed yesterday, I did the stupid thing and went on Instagram stories, you know, just going flipping through all the stories. And guess whose story. I specifically told him, don't tell me anything if you're watching it.

17:11But why didn't you, if you see it, just skip immediately? Why do you go on Instagram at all? Just read a book. That's also. I wasn't in bed, but I was close to going to bed. But you know what I mean? I just, I just, I made a mistake. I made a mistake. Dangerous. But anyway, I. And then when it came up. Playing a dangerous game. The thing, huh? Being late. I didn't even read it because guess who posted a story? Friend of the podcast. Luke. And it was just Matrix poster. Why didn't you read it? You can't read it because it was a picture of the Matrix poster with a giant poop on it. There you go. Well, first of all, you shouldn't be friends with Luke. And I was so mad. I was so mad. I was irreverent to these things. Luke, no.

17:51Why did you do this to me? He put the seed in your head. I was specifically. I was specifically neutral because I didn't know anything. You went poop. Two people sent me like reviews of the Matrix resurrections. And I blurred my eyes. I didn't see anything. I was like, no, don't tell me anything. Tim and me, like, you know, we went in fresh, like, you know, deodorant shower, you know, we were just like fresh. Yeah. Could be anything. But feel it comes in. Stinky armpits, you know. With a giant poop on my forehead. Yes. Giant poop on your face. That was your, like, you know. I love that because that's like the seed of destruction. Of just one thing that was going to be eating at your mind

18:31the entire time you're watching. I can say the opposite. There you go. I honestly have not seen anything. And since I haven't even been, like, reading Twitter in a while now, it's like that place is, like, the breeding grounds of that stuff. I saw nothing. I literally saw nothing. Yeah. I think maybe I saw, like, the word, the Matrix, right as the direction is somewhere. But no. No. Yeah. So that's good. What about you? Twitter is dangerous because it has, like, the trending stuff on the right. Yeah. It's very dangerous. Maybe they said, like, Matrix, worst movie ever, and that was a trending thing. Yeah. That's already a seed of destruction. So you got to. See, I didn't even know that. I was so mad. I was so mad. I didn't even go afterwards. So that's the great thing about. Well, you guys were, you guys had the benefit, you guys had the benefit of watching it very earlier

19:13when it first came out before anybody could see it. That's true. We watched it the day it came out. I would have done that too if it wasn't for the times being really messed up. Okay. Okay. So anyway, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening. And everything. I want to, before we discuss the movie, I just want to do a quick round, Robin. I want to know what the hype level of each individual host podcast this is. I can start with me and then we'll go to Phil and Jake. Essentially, when we watched the Matrix trailer, it was kind of like, okay, I'm interested where this will go. But I have to say that the hype and interest level kind of went down from there. I didn't see the second trailer. I did see the trailer.

19:55We did see some promo shots though, didn't we? We can't deny that. Like a couple of stills. Oh, no, no. I mean like after the trailer. Oh, like posters and stills and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Sure. I did see last week it came out the, sorry, Unreal Engine trailer. Matrix Awakens, yeah. Yeah, Matrix Awakens experience. I saw that. It's amazing. There's no spoilers of that. It kind of, for some reason, it put like this in my mind where I was like, this is probably not going to be good. Dude, I remember you texted us and you were like, you texted our group and you were like, you guys have a bad feeling. That's what you said. And the only thing I wanted to say that I also linked you guys to that Keanu Reeves and Carrie Animas interview.

20:35I'm guessing you guys didn't watch that. No, we didn't. And I wasn't looking for spoilers, but I was interested to see what they might say about the pretext, the context of how the movie got made. That's what was interesting to me. And was there anything information there? It turns out it was a pure fluff. But there was a little bit of a nugget where it's like, so like you, you felt that feeling, Tim. I felt a little bit of a similar feeling when Carrie Ann Moss said, I read the script and she said, I didn't realize how so many comedic elements were in there. That's a tip. I was like, I was like, no, no, I just want to say essentially it went from like feeling, have a bad feeling to going like completely neutral and just feeling like,

21:18like zero hype. Like there was like me turning on the movie to hit play, zero excitement or zero hype. It was really, let's see what this is. Not being like, I hope it's good. Or like, I hope this is terrible. It was just, let's just put this on. So that was my hype level. What about you, Jacob? Go Phil first. I'm listening. Okay. So since the beginning, listening to the noise, since the beginning, back in 2019, I was just like, ah, you know, I don't know what to expect here, but I'm pretty sure I won't be super excited. Then we saw the leaks. We saw pictures of Carrie and, you know, Keanu. And I was like,

21:58eh. And I said, we have some more pictures with, um, uh, Dr. Evil. No, what's his name? Dr. Neil Patrick Harris. Neil Patrick Harris and all the costumes. And I'm like, it might be something different, I think, because I didn't understand the concept yet, you know, because we just saw pictures. And then years and years later, the trailer comes out. Then I'm thinking, flat out, the trailer, this has to be a ruse. This has to be like a, a stick up. It has to be like a, it has to be facade. It can't be real. We were kind of like, we were leaning towards that.

22:38Yeah. I think all of us. Oh, it's like a trick. Yes. That's just like the 10 minutes. It's a trick. I think we all agree pretty much at the end. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I forgot about that. We talked about, we talked about all the rumors and stuff like that, but I think the most important thing to take away is these past two days. In fact, this past week, I even had a dream about watching the matrix for, wow. This only happened three times. Once for the Hobbit. Once for, I thought you had three dreams. No, no, no, no. This happened like once, once before watching the Hobbit. So 2012 ish. Then once before star Wars seven. And just, and for matrix. Cause I had one for Hobbit. Yeah.

23:18Yeah. So the hype is real, man, for you then. The hype is real, the hype is real, but I need to tell you that I'm not coming in with some kind of blind expectation of it, you know, to be, you know, I'm not expecting, I'm not going to be angry if it doesn't reach certain things that I'm expecting of it. Do you know what I mean? Do you get that? Yeah. So I'm, I'm in it, but not. Yeah. I'm expecting, I'm excited to see where this goes because the images in the trailer, thinking about it again, I noticed that they are not, uh, shying away from the sequels. And I've come to realize that I love the sequels based on their ideas.

24:00And I think we had this conversation before execution. That is something else, but the ideas and like the balls for them to just flip around the original matrix film and do something else, try to be creative and expand their world in different ways to give you some more, some more, something to think about, you know, and that's always been entertaining to think about those sequels and you know, what they mean and what happens and how this happens in the world. So that's what I was excited about. I was like, please let it be something that will be different. You know, I want to see something different. I want to see them shake it up. I don't want to see, I think the worst would be if I went into the film and I saw real Morpheus

24:41coming in and going, you know what I mean? Yeah. Break the chains. Yeah. Yeah. You know, something like that. That's from the first movie. That's not evolution. That's not evolution works. Agent Smith. Oh yeah. That's right. Evolution. Like the dinosaur. That's what propelled them. Hey, listen to this. So my, since we're going around. Yeah. The circle, the table. for me, it's sort of, remember how we mentioned in the, in the rumors that sequel movies that come out decades later. Yeah. Typically,

25:21you know, something I learned is you're never going to have the same, you know, I, I look at sort of these seminal movies or like, what are they called? Watershed movies, like the matrix lightning in a bottle, right? It's a time and place. It's just multitudes of things coming together to create. Stars collide. Yeah. And I think that, you know, for me, those movies are still like, they have something in them that's like special because of the context, right? Especially. And, um, so when it comes to the movies, like decades later, uh, I think that naturally for me, it's like you, you have a sense of, you know, skepticism in a sense, like we talked about, it can either go in, in a direction that's interesting,

26:02sort of like subversive and flipping things, you know, doing a 180, anything, anything apart from a standard storyline, right? That's one option. That's how I see it. And the other option is it becomes mediocre to bad. And it's forgotten about very quickly. So that's kind of the, the feeling for these movies. So hype levels for me, I was a little bit interested because it's a movie that's like personal to all of us. We grew up with the matrix and it's a movie that's like, has like a place in our sort of growing up. And, uh, and we all think we all agree that it's like, it's one of our favorite films. So that's why I wanted to see, you know,

26:42what the creator in this case, Lana, right? Wachowski, what she had in mind when she's revisiting that and doing it again. And that, that's what I was curious about. But again, the caveat with that is, and we'll get to that later is like, you know, it also depends on the motivation context of why this movie got made in the first place. And so that also influences your perception. So, well, I could tell you a little bit of that motivation that, that happened. For me, it's more like a curiosity, but also a sense of like, you know, pessimism of like, you know, yeah. Cause every, every movie, I have a little bit of hope maybe, but you feel like, you know what,

27:23it just never pans out like that, you know? And it's just like, that sort of, don't do that. It's a small chance. Don't give me hope. It being the lighting in a bottle again. Some movies did it, but not most. Well, I wasn't expecting, you know, I wasn't expecting exactly feeling the same way of matrix two, but I was, I was hoping for at least something that is akin to matrix two and three. Okay. Not matrix one, but matrix two. And if, and if it's, if it's going to be even better, that's even better, but you know, why? It's weird to film. What I don't want. What? Why akin to two and three? I mean, if anything, usually when these movies get made, they're usually harking back to the original, like sort of the second and third become,

28:03I think you meant in quality. Right, Phil? Yeah. Like you were, like you, you knew it's never going to be, it's not going to be matrix one. you're saying, you're saying bad, like bad, like negative sense. I thought you meant positive sense. Gotcha. Okay. No, no, no, I'm just saying as long as it's, as long as it does what the matrix sequels did, just propel it. like that level, a direction. I don't, it's okay. If the execution isn't the best, I would love to see more ideas. I see what you're saying. So like storytelling content sort of. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, so let's get into this, right? Yeah. I'm ready. Are we getting into this? I want to ask you guys, how, how do we want to do this? I mean like what happened to reloaded and revolutions? Oh shit. I forgot about that.

28:44Um, can you, okay. Not the whole recap. Can you just, yes, I can feel how it ended. Easy. How it ended story. Yeah. How does the trilogy of matrix trilogy? And because this is movies continuation of the trilogy as sorry, spoilers, whatever. It's continuation of the trilogy. Um, so how does matrix revolutions end? Right. Well, cause I didn't remember watching this, but I was like, shit, we should have read how this ends actually. I did the impossible and I watched all three matrix films before this movie. That's crazy. You maniac. You maniac. Those movies are long. I did it. I did it. I do.

29:24I did it. I did it. I did it with a friend of mine. Who's never seen the sequels, only seen the first one, never seen the sequels. So I was able to watch it with open eye, with fresh eyes. No, no, no, no. I'm joking. That's where it was revealed to him. Anyway, it was good fun because they really just, they were like, you know what? Sixth matrix. What? I love, this is actually really cool. You know? So I thought, Hey, you know, they never saw anything. Anyway, this is what happens. War in Zion, right? Neo says, I'm taking the logos. Niobe, I'm taking your ship. The general white man goes,

30:04you can't take the ship. This is asinine. Remember that? And then I always like, don't tell me what to do. I'm giving him the ship. He and Trinity go to the machine world. Why? Yes. I don't know. I have to, I have to do something. He gets, Trinity dies. He gets punctured by that. Why they, when they go from the sky, crash land into the machine city, Trinity turns into a porcupine. She's dead. It's sad. Neo goes blindfolded. He stands up. The interesting part in the revolution, that was that Neo was walking around the machine city and he's in, he isn't being attacked. So clearly something's going on, right? Something's up. Something's up. Something's fishing. Something's fishing. And he sees every, he's blind, but he sees everything. That's right. He sees the light. The light.

30:44That's right. And then the big giant porcupine, Deus Ex Machina machine comes in and he's like, we don't need you. And he's like, yeah, you do. I need to, I need to, I need to fight Smith. The ape. The Neanderthal. That's my favorite part of the podcast. Wow. I'm just, I just complimenting our own podcast there. Leave that to us. Sorry. I just love it. And they fight because Smith takes over the entire matrix because it didn't reload. Because Neo chose Trinity instead of humanity. So they can't do the cycle again. Right, right, right, right. So Neo was supposed to choose. Yeah. Reset. Rebirth. He was supposed to kill everyone in Zion.

31:24Yeah. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Everyone in Zion dies. But it didn't cycle. Neo gets his little starter kit to make a new Zion and they reload the matrix. They destroy Zion and it does the next hundred years. Same thing. Yes. So they did that six times already. Yes. Or five times. So boring by the way. Repetitive. Well, yeah. Getting with the times. Try something else, you guys. Yes, all right. Shake it up. Because 99.9% of people will accept the matrix if this cycle happens. Oh, that's right. That's another reason. Yes, yes, yes. And now no one knows what to do. Machines don't know what's going to happen. Neo doesn't know what's going to happen. And there's Aiden Smith screwing everything up. Thankfully, Smith the ape is destroying the matrix from within by copying himself left and right. And Neo's like, I'm the solution.

32:04And then the machine God says, Kung Fu, the battle of destiny. The battle of ultimate destiny happens and the machine God says, what do you want? And he's like, peace. And Neo finds out that he has to sacrifice himself, gets assimilated by Smith. The machine was able to, still to this day, 20 years later, I still understand how that worked, but okay. Well, because he's connected to the source. He's connected to the big machine and the big machine can control everything in the matrix, apparently. And he can, he uses Neo to destroy all the other, um, okay. Smith. That's how he connects to Smith powers.

32:45Yeah. Cause he's okay. Yep. Yep. Okay. And so yeah, sacrifice himself. Smith is defeated. Neo is dead, but the matrix is now a new chapter, a new chapter. They don't reload it the way they do. Zion is left alone this time for the first time ever. And we know that machines, and there's a truce. Yes. And we know that machines are more human-like as well as Ramakandra. My daughter, she is very beautiful. she is beautiful. My daughter, And is it Satie that she designs the new matrix or something like that? Is that, is that what it's supposed to be? That was like something like that, right? Cause she made, she made the sunrise happen. Remember? Okay. Okay. You know, I think that was more like more of like abstract sort of thing that they put in at the end.

