Introduction

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00The Matrix Minute, a micro-podcast where we discuss the first groundbreaking film in one minute at a time, because we just love this movie. So on this podcast is me, Jake Dragish. Hi. Hi, Jake. A little bit about myself, what can I say? Really, at the end of the day, I'm a musician. I play music. I've been playing that for a while. Currently, I study philosophy. Right on schedule. Phil and I are from Indiana, but we also grew up in Europe. That's right. In Austria and Croatia. Wow. And currently, we're in Croatia. We are. Yeah. Phil, tell us about yourself. Well, you pretty much mentioned all the things because we share a common ancestry.

0:44But yeah, I also do... The monkeys. I love making films and I love talking about films. And it's just, it's in my blood. It's in my blood. And I just love it every single time. And talking about the behind the scenes of things is something I love doing. I love watching making of documentaries, sometimes even more than the movies. But I just, you know, it's always fun talking about movies. And one of my favorite movies is The Matrix. And it was a huge influence to me when we watched it for the first time when I was 12. And for me now, with their visual language and the way they really encapsulated a whole generation of like filmmaking capacity that happened in 1999. It just like sort of changed the game. I love directing and I love doing that.

1:24But right now, I'm kind of on hiatus, as it were. Kind of haven't done anything for a while. A whole boom in the streets. And in the meantime, I also do artwork and I do concept designs and character designs for different things. And of course, storyboard stuff because visualizing and telling stories is really fun for me to do. So that's kind of what I do as a freelance profession. I like it. At the moment. And I'm also like playing piano sometimes. That's good. Well, I wanted to add as well. I also... And I love doing sounds and stuff. And I did an audiobook too. It was pretty cool. But we don't want to talk about that. To add, I also dabble in writing from time to time. That's another thing for me. Ooh. Okay. And the last person in our podcast is Tim. Tim, tell us about yourself.

2:05I'm Tim. Who are you? Who are you and what relationship do you have with us? Oh, really? Okay. I'm your cousin. You're distant. No, you're close cousin. Is there a distant cousin? I don't know. Yeah. We're close cousins. We're close cousins. I was born and raised, as the John Mayer album says, in Serbia. Even though I am slow like nationality, I think. Pretty much. Yep. Currently, I am a programmer by the day by a respectable telecommunications company. Respectable telecommunications company. And then in my free time, I dabble in music, like writing, composing, and production for

2:47all such stuff, like little games and little videos and stuff like that. A wizard. And yeah. Where are you calling from? Because we're not in the same room. Me and Phil are in the same room. Hi. Yeah. You guys are. I'm calling from Bratislava. Slovakia. Slovakia. Yeah. Or Pressburg or Pozhan. Pressburg. Sounds the coolest, in my opinion. Yeah. Bratislava is terrible. It's like a pan-Slavism. It's a Slavi-Slavie. What does the Matrix mean to you, Tim? Well, I think Matrix is a very important sort of point in my life. But it was very influential as it came out at that age. It was like 10, 11. And as a pre-pubescent boy, you get a lot of influence. And Matrix was definitely that.

3:27It influenced me and how I saw movies. Because I think up until that point, I was only interested in movies that were funny. And this kind of broadened my scope. And definitely interested in science fiction, in making movies. The Matrix soundtrack kind of exposed me completely new, different set of musics. New spectrum musics. Music that I didn't know, like metal music and electronic and stuff like that. And later on, you know, got my interest in philosophy or any kind of things that influenced the Matrix. So at that point, I think for the next 10 years, I was pretty much influenced just by that point in time.

4:07Man, you guys have such good descriptions of what the Matrix meant to you. And me, because I was four years younger than you guys, I kind of just tagged along. You got a pretty cool shirt out of it that made you muscly. Oh, that's your story. That story will definitely show up at some point in this podcast, I'm sure. But anyway, I would agree as well. I mean, I don't think it has such a big impact on me from those standpoints. But it did definitely become pretty much my favorite film. Just like you guys, for the reasons you were describing. So here we are. Many years later, I'm still tagging along. A little Jake with us. At least you don't. Well, you're taller than all of us. I know. Yeah, you were the little one and now you're like the giant that looms over us.

4:50I'm a tree. And of course it goes without saying that we should give thanks. And not only give thanks, but acknowledge the fact that this is... Our Lord and Savior. Exactly. Jesus Christ. This came from the idea that was started by Pete the Retailer and Alex Robinson, who both co-hosted and are still co-hosting this podcast called The Star Wars Minute. And we're doing exactly the same. We're kind of jumping on the bandwagon. Thieves. Into this new array of something that they actually started. Just taking their idea. Yep, just taking their idea like many other people did as well. And there's like a huge list of Movies by Minutes. We didn't do it first. Everyone else stole it as well.

