Minute 50: “Morpheus is fighting Neo!”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00The Matrix Minute, a podcast where we discuss the first film one minute at a time because we just love this movie. Hi, I'm Phil. You are... I'm Jacob. No trivia today. I'm Tim. And my trivia is that another country changed the name to translation in Slovenia. It's called Matriza. Wow, that's amazing. And with us is, for the third time, last time, so far. Sadly, we have Patrick Willems. Welcome back. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me once again. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, third time's the charm, hopefully. Oh, I mean, the other ones are amazing.

0:41The Trinity. We complete the Trinity here. Yes. It's a Lucky Charms Trinity serial. Oh, man. Lucky Charms. Hopefully this is not the Matrix Revolutions of my three episodes. Oh, man. Is it going to be like three scenes for three hours? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And your favorite character will barely be there. Exactly. You can decide who's the favorite character on this podcast. Yeah. Decide. We'll make a vote. Survey. It'll be really cruel. Yeah. We'll do a really cruel survey. By the way... Who's the what? Oh, God. The Mifune of the podcast.

1:22That's going up. Yeah. The Locke. The Mifune. Who else? And the kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the kid. Good one. Who's the new Oracle? Oh, man. Oh, that's so sad. I can be the new Oracle. See, that's sad. Oh, yeah. What was the first action? Gloria? Gloria Foster. And Mary Alice is the new one. The new one. Okay. Yeah, I was so bummed about that. I know. I love the first Oracle. I think we all kind of did. I'm not to say that the actress is bad for the second and third. No. I'm just saying that in context of the story. Yeah, yeah. It's so weird. It's one of those things that I personally have a weird thing about. I don't know. It's some kind of obsession or something.

2:03But when they change, like an actor in a series or something, it just bothers me so much. It bothers you. It's so weird. I don't know why. I mean, with the Oracles, it's like a totally inevitable. I mean, it was a necessary thing. But personally, I wish they'd gone in a very different direction with it. Yeah. Because she has a new body. And instead of being like, oh, another nice, older black woman. Yeah, repeating the same kind of traits. Right. I think they could try again. It's funny that they would mention it. Because if they just went, like, everyone's ignoring, it's a new actress, it's a movie, it's fine. People would be accepting that. But then they say, oh, look what they did to my face. And it's like, what? Slightly. That's weird. Right. Then change her to a man or something.

2:45You could do a drastic change where it kind of makes sense. Like, this was a bit weird. Right. Have it be like, I don't know, like a 20-year-old, I don't know, like an Indian woman. Right. Right. Anything. Yeah, that would have been a lot more interesting, especially considering what The Matrix is all about. Yeah, right. Yeah. Especially, I mean, these are the people who, like, made Cloud Atlas. Like, that kind of thing. There you go. Really makes sense. Yeah. It just strikes me as, like, kind of an odd choice. Like, let's get someone who, like, on paper fits all the same. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't seen Cloud Atlas. Should I? Yes. Okay.

3:25I really like it. It's very, I think it's different. And once you get into the zone, you can totally enjoy it. Because it doesn't, the sort of, like, the way the narration works, it kind of becomes, like, a really long, like, a TV series that you just binge watch. To me, in my head. Like, that's how I see it. It isn't, like, a classical structured movie. So, you're not really obsessed. Like, oh, where is it? Right. Or anything like that. So, it feels like this big experience. Right. Which works for this kind of, like, theme. Right. And also, assuming that, you know, you're interested in the work of the Wachowskis, this is, like, one of the most ambitious things they ever made. So, if you like them at all, you should watch it.

4:08You can watch Tom Hanks be all sorts of characters. Watch Hugh Grant as a post-apocalyptic cannibal. Wow. That sounds like something. Yes. That's pretty cool. I also read the book. The book, Cloud Atlas, is phenomenal. And they kind of work as nice companion pieces to each other. Wow. Because they cover the same ground, but the structure is totally different. Hmm. So, they're both great. Nice. Cool. Nice. Check it out. All right. I just have to... Okay, right. It's minute 50, but I just have to say, I just remembered that I said stupid things, and I gave out the wrong facts. Okay. On, like, one of the earlier episodes. The one pre-Patrick.

4:49Okay. Oh. And I said, I said, like, the concept artist, the concept artist... Jeff Darrow? No, not Jeff Darrow. Steve Scroess? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was... I love that you're correcting yourself and you don't know what. Wait, wait, no. I know, the real name is Tani Kunitake. He did the kind of... Painted artwork? Yeah, the painted stuff. And I... Oh, that guy. Yeah, and instead I said, I said, um... Kinu Nishimura, which is completely different. And it just... And I just had a brain fart there, so just in case. I love kind of patching my errors in retrospect because...