33:28But I think the point is what you're saying, Phil, is that there was this truce that happened where for the first time machines and humans were living in somewhat of like a, it's like a compromise, somewhat of peace. It's not like a pure peace. It's not the same cycle. People are plugged in, stay plugged in. They won't stop Zionists. They won't stop free people, free, free humans from unplugging people. But the people are not told, they're still unaware they're in the matrix, but if Zionists want to free them, they won't stop them. Exactly. It's okay. There you go. Okay. One question, one question. While I was watching the new matrix movie, for some reason I couldn't stop thinking of, is there an explanation? So when matrix reloaded ends, Neo stops the, the sentinels with the hand,

34:11right? And I remember when that, I saw that when the first time I saw that, me and my friend were like, it's big. Is the matrix within a matrix? Does he have superpowers? Is he a God? What's the explanation of this? And I can't remember. Was that ever explained? I don't think so. I don't think it was, but it's kind of like, because that ties into the seeing blind. They're all tied. Like in the movie, he says like, I'm connected. I went to the source, so I'm kind of connected to them now. And all the machines get their orders, from the source, which is, Oh, so, so he, he's just the fact that he's connected to the matrix. So that's why he can sense the sentinels because, yeah. And you can not have no supernatural. Yeah. Yeah. And he can command them to kill themselves.

34:52Okay. That makes sense. Vision too. Yeah. Yeah. Because he can only see machine related. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. That's all I wanted to know. And I want to check by with you. Great. Excellent. We're here. We're here. Hey, so quick question before we start. I love this. Listen, I love it. The guy who said we should start now. No, listen, listen. I love this. Something I was thinking about before we record. It's a serious question. Are we going to, A. Oh, here we go. What? Tell me. Scene by scene? Well, I'm getting to that, but listen, A, are we going to talk about our feelings, opinions, and perceptions of the movie as a whole? Or two, are we going to pick it apart in terms of like logic and scenes and stuff like that?

35:35Phil's the boss of this podcast. So, you know what I'm going to say? I'm going to say, let's just, let's just, let's just throw a cards down and say, what did you think? Okay. And then just go from there. Let's do that. Okay. And then we'll talk about the rest. Okay. Do you want me to, do you want me to throw in the cards first? At the same time? Who's drawing our cards first? We do three, two, and we all say what we think. Oh, shit. I have nothing prepared in my brain to say, uh, well, then who wants to go for it? Who's throwing the cards? Who's, who's the, who's on first? Phil threw the cards. I saw them. Yeah. You threw the cards. Your cards are on the table. You should read them. Philip. Okay. I'll, I'll, I'll read my cards. Read those cards. Oh, no, no, I don't. He's tarot. You, you will, you will be,

36:15you will be touched. Okay. That was first. Me first. It's never starting a podcast. What is this? Okay. What if you say, because I had a very specific reaction when the credits showed up, what was the first thing that popped in your head when the credits showed up? That's what I'm curious. Okay. So credits and what's your thought or emotion? Yeah. Yeah. Like the first thing in the brain. At the end. Yeah. After the final shot, boom, credits in your brain. What, what came up? I can tell you exactly what I said it out loud. You asking me. So yeah. Yeah. I, I just, what did you think? Like, what did you, what did you feel?

36:55What did your brain produce? Okay. I'll tell you right now. I just went. That's interesting. Um, I kind of, I kind of, I kind of laughed out loud. You know, I said literally out loud, I was like, what the fuck? That's what happened. I went, I went, and then I, and then I thought of the, the cover band because there was this big controversy about that. No, I don't know nothing. Okay. Nevermind. Let's not talk about it then. Okay. Who is the cover band? The brass, like rage. Uh, that's what it was. Oh, brass. Oh, the freaking song.

37:36Right. Yeah. With the saxophones. Yeah. We started, wasn't that, wasn't that it? Wake up. That's right. The new version. Yeah. The new version. Um, yeah. Uh, well, it's, it's great that we started at the end. So why don't we just go to the beginning? No, here's the thing. Like I, here's the general thought. Okay. I saw a comment online. Here's my cards. I saw a comment online, which, which kind of, I completely agree with. Um, I don't know where it was, but someone said, um, okay, I'm not going to say this movie is crap, but I'm not going to argue with someone who does, which is exactly what my thought is, which is because, I mean, that's exactly how I thought of the sequels, the two and three.

38:18It's like, it's a general, that's a pretty general comment though. I think, cause I think at the end of the day, it depends on, you know, what do you think about the movie in relation to, this is how I see it. What do you think of the movie in relation to your experience with the other movies? Because that's how I see like this film, cause the film was made as a sequel. So here's the thing. It's, it's, I don't hear, I'm not the person, I believe in, you know, like the rights of the creative person to make whatever. I'm not one of those people who's going to go, well, you know, I'm the audience. I own this or you ruin my childhood or that I, as a viewer, I am. It's, it's up to the entire creator. If they want to do something completely different with,

38:59they have the creative license to do whatever. And me as an interviewer, I can either enjoy it or not. I can comment on it. It's, but I don't feel this obligatory, some kind of righteousness to protect something that I feel is ruined or something like that. So from that case, I didn't mean it like that. No, I'm just saying like to me, so it's, so that's what it means is like, there was that. I didn't particularly like it at all. I, I, I enjoyed the experience watching it. I, I think there's, there's some, some interesting ideas I, I wrote down that were glimpses of in this movie that I wish were more explored than the other stuff. I think there's,

39:40there's some, definitely some really big flaws for me personally. They kind of, that kind of made this movie worse for me. Um, I think one of them is essentially, so one of the two most annoying takes when I, when you, when I hear someone talk about the matrix or talk to someone on the matrix, the me personally, or me, one is I really hate when people, um, say, you know, Hey, we're talking about the matrix and he's like, Hey, you know, what if, what if our, you know, world is a simulation? It's just so like, I'm 13 and this is deep. Like the classic, the literal, it's like, can you just, you know, like it's,

40:20can you maybe take the movie as a metaphor and not just completely literally? Like that's like, that's your take. That's, that's, you mean, you mean the Reddit literal man? It's like, that's what you're thinking of. Like, like, like, and the other one is, you know, matrix within a matrix, you know, inceptioning it. What if in the sequel matrix was in a matrix and in another matrix? Yeah. And, and funny enough, yeah, the Matryoshka doll. This is one of the concepts that was used in this movie. And secondly, my biggest gripe, which was what we talked about in the trailers is the cinematography. Oh, that's, I think we'd argue with that being said, you want to just go from the beginning and just,

41:00well, since Tim got to say his opinion. Yeah. Yeah. I want to hear, I want to hear you guys. I want to cover all the opinions. Yes. So listen to what I think. I think I've gotten to the point where these kinds of movies, here, here, I'll, I'll say, I'll put it this way. I think at some point watching the movie, I kind of felt like sad and hear me out on this because, okay, I think that, I don't know. You know, when you watch these kinds of movies, that's like I mentioned, the matrix is something big for you. That was, you know, our brains develop in certain ways, right? And certain things stick because we were a certain age. I think that's also a part of why we like the matrix. Yes. But also because I do believe that, for instance, when you look at someone's career or someone's,

41:42you know, also a period in their life, for instance, like if you look at the Wachowski, then brothers, you know, they made this movie when they were in a period in their careers where they were really trying to prove themselves, you know, and they were really trying to create something really rich, you know, have so many different elements because they were thinking a lot of stuff. So I kind of have that belief in the creative space that a lot of times what you create is as good as what you input in yourself, like sort of like what you're intaking, you know, what you're, if you're a filmmaker, what you're reading, Oh yeah. The inspiration. What you're watching. If you're a musician, what music you're listening to, you know, what things you're picking up on, what, you know, all that stuff just subliminally influences your work. And so I think that with the matrix,

42:23all that stuff influenced them. And they made a movie that, you know, had a lot of that, had a lot of elements. And plus, since you guys mentioned, you know, technical aspects, it had like the cinematography that was like really, you know, killer. Everything works together, you know, to make a really cool film. And also it could have been, you know, there were, there was basically their second big movie. So I think there was a lot of influence from, you know, veterans like Bill Pope, the cinematographer, everyone who maybe didn't really drive the vision they were trying to say, but they did have an influence. So it had a little bit more of a, you know, you don't try and get it like, you know, combining of everything. It's a little bit of a, maybe like a disheartening notion, but it's something I've noticed in general is that,

43:04you know, a band's second album, you know, that was amazing is just, it's always going to top their eighth album, you know, and it's just the nature of how things work. I think that's just how it's, you can look at it positively or negatively, but I think that's kind of how life kind of flows. You know, you have windows and you either take the opportunities. You don't, if you don't, you know, trying something later is not going to be necessarily the same as had you made it at that certain point. That's kind of my opinion, how it feels. I'm not saying that's the truth. I think different stories. I do share a similar, like the two terms you, you, you mentioned one is lighting in a bottle. I feel like this was the biggest takeaway after watching this movie was like, yeah, matrix one was a lighting in a bottle. I think that's,

43:45that's, that's just something that maybe for these creators most likely will never be top. And second, like the, we talked about this before about the sort of comparison to bands of like when they, you know, they go through, they have their first sophomore album, everyone loves it. And then a couple of next albums are very similar to people love it. Then they get bored, you know, the audience and the band members themselves, they change it. They can't find their groove. They can't find their audience kind of like stagnant. And then they go to this, let's do the, how we did it. As we said, and it just never, it just never works because you're just not in that space and time and brains. I totally agree with that. I totally agree with that. Yeah.

44:25And I want to say that's a big part of my perception. The movie has, has that theme running behind it, because I think that that's something you cannot, you can't, you have to watch this movie with that in mind. I think there's no way you can't. And I think that like we talked about bands, artists, creative people, I think that, you know, there are kind of different kinds of creative people. And I think that sort of the most, and this is again, you know, partly hard work, partly talent, partly a bunch of other combinations. But for instance, you know, people who even make great, you know, like great works later in their career, I think that they have a very specific drive to try different things, you know, to try new things and to sort of,

45:07like I said, subvert even their old stuff, you know, and not necessarily like say, you know, not, you know, they don't reminisce on like, you know, that's second album. Yeah. They're never better than that. They think, oh, you know, I did that. That's over. I was 22. You only move forward. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, exactly. That, that mindset I think has a really direct correlation. Be in the mindset of your age and what's inspiring you right now. Don't be looking back. You accept it. I should have done, you know, yes, exactly. Like people look like David Lynch or someone like that. There's just always creating things just going forward and don't look back. I think it's a very sort of mature sign like when someone gets there. But anyway, all this to say is that what made me sad is that for instance, you know, I had that little sort of glimmer of hope in the sense of like,

45:49you know, I think that Lana and Lily are very, you know, smart, clearly smart, clever people. And they clearly have, you know, they've have a lot of influences and they've done, you know, some amazing work in their careers. And, um, what made me sad is basically watching the film within the first 15 or 20 minutes. I kind of realized where this movie was going and it made me sad because I, you know, everything we talked about, I had like a little percent of chance thinking, you know what, you know, I'd be really kind of like, I sort of hats off like, man, this is really cool. Like Lana just kind of said, you know, screw all these other ideas, you know, let's just go for something wacky,

46:29something crazy, something, you know, even stupid, even if it was stupid, I'd be like, that's cool. Um, because I think when at the point, I guess, you know, you know, in general where it's like, I just don't really have any interest in anything middle of the road. I don't, I don't find it interesting. You know, it's like, it's a bit of a threshold thing. It's like, if you, like you said earlier, Tim, like there are bits you like, bits you don't. As soon as you said that, I was like, you know, you know, is it really worth sort of like, some bits you lose, some bits you keep. I mean, a movie that's sweet, you know, you know what I mean? That's kind of where I'm getting at with the whole movie. I get it. I think, and I, and I'm not saying I expected it to be like any, some kind of perfection or a masterpiece. Not at all. I'm just saying, I really was hoping personally for something completely in the same vein of that,

47:15you know, clever sort of more sort of like, um, uh, you know, feeling that the, the bros back then. The feel of lighting that you watched as, as, as the matrix. It just, yeah. No, not, not necessarily like the lightning in a bottle thing, but just like, no, like lightning, like screwing around and yeah, yeah. You know, trying stuff. Yeah. Just some kind of mind tingles. That's what I meant. Like something, something. And then, you know, that was sort of it at the beginning. But then later, as I realized that this is not improving, we'll, we'll get to that later, but anyway, that's fine. I'm dying to know what Phil thinks. Um, but before, before that, I think just like talking about it and talk to you, Jake, I think, you know, you were asking like,

47:55if I summarize in the sentence or whatever reaction, uh, I think it's coming clear. It's like, I didn't like what I see, but I'm okay with that. I think that's my general, general vibe. Do you, do you, do you have you come across what your general vibe is, Jake? Well, but what do you mean by that? Like, you're, I mean, I'm okay with it too. I mean, it's a movie that exists now. I mean, I'm pretty, no, I mean like, I'm not upset. I'm not sad that I watched it. I'm not, I'm not, I don't like it, but I'm not, that I'm not, I'm not, I really just, I watched it. I didn't like it. I'm okay to go on in my life. I'm just saying, that's kind of part of what I'm trying to say as well is that it's just, I'm just saying it's a little bit sad in the sense that,

48:35you know, you kind of sometimes hope for something to be, um, different, what the hell is that on top of your head, Philip? I've had this on top of my head this entire time, every podcast, because I lost the cushion on the top of my, that's amazing. I want to say that basically I'm okay with two. I'm just saying that it's a little bit like saddening where it's like, you know, I'm looking at more like chronologic, like we've, you know, experienced sort of sequels in our lifetime and probably experienced many more, you know, 30 years later. And it just makes you feel a little bit like, man, like, you know, makes you a little bit, you know,

49:15reminisce and like, huh, you know, it's interesting that we actually lived through a sort of watershed thing. And we lived through 20 years later, just sort of like, Oh, you're visiting that. And okay, that was kind of interesting. Yeah. Moving on. Right. Okay. All right, Phil. Yeah. I'm dying. Well, I'm dying to know. You're dying. You're dying. The most hype, the most, the most excitement. Let's hear. What you got? I have my theories. What do you think? But go ahead. Well, it must've been an emotional rollercoaster for Phil. He's in cinema. I think for Phil. He's hyped. He loves the matrix. He liked it. I'm going to say 31 and a half percent more than we did.