5:31And if you go to moviesbyminutes.com, you can see a whole list that they curate. And it has stuff like Goodfellas, A Talking Cast, like from the movie called A Talking Cat. Minute by Minute. Indiana Jones Minute. Back to the Future Minute. Alien Minute, which is one of my favorite ones because they actually kind of put a more educational spin on it and more of a philosophical kind of observation. Jurassic Park Minute over there. And there's also Lord of the Rings Minute and Goonies Minute and all this kind of stuff. So much. And at least we hope it'll be fine if we could maybe do it ourselves.

6:11We're already doing it. It has to be. With the Matrix. It's already out there. Because we love this film so much. And yeah, so yeah, Star Wars Minute. Go and see that. They just finished Attack of the Clones. Go and listen to that, Philip. Did I say what I say? No. What did I say? People can't see. Most people can. Go and listen to it. No, listen to ours. Ours is better. Star Wars Minute.com. It's great. I listen to it a lot of times when I do my artwork. That's true. Didn't you first discover them? That was obviously when you decided. I wish I discovered it when I watched this video of this wonderful guy talking about the alien score. And he mentioned alien minute by minute. And I was like, what is this format? And I looked at it and I thought it was pretty cool. Pretty neat. So why not? Why not?

6:54Okay. Wonderful people. Wonderful. Wonderful. We hope they will accept us. And we're here to, like I said, one minute at a time with The Matrix, because for us, it's a huge, big, giant deal. So if you're looking for an analysis for its dense layers of symbolism and philosophy, turn else wither. This is just, you know, three guys who've been seriously inspired by how great this film is, by its characters, storyline, tone, style and visuals, right? So, in the end, it's just something entertaining and slightly interesting that, you know, we love to talk about.

7:36This podcast isn't meant to be one where we analyze every shot, you know, and discuss its influences ranging from mythology, Hong Kong films, adventure, philosophy, science fiction, postmodernism, existentialism, and references to transcendentalism, religion, nihilism, hero of a thousand faces and metaphysics. And symbolism that this film is densely layered in because it's a perfect storm of what the Wachowskis are interested in, in one amazingly saturated movie where people punch each other on wires and shoot each other with funny slow-mo effects and drum and bass music. And they really pulled it off. So it's not just the Campbell-curated hero's coming-of-age story, not just a kung fu action film, not just a science fiction movie with mythological aspects.

8:19It's not just a personal bit of artistic expression, not even a philosophical pedestal from different sources, creeds, or points of view. It's actually well-made and is both specific and vague enough to be digested by a broad audience, which actually made it so successful. It can be watched as a highly interesting and entertaining movie. It's so well-crafted to be able to be watched in different ways, which, you know, just doubles into the themes of the movie itself. It's incredibly precise and well-ironed out, which is what we're actually treating it as. Because we're not organized and we quite frankly think there's so many articles about it online, so we just think going into basics would be the best idea.

9:00We're trying to at least pull in some esoteric tidbits that might not be covered by other podcasts. And that's what I hope we're going to do. I mean, we're primarily basing this on our personal reactions, memories, and, you know, more in the lens of our perspectives. Because it was such a huge thing when we first saw it. You know, it's a huge influence since we were wee youngins and we were instant fans after seeing it way over a decade ago. And I'm sure we're all in agreement that we can't compress how it influenced all of pop culture as a whole in this one podcast. So sometimes I'll find a few facts that I think weren't talked about a lot. But this is just a chill pill podcast where we just have fun talking about every minute without the need to dig into the symbolism.

9:47You know, and just talk about the story and characters as they appear. You know, for example, I love seeing movies on all aspects and love talking about behind the scenes and tidbits and what people intended in shots and narratives and movies. That's about it. You know? Well, I think there's nothing left to be said. Yeah. That's it. Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye. Except there's no drum and bass in Matrix. You fool! We have nothing to add, Philip. Isn't that drum and bass? Drum and bass is more like... Drum and bass is the evolution of jungle, which is using high-speed hip-hop loops over... Yeah, there's no drum and bass. So big beat.

10:28I don't know what it's called, man. Anyway, so thank you for the intro, Phil. Again, I don't think we can add or top that. I don't know. So we're going to leave it at that. Phil got possessed by the demon of salesmanship. It was magical. I have witnessed. I had to explain. It's good you explained everything. As clear as possible. As clear as day. It's as clear as mud. And I don't know about you guys, but I think as far as the general scope of cinema, it is quite a bit of a milestone. But I think for personally, it came out at a time when I was 10, 11, when, you know, as a boy, you're developing. And some people seen Star Wars. Some people seen other movies that basically define them and put the trajectory of their

11:09thoughts and discovery of other creative arts from that point on. Like until probably until I was 18, I was pretty much obsessed with this movie. That is true. That is true. And then you turned 18 and then it's just, you can't. It's just like, it's just like, no more. I will walk you shed it away. I think, I think for me, I probably more or less tagged along with you guys, but I would definitely say the same that I think The Matrix did so many things that were new, novel and interesting. And it was one of those films that completely grabbed your attention and you were completely captivated. And especially when you're a kid, at least when I was watching it, I was, what? How old were you? Around eight, I think. In 99. So, you know, it had everything, you know, the cool coats, the guns, uh, the storyline,