49:59Trinity. He liked Trinity more than we did. Go Phil. Yeah. So much drama. Come on. I liked it. I liked it as much as I liked the sequels. Wow. That's the perfect world. I'm going to say that. And I'm going to tell you why. Jake is, I agree with him a hundred percent what you said, Jake, but I think it was a positive thing. Oh, I know where you're going with this. Lana just doing her thing and expressing herself within the story of the matrix while still pushing the narrative forward of the matrix. So I wanted to say that I did very much.

50:44I was very, very interested to see where everything went since revolutions. I thought you would. Yeah. I thought you would. Machines and humans living together. And I was, I really, I was wondering for the past 17 years, what would that look like? What does it look like? And conceptually, I was pleased to see it. Okay. Huh. You know, like, that's exactly what we talked about in our podcast. Remember when we were joking about Neo going to confront the big spiky porcupine, Deus Ex Machina. And then we joked about, oh, wait, there's a Ramakandra. He's here. He's a little bug. He's Ramakandra. Guess what? We get bug friends here as well.

51:25You know what I mean? It's like, it's a natural continuation of the story that was established before. And I was like, I'm so glad to see someone not just pull a Terminator six and just be like, forget the sequels. We're going to do our, okay. Okay. Yeah. People didn't like, they do that in every film. They put to that in every film, you know, like every bad movie, they say, ignore that. We're making our better one. And it's worse. I have a question. You know what I mean? It's wrong here. But wouldn't you say that's a different, like you have different flavors of that. Like that bad movie version, that's a crappy flavor. That's like a, you know, a design by committee.

52:05Yeah, exactly. You know what? Exactly. We're going to, you know, subvert expectations by what? Just changing the word instead of, it's going to say six years, we're going to put 80 years. That's exactly right. Terminator six. Remember instead of Skynet, it's, I don't know what it was, Razor or whatever. It was, it's exactly the same. And they're exactly the same. It's a Terminator, but it's not Skynet. I would say that that's a different kind of, you know, that's a bad version of like changing, just to change things. But I know that, but I know that in this film, being as messy as it is, it came from one person. Okay. And that one person made those other movies. And I was happy seeing what they had in store,

52:48but that doesn't mean that by the end of it, I was like super excited. So you like that it wasn't, you know, one of those studio, you know, cash grabs where it just kind of grabs the ideas and put it like you, you were glad that at least Lana got to tell whichever the story she wanted to say. And she got to say that, that made you happy. Yes. And you know, it's funny. I've been reading for the past hour since I came home before talking to you guys, I've been reading people's reviews and I'm staggered at the amount of people who said that they hated the first 40 minutes. Cause I love the first 40 minutes. Is there any particular reason why they hate it? The first 40 minutes?

53:30Do you want to get into it? Cause then maybe that's how we can just start. That's what we're here to do. Yeah. Talking about it. So the movie starts as if the first Matrix started. Yes. Yes. And when it, when it started, I was like, no, no, don't do this to me. Don't do this to me. I don't want this. I didn't come here for another Matrix one. Yeah. Similar. What did you, what did you think? Just like, no, please God, no. You did. Yeah. Cause I'm telling you, I thought it was going to be like, you know, this is part of one of my opinions on the whole movie. And I wanted to get your guys' opinion. I think I'll mention it now cause I'll forget later. Did you guys notice that, um, the entire film plays with this idea of like reflections of previous segments of the Matrix films?

54:10Yeah. Pretty much most of the entire movie is basically Matrix one. Is that? Not necessarily. For instance, like later in the movie when they did the planning to free Trinity, that's a carbon copy of Matrix two where Morpheus is narrating the power plant. But I want to say that there's a lot of these like, you know, Oh, you're right. I didn't think of that. Yeah. There's a lot of these like, not in copies, but those, um, like, uh, yeah, I guess it is a bit like a copy, but deliberate, obviously. So I wanted to get you to take, what do you, why do you think that is? And what do you think the sort of meaning behind that was? Not, not story wise, but like creatively, I wonder what the purpose of that was.

54:50I was one, let's just go back into resurrecting. Like Neo keeps having dreams all the time. And it's like, just pulling back all the old stuff. It's just, Oh yeah, I think that's it. Yeah. That's part of it. Oh, like him reminiscing. I have to say, I didn't think about it conceptually. I think as a viewer, thinking of filmmaking techniques, I was really, like you said, like the first, the scene I didn't like, and I didn't like the constant, like, even after Neo's back, that keeps going. Like there's, there's, there's like scenes that happen very similar to the other, the other movies. And also there's literal,

55:32like, shots and little, like, you know, bits of the video from the old movie, because. I want to, I want to get to that. Because here's the thing, like I said, we didn't catch up on that. Was it, I just hated the cinematography of the movie. It's, it's, I agree. I mean. It's very flat and it's very like, like a Netflix movie kind of, you know, like we're just watching Hawkeye and it just like, I could, like Matrix could fit into Hawkeye easily. Would you guys not agree that in general, this movie, largely, not largely, but in a lot of parts suffers the fan film syndrome. Wouldn't you guys agree? That's what my wife says. She's like,

56:12this, this feels like fan fiction. Somebody did fan fiction, not the actual people who made the movie. And that's exactly why I wanted to mention earlier, like to add to my point is that's why I think that, you know, I think they should have embraced that, you know, and like, why isn't the whole movie a fan film? You know what I mean? And that's like, you watch and you're like, that's, that's funny. The funny thing is that I was fine with the cinematography because you, it's, it's, it's not the same Matrix. It's like a new version of the Matrix. And I thought, but let's say for instance, you know, the classic sort of things that I think all of us would agree, we kind of takes us out from it. It's like the, you know, the shutter, and the, I mean, there's the, the weird shuttery slow motion. I haven't seen that since,

56:53you know, since Gandalf. Yeah. Since Gandalf. That's since Gandalf. What was his name? He's he'll do the fell for the horse and to the swamp. It's been 20 years since I saw that nasty ass, you know, weird. That's so, that's so funny. Cause okay. I think I need to tell this one Jake's here. Cause it's an important piece of information, but, um, I don't know, like for me, it just, I thought this is a new matrix, literally a new matrix. And then it's confirmed later on in the, in the story. It's a new version of the matrix. They made a new version. They rebooted it to be new. And I thought this one is going to be more pleasant, less oppressive,

57:33more boring, more plotting, more pedestrian, something for the comfort of the modern man. You know what I mean? Something for the, the, the people to still be more immersed in, in the simulation, which I thought was going to be the story. I was thinking to myself, maybe this is something to, like the machine pulled a machines, pulled a little fast one to kind of manipulate people into staying in the matrix more. And there's less people in the real world. Now I know I'm thinking in story, and if that was the intention, pretty cool. But I, the problem is the desired effect didn't, wasn't affected on me. What, what it just made me,

58:14it made it look cheap. It made it look like fan fiction. There's a certain amount of how people talk and how they move and the way it was shot in the old movie, even for the sequels, it made it look really cool. And I think that was part of what the feeling of matrix was. And I agree with that. Having that completely gone, having this flat TV, like lighting on everything. And just the, the, how things are framed and weird shutter speed. And then constantly being reminded of how the old movie looked with those flat. But it's, you know, like we talked about general Tarkin, you know, in a star Wars, like his weird uncanny Valley. It's like, if he was by himself, you wouldn't notice it.

58:54But if you're constantly doing a reverse shot of seeing other real people, you're constantly reminded of general Tarkin looks like garbage. Yep. Same thing with the matrix. If, if those shots were not constantly jumping at me and remind me how cool the old matrix look, I probably wouldn't care about cinematography the entire time. I'm also trying to argue is like, for instance, that those things can't be recreated in the sense, like, I just think that that exists in all creative spaces. It's the demo syndrome in music, right? It's like, if you make a demo and you love this, a demo is like when you're trying to create a song, a demo is something like a scratch track, something you do to sort of get the idea down, right? It's a rough recording.

59:35And it typically, you know, you're going to go record that professionally or in a better way. That's, you know, cleaner, tighter, you know, and so on. It's gonna be production level. Right. But the funny thing is, I think a lot of musicians agree. It's like the demo syndrome is that you're in love with something in the demo. That's just produced sonically or feeling wise, just captured something in that moment. Right. It's, it's incredibly difficult, almost impossible to recapture that demo feeling. Now I get that. And so that's something I think is, is, is a great example for this. It's like, instead of trying to recapture or do it again, either embrace how ridiculous that feels, you know, and kind of make,

1:00:15not necessarily make fun of it, but just do something with it different rather than doing it again. And, and that, that's why I struggle with understanding the motivation behind like, what's going on here? Like, what is this, how is this supposed to be perceived? I don't know. Phil, you read all this stuff, right? So is there a specific reason why they chose to keep playing clips from the old movie? I like such an old school. I was weird. I'm going to say, I wanted to, I wanted to go, I wanted to go like scene by scene. I know you like general scene. You like to go through the movie. Cause it's nice when you listen. because I know that when I listen to a podcast and they go scene by scene, Cause I, it's like, I'm listening, I'm remembering the movie and I enjoy taking a nice walk.

1:00:57Why don't you pick in the highlights? Well, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying to do that. So I'm just saying that opening scene where bugs, our new character with the blue hair, um, is observing this, the opening of the matrix one. Remember that? Yes. That's at the very beginning. I was in true. I was, that was really cool. See, I was like, don't do this to me. You know, I saw the cops again, they're coming with their flashlights and I was like, no, please no, no, no. And then it was, then it cuts to her and she's looking at it. Yes. I'm like, okay, okay. I want to, I want to know, I want to know what is, what is this? What is this? And then her friend on the ship comes in, like he's a little, he's a little avatar. And I'm like, no, no, kill me, kill me now. Stop this.

1:01:37Go away. This is not good. I don't like this. I don't like this. He's like actually projecting himself. Can you imagine tank doing that in the first matrix? It just kills it. It would be the best. So beautiful. But I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm willing to, I'm willing to understand what the logic is behind this. So I'm guessing it's in the future. So they, you know, it's, it's, it's like that. So that, that whole scene happens. Right. And then she, I hate to be, I hate to interrupt you, but were you not bothered by the weird, how it looked? Just this weird, uncanny valley of seeing something familiar, but not the matrix, but not the matrix. Right. Yes. I like that because I, that's what I want to see more of. I want, I want to see this, this, I was looking,

1:02:18yeah, I was looking for that. I was like, why is, why are we watching a cheaper, weirder off the brand? Off brand, off brand Trinity as well. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, there's gotta be something. There's a shot. That was weird. There has to be something to this. You know, I was like, I was, you know, getting intrigued, even if I was cringing when it's like, Oh, they did the shot where it goes down the, you know, heart of the city hotel. But I love that because it was like, it's like the lieutenant, your men are already dead. It was like the filmmaker was telling us something. And I like that stuff. Yeah. So you're, you know, you're like, you have to make, you know, like what's his name? X-Men 3, Avi Arad, it better make you think. Yeah, exactly. X-Men better make you think.

1:02:59I show that to Tim just like four days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is funny how these coincidences are happening. Yeah. X-Men 3 better, X-Men better make you think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I'm getting used to the tone right now at this opening where she's being, she interrupts the agents doing the agent thing, right? Yes. Trinity. Yes. Like they're trying to chase her. Because one of them is Abdul Mateen, is that his name? Yeah. Yahya Abdul Mateen. I don't know. The second. So Smith is played by, yeah, like a black dude. So it's completely different. Yeah. And Trinity is like not Trinity. She's a, she's a faker. That's confusing. Yeah. And she interrupts the process and it's like, what is this process?

1:03:40Are they like looping something to make something? What's happening? Is this a simulation? Is this the Matrix? Is this training? That's what I thought at first. I thought it was some kind of history document. Oh yeah, it is a cold opening. We're not really sure what's, what's, what's the world. Yeah. But then she talks to Agent Smith, quote unquote Smith, Yahya Abdul Mateen. And he takes her into the, the hallway with the doors. Remember that? Yep. Like from Matrix Reloaded. Matrix 2. And then they drop into an apartment and then they start talking. That was awesome. Dude. I was like, I was just like, you know what? Here's, this is, I think this is a good place for me to tell you what I didn't like and liked about it.

1:04:21Go ahead. What I liked about the whole movie is encapsulated in this scene where there, I noticed from the slanted ceiling, the wooden slanted ceiling, because I'm in the cinema, I'm watching this. This is Neo's apartment. Of course. This is Neo's apartment. I immediately noticed that too. I had no idea. Completely. You had no idea, Tim. Nope. We had like episodes on Neo's room. Tim, how dare you? Talking about his computer and his keyboard. Until they meant, Tim, I'm disappointed. Until they say, whose room is this? I was like, it's probably Neo's room. Timothy. We spent so many hours talking. It was just weird. I was watching. Looking at it as a part of the dust in the corner. We were. Well, I was like, I was confused. Why is this guy Smith? That's what I was thinking. What's happening here? What is Smith? See, that was irrelevant at that point.

1:05:02Well, see, the sad thing is that the way I watch movies is like, okay, I'm taking it as fact. I'm waiting for the resolution to this. Oh, okay. I'm waiting for an explanation. So I'm always like, woohoo. You know, I'm waiting to see. There's gotta be something smart about this. My brain is like always turning to figure things out. That's just how I watch movies. It's just, my brain can't stop. So, so this is, this is the little micro example of what I don't like about the whole movie and what I do like about the whole movie. The fact that they were in Neo's apartment and I'm like, what time is this? Where is this? This is intriguing. This is exciting. It's Neo's apartment again. But then they're like, this is Neo's apartment. Look, this is his badge. Look, here is Neo. And then they start talking and then they talk and talk and talk and talk. And it's like,

1:05:42you could tell so much without, you know, like there's an art to visual storytelling. And I think that was, to me, that was like the little micro example of what, what the biggest problem in my opinion with this movie kind of was, I think. So that's interesting. I mean, I pretty much agree with that, but what I wanted to say was I was, like I mentioned earlier, the first 20, 30 minutes, I was intrigued very much. And the reason was because that scene specifically when they go into his room, I was thinking, this is really interesting because I agree with you. You can make a whole movie about this where, again, you're just doing something else where it's like, it's almost tongue in cheek. Like, remember we talked about how the Wachowskis did that joke in the Matrix,

1:06:25a path of Neo. Yeah. The path of Neo game. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Everything is, what's that for Tim? No, I didn't, I didn't watch, I just, I didn't watch path of Neo. I just sent you a screenshot of the, of the room. How have I never picked up, what it says on the poster? Rack. But that's, that's my Matrix name. What? That's the name of your character. Look at that. In our fan film, the Matrix fan film. If you had like, you know, access to your brain and like sort of, uh, understanding all the intricacies of your wiring, that probably goes all the way back to you. That's subtle. Somehow, somehow suddenly. Yeah. Take it in there.