11:52which made you ask questions. Cause you know, when you're eight years old, like me, all I did was ask questions. Yeah. Well, what's going on there? Why is he, what does he mean? Why did he, Morpheus, Seth, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, Yeah, we watched, me and you, Jake, we watched these films. No, you could have been, like, you were six when, 1999. Yeah, you're right. You're right, actually. Let's do the math. Who's good at math? We haven't seen the film in 1999. In 1993, so you were seven. We saw it in 2001. Oh, really? Oh, 2001. Okay. I want to talk about it. Let's talk about our first introductions to watching The Matrix. We watched The Matrix while we were living in Croatia in 2001. Right, Philip? Mm-hmm. And our first experience was Tim's brother, Stan, was telling us about The Matrix.

12:35And he was telling us about this amazing movie that we'll love that takes place in the future. And I think he mentioned dystopian future. So for me, I was like, what? Because we've only seen the poster. Yeah. Neo in this blue-tinged background, carrying guns, wearing these cool clothes. You automatically assume that that's a dystopian film. Right. And so- You guys were aware what dystopian was back then? Well, post-apocalyptic. Yeah. Okay. Like, destroyed world, basically. And we were thinking like, oh, man, it's going to be- Intense. With these glasses. It's where it is. Yeah. Running around, shooting people, saving people. I thought it was going to be kind of like the cinematographer- What's the movie you saw? Saving Private Ryan. What's the movie you saw that was close to this, that you wanted, in your head, you

13:18pictured? We did do the math. 1993, I was born. And we watched 2001. Yes. So I would have been- So you were eight. Eight, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. What movie was similar to this that we watched back then? I don't know. What did you associate it with? I mean, look, I, when I was a kid, I think I watched too many movies that are not appropriate for my age. Right. I mean, we watched Terminator 2 very- Yeah. Very early on. And also, like I said right now, like Saving Private Ryan, I'm like, that's a really intense movie. Man, that thing traumatized me so much. Remember one time when Tim was over, we watched it like in the morning? Yes. At like 11 a.m. Yeah, that was horrible. I hated that. I didn't even know about that movie then. It was just like, oh, let's watch Shaving Private. Oh, really? You didn't know?

13:58Privates. You didn't know. What? You haven't seen it since then? Like, actually, when we watched it that time, he didn't see it? That was the first time you watched it, Tim? No, I've, I don't know. Maybe my other cousin played it for me because he played a bunch of war movies and I'm thinking I might have seen it with him then. And then it was like, oh, let's watch it again. But I can't remember. Honestly. You know it came out as a double VHS. That's how long it was. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like Titanic. Anyway, coming back to the story. I was around eight. Phil was around 12. And our cousin Stan was introducing us. And our cousin Stan is this really cool guy who. Old man. He's not an old man. He's. He was 30 at the time. Yeah, he was 30 at the time. And he was proficient at piano and music and sound. Creative guy.

14:39Yeah. Very creative. Very influential. And he was so. That automatically made him so cool. Absolutely. So influential. Were you saying your cousin, my bigger brother? Yeah. Your older brother, Tim. Yeah. That's right. But so, of course, whenever he told us stories or told us things, gospel, you know what I mean? That's what it felt like. Absolutely. So he's telling us about the Matrix and how awesome it was. And we were pumped and we were stoked to see this. Great. Because it's. Sorry. Stan approved. Yeah. That's another one of his names. Which is automatically. Great. But bear in mind that I actually was aware of the Matrix. I was aware of the Matrix. Oh, yes. Mention that. Back in 1999 when I was 10. And kids at school who saw it were saying, let's play the Matrix.

15:21In the States, right? For recess. Yeah. In the States this time. And all I had referenced was the poster. So I thought that Morpheus was actually the leader of the agents and the agents were chasing Neo with the trench coat. And they were in that kind of Terminator 2 future world. You did the kid thing of just inventing your own story. Yes. Yes. And I thought it was intense because it was rated R. It's a real movie. And so what happened was we finally rented the VHS from our local video store. And we took it home. And with us, it was going to be our dad and Stan watching the film. And I remember distinctly popping in the VHS. And you know how it was. Fuzzy. Fuzzy and blurry.

16:02Full screen cropped. Full screen cropped. And we pressed play. And you know. Well, here we are. Here we are. In the Matrix. And I think we played about a minute, maybe, of the movie. And we're like, no, no, no. We have to wait until Stan comes back. And we watch it together. And that was it. I remember that's the first time we watched it. In our bedroom. Together on VHS on television. What were you, Tim? Well, I remember the same guy. My brother. He, when it came out. He's just evangelizing us. He's making us take a red pill. He was like what? He was a prophet. 15 years older. He, you know, does the creative arts. He's a new computer.