1:07:05That's hilarious. Also, they were nice enough to show the entire apartment. Now we know where his bed is. In conjunction to his death. This feels weird. This is like, this is not how I lay out how I imagined it in his head, in my head. See, that's what I love about it because I think that this is an opportunity where, yeah, you have a different film where it's almost like, to connect to the path of Neo, Tim, basically the video game, path of Neo came out. And the whole game is like by the book, you know, it's going by the storyline of the Matrix movies. You're playing as Neo somewhere in the middle towards the end, it starts to get janky, funky. Yeah. Yeah. You fight giant ants, fight giant ants in a, in a world with like psychedelic,

1:07:46you know, those seventies illustrations with checkerboards and items. When you goes into a door during matrix reloaded in the path of Neo game, chasing the key maker. And he has to fight giant ants doing Kung Fu. Oh, that sounds amazing. I love that. See what I mean? Anyway, go on Jacob. And then basically at the end, it's all breaking the fourth wall, whether the Chowskis show up in the video game and they, as little pixel men, pixel men, they're sitting in front of the audience and they're saying like, you know, you probably expect some kind of epic battle. Well, we'll give you the epic battle. And then like, you know, Agent Smith is this, this giant person who attacks the city and it's all wacky and weird. And that's fun.

1:08:27I think that's fun because that's something you can do. And I think that they could have done that with this movie where it's like, just, you know, retread not for nostalgia's sake, but just for like exploring, you know, this world you created. And it's cool because then you, then you separate the two entities. Like the original film is a time, it's time and place, right? Lightning, you leave that. This is totally something else where they're just having fun. Like, it's almost like reminiscing. Like, Oh, that was, that was, that was kind of fun at the beginning. Yeah. That's how I felt. I was like, I'm, I'm, I'm into this. I'm so into this now. Cause it's not green. It's like yellow and orange. What is this? Yeah. Yeah. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for like a, a, an interesting explanation on what's happening.

1:09:07Cause that's not Agent Smith. Clearly he's a machine and he was taken from, they unplugged him or did he unplug himself? Something like that. He, he just gives him the red pill. Cause he says, cause he says, I've been thinking about stuff and I think I'm Morpheus. Yeah. Agent Smith says, I think I'm Morpheus. And she, another, another path I thought this movie could go on, which would have been also amazing is like, you know, exploring this idea that the matrix is this sort of, you know, loop simulation type thing. And we learn other things, you know, I think that's really intriguing because again, what you're doing is you're sort of,

1:09:49in a sense, poking fun at like all the seriousness, right. Of the first matrix, like sort of this, you know, grand epic storytelling, you know, hero, hero's journey. And this movie you're like, Oh yeah, you know, actually it's like a weird loop that the machines created. It's not important as it, as it, playing with that kind of, those kinds of themes, I think is a very, I feel like it did that though. I feel like it, it did, especially with the ending. I think it, that might've been, that's what I wanted to also talk to you guys about. Okay. Well, let's not freak out Phil. Let's, let's continue. So it's revealed that it's, let me try to figure, let me, let me see if I got this right. So it's revealed that this, the,

1:10:30the lady, she jumped into a video game that Mr. Anderson programmed in the matrix. Yeah. And she found this, uh, AI in the game that is supposed to be Agent Smith, but it's actually Morpheus. So she plugs him from the video game into the real matrix to then find, to help a Neo, Mr. Anderson to become Neo. Is that, was that her intention? Is that, did I get that right? Yep. Okay. Yeah, I think, I know. I think so, but yeah, cause he's Morpheus. I guess Morpheus did it in the back in, in a long time ago. So it has to be Morpheus. Yeah, I guess. Cause he programmed him to be like Morpheus.

1:11:11So obviously Morpheus knows which buttons to press. Yeah. And they run away from the agents. Basically that's the fight scene, which was very, you know what? Throughout the entire film, going to have to be honest here. Fight scenes were just not. They were shit. The fight scenes were shit. Any, any, any, anything that looked good was basically a, a, a reminiscence of an old like move. There was no zero choreography. We talked about in our spoiler cast, uh, tried prediction cast. I think this would have been an amazing opportunity to have absolutely zero fighting. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Amazing movie. Because now you're, again, you're abstracting it from the original matrix.

1:11:51The original matrix is the hero's journey. You have everything. Action, romance, you know, violence. Yeah. Yeah. Violence. The action pack. Big spiders, big spiders, you know, but this movie is just people talking. I would love that too. So I didn't know it was, yeah, they fight really badly. Let's just, yeah. Okay. So now comes the, in my opinion, the most interesting part of the movie. Okay. Drum roll. I don't remember what happens next. Thomas Anderson wakes up in his office and he's, he's a game designer. Oh yes, yes, yes. Yeah. And then the camera looks at all these closeups of these action figures, which are actual action figures from back in the day.

1:12:31Yeah. From matrix reloaded. And there's like this Morpheus. There's this. And I'm like, okay, this is a little bit on the nose, a little bit on the nose. That's what I did. But that's what I liked about it. Exactly. Me too. That was, that was a good part. Like you're figuring out what is actually happening. But I love that because I, like I said, guys, I'm sorry. I'm like an old man repeating myself, but I just love this idea of like not trivializing, but just like grounding everything into like a non supernatural, non metaphysical realm. We're just like, Oh yeah, you know, it turns out the whole matrix thing, just a dude, sorry, a dude who programmed a video game. And we're in mundane life where all the regular struggles are here.

1:13:14And I'm, I'm waiting to see what happens, but you were obviously not like you knew it. You knew it wasn't going to be. You knew it was just the matrix. Not me. I thought it was a storyline. Yep. And I was thinking to myself, this is going to be a good storyline. I was like, I'm intrigued. Let's keep going with this. You know? I don't know. Just seeing that it was like, I was like 30 minutes in because, you know, biased. I heard carrying on my comedy. Oh, okay. There's your seed of destruction there. Yeah, I had a seed. I had my own seed too. It wasn't the poop emoji, but, and I thought to myself, this is going to be a very interesting comedic take on the matrix. And I was hoping we would have like Trinity and Neo,

1:13:57sorry, Tom and, you know, Tiffany laughing, ha ha ha, you know, about things. And, you know, like the whole silly thing, you know, Keanu Reeves playing this shy gamer. And it's like, it's all really stupid. And that's what I liked about it. And I think they should just keep going with it. I wish I had your mindset. Cause when that happened, I knew, okay, this is the matrix. You too. And they're going to somehow free Phil, free, free, free me, free Neo. and it's just going to be on that story. And I'm like, um, I'm just, okay, let's just watch this. Let's just watch this. I'm see Jacob. You're like the extreme. Tim is like the extreme other side. And I'm like, just the middle. This is the matrix. It's the matrix, but I can't wait to see there might be something very smart.

1:14:39I figured you probably want that. Like I want, like, I want to see, I would just want to see a, like, there's going to be something. There's a reason he's here. There's a reason he's talking about the matrix. And I'm ready to, honestly, I was ready to see some of these characters just look at the camera and be like, I know you're watching us. Yeah. I have to say that too. I wanted something that is so, so crazy like that, you know, cause I think that that's the next step. I wanted the movie to be like much about nothing. That'd be amazing. Like for instance, like, you know, him being sad, them doing this like corporate stuff. And then in the end, it's like, it just turns wacky and weird.

1:15:21And it's just like a, sort of like a bland comedy. And you look back and you're like, remember how they made those three machines movie? And then that fourth one was really weird. Yeah. That's a cool box. They lost their mind. Right. You have like, this is the point where they lost their mind. Where Lana just completely went mental. But see, but that's, that makes it interesting. Like bookend, like who, it's that weird wild card film. Isn't that more interesting than like, here's a movie that just continues the storyline. Um, here's the funny thing. So I put three, three items that, three ideas that I liked. Okay. That were part of the movie, but were never developed, nor did they take over, which I wish would have taken more over the movie than they were. So one of them is, so in this scene, he goes and you see him program and he goes up to his boss to talk to him.

1:16:05He goes to his boss. And the boss says, you know, Warner Brothers wants us to make a sequel. Yes. I was like, this is amazing. And that was one of the things, it was like, okay, but unfortunately nothing really happened of that. It's because, and it was like, this is a cool idea. You're making a, you know, a meta commentary on all the resurrections and all the sequels and reboots. I love that. And you think that's crap or you, or you like it or whatever it is, you do something with it. Or maybe I thought, okay, they're really, they're really disliking whatever's happening to star Wars or whatever's happening. And they're like, you know what we're going to do, we're going to do something different. but then everything else just happens like the old movies and you have the old

1:16:46movie jumping at you. And it's just, it feels like it's like, that was an idea, but nothing came of it. It's just, it's just there. I didn't, I didn't get nothing across, nothing across. That was your second one. And what's the third one? Oh, that's my second one. Third one. Well, um, there's two things. Um, one is related to the end and one of them is something we'll talk about. No, no, I have three things and one of them is the one or media. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I want, I want to still explain what, like during that scene where Neo is Thomas Anderson is this hacker, not hacker. He's a game designer. He made the matrix. Everyone loves the matrix. Yeah. He made a matrix game, which is basically based on the first three movies.

1:17:27Yeah. Thank goodness we didn't see that game. It's just, we did talk about it. We don't, we did see the game when they're, when he's about to get unplugged, they have this huge projector and they're saying, look, we're playing, but that's a movie. I like that. No, no. They say, we're playing you. We're playing, you're showing you the game. I know. I know. I like that because that avoids the problem of making some weird, freaky CG thing. Oh yeah. Obviously. But I'm saying that in this universe, the movie is the game, whatever, whatever, how you want to interpret that. So, so he's, so, so Thomas Anderson's depressed. He's suicidal. He's, he drinks, he almost committed suicide. He drinks his vodka. He goes, he goes to his clean office with his friends,

1:18:08with that, with a bunch of monitors. Should have been the actor who played Choi. Would have loved that. Would have loved Choi to come back. Great. Yeah. The Dell monitors. And then they have this whole like round table discussion with all the other devs. And I love that because Christina Ricci. Our biggest. Christina Ricci is in that. What is Christina Ricci going to play? She's in there for two seconds. Yes. Yes. We all were thinking, Oh, who is she going to be? Is she the new Oracle? And she's like, we're going to make matrix four. And it's just, I, I like that so much, you know, and I love that they mentioned Warner Brothers and they talked about all these elements that they want to see in a sequel because it's successful. Yes. And then what I loved as well was when Thomas Anderson responds to him and talks about like,

1:18:53it's, he just talks about what an artist does to make these games, you know? And I liked it because it's so clearly Wachowski's or Lana Wachowski just writing her own autobiography about these movies. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't think about it that way. Yeah. Yeah. Because basically they say Keanu, you know, through Thomas Anderson, we want to make this. And this is, so the other designers are taking it from perspective of, of viewers and fans. They're like, Oh, I like the action. I want to make it more action. The bullet-time and the thing and the thing. It was a little bit too much, but I still like that. It was there. And basically Neo saying is like, this is, I am the artist and it's based on my experience. And that's,

1:19:33that's, that's what Jake was talking about. Lightning involved. They basically, you know, they're saying the same thing. It's like, we were influenced by all these things. And that's why the matrix the way it is. And you can make it any way you want, but it should be just the artist interpretation of what their inspiration is and how they feel right now. That's what their creation should be. Otherwise you're just designing stuff. That's, you know, like it's a business. It's a first, first part of the movie is that, that storyline of that, you know, okay. I don't think it was like amazingly fleshed out sort of the, the writing and stuff like that when it comes to the Thomas game designer storyline, but that to me is such a fascinating path to go down because it's like,

1:20:14absolutely. It's just so abstracted from, it's just nothing to do with the matrix. Like, sort of like, Hey, let's take this alternate route. Just totally. Yeah. Left, you know, left, left turn. And like, and some people said that they hated the montage guy, uh, Thomas Anderson. Yeah. Yeah. He just, his life is based on it. It's like, sorry, it's based on his life. You know, yes. Him looking at Tiffany in the cafe. Oh man, man. That's so funny. I like that. It's so silly. Me too. I love that. I loved seeing that. I love that. And I love that they called her Tiffany. It was so close to Stephanie. It's great. Remember that? Stephanie. Stephanie. Neo. Live. Live. But it's like so funny when you think about like that and you think of like Morpheus in the

1:20:55caves of Zion. Whoa. Exactly. I love this. It's so good that it's so different. It's so small. I wanted to mention earlier that like we can break this movie down to two, I think, sections. One is this like conceptual beginning, right? Yeah. Where we didn't know was, you know, the storyline and stuff like that. And then. In my opinion, that's the interesting part. Yes. And the second part is the, here we go, you know, by the book, it's actually the real matrix and everything is real and let's keep going. There's a bad guy. He's doing bad things to humans. We got a free. So what did you guys think about that? Portion. The second portion. I liked it more.

1:21:36I think. I was like on rails, you know, kind of like pay, paying attention to kind of like sometimes dozing off in my brain of like when it got boring, when it's like, like a boring action scene, they start talking. I'm like, okay. Yeah. The boring action scene. That's, that's a, that's a given. You know, that's, that's a, for some reason, there's like zombie suicide people jumping off buildings. I was just waiting for it to end so I could see what happens next. That too. Yeah. That does a lot of that. There's a lot of that. Yeah. So, so funny. It's like a video game cut scene. As far as the flashbacks, as far as the flashbacks, the footage is concerned. Yes. The first time we saw one, I think was when he talks to his boss in his office. Yeah. C Smith. And he goes, have you ever stared at it?