16:42So, he's very influential to us boys back in the day. So, he went to see. The only thing I saw was this weird trailer. It wasn't a proper trailer. It was just like some action shots. Because there was this new surround system cinema in Belgrade in the capital. And it was like they had it on a TV. They had advertisements. And part of the advertising was Matrix. And it was just the lobby shootout scenes in there. So, that's all I knew about it. I just saw that they had supernatural powers. And I thought it was like magic and stuff. They were like shooting bullets and things. And then my brother went to see. They were what? They were doing what? Bullets? They were shooting bullets. Sorry. Sounded it wrong.

17:22But then my brother for his, I think, 10th anniversary with his wife. Their friend had another friend who had a limo. So, he pretended he was a limo driver. He drove him all the way to Belgrade. And they went to see the Matrix. Wow. Just them two. Not you. Just them two. No, no, no. I didn't know. And then they came back. And they used to live in our town. I think it was the next morning. They came over for lunch or something. And I remember distinctly my brother sitting in the kitchen. Just his mind completely blown. And he tried to explain it to us what was going on. And I just remember, you know, like, it's in the future. People live in the earth. And there's like this virtual reality kind of stuff.

18:02And then he was like, I can't even explain it to you. It's so crazy. That's so good. He used the line like, I can't explain. You have to see it yourself. And that was my introduction to Matrix. And I was completely obsessed with this movie. Because my brother was obsessed with it. I mean, look, we were all obsessed with films. When did you watch it, though, first? After this experience of being told. I really, really wanted to watch it. And, of course, we didn't go to cinema. And I didn't have anyone to go to cinema for that movie. So I didn't see it until... Do you guys remember, Meggie? They used to get a lot of tapes from US. A lot of VHS tapes from US. And they had the Matrix. And I was at their house just visiting. And I saw it. And I was like, that's the Matrix. Official? Official? Oh, yeah. Official VHS with like the...

18:42It had like shimmering like code. It was blue. Like, you know, like when you move it around. It's like kind of like... Like the 3D effect. It wasn't the 3D effect. It was just like... It was like... A holographic. A holofoil kind of thing. Yeah, that kind of thing. So it looked like pretty... It was pretty fancy. And I got it and I brought it home. And my sister was still there. And I remember I really wanted to watch it. How old is your sister, by the way? You have to just clarify. She's about 10 years older than me. All right, cool. Okay. And you were again... So she's like a teenager. At this time. No, no, no. She was like... She was already, I think... 20? If I was 10, 11, she was 20. She was already in college. And she was visiting. Oh, okay, cool. She was visiting and she wanted... I think she saw it maybe. And she wanted to watch it again. But she was like, oh, no. She was telling my parents, you know, it's R-rated.

19:22It's... I don't know. This will be... This might be too tough. But I was like completely obsessed. I really wanted to see it. Like, you know, for that one explanation for that one hype. The hype for my brother. I really wanted to see it. And then she said, okay, you have... You can see it, but you have to write an essay afterwards about it. What? About the movie? About the movie. Oh, well, great. What I thought about the Matrix. And I was like, I just didn't care. I mean, if they made me watch the car 300 times, I would still do it. So watch the movie. By yourself. Maybe with her, but with someone. I don't honestly remember anything except really cool action from the first time watching it. And I remember I wrote the essay. I just picked up a bunch of BS from what my sister and my brother were saying.

20:06Like how it's supposed to be a... Huh. I remember I wrote it... Because I just cared because it was cool at that point. I mean, I didn't understand it. But I remember them saying, my older brother and sister, like something. Oh, it's like a commentary on video games and how they're bad. So I wrote that. That's the movie. That was my essay. Well... It was a page and a half. It was worth it. It was worth it. A page and a half. And then I watched The Matrix like a zillion times after that. Yeah. Yes. Our friend Maggie. Yeah. She... Movies when we were kids. Like short films. Oh, yes. Whenever we got together and family reunions and stuff, we always... And when we visited you and you visited us, we always made films. And then we made these little short films called False Wipe, which were science fiction

20:49based, heavy Matrix influenced things. It's basically a Matrix. It is. It wasn't straight Matrix, but it was like it had all the elements. It was the glasses, the coats. The coats. It was like the cool guys doing teleportation and doing different stunts, right? I think all the boys of our age who had access to a camera have done this at that point. I think it's kind of like, you know, when you're a Star Wars fan when you're a kid and you make movies in the backyard with lightsabers. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. But except ours, at least this had a stable concept as far as, you know, it's not just people running around with trench coats. True. True. It was actually like, I'm trying to build, I was trying to build a plot that goes... I've never seen that plot. I know. I know. It was just a bunch of people running around. And we had our own characters in the world.