1:22:16And then I saw that clip, that flash. I'm sorry to say this, but my heart skipped a beat. I was like, I was like, this is going to be, something's going to come from this. This is going to, this is something, you know, something's happening at the end of the movie. Something crazy. Something's going to crash. You know what I mean? Like I, I thought that like the, I thought that at the end of the film, like the film was going to break or something like that. You know? And it's like completely like, Spoilers. Nothing. Nothing. There's no mergent. I thought like maybe he'll, this is, but that's what I, I love this so much. He'll move into the Matrix cinematography and like he'll transport and like, that would be amazing. Like he visits two worlds, like something,

1:22:56except it just felt like, you know, like you were talking about bottle episodes when, when in, in, in, yeah, yeah, yeah. In TV shows where they use flashbacks just to save on time. Why, why, why did I keep thinking like, I don't understand. I don't, so here's my opinion. After that whole beginning, um, portion of the movie. Yeah. The montage. That's where I wouldn't say I got sad in a sense of like, just like I was thinking like, okay, so we're going to do this, you know? And then all the, like you said, Tim, you're wondering what's happening in the plot. Yeah. What I'm wondering, spinning my head constantly, it's like, what really is the motivation behind this movie? And like, I want to know really deep down.

1:23:36What's the sort of, what's the communication between Lana and us, the audience, because I do respect her as a filmmaker. Yeah. So I'm trying to understand what is she trying to tell us, you know? And that's what to me is a very interesting notion because it can be anything. It could be that her commentary is maybe doing this traditional story was her way of just being like, you know what? I'm going to give the fans what they want. A traditional classic story. Maybe that's that. Maybe it's B. Maybe she's just, they bugged her too much to make the movie. She's like, I'll make this, you know, maybe it's C something else. Maybe it's just like, maybe like you said, Phil, maybe she wanted to continue the matrix story.

1:24:17And those are questions that are interesting to me because by itself, without any sort of motivation, doesn't mean anything to me. That's a thought that ran into my head. When they, when they mentioned, you know, Warner Brothers wants us to do another sequel. One of my motivations, what the scenario I made in my head and you feel you did a great interview. So maybe you can contest my thought, which after the movie was done, I was like, that's, that's not it. But I was thinking like Warner Brothers approached Alana and Lillian said, Hey, matrix is really popular right now. Y2K, 2000s, 999. It's like super hip with the kids. You know, everyone's doing these reboots. Can we do a matrix one? It'll be good, you know, financially. And they said, can we have someone make it?

1:24:58And you just give us the license. And they said, no, obviously. Oh, could be. And they said, actually, they said, Lana said, yes. Lana said that every year they would ask. That's what I want to say, Phil. Yes. Proper years. Because they maybe hold the rights. So they can't do nothing without their approval. My, my, in my, in my head. Right. And then one day they were like, Oh, you know, we, we got to do this. And, and Lana said, okay, if you let me do it and I can do whatever I want, then yeah, let's make another matrix. So Warner Brothers said, okay, you do whatever you want. I have an answer to that. Okay. Apparently. Well, Lana's dad and mom died in 2019.

1:25:39Okay. Like close to the same time. And both of them were. While they were making it or? No, no, no. Before. Oh, sorry. Okay. Before. And another person in, like a really good friend of theirs. So at the same time, same year. Some tragedy. And they, they all felt really like lots of grief is going on personally. And then Lana just thought to herself, well, I mean like all these people that I love are dead. So I would, it wouldn't be bad if I could just get Trinity and Neo back to life. Oh, see, that's interesting. These are the answers I want. Okay. So, so yeah, that's a, so then she started thinking about a story from Adrian. Okay.

1:26:20How to resurrect. That makes a lot more sense. So what's the scenario that Neo and Trinity would be resurrected? So that's what, that was also one of the question I had on watching the film is that this is a love story really between. Yeah. Um, Trinity and Neo. Right. And I was wondering, and I think you answered my question, Phil is like, again, you know, is there something behind this? It's personal. And it looks like there is. Yeah. Which is interesting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. That's the reason there's Matrix Resurrections. Makes more sense. That makes sense. Definitely the, where it's heading the movie and how it ends. That makes completely sense because a lot of the stuff we're talking about, like the meta commentary and all these things kind of don't, don't matter at the end with the,

1:27:00with the main structure of the stories. It's kind of like flavor going on. Um, yeah. What happens next? Well, since Jake is not, he's not in the, on the camera right now. So I will say that there's some interesting parts when Thomas Anderson is still the sad, depressed software designer, game creator. You probably didn't know this because you don't watch the behind the scenes as much as I do, but some of the people in the office were people who worked on the special effects and people who worked on, uh, some of the practical effects on the Matrix.

1:27:42They were in there. They were acting in the movie. Nice. In closeups, they were speaking to, to Thomas Anderson. I love that. I was like, this is, this is like, you know, breaking the fourth wall in a crazy way. That's pretty cool. And then, and I want to, I want to mention, we didn't mention that Thomas Anderson, Jake's almost here. We didn't mention that Thomas Anderson basically sees Tiffany at the cafe a lot of times, right? Right. Cafe 80s. Yeah. At the, it's called, what was it called? It's called the Simulat. Oh, it's a coffee shop. I thought it was a noodle shop. Oh no, he, there's also, I guess it's a coffee and noodle shop. I love that scene. I love that shop eating noodles,

1:28:23you know, really good noodles. Yeah. He's walking out. I thought it was the same place. It's no different place. Really? He's eating his really good noodles. The Simulacrum coffee place, Simulat. I think it's part of the, Simulat. They work in? Simulat. Maybe? I don't know. Who knows? Yeah. And I wanted to say, you guys know Tiffany's husband, right? The actor? Yes, yes. Phil. Yes. He was, Chad. Chad, but I don't know who that is. Chad Stahelski. He used to be Neo's stunt double for Matrix 1, 2, and 3. Oh, that's funny. And he's the director of John Wick. That's right. Oh, really? That's the guy. Okay. Yeah. No, I had no idea. He was the best. Yes. Yes. John Gata. Yes.

1:29:03John Gata was there. Was he? That was John Gata. Yes. John Gata was in there? Where? Yep. bullet-time. He was towards the, I think he was, oh, he was in the company. He was in the video. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't recognize him. I'm like, I saw one guy. He must look very different because I didn't know. But I'm like, where's John Gata? Where is he? He should be here. I did. I missed him. I missed him. There was like four people like, we're like talking to Tom. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like. I loved it. Like, honestly, like that stuff. This was, this showed so much promise. I was so ready to see. Like, but see, it's like having fun. And I think like that notion of having fun and playing around with it. That's what separates it. And in my opinion, has the potential to be an interesting movie down the road.

1:29:44That means five years from now, 10 years from now, maybe you'll be sitting around saying, you know what? Let's pop that on. That's how it was an interesting movie that came out. That to me is way more interesting than for instance, these situations we found ourselves in as adults, you know, Star Wars episode seven. Yeah. Yeah. The hype type. Seven, eight. Everyone's hyping over the. Yeah. It's like, it's here after 20 years. Oh my God. Yeah. Finally here. And then, and then what happens is. Forgotten. It's like, you know, just gone. Just gone. Just weird. Has anyone heard people tell my Star Wars episode? I haven't.

1:30:25And so that's, that's interesting to me. And he also goes to his, let's just get, let's just get this over with. He goes to, he goes to his psychiatrist. No, psychologist. Psychologist. Yeah. Remember? And then he keeps saying like, I keep getting flashbacks. And I thought that's where, that's what the purpose of those. That was that probably. That was that. He's just getting his memory back from his previous life. Oh, because you guys are already figured out. He's major. Superhero Neo. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I loved the dichotomy of that. I love, I love his little cups. He was drinking coffee with little tiny cups. I wanted to say, I love the. You mean the, the simulat? Simulat. Simulat. The cups there?

1:31:05There was no, no, just anywhere. He was just always drinking these tiny little, you know, cups. So I love the dichotomy between those, the old footage, how like big, epic adventure science fiction. that's what I'm talking about, Phil. And this small, they're in a coffee shop and something's going on. I like that. Anyway, let's keep going. Yeah. So, so the rest of the movies, they actually get Neo out of this loop that he's in, which is making video games and being like, I have these dreams and I feel like crap all the time. Just take pills. They should be sad. Richard. Yeah. Tricked him and basically put him back in. Yeah. And he falls. Yeah. And then the,

1:31:45his, what's his face is, uh, um, the analyst. Residual self image. Analyst. Analyst. Yeah. He's the one like always helping him get back and like regain. Yeah. Yeah. And you mean always helping him stay, stay. We are from the perspective of Neo, you know, he's using his mind with these flashbacks, but it's, and, and, and his, uh, therapist, you know, says those are episodes. Also weird that they changed the name. Uh, what's her name, Phil? The blue haired character. Bugs. Yeah. It's weird that they changed the name. It used to be residual self image. RSI. They changed it to DSI. I guess. Oh yeah. Self image. I don't know why they changed that. I didn't even catch that. I was like, was it DSI? No. I was thinking that. Yeah. Cause they're talking to the old man. Remember? Old man. Yes.

1:32:25Yeah. Everyone sees them differently. They put a different skin. You know, they went to the file menu. True skin. Yep. Yep. Like in Minecraft, they've uploaded a JPEG. A JPEG for the new skin. Just an old man looking weird. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. And anyway, they, so they set that up. They have Netflixius there. Yep. They have the old chairs. They're in this old theater and they're like, we try to make it look a little bit like the first movie. So you can remember. The first game. So you can get used to it. The first game. Sorry. It's so strange. So you can remember. And they're showing the projection of the first movie, which I thought was so interesting to see. In my opinion, I just. Also, guys, do you think that this paradigm or,

1:33:06sorry, parallel of game is maybe something a little older now? I mean, that's something I think that maybe is more like our generation or maybe even older, where it's like, you know, you look at, for instance, video games played with that idea too. Like Melle Gasol, like, you know, sort of like everything's a video game. Yeah. Yeah. Things like that. I think that's a little bit of an older concept now. I don't think it's necessarily hip with the boys. No, I did definitely feel that. You know, it's funny you mentioned it, but I definitely felt like, ah, the game, like the game within the game. Matrix within the game. Like the movie Michael Douglas. The game. Matrix within Matrix. The game. It's a game. You can, you know, this crazy program, he can program a game that's like a simulation. Was it the Path of Neo game? It's a bit of an old school. Because remember when we were theorizing,

1:33:47we're saying, we're thinking he's an actor and the movie Matrix is a movie that exists. So I think I would maybe for me to not feel so awkward if they were referencing a movie that the Matrix was a movie instead of a game. Then you can't have that weird pulling Morpheus out of the game, obviously. Who cares? Yeah. Who cares about that? Just program a Morpheus in there. Just get rid of that whole thing. I think it would have worked a lot better as a movie if it existed as a movie because it was a movie. And having the shots of the movie and they're talking about a game and they're always talking about sequels. It felt a little old school. What was the game? It looked like an open world game, but it wasn't because they, because it was exactly. It's a tricky thing because they took the creative liberty where they're basically asking you as the audience to suspend your disbelief.

1:34:31Where you're watching it and you have to yourself kind of conceptualize and say, oh, okay, don't think about the specifics. Yeah. It's a concept. It's not very clear. It's very, very risky because in this sense, you either buy it or you don't. Yeah. So I do agree. That was a bit of a weird choice. I think you would buy it. And it does feel weird. You know, it's like, it's like free guy came out and there's just like, like I think kids, yeah, definitely are far beyond that. Like, oh, what? That's a video game? Oh my goodness. I think it's old school. Yeah. I said that about seven times now, but yeah. I do agree. I completely agree. Okay. We got Phil. So Phil's back. I wanted to say, um, sort of like, just kind of like,

1:35:12the fucking donut between his head and the headphones. To recap the plot. It's my glove. Essentially. Yes. Everything keeps going like the Matrix 3 after the Matrix 3 finished. Yes. And I need to say one thing, by the way, and you'll, Phil will like this. Phil will be like. I won't like this. I won't like this. No, no, Phil will like this. I'm just saying, cause it was an interesting feeling I didn't expect to feel, which is weird. Oh. That when, uh, they fly, uh, through the machine city, I think. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or they're about to go free or something. You see the cylinders. Well, they take them out, right? And it's the same as Matrix 1. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. We're going through the machine city and we're seeing it with pods and we're seeing Mio being taken away by this machine bug.

1:35:54By a machine bug. Yeah. Yes. And you know, it was funny. The weirdest feeling like happened. I didn't have any control about it. Bizarre feeling. It felt like the feeling I had in 2003 watching the Matrix. Wow. It was really bizarre because, you know, when you're a kid, I was so invested in the Matrix and you want, you want to like know what's going to happen next. You know, what's happening? Like, you don't think about it in terms of filmmakers. You don't think about it in terms of like solid. This is the story. This is fact. You're immersed. 100%. Immersed. Yeah. And so I was like, what's happening? You know, what's going to happen in this machine city? And that feeling was the same thing when they flew over the machine city. I felt like, oh, that was like the split second. It felt like I was continuation of old movies.

1:36:37I was, I was pretty, I was kind of excited when I watched it. Cause I watched it on a big screen with the lightning on these cylinders, you know, the electricity. And there's a bug holding meal and they're singing. I can show you the world. Yeah. See, this is the weird part where I accept this because I know this is the continuation of what the matrix is going to continue with. Like that's the world. Machines and humans have to come together. That's the whole point. It's like Metropolis, the old film, you know, without the, you know, the brain and the body cannot exist without the heart. And Neo is the heart. And you know, the machines are the body and the humans are the brain and, or the opposite the other way around. And so like conceptually, that's what made me happy because we're continuing.

1:37:17It's not, you know, if this was the Warner brothers without the Wachowski version, it would be, the machines are back. Phil, did you not ever feel like, like a sort of a, like in a sense, like low bar, you know what I mean? In a sense of like, like, oh, we're continuing, but it's like, then you, my questions that pop into my head are like, why are we continuing? Is this story so good? We should continue it. Should we even, why should we even see any, any story about this? Why can't, for instance, when a movie ends, like the matrix three, let people decide what they want to decide what happens after. You know, these are the kinds of questions I have. And so then when I wonder, so immediately when you're watching that, that, that scene. Yeah.