21:29Yeah. We had the characters in there that were established and it's basically a bad guy messing around in virtual reality. And the whole thing is supposed to feel like you don't know what the real world is because it's going into different softwares all the time and the whole battle takes place virtually. That's about it. We made like four of these. They were supposed to be like TV episodes, allegedly. You know what I mean? And this was 2001. And then we made the Matrix movies. And then we made actual Matrix sequels because after seeing Revolutions and this Matrix Minute, we're not going to go into the sequels. We're really going to try to cover Matrix 1 and that'll be it. Well, this is a giant intro.

22:10We better say something. And we actually did real Matrix sequels. They're not really sequels. They're Matrix universe movies. They're spinoffs. Yeah, they're spinoff sequels. I would call them parallel films to the Matrix. Mid quotes? Mid quotes. Spin off Mid quotes. I think we all made this movie together. These movies together we don't know. Yeah. This was in December 2003 when Tim came over to visit us in Zagreb, which was where we were living at the time. And I was very influenced by the fact that I think that Zagreb could double for the Matrix in a certain capacity. And we actually filmed these little short snippets because I was disappointed in where Matrix Revolutions ended.

22:51Oh. And I wanted it to be a true end of the Matrix. Wow. And so what happened was this is a parallel story where these two minor characters actually witness something that happens after Revolutions or in between Revolutions or something like that where the Matrix actually collapses. And it's called End of the Matrix and we made that. And Tim and I just basically listened to Phil and we did what he says. And that's pretty much our role. And then a pants fell. I mean, it looked kind of cool. I mean, at least that. So that's kind of cool. And then. Yeah. And so the Matrix still lives on as a very big inspirational. Yeah. I think we always look forward to like we're always into the Matrix world. And then when the second movie came out, we watched it in theaters in the States.

23:33And then we watched the third one in Croatia. And then Tim, did you watch any of them in theaters? Do you remember the story when I stole Matrix 2? Yes. So I could see it. Yes. Yes. Like a bad, really bad cinema rip that was in the game. Oh, yeah. With amazing like camera from the bottom. Yes. Front row. Stole it. Got in trouble. And guess what? I remember it was like a Divex, right? Like a ripped Divex. And I remember you telling us like, it's a Divex, but this sounds really good. Or was it for the third one? I don't know. I don't know. I just remember I think I had the second one, like a really bad rip that we stole off a guy and ran away. Really? Because we really wanted to see it. It's just stupid because we're so obsessed. And also even like the way it inspired us to make movies.

24:16And especially me, I know you feel before you knew about like, you know, behind the scenes and stuff like that. But for me, Matrix definitely opened up that sort of like realizing what's behind a movie. And also definitely the motion picture, not the soundtrack, the orchestral one, but the inspired by whatever soundtrack is. There was a lot of guitar and metal music, which I have not like listened to before. And that was very influential. It just opened up a completely new spectrum of music to me from that one. I discovered Deftones on that. So it was definitely like, you know, one of those things when a point of your life that you can kind of, you know, follow back a lot of things that made you a person is coming

25:00from this one movie and what it influenced. Like even like the other movies kind of, you know, made me open to more like reading about philosophy and all that kind of stuff, you know, as you're developing as a teenager. Yeah. So we owe quite a bit to that movie. Jinx. Yeah, definitely. Deja vu. We. Can we get on with the program? Yeah. I just wanted to say that the sequels. When the sequels came out, we were disappointed slightly more and more. Who cares about the sequels? And I just wanted to say that I, over time, I appreciate the sequels more based on like what they're. This is not about the sequels. What they wanted to do based on instead of how it was executed. But their ideas for the sequels were really good. Okay. That's all I wanted to say. Okay. All right. So Matrix now.

25:41Let's go watch. Get on with it. The first minute. Get on with it. We'll be back. No. Wait. The history of how the film started. What? Don't you want? I wrote so many beautiful notes. What did you want to do? I wanted to just talk about how it was developed and how it got into become the film it was. Okay. Can I just do that real quick? Yes. This is the big intro. All right. So the Wachowski brothers, who are now not the Wachowski brothers. They're Wachowski sisters. That's Lana. That's Lana and Lily. But back in 93, 94. 92, they were Larry and Andy. They're from Chicago. So big ups for that. And they actually ran a little house painting construction business there.

26:24Wow. Because their parents used to do that. So they kind of did that as well. But they also had side jobs with working at Marvel Comics. And they wrote some episodes for a comic line called Ectokid. And then the comic adaptations and continuations of Hellraiser. And other stories by... Lye Parker. Did they both... So this was back in the early 90s. And that's how they started. Did they both write and draw? No. They just write. Just write. Okay. Absolutely. They just draw. Then, allegedly, they read a book called How I Made 100 Movies in Hollywood and Never Lost a Dime by... Roger Corman. The great influencer of our time for all kinds of modern filmmakers that are successful

27:06now. Because under... Did he work on Lord of the Rings? John Borman is the Lord of the Rings guy. Roger Corman is the wonderful B-movie man that has been making them since the 1960s. And he influenced... Not only did he influence a lot of directors, but he also mentored a lot of directors that would become successful later on, like James Cameron, who did, I think, Piranha 2, The Spawning. Yeah, Piranha 2 was his first. Ugh. Yeah. So, there's a lot of little film tricks that Roger Corman had in his itinerary to create... Ripper's Wall. Yeah. To create these schlocky B-movies, but at very little cost and lots of profit. And they read this book sometime in the early 90s, and they were inspired by that. And then they started writing scripts.