1:37:58Cause I don't have those questions or thoughts until a good amount of time where I'm seeing where this is going and going. Oh, cause to me it feels so like, you know, in a sense, like looking at it again, from a perspective of like, let's say that creative perspective. So making this film, it's a bit arbitrary. Like why continue off of something you made? And especially the sequels, right? Two and three were arguably, not so successful, not financially, but sort of like execution wise. So why, you know, that, those are the kinds of questions I have. Oh, I, from that perspective, I don't usually like to look at it from the perspective of the artists. I, you know, I, I don't,

1:38:38I don't usually think, I did think about it when we were talking about the wonder brothers, but I think for the rest of it, I didn't, but I, I do like what you, you know, when we started, you explained how matrix three ended and you said machines working together. I completely forgot about that. So I thought this was a no, no novel thing that they added here because later on, they're basically talking about that. You know, it's a new world. The machines, you know, are working with humans. And I thought that was, that was one of the cool ideas that I liked about the movie that didn't kind of go anywhere except set some stuff up because I like the idea that it's not anymore. Yeah. So it's more machines, bad humans, good. It's more like, you know, good ideas and bad ideas. And there's humans that are on the side of good ideas and machines on the side of good ideas.

1:39:19And there's, you know, humans and machines on the, on the bad ideas. It's, it's about ideology. You know, technology is not bad. It's what you do with it and all that kind of stuff. And I was like, that's a fresh mind because, you know, when the matrix one came out, it's like machines are bad. They are cold and they just want to use it for, for energy. And that's why we must rage against the machine, you know? Yeah. Exactly. And then this is more like, okay, this is certainly fresh though, because we learned all about this stuff. I completely forgot about all that stuff. Yeah. And the matrix, there was also a bunch of stuff that they conceptually thought about. And that was actually part of the, a lot of the thematics of the side of the third movies. That's what I loved. Yeah. That's what I loved to see continue because. But it didn't go anywhere. From all the, from all the sequels and reboots I've been seeing,

1:40:00it's like, let's ignore the, the stuff that wasn't successful. Yeah. Yeah. This is like a proper, you know, like if, like I said, if Warner brothers made this, it would be like, the machines are back and they're bad. But this is what happens. We have to, we have to destroy the matrix. In the end. In the end. There's still a bad machine. Well, I'm not there yet. I liked it now. Oh, okay. You mean at that point. It's like, yeah, this, this is like, this point was nice. This point. I mean, it was a little cheesy, but I'm like, but that's, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? So butterfly. But then what happens is the next part, if we, if I may go to this section, which I think is the next part. Older Neo in the ship. Yeah. What? Oh yeah. Old man with a second chin. Bugs, Bugs shows. That had a bit of a new ship.

1:40:42Alien, aliens vibes. Listen, there's a kicker that we didn't mention. What? Is that it's not 20 years later. It's 60 years later. That's the only, the only reason for that is so Wachowski can put old makeup on Niobe and it sucks. That's my next part. I want to say, of all the cast members and like characters, that we get Niobe. And I wanted to say, what do you guys think about that? We get Niobe. Nothing against the actress or the character. And I'm just saying that it's like, I really was confused. Of all the people. I was really confused. Like, what's the point of that? What did it add to the story? It felt like a really weird, like when you're watching the movie, you know that the Hobbit effect. I mean, I think listeners will know that we have quite,

1:41:23quite some opinions about those movies. Yeah. At least. Who knows? You know, I forgot about them now, but I wanted to say that, uh, you know, that bizarre, like surreal moment, like watching the movie at 40 frames a second. Oh yeah. That's what it felt like when I was in the Obey show. I'm like, where, you know, where are we? Like, what is happening here? Like, why is Niobe with old makeup talking to us in this fake old woman voice? But it has explanations. It has 60 years later and they put these lights up there. So it looks like daylight. So they have some kind of natural, a natural look. So it's not disgusting. Why? What is the purpose? Why cause yourself this problem of having this really weird, like it's just,

1:42:04I was just getting cloud Atlas vibes. I don't understand. This is what I don't understand. And they're just weird. What do you understand? I'm just, I'm just hearing what you guys are saying. And it's so weird hearing. It completely took me out. It was just, it was just so weird. I don't like, for me, it was just like, yeah, this is the continuation of, this is the logical thing. Again, it's arbitrary because for instance, it can be anything. Like sort of Morpheus being a statue man of his old self. I don't remember when he, What's the difference between 20 and 60 years? Because he died and he was the prophet, the Pope of the Zion. He was, he was the president of Zion. The president of Zion. P-O-Z, they call them the pause. Yeah. I want to say that it's arbitrary because it could be anything. So that means it doesn't mean that old Niobe,

1:42:45it could be old Lawrence Fishman if he had a contract signed, right? It could be, I mean, they could have done that. It could be just young Niobe in her normal age. Say that the machines destroyed all of us. I think, I think they, I think they wanted to have someone who wasn't one of our big characters. Like this, just the one person left over. I'm not worried about that's Niobe. It's completely fine. That's a Niobe. It makes sense. She became the leader. Who gives a shit? It's just, why is she an old makeup? Fine. I mean, don't ask me. I thought the makeup was acceptable. Like I thought it's better than usual. It's just her voice that sounds too young. Why, why go the extra step for that? It's about the,

1:43:26the context and like, why this particular thing? Cause that's what I'm trying to argue is saying that it could be anything. Why this, you know, what, like, why are there 30 minutes of the movie? I'm spending this new Zion 2.0. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. But the whole point was like the machines working to get like, but it doesn't lead anywhere. Unfortunately. I mean, it's just, I mean, that's true. That's also true. That's also true. In the end, there's a bad machine because it's bad. Like it's, and, and, and the other thing is like, you know, they saying there's good machines, but we have butterflies flying and helping them. It's, I didn't like the butterfly design, but I liked that we were so correct on our podcast. And we said, drama country comes in as a little bug.

1:44:07And there's a little, what was it? Dove, uh, yeah, yeah. But you know, guys, what I realized in our predictions is that we were pretty much right. We basically said it can be a funky stuff or be non funky. And it was non funky. Overall, I would say there's glimpses of things. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, I think it's just funny because like, I enjoyed seeing how Zion or like the real world looks like after 60 years, but it's, it's, it's so, but it has nothing to do with the film. I get it. I get it. it's even, but if I'm thinking about right now out loud, it's so bizarre because it's like, it's this in between level of like, okay,

1:44:47in between, it's new, it's new cinematography. We're looking from a different angle. Yet everyone's doing the weird where hackers were dressed like hobos in the real world and were dressed like cool, like sexy leather men in the matrix. I'm like, why are these paradigms still in play? Yes. What is, what is, what is the point of this? If we're moving somewhere new, why are we so stuck in this old thing? That we've all changed the audience and the creators. Everything has changed. Time has passed on. It's been 20 years. There's billions of things that have changed. So you, like you said, Tim, I agree with you. You can't just stick to the same paradigms. And if you do, it leads me to believe, I don't think Lana Wachowski is a dumb person.

1:45:28I think that she's really smart. And so I'm guessing there's a reason behind that. I would love to know what it is. Well, I was waiting for that for sure. Yeah. My only point is that, my only point is that, if you compared it to the Hobbit, right? Oh, we're back in back again, but it's not the same. It's not, it's weird. It's, it's, it's, it's just, it's bizarre. It's like middle of the road. It's 48. Yeah. But in that case, that's like the prequel, right? It takes place before Lord of the Rings. And it's supposed to be, you know, it's supposed to, yeah. Wait, wait, wait, what do you mean? Like, I'm just saying that I can't compare things. I.O., not Zion. I.O.

1:46:08You know, it's the same feeling, isn't it? I mean, Hobbit 20 years later, this 20 years later. I see what Jacob is saying. You're, you're arriving at a place where you seek, instead of, re-watching the movie and getting the exact same feeling. You're, you're watching it, something, you're returning somewhere. And it's this bizarre fearing of like uncanny value. 60 years later. I know, but again, it's arbitrary. I'm just saying it's arbitrary because I need, there needs to be some sort of reason behind that in, I don't know. I'm just saying that I, like you could, you could say like about 60 years later, you'd be like, Hey, but it's 300 days later. Okay. You know, like we talked about like being immersed and following the story. I like, I, I was not immersed in this movie at all. All I kept thinking was like,

1:46:50what's going on? And everyone leaving at one point, Phil and Jake both almost left. And I was so scared. I'll be alone on this, on this podcast. But I like, I, I, okay, this is where I just don't understand what we're, what were we arguing about? Cause I don't even know. I will agree with you. I think we lost our argument. Cause I will agree with you that Niobe, the whole IO thing was a curious thing to see, just to see the development of human cyborg relations. And what happens after the war, because all we know is machines, bad humans, good. We give them hell before we do. For Zion.

1:47:30And now we can see the aftermath of that. Right. And I was pleasantly interested at seeing that, but you're right on a context of, this is a story you're telling. It makes no sense. I don't know why Niobe was there. She's just there to stop them from going to help. What did you learn? That's basically it. Break down. What did you learn? So, so they live in the new world. They have their sky. Niobe's the leader. I learned that there's more promise that both machines and humans will come to a better future. But there's the promise. What's the world? Like there's, there's these butterflies and these, these things, the manta rays floating around and they're talking, but, and they're hugging each other, but that's it. But here's what I want to say. Exactly. I want to say you need,

1:48:11what do you need? Explore. Well, you need a deeper explanation of this concept. If you're going to take it further, for instance, when they're on that ship, right? From, what's her name? The blue haired. Bugs. Thank you. Bugs Bunny. When they're on the ship, he's like, whoa, let me ask about these machines. Right? Yeah. Now also, there isn't a clear, like, good, bad. I was, I was excited to see that because like, you're not, but that's great. You're done. You explored the whole thing. I mean, that's also true. That's also true. You're absolutely right. By the way, I also wanted to say that Keanu Reeves. You're absolutely right. In the context of the story that's being told, like, I, we really didn't have to go. They just had someone to help him out, get Neo and Trinity out. But other than that,

1:48:52it didn't play. I did appreciate hearing what happened to Morpheus. I'm glad he was president. I'm not glad. That, that means the charlatan, he shouldn't, he should stay away from power. That's right. Yeah. Charlatan. And, uh, don't give Morpheus no power. So it just felt like a fever dream a little bit. Like you're seeing clips from the old movies and you're watching the new one and it's like 60 years past. Wow. I feel like it could be super crazier than this. So listen. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I want to say, because if you really boil it down to what this movie, is at the end, it's a rescue operation of Trinity. That's the whole story. Yes. And again, it's the parallel, right? Oh, Neo, Tiffy, Morpheus,

1:49:32you know, hardbacks and stuff like that. But then again, it's the whole love story we talked about, which is the whole point of the movie. At the end of the film, I was thinking to myself, you know, the movie should have just been Neo finding Trinity in this cafe and them getting out of the Matrix together. Together by themselves, figuring it out. Scooby-Doo this shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think, it's fine. Here's the thing. My third point, my third idea that I liked in this movie that basically was just briefly shown at the end is like, we talked about this, one of our predictions, we were like, okay, so, you know, Lana and Lily changed genders. and we were thinking, maybe the perspective they're going to say,

1:50:14talk about is this, you know, now from a woman's perspective of how they see, you know, we, we, we talked about one of the criticism is of the first movie when we were watching it. It basically, you know, Neo is this prophet, this, this man who saved everyone. And even though Trinity is doing all the work, she takes the classic, you know, support role of a traditional gender role of a woman. We did talk about that on our podcast. And maybe you thought, okay, maybe they're going to switch it out and say, you know what? We, you know, maybe we thought like this and we think this is wrong and we're going to do it from perspective, which kind of was by the end, you're like, okay, you know what? It's not about just Neo. Trinity is the important one as well. And maybe she's the more important one and she's the driver of this. And this is kind of how it ends up with them.

1:50:55But it's just happens in the end. It's, it's like, it's not really driving the story. It's not, it's not giving me a unique perspective. It's like, okay, Trinity can fly now. Well, this is what I wanted to get at towards the end when we get to the culmination of everything. Number one is let's just, for the record, I was teeter tottering behind all these scenes in all these scenes thinking like, Ooh, yes, maybe yes. Now, you know, right. The scene with fricking, you know, Patrick Harris and bullet-time. Can you please explain to me like why it looks like a TV show? Well, not just that, but like what's happening. I don't know. That's again, that's, I don't understand. I'm wondering what the,

1:51:35what's happening. This is a, this is like as traditional as you can get of a villain. Yeah. Villains. Yes. Explaining his, Oh yes. Explaining his entire history. It's not, it's not funny enough. It's not extreme enough. It's not, it's not threatening. Clever enough. It's not threatening. So again, it always comes back to the question of what, like, what is it? Like, what is it? It's like, you know, I would like to know, you know, that, that to me, because again, like I'm basing in the context of understanding. I mean, you, you know what he talked about, right? Yeah. I understand that. The storyline. I'm just saying like, Oh, like, well, like let's, if we can just for a second brief. So if I, if I knew, if I remember, just said there was the perfect world, but unfortunately people didn't like it.

1:52:17So they stopped being disconnected. So the matrix suits were worried. They're not producing enough energy for their, for their, for their cities, for their, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he jumped on the idea of like, let me, I have this idea because I was studying humans of, I'm going to make this matrix where, where Neo and Trinity have to exist. And, and they have this equilibrium. They hold everyone inside the matrix. Like Hancock. Because that's like produces like the, the reset, the reboot. Yes. They're like the, it's like Hancock. Remember Hancock? The 2004 classic, but, but they, but if they don't exist, whatever,

1:52:57people don't like the matrix. So you have to have Neo and Trinity somewhere there, but they can't like, they keep them in limbo. Yeah. And then, and this is how people stay in the matrix and they produce enough energy. And he's like, he's, he's a hero to the matrix. Basically, it's like a bit of a joke. Cause he's supposed to be like the promoted guy within the machine. World. Yes. Like the architect. He replaced. Yeah. He replaced the architect. I said that. Is the, Oh, you did. It's like the word old school. Old school. The word old school. That's like now 10, 11 times. Basically he was, you know, the, the traditional man who was all about, you know, logic and. Yes. Oh yes. This, this whole, like humans are driven by emotions,

1:53:37not by logic. Interesting argument. Oh, I should have wrote that out. Interesting thought. Yeah. That was an interesting, something I've been thinking about a lot, you know, like how humans like intuition and actual, like, you know, subjective thinking and objective, what is science, what is art and all this stuff. But it's just, it boils down into a villain talking about this for a second. And then it goes away. That's what I emotion. I will, I will take humans emotions and keep them in the matrix. Ma ha ha. But then it's a joke because he's like, see, I was promoting people love me in the machine city. Like I'm a, I'm a cool businessman. Is this supposed to be a metaphor for like a business, like a Hollywood businessman is, is it? See Tim, if it is though, it to me, it just seems like it's a way too subtle or like, I just doesn't feel super intentional.

1:54:18I don't know how to describe it. It's really weird. Yeah. It does happen. Yeah. It's weird. I love the idea. I don't know. I don't know. And then Smith is a good guy as well. And then the Meroingian happens. Okay. Can somebody describe what he's, he's talking about video games and sequels and what the hell is he talking about? I, I was too distracted by his face. So what is he talking about? I know you're, you were distracted. I wasn't cause I really liked the matrix world and I always wanted to hear more about the development of what the world's about. So someone mentioned, was it Sati that mentioned that there was a purge at some point?

1:55:00They were deleting like old programs. Yeah. They deleted, they deleted all those old programs, made a new, they made an upgraded matrix, which is why, in my opinion, justifies kind of the natural lighting, the more soft light. It's not so oppressive. So all that old school stuff is gone. The Oracle's dead because they erased her. Why is Smith still alive? Why is the Smith program? Oh, geez. Okay. I don't know about that. Yeah. Is that explained or not? Okay. So my theory, some part of, Phil's groaning so bad. It's hilarious. No, my theory is like, I forgot about Smith. The whole Smith thing is like this, this like, you know, just never ending symbiosis mumbo jumbo between him and Neo.

1:55:40And I'm guessing that they just like, they wrote him in to be like sort of a funny character where he's just joking around. And in the end he's like, I think so. Neo. See, not everyone's bad. She's good. So, some weird expectations. You thought Smith is going to be- Honest, this is the worst part for me, I think. I don't know. Like, I remember when I was like, yeah, Smith the ape. I love it. It all boils down to Smith the ape in A Matrix Revolutions. Remember that? You guys were so sick of hearing me. Oh yeah, that's right. You guys were talking about, you know, what was that? Not existentialism, but not nihilism. I don't remember. Predetermined. Predeterminism. Fatalism and all that stuff. And all this. And then it all boils down to Smith.

1:56:20Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, that's awesome. Just that simple thing. After all this stuff. And in this movie, it's like Smith's back. And I'm like, no. Too much Smith? He's dead. He's dead. Get out. You are dead. Stay dead. By the way, that was supposed to be Hugo Weaving. That was supposed to be Hugo Weaving. He got it or something or what? He was doing a play. So they said, we're shooting at this time. He's doing a play at this time. We have to get someone else. That's interesting. But, because like, this is, you know, like, that's the, like the world is, so basically Trinity and Neo are played by the original actors. Yet for everyone else, they look completely different.

1:57:01So then you have Smith who's played by a different actor, yet they don't recognize him. It just gets like really like with the rules of the Matrix. It just gets all. I mean, wait, if I understand correctly, if it was Hugo Weaving. So, so the explanation why Smith exists, because he's tied to Neo, and if Neo has to exist, Smith has to exist. So that's why they couldn't purge him. Cause he's like a menace, honestly. I don't know why you would ever as Matrix, keep that in your system. Like that guy caused so much trouble. Delete. Like, just take him to trash. I know. I know. Honestly, I thought. The marriage vintage didn't even do much. He just had a nightclub and stuff. He had a little. They didn't lead him. They kept him. The marriage vintage was a trafficker of information. Remember? What's that? In the old Matrix. He was a trafficker of information. Oh, he was important. I know, but come on.

1:57:41Like, you know, there's a couple of black market pockets here and there. Honestly, like I, I knew that, um, Lambert, his last name is Lambert. That's what I remember. Uh, the actor who plays Mary Vintran. Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably. Christopher, Lambert Wilson. There we go. Lambert Wilson was supposed to, I knew that he was going to be in the movie because I saw his credit in there. And I thought we're going to get the same, you know, we're going to get a wonderful scene of the Frenchman being a French, the Frenchman, right? Giving some orgasmic kicks people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of which, when they went into that Paris hotel, there was a statue of the Merovingian. Did you notice that? I saw that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was great. Um, and I thought, yeah, he was going to do something like that. It was going to be like, let's see what he's up to after 60 years,

1:58:22you know, caveman. What was, what was he talking about? What was hobo caveman talking about? I want to get the transcript. All right. Well, he just said sequel. Yeah. All those guys from matrix reloaded come back, right? The, his henchmen. But they're hobo henchmen. Okay. But they're hobos because they, apparently they survived the purge. They got somehow slimed their way out. And I was like, Oh God. And yeah. And he's just a raving lunatic. He's just like, you, you, you know, like I, I'm assuming he's, he's thinking about how his portrayal was in the matrix reloaded. You cut out. I think you have that noise canceling. He was angry. I'm assuming his portrayal was like,

1:59:02I understand. He didn't like how he was portrayed in the game. In matrix reloaded the game. Yeah. The fuck. What are you talking about? The actor or the character, the character, he was yelling at Nio. He was yelling at Nilo. Nilo. Nilo. The rap. Nilo. Nilo for Neil. That's a bit meta. Wait, but he's in the matrix. He's a real computer program in the matrix, but he's angry at Nio, the fake memory. Nio who made. Yeah. Yeah. Game for portraying a belly. I guess to him, he's one. It's one of the same. Oh, of course. Yeah. Because he's in the matrix. Yeah. Yeah. So for him, it's like the world knows him.

1:59:44He's angry. He's yelling, you stole my life. Yes. Oh, can you read? You have some lyrics? Lyrics. You have some transcripts. I'm watching it right now. I'm playing it. Oh, you have the, of course. He looks like a, like big bird. I, I was disappointed and cringed. I'm sorry. Like, honestly, like I agree with you guys where the cinematography at this point, like at the next half of this film. Yeah. I was just like, there has to be some, like I was hoping they'd get back to the, I thought there were going to be some kind of subtle way of them coming back to the same cinematography of the old matrix films using more long lenses. Um, chain. I thought it was going to start create like the way it started.

2:00:28But then when we got to the end, it would be, have some semblance of the original film. Like, yeah. Yeah. So what, what about at the end? Let's talk about. Yeah. Yeah. So they get Trinity out. Yes. These special pods with this whole together. Yeah. They get, there's like a whole operation. Man and machine working together. Yeah. Like a lot of stuff happening and they ended up secret operation to get Trinity out. And in the lore, in the lore, there was that one little part where they said machines are now fighting each other. Oh yeah. When, when, when, when old Niobe is talking about, they're like, there's like machines with red lights and machines with blue lights fighting. Mm-hmm. Red versus blue. a la Christopher Nolan's reversey film or whatever. A la,

2:01:08Oh yeah. Reverso. Tenet. Reverso, the movie. Reverso. Okay. So Steve Ballmer. Reverso. Reverso. What I want to say is they, they have this elaborate scheme to get her out. And like, you know, it's a whole mission impossible thing where it's like, they need to like swap her, put her mind into, you know, put her into the real world. And they do this mind swap. Yeah. They do the magic swap. Instead of the red pool. Completely pointless. And basically, yeah. And basically it comes down to like, you know, Neo. Because Neo loves her. You know? Yeah. Neo loves her. And he's like, I would like to go to the Mr. Not Architect. Yeah. Analyst. Analyst. And he's like, I'm going to ask him. By the way,

2:01:48I want to say Keanu Reeves did a great job of playing Neo because he did, tapped into the character of Neo perfectly. Neo just asks questions. Remember we, Yeah. It's great. We learned this from our Matrix podcast, which we're on right now. He just is like, Whoa, this machine. So answer me this. Anytime he's confused, it's, it's good acting. Like there's a scene where Morpheus pops in the toilet and he goes, this is not real. I can't, but it's always like, Oh no, bad Keanu Reeves acting. Please, please let me escape. And then he goes to what? Who? No, I refuse. Trinity. That's perfect. It's like, just like, it's just like the original Matrix. And he goes to the, to the, to the analyst and he's like, Oh, the whole thing is like,

2:02:28I'm going to ask Trinity, you know, this version. The deal. Come with me or not. The deal. Yeah. The deal. Like, Hey, I want to ask her if she's, if you know, by her free will, if she says, yes, great. If not, then I'll, I'll go back to your Matrix. Right. And you can do whatever you want with me. He's like, okay. And then she comes in and, uh, you know, it's the classic movie thing where it's like, he tries to talk to her and she's like, no, I have a life. You know, she's convinced. It's a wonderful rom-com. I played the game, but I don't believe it. And then guys, listen to this. I want to hear what you thought. As she was walking away. Right. And he failed. I was thinking like, okay, so this is a very depressing thought line, but maybe we go with it.

2:03:09Right. Maybe we say, right. He failed. Maybe he dies. Trinity goes back. And there's this whole little metaphor about like choice and stuff like that. That could be interesting. But then she turns around and she's like, don't call me Tiffany. I'm Stephanie. And then she goes into everybody was Kung Fu fighting. Yeah. Here's the thing. I'm 50 years old and I can't do the moves anymore. No, Jacob, here's the thing. You know, like within 10 minutes, when they go to, when they're done with the whole game thing and we realize it's going to be freeing Neo. It's like, yeah, this is what they're going to free Neo and Trent. It's going to be, that's it. This is,

2:03:49this is just it. But still, you know, I was still, well, you see, I wasn't bored. I was curious to see what, like I said, I was curious to see blah, blah, blah, blah. I was very happy to see, you know, old night. I'm serious. I was happy to see old night. I was happy to see more real world stuff. I wanted to see what the situation is. Old Niobe is your favorite character in the film. No. He's going to have a poster of old Niobe in the back. And he's like, look at her, look at her fake wrinkles. This looks great. I love it. I bought the standee. I'm going to prop it up afterwards. Exactly. What did you guys think of suicidal zombies? Jumping off buildings and crumbling into mashed potatoes.

2:04:29Conceptually, or whatever it was. Conceptually, a good idea. Cause I could see that being scary. Good idea. Execution wise. I looked. All those poor people just died. It was bad enough when agents morph into them. And now they're just like, What are you talking about? Now, like you read, you heard like, there's no agents anymore. This is better. And it is. No, no, no. Confused. What's conception good about the freaking high matrix code eyes? There's nothing good about it. It's stupid. Zombie video games are old. I'm going to use Phil Jacobs phrase. It's old school. It's not fun anymore. It's like a zombie. I don't want to see zombies anymore. I'm done. Those were like 2015. No, we're done with that. That was like, like something out of,

2:05:10you know, just didn't, you know, I thought about it. I mentioned it. I'm, I agree with you. I take it back. I throw it away. You take it back. I agree with you. And then, and then they're like, they're like, they're like, Neo, can you fly? Oh, I don't even know what to say. Like, I don't understand. We have to ride a bike. With the movie. No, I was kind of checked out at that point. Really? I was like, I was like, and then they go to the roof and they're like, they're like, we are going to have to die together. I get it. That's like a, like a Romeo and Juliet. We have to fly. And then Mary Poppins. And then they fly. No, she didn't fly. She kind of hangs. They don't fly. She kind of hangs. Okay. Well, she holds him. See guys,

2:05:50like, I don't know what to tell you. Like at that point, I'm, I agree with you, Tim. It's like, checked out, like anything can happen. I mean, they could, they could be farting dollar bills. I don't know. Like, yeah. To me, it doesn't make a difference. Like, okay, so great. So Trinity can fly and Neo can. What does that mean? What is, what is, what are you trying to say? Like, what's, I don't know. I didn't get it. I didn't, I didn't say, I didn't, I didn't get like a personal enjoyment out of it, of the spectacle. Cause it was kind of bad the way it looked and how things happen. I didn't, I didn't get like an emotional invest investment in the story or what was happening. I kind of just, there was, there wasn't a lot of things for me there. Unfortunately, I just, it was,

2:06:30it wasn't for me. And then I honestly forgot what happened next. I know the last scene, ending scene, but what happens? Oh, Trinity chops man. She chops man a few times. And then they're like, we're going to make this. What? Okay. Punches him, kicks him. I guess here's the thing. So the last thing they talk about, and they say, you know, they say, you guys are crazy with your emotions. Why would you, you know, you want to change the matrix and make it all stupid, you know, add rainbows. Let's give a little context. So basically at the end, they go back to the analyst's house, which is a psychology room session room. Yeah. And by the way, Trinity is not flying. She has a new coat. Yeah, they're both flying. They jump in Superman. And they have sunglasses. And they have sunglasses.

2:07:11They're now the, the, the, the dynamic duo. Yeah. And then, yeah, they come to the analyst and then she punches him. Slices his face and stuff. But then she also snaps her fingers and things, fix themselves. And, and he's like, why you, you want to go and change things around? They're like, yeah, we're going to go and change things around. No, he says, he says, I think like you want to run it. Like, no, we just want to go change some things. He's like, what are you going to like paint stuff, rainbows and stuff like that? Yeah. Why not? You know, it's crazy. So maybe that's like a meta commentary of like, you know what? I am the creator of matrix and I want to make it like this. This is the story I want to say. I can do it and you should respect it. No matter what. That's what I'm thinking too.

2:07:52Cause at the end, after that happens, they're like, yeah, let's do rainbows. Let's make rainbows in the sky. And then they fly away. I am the owner of this, not you. I want to do it. Correct. They fly away and they do the same thing that Mia does in the matrix one, right? Yeah. And then there's trombones playing. And then brass against place. Yeah. Someone pisses on someone's face. And at that moment, I had pretty much the same opinion as you, Tim, the same opinion. It was like, I think this was like supposed to be a moment of that, which you mentioned. Like, this is our story, my story. You know, I decided to make it a happy ending, right? It could have been depressing and sad and subversive,

2:08:33but I just actually went and made something very like what I want to do. Like I resurrected Phil. I keep saying Phil. Resurrected. I resurrected Neo and Trinity. So, so what? Which is brings back to my original. It's like, great. You did that. That's awesome. You have the absolute right to do that. And that's fine. And you should, you should make logic to it. I'm just not into it. Not because like, I think the matrix is some, something better. It's just, this wasn't for me. That's okay. You know, that sounds about right. That's, that's all there is. I'm going to look for other movies from other people right now. I'm in a space right now where something else is interesting to me than this. That's, that's, that's exactly it.