27:47Their first script was called Carnivore, which was about rich people getting eaten by cannibals. Okay. And that movie was never made. But they sent it to some people at the industry, and it got noticed for, I guess, how well-written it was. So, this was a small independent film? No, this was never made. Oh, sorry. Yeah. It was just a movie that the Wachowski brothers at the time... Just them. Yeah, and... What do you think of the original? They're Polish, right? That's a Polish man. Yes, their dad was Polish. Wachowski. There you go. That sounds good. And so, they wrote scripts for... They wrote a script for a movie called Assassins, which was directed by Richard Donner for Warner

28:28Brothers. You see how these things are starting to connect? Yeah. They bought the script and gave them two more movies into that contract, so they were able to secure a deal for that kind of a situation. So, they got two movies after this that they would write for after Assassins. Now, they didn't like Assassins at all because Richard Donner had the script rewritten, but the Wachowskis, you know, they wanted to get their names off of that film as well. They tried to not be associated with it because of how the movie was butchered, according to them. And so, that sort of inspired them to actually have to direct the movies as well because they're very specific people when it comes to... Oh, wait. I saw this movie.

29:09Assassins? Yeah? Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. Is this... Oh, I actually saw this movie. Wait, wait, wait. Is this... When one of them is... Oh, yeah. This is like Antonio Banderas and he's got the laptop and he's like... They're like trying to kill each other. We should watch this movie. Oh, is that where that gif comes from? I think so, yes. Where he's like... I remember he's always like laptops and he's got silencers and he's always like brushing his hair. I watched this like before The Matrix. Well, this was... Yeah, this is a 1995 film and the Wachowskis didn't like it because of all these script changes that happened. And so, they said that their next film, they're going to push as hard as they can to direct it themselves as well because otherwise they're going to get more botched script.

29:50To their credit, they're absolutely right because that's how it happens in the film. Industry. Things always change like that, you know? And, um... Well, uh... They bound after that, didn't they? Yeah. I watched that. So, then they were developing, you know, the sci-fi serial, you know, set inside a computer. It's called Reboot. Reboot? No. No! It's The Matrix, obviously. Oh, I thought that was like a temp title. Okay, so the big idea... Big idea? Phil Vischer's company? Yeah, so the big idea for The Matrix actually came... It came by because the Wachowskis, and I quote, They sat together in a cramped Chicago apartment with a view of a brick wall and wondering if there were a reason or perhaps some law of nature that might explain why most action movies

30:32are idea-less and conversely, most idea movies remain action-less. And this is actually an excerpt from what they wrote for the introduction on the Ultimate Matrix collection in 2004. Remember the DVD collection that we got? I do. Yeah. And that's actually what they wrote about. That's a pretty good one. And they actually talked to Joel Silver about it because he was producing Assassins. Yeah, makes sense. Uh-huh. And so they were already starting to tell him about this project that they were developing about, you know, science fiction, action... Didn't they read that book? So-and-so, so forth. Didn't they read Simulacra and... Well, yeah, this is also like... I'm going through the direct line into how The Matrix was made, but of course their influences were a lot of different things. Right.

31:12So many things. Because they were like, yeah, that's true, yeah. That's like really big... I remember from the making, I was just saying Japanimation. Yeah. Japanimation. Like... I love that word. And so they wanted to direct this Matrix film and Joel Silver said, well, that's going to be really hard because you haven't done anything, you know? You know how that works? Yes, I remember this. And then they're like... But then Joel Silver is being a nice guy. You know who Joel Silver is, right? Yes, the producer. The producer of The Matrix. But also produced a bunch of like big action films in the 80s. Like Commando, I think. I was going to say Commando, right? Predator. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are... Die Hard. The big muscle ones. Man, I'm not sure if it's Die Hard or not, but I'm pretty sure it is.

31:55You should check that because I'm just doing this off the top of my head. What about your research? I'm checking. I'm always fact-checking you in the back. Oh, are you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Well, since you're being all fancy pants and like, you know, educating people. I'm super fancy pants. You better say the truth, my boy. Americans are too in love with the sound of their own voice. He did? So, Commando and Die Hard. Oh, good. I was correct then. Confirmed. And Silver Pictures also did Sherlock Holmes. He's there, right? Silver Pictures has that melty silver logo. Yeah, that melty square logo. But yeah, but Joel Silver was so nice that he said he'll help them with whatever their other movie would be. And it would have to be smaller scale because Matrix is really high concept. So, they just made up Bound.