2:09:13I think that's pretty much it. Yeah. And again, that's why it brings me back to my original thing, which I said is that for me, it's like, if you're going to do a movie like this 20 years later, I think you can, you can do something wacky. And it might be, for me, that would be interesting. But now I guess maybe for Lana, which I see wasn't interesting. That's okay. I, who knows? What do you feel? Well, uh, how did you leave this theater? I think, I think it started intriguing and then it just kept going, getting worse and worse. Like the end, like, you know, like I said, third act, I didn't like, I didn't like it, but the core of it,

2:09:55I wish it hadn't, I wish there was something to that. Cause I think, like I said, it would be nice. It was just Trinity and Neo finding each other again and reconnecting and love prevails and stuff like that. I can, I get that. I love it. And I, I would like to see that, you know, it's wonderful. And I, just like the sequels, I feel like, so there's some interesting ideas. They just weren't fleshed out that well. And it's weird for me to say this, but I feel like, I miss, I miss, I miss the, the look of the sequels. Cause they, they felt like they had some kind of like reality to it. They had some kind of like grandeur. You know, when people are walking around with like glasses and really weird outfits and saying these poetic ways,

2:10:37the way that looks on that film and the way it's lit and the way it's colored, it just makes it look cool. No matter how garbagey they're saying, you know, it's, it's, you know, saying, oh, you know, we, we got a Niobe, lend us a ship. They're saying Google gobble, right? But it looks, they've been tested for VDTs. But by the cinema look, it makes it so much, it kind of adds to the level of coolness. Well, I feel like this look kind of, whatever they said, it just kind of subtracted because they're in this. Did you end up watching that side by side documentary? No. You gotta watch it, Tim. I think that would answer a lot of your question. I will. I will. Digital stuff. I will. it's true. Yeah. Um, anyway, like I said,

2:11:19I said, I left being very, I'm going to say it. I'm just being very disappointed with that ending, you know, being disappointed. And I just like, I don't want to see them. It's, is that supposed to be a triumphant moment? I wish that they ended it in a way that was weird. That was making you question things, you know, cause this like did the same thing. Matrix one. Yeah. It was the matrix one story again, you know? And I don't think that the humor was like at the end was merited from what we watched, especially like, I just boggles my, the mind to think of how these action scenes weren't so. You're cutting out too much. It boggles the mind to think about how these action scenes were just so not well done.

2:12:04Like I was, I didn't even think about that because it's not really worth mentioning. It fits the style of visuals. It just, it just like it was watched, like, you know, watch a Netflix TV show and you know, they don't have a budget and time to, you know, bring some kind of martial artist to work out these. So they just kind of slap each other's hands and there's quick cuts. And it's like, okay, we're back to talking and talk about the story. And I, so, but this, this brings me back to my whole premise at the beginning. It was like, wouldn't you guys agree then that like, when you're talking about a movie like this, it's like, you, you really even can't compare it to, to the old movies because, you know, I just think that all those influences and headspace and stuff, it just isn't there. And it also leads me to,

2:12:44for instance, like a sort of questions. Like, I think that when you're making something, you, you have to sort of, in a sense, allow some kind of a, you know, like you have to allow the muse, right. To sort of like guide you, right. Like you do the hard work, but that muse has to be there, like sort of like pushing you in whatever direction you have, you have a reason for that. And if you just don't have that, I think you can't force, you can't like necessarily force yourself and you can finish something, but it has to have some kind of an organic drive. But, you know, again, that's all speculation because I don't know what Lana Wachowski is. You know, we can only see it as from our perspective as viewers. Exactly. But that's kind of my opinion. That's what it feels like at least, you know, for this.

2:13:24So crazy times, you know, here we are. I mean, I don't mind it being made because it was interesting to me in any case. Well, I was interested. Yeah. I mean, it's not really, it doesn't feel like it's like, you know, breaking down walls of, you know, it's, I think it's just, I mean, it started to, it had the promise of doing that. I was so hoping. Or was that our insulated space? Are people besides us dudes in our thirties, super excited about Matrix? That's another really interesting question. Was that our modal? That's our modal. You know, was this for us? I don't know. That's an awesome one, you know? I think it was just for Lana. There you go. And that, that's, there you go. That's awesome. You do it.

2:14:04You do the thing. I feel like, I think the last, yeah, the last thing that I felt when I was leaving, I was like, they could write it. I should have directed it. I think we would have gotten a better. You, you wanted to direct. I would direct this. I would direct a script. I would say, listen, let's go over it a little bit more. You know, let's massage some stuff. In there. Let's take some stuff out. But I would definitely, cause like, I feel like I would keep that fakeness that they want, you know, like that with the, with the real lights and stuff like that, the real natural lighting. Cause I was very excited when I saw Neo talking to his boss in the office.

2:14:48Cause it was like a natural light. It wasn't like that when they made that, um, when they made that light, uh, that, um, trans light thing with when, you know, when Smith was talking to Morpheus, Morpheus, you know, evolution, like the dinosaur, you know, that was all fake lights. That explanation evolution. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And they tried, and you know, they, they, it was impression, it was an impression of natural light and that was natural light. So I'm like, Oh, the matrix is evolving. So I would keep aspects of that, but at least I would probably have the interest of being like, we're going to have good fight scenes this time. We're going to, you know, we're going to take, you know, like there would be things that I feel like would be a blend of,

2:15:32maybe you wouldn't like it. The question, do we even need fight scenes? That's my question. Jacob's obviously, no, I, I think your 10 year old self would be ashamed of you saying this with his boots and his knives. Do we need fights? I think you moved on, you know? Yeah. From a, I'm a different man. So for me, I'm obviously, for me, it's very much like my impression of this is very much like this, like two and three, just in a different way. That's weird. A different two and three. I have a question for you guys. It's like worse. Yeah. Is it worse for you guys? Before, before we end, I just want, I'm really curious to see after this experience, you know, returning after two and three experience to four and what it is,

2:16:14do you feel, is there anything like, do you feel like you're interested in anything that another something of matrix would come out? Would you share the same interest as you did before four came out? Or you're now kind of like, you know, leaves a bad taste in your mind. Like, okay, I think whatever comes out of matrix, I'm just going to stay away from, because is there anything like, or you're thinking like, Oh, if they do matrix, that's the end of our podcast then. And we can't, we can't kill the podcast because, you know, we're raking in those, those greens, you know, we are. We have the sponsors, we have, you know, everything. So, my Ferrari, I'll be standing.

2:16:56So, from a monetary perspective, you know, keep going. I'm interested in everything matrix. I mean, everything, the mouse pad, the matrix mouse pad. Yeah, I have one right here. Is there anything like, but you can't, I think you can't really answer that question because it's like, well, how do you feel? You know, like right now? Yes. Honestly, I think this is an experiment that we're all living through in sort of this like, resurrection of old, of older franchises and stuff. And people sort of, I mean, they, they, they try to critique it. I mean, like, are you thinking like, I'm just saying in general, like a zeitgeist type, we live in a time where I think that we are seeing things, you know, coming back and revisiting and, you know,

2:17:36things becoming, having, being sequels and stuff. I don't know how, if that was really a case in the past. I don't really think so. I think that's something a little more relevant to our generation in time. I think it's been, I think it's a little bit more on the nose, but I think it's been something that's been happening for the last 50 years. I would say. 50 years. 15 years. Yeah. I think the, the sort of, like if you look at like culture and science and ideas, it's, it's, it's very, you know, what was retro. I think it's just becoming more blunt, you know, as it is, as you can clearly. And also talking about now, I'm a little confused. Just like, you know, re resurrecting things that were popular when you were a child. Okay. Okay. You know,

2:18:16I feel like, okay. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. But, but I completely get what you're saying. I meant more movies specifically. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I meant. Oh, there's definitely like this. Yeah. Yeah. Like bringing old friends, like the business of bringing old franchises that make you money. Not culturally. Yeah. Yeah. No, not like fashion, pop culture, stuff like that. More like just like movies. I think that's something that it's interesting for us sort of like going through that because I think that, you know, we lived through certain movies that, you know, for us were, you know, interesting or seminal or whatever. And I think we also lived through some movies coming out that were probably also like important for, you know, whatever your opinion is for like cinema history and stuff like that. Not, not like a ton,

2:18:56but a couple of movies. And so now I think we're also experiencing some weird stuff with like these, uh, continuations, you know, and it's, it's not, it's not a continuation. Like the studio is like pushing it, but it's actually the original makers too. Yeah. That's something that I think is differentiates it from the past. Like in this case, Lana Wachowski doing it, you know, or like Mad Max, Mad Max, Mad Max. Mad Max, Yeah, go back. Oh yeah. Um, it's interesting. So I don't know. Phil switched to blue. He's going back to matrix one. He shut off the matrix sequels with the green. Um, I guess, I mean, it's, it's, it's like, I'm talking about the matrix one minute at a time.

2:19:37But one of the, like one of the, one of the thoughts that went into my head was like, you know, if you're going to make a second one, let me direct it. I want to see what's going on. I want to know. I want to see what's going on. Let's call Phil. His number is five, seven, eight, nine, seven, two, two, five. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of, that's kind of how I feel, you know, I wouldn't, if I were working in the film industry and if they wanted me to do that, why don't you go on, why don't you show them end of matrix? I would definitely take a look. You should walk in there and tell them, Hey, this is how you do it. You, you take this board, plywood board, you stick some wheels on it and then you put a tripod on it and this is how you get tracking shots. This is how you do it. And then you try it once and twice and see how much it bounces because you're a stupid 14 year old and then you don't use it.

2:20:20Cause it's loud as hell. You can't carry the conversation. No, what I was trying to say is like, to me personally, this made me feel like, okay, I'm not really interested in what the original creators have to say. I'm more interested in kind of like Animatrix kind of world where people who saw the matrix and are inspired by it and want to create their own vision of what the matrix means. I think I'm more interested in that and continuation of the main canon or sorts. So if there's ever going to be like an anthology animated series or something like that, within the matrix, I think that that's the best option. I'll maybe see that. Here's an interesting thing, the way to answer that question of yours, like are you excited and stuff? I think that I'm learning about myself that I am not necessarily interested in specific subject matter by itself,

2:21:07but more like that subject matter in relation to my life in the sense of like, you know, like we talked about earlier, it's like if something is maybe particularly has had made an impact on my life, I'll be interested in like sort of like reminiscing like, huh, you know, what else did it do with this? Or, you know, but like I, I would distinguish myself from certain maybe fans of the matrix where all, you know, those reddit men who are like, the logic, let's talk about the logic of the matrix. Oh, and they're having like orgasms and stuff about, about the logic of the matrix. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah. Yeah. Just like living in like what's canon, what works, what does that mean? The code is going into his body.

2:21:47I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like thinking of like, like things that are not explained, they're making their own explanation and then convince themselves that this is how it works. It's like fake smart. Oh, you mean like the cookies, right? It's like sitting in a room with your guy, with your friends and like being fake smart and thinking about these like logical things. I think that's really fun. And I, I don't, I'm not taking away that from people. Like you should totally do that. It's just that. Well, no, people can do it. I'm just saying that I, I have no interest in that. Yeah. Yeah. That to me sounds super boring. Yeah. Sitting at a coffee table. Because you can make your own world then. Instead of time with the matrix, make your own thing. Make a movie. You know? Where cookies are ate with code. Yeah. With milk. Okay, guys, I have to go. Yeah. I think we're done. We're done. We're done.

2:22:27We went through it. We talked about it. It's great. It worked out perfect. Ruben, I think I only went a couple of times and every time he was great. So, he knew we were recording. Yeah. I think I hear Finn as well. So, we are out. Okay. I think we're done. I'm. The dad's got to go. I have no children. But I do feel like, I think I like this more than you did. I think that's the consensus. I think, but I think on, on a, just in a way where it's like, I can, I enjoy the potential or something. Like there's something that I liked underneath it. Cause I clearly, I just didn't, wasn't very interested in how it was directed. Right. You know? So, I think to finish with this and it's,

2:23:07please let us know what you think. Right. Yes. You are listening. Yeah. Let's go on the old Facebookers. Yes. Or the Twitters. Matrix Minute. Just please, you know, if you want to share, I know you guys have been interested in seeing the movie. I think it's out now. If you've seen it, give us a little comment. We'll make a post asking you for this. Cause we really want to hear everyone's opinion. I want to hear, I'm really curious to what you guys think. You can write a sentence, paragraphs, whatever, go for it. Just write a book. No joke. Send the book. We'll buy it on Amazon. We'll read a couple of paragraphs. We'll give it to a robot to read it to us at night. Yeah. Like, you know, a podcast driving to work. Like my brother downloading the speech. Matrix was really good. Okay, guys. Thanks again for listening.

2:23:48This has been a Matrix Minute special. I miss the old Matrix. And you know, guys, I think, good times doing this podcast. I think it was a good time chatting. Good times. Good times. Interesting times. Have a happy new year and a Merry Christmas and all the holidays. Merry Christmas as well. Merry Matrix Christmas. All the holidays. Who knows? We'll be back here. The Squiddy's in the films. Who knows? Oh my goodness. Yeah, who knows? Maybe one day. Oh man, it makes me kind of sad. I hope it's only the last time. No, no, it's not going to be. Don't worry, the Matrix never dies. It's the gift that keeps on giving. It's going to be a 70s and it's going to be a remake of Matrix. It's going to be played by some young chap and be like, this fucking sucks,

2:24:29man. It's going to be great. I love it. All right, guys. Have a good one. Enjoy time with family and friends. And we'll see you. We'll see you. I can hear the music playing in my ears. This is weird. Dude, I could hear the music in my ears. It was so weird. I hear the, like actually playing in my ears as we're saying goodbye.

2:25:11That was so strange.