32:36Bound and Bound. And they directed it. They were able to do that with Joel Silver's help. And in 1996, it's a thriller crime movie where these two girls attempt to steal $2 million from a mob. Wow. It's like a heist thing. From Cypher. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I was going to say. There's so many people who worked on that film that they will work on later on in The Matrix, such as like Bill Pope and Don Davis and Joe Pantoliano, who always plays himself in every film, and editor Zach Steinberg. He was in Congo. Was he? I believe he was. So was Bruce Campbell at the beginning. Ah! It's great. I don't want to see Congo.

33:16Oh, maybe. Yeah, you're right. He was in Congo. He wasn't. When was Congo made? 95. 95. The Joe Pantoliano heyday. Yeah, he was in Congo playing Eddie Fentero. Because I remember we watched Congo. Uncredited. After The Matrix. And I was like. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of those things like I didn't watch as many movies as well. So every, you know, if you see that, I was like, oh, Trinity. Oh. Yep. Oh. Yeah. Cypher in like Bad Boys. He's a couple. Oh. So in the meantime or after, they got to get concept art and storyboard artist Jeff Darrow, who I'm going to talk about some other time whenever we get to a design that he actually

33:57works. Okay, I'm unfamiliar with Jeff Darrow. He's the one who did those really detailed sketches and drawings. Oh, I love those. Yeah. Those are beautiful. And people thought that he was on drugs because of his weird, super highly, hyper-detailed pencil sketches. But man, those are phenomenal. His sketches are, wow. Like, that is just crazy. And then also, they also got the storyboard artist Steve Scorch. Scorch? Scorche. Not sure. Which we're going to talk about as well because I think he's quite an interesting person as well. And they were both kind of commissioned to help out with convincing to make this Matrix project work, you know, after Bound or before that. And allegedly, you know, they did the whole 600-page shot-for-shot storyboards for the Matrix

34:44film. So they can show that to Warner Brothers. And that's another funny thing. Because remember how, didn't you read that Peter Jackson book just really recently? And it's like, if you want to convince a studio... Yeah, it's called Peter Jackson, A Filmmaker's Journey by Brian Sibley. Yeah. It's good. And if you want to convince a studio about your concept, words, you can talk very, very long like what we're doing with this introduction. I don't even know how long this is going to be. And instead, you could just show them one picture and then they'll get it completely. And so the more pictures you have, the more visuals you can represent with your pitch, the more they'll be confident because they can see what you had in mind.

35:25So what they did with the Matrix, they did that. So Lorenzo Di Bonaventura was the CEO, the chairman of the board at Warner Brothers. Okay. And he's now a producer and I guess he likes producing more. And he produced stuff like Transformers and Shooter, Shooter and Red and Salt. Remember Salt? I remember Salt. I remember Salt. And then UGI Joes and he's doing Transformers. So he was president of Worldwide Production at WB and he got the Matrix signed off and he also got Harry Potter bought like the rights for Warner Brothers. So he's kind of like the Alan Ladd Jr. of Warner Brothers.

36:09Alan Ladd Jr. is the president of 20th Century Fox in the late 70s who got like Alien and Star Wars. Good man. Yeah. The Wachowskis wanted to do anime for real, you know, so they got, they took a lot of inspirations from the Matrix. Like everything that they loved, they said that they, they bundled together. So it's like their rich philosophy and filmmaking and Kung Fu action and anime and science fiction and, you know, and to their credit, I really have to say they did everything they set out to do like really well and perfectly got it out the way they wanted it. And that's really good.

36:49So. And I think it's also crazy how they actually managed to fit so much in the Matrix. Like you said, from all these elements that they liked. Yeah. Just one of those things, you know, it's in my opinion, it's like one of those lightning in a bottle films. Oh yeah. That it's just the perfect timing and the perfect blend of ingredients. It took them like 10 years to do, like to develop because of the, you know, everything they wanted to add in there. And it's kind of like Christopher Nolan with Inception, where it also took him like 10 years.

37:30He was just working on it forever because he wanted to have something. He had a strong idea for something. And these guys definitely got a strong idea for that as well. So, by the way, they were planning to make a trilogy. A trilogy, right? But in the end, wait, who is the company that, was it Warner Brothers? Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers. Village Roadshow. They were like, just do one. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And they're just going to make one. Did they write or plan any of the stuff for the sequels before number one? Or was it everything like, let's just make number one great. If it works, then we'll work hard on the sequels. Okay. So, from my research dictates that I think that they had a, like, huge story beats in

38:19mind where the Matrix will connect with the sequels. But I don't think that they got the specifics in order until later. The reason being was because I read a very early script of Matrix Reloaded, which was, like, from, I don't know, like, 2000 or something like that. Mm-hmm. And it had, just, like, completely different, but it had the same kind of general story beats, sort of. Okay. Like, there is, like, a, you know, like, the dark side of the one and the light side of the one. But instead, it's two Keanu's fighting each other. You know what I mean? With ponytails. Yeah. I remember that. And, yeah. And Agent Smith has a ponytail.

39:00And there's all kinds of other stuff that isn't in the final one, but that's sort of, but there's still these things that show you that they had something in mind after this. I think, though, if I remember, this could be, like, Phantom Visions, but I think I remember them making the first film with the intent of being standalone. I don't think there was ever an intent to make more movies unless it was successful. Well, yeah, that's sort of, I think that's a good approach for everybody. I think it definitely shows because it is packed with small elements and every single bit is so rich with, not specific references, but definitely inspiration from everything, from music to the visuals. I think it's a highly saturated movie in that sense.

39:43Very. But under the surface, like, unless you go looking for it, you wouldn't know. And that's all I want to have to say. They made The Matrix, and I think the way they got to that point was because they were very specific and... Let this be a lesson to you, future filmmakers. Be very specific with what you want and be able to clearly show what you want to do, you know? I think that's the big one. And also, you have to... What's that word? I always forget the word. What is the word you're looking for? I can help you. Where you have to, like, it's not what you want, but you have to, like, put, like, step back a few paces because... Compromise. Yes. Thank you. You have to compromise as well. And so it's this balancing act of compromise and being very specific and clear.

40:27Compromise for the betterment of the movie. Greater good. Yeah. Yeah. Because you never know. And cut your lovies. And cut your lovies. Always in the editing room. Always. Yeah. So that's all I have to say about the... Sweet. So that's the intro. Yeah. And now, if you want... Oh, wait. I have one more thing. I just wanted to say that Keanu Reeves was not their original choice. Oh, who was? I think I know. You know, they had all kinds of different guys. Will Smith? This was in the room, right? Will Smith. Yes. That was real. Yes. It was Will Smith or Johnny Depp. Yep. Yes. But... Johnny Depp I could maybe see. Yeah. Yeah. But it would be a different film. Will Smith would be like, what? I mean, we all know that he can do very good serious stuff.

41:08Yeah. He wasn't in that line. I think Will Smith. I think the... I don't know, man. I don't know. I can't see it. I think the dead face of Keanu really saw... I mean, maybe potentially if Johnny Depp would understand it, he could pull it off. But I think Keanu with his natural... He understood it. Well, can I just say, I actually love the fact that Keanu Reeves, which I didn't know until much later on, has a history of doing not Matrix kind of films? That's false. No. He did a bunch of stuff before, didn't he? He did 20B and he did... I wanted to tell you, Warner Brothers suggested strongly that Keanu Reeves should be Neo. Because... Very good call, though. What? Very good call. But that's the thing. That's why you always have to be open with other people's ideas.

41:50Because you never know, right? When someone shows up and actually... Especially if it's a studio paying the bills. They insisted for Keanu Reeves because he had a pretty good demographic appeal because of Johnny Mignonic. It's a science fiction film where he's a robot. I'm going to know about this. You don't know about this film called Johnny Mignonic? No. Well, yeah. It came out in like 1996 or 5. I haven't seen that. But the movie didn't do well, but they thought that he was doing well with like audience... I don't know how... I don't know how they find... This doesn't make sense. Yeah. I don't know how they find this. But the Wachowskis, they also... They were like, but he's from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. What... Like, how could we work with that? That's what I'm saying. But then again, you try it and...

42:31Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's what I love. And now you can't imagine anyone else being the one. What I love is it's a great example of just how, you know, an actor isn't always... He can do more than just the role. Than really bad British accents from Dracula. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. What if Neo was with a British accent? That'd be horrible because Keanu Reeves... I'm sorry. What is the Matrix? His accent. What is the Matrix? His accent is notoriously bad. YouTube it. It's amazing. So that's all I have to say. There you go. I just opened up the Matrix poster. I'm getting the tingles. Ah. Tingles. I'm getting the tingles. All right. Well, if you want to see us talk about the first minute... Well, not see us. Hear us.

43:11It's a podcast. Yes. Yes. Hear us. We didn't take the lesson. We didn't show one picture. We... We didn't. Spent half an hour. But anyway... Hey, it's an introduction. This is our introduction where we talked about what you heard. And if you want to listen to the actual content of the podcast, go to episode one. Because this is episode zero. We will be talking about the actual minute. But if you were listening with us so far, thank you so much for joining us. And we'll see you on the other side. I'm Phil. I'm Jake. Am I Tim? In a world of zeros and ones, are you a zero or are you the one? Is that the tagline? That's the tagline on the poster is the best. No. That's horrible. Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

43:52Amazing. Okay, we'll see you. Okay, do we cut now? Later. Bye. Thank you.