5:33I mean, if you can, why not? Yeah, I don't want to give people false information. That is true. Uh... As long as you don't... Lucas doesn't like... But Capri Sun's pretty good, right? Yeah. Yeah. Capri Sun's awesome. All right, so this is Minute 50. And Minute 50 comprises of... Morpheus fights Neo in the virtual dojo. And the rest of the crew gather to see the two beat each other up in style. And that's all that. Guys, you know what happens in this episode? What? Morpheus is fighting Neo. Morpheus is fighting Neo! That should be our quote. Okay, you guys ready to watch the... That's definitely a quote for the thing. Guys, I have so many things to say. All right. So much just to talk about. Perfect. With this scene with barely any dialogue. Go for it. Where do we begin? Okay, I think that right here, this moment, is a radical shift in American cinema.

6:19Okay. Oh. Go on. This right here. Manus strong words. I know, I know. Because, okay, so this is only really the second action scene in the movie. The first one is the opening scene. Yeah. Which is more of a chase scene. There's like a bit of kung fu, but it's not like a full-on fight scene. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And right here, this is this like, it's like a big, you know, martial arts fight between two guys. And in this scene, we have, you know, basically, if you look at American action movies before this scene, fight scenes are slower. They do not have choreography like this. They're not shot like this.

7:00There is no, you would have never seen American movie stars doing martial arts on this level shot like this in a way where you can see them all doing it. That's right. Like, it's never happened before. And after this, suddenly, like Hong Kong choreographers are being hired to choreograph every, you know, American action movie. It just became the standard. Mm-hmm. And right, and this is the scene where I think that changes it all because you've got Keanu Reeves and Laurence Fishburne just like doing it. And they look legit. And there's a lot of ways where the Matrix has like a pre and post, you know, like periods just in terms of American cinema.

7:41Right. And I think this scene, like on its own, changes a lot. Yeah. Because just like fight scenes became different after this. Especially also because it's authentic too, right? This is actual Hong Kong. Yeah, they trained. Oh, yeah, that too. Stylistically and technically speaking. Yeah, it's not just faking it. Yeah, it's not a copycat. It's not something like, oh, it's kind of close. This is actually sort of a transplant. You look at like, you know, like what was there before this in terms of great fight scenes? I mean, I- Punching in the face. Remember? Yeah, the punch in the face. Yeah. Remember they live when- One of the best fight scenes ever, but also very different.

8:21Yeah, where they're just punching each other in the face for about 10 minutes. It's that. And even things that got closer to martial arts, like the Paul W.S. Anderson Mortal Kombat movie from 95, that's still, you know, the fight scenes don't look as good as the Matrix. And for that, they were hiring some like actual martial arts stars and then just non-movie stars. Okay. I mean, look at even Power Rangers. I was going to say, you guys are forgetting. Blade. But was, there wasn't a lot of Kung Fu in the first one. There was a lot more in the second one, which came after the Matrix. Blade still has a bunch of fight scenes like near the end. Yeah. But, and it's funny, Blade gets talked, you know, it gets brought up in conversations,

9:06you know, a lot, usually regarding the rise of comic book movies in Hollywood. And which, you know, as much as it was kind of like a precursor to things, what my argument was always, the general public had no idea Blade was a comic book movie. Oh, yeah. That's true. So, that didn't, you know, you know, X-Men didn't get made because of Blade. Blade was kind of like, you know, that was the movie that people would be like, oh, wait, that was a comic? Right, right. So, that didn't really change things. It was like a surprise hit and kind of like, you know, it came out a year before the Matrix. And so, it didn't really, you know, the Matrix was already in production when that came out. And, and so, yeah, and Blade was, you know, yeah, Blade, I think, got closer, but it didn't,

9:51but the Matrix is what actually led to the change. It wasn't full on, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Right. And also, you know, the Matrix was just a much bigger hit than Blade. Oh, yeah, yeah. Blade was like a smaller hit. Yeah. Like a sleeper hit. In the 80s, there was this, you know, great popularity of martial arts, like karate and stuff like, you know, karate kid and all this stuff. So, it was in the popular culture as far as America, it's just really strange. I mean, there were some ninja movies and things like that, but in classical action movies, I remember in Lethal Weapons, Mel Gibson's character, younger guy, younger cop, and he does martial arts, he does some judo moves and stuff like that in the movie. There's a really good final fight scene between Mel Gibson and Gary Busey in the first Lethal Weapon.

10:31And that's also, it's a good fight scene, but it's not. It's not this. It's not, it's not, you know, what's it called? A, Hong Kong style, you know. Yeah. Right. This was them straight up being like, we want to take one of those, like, we will, you know, like a, like a drunken master or, you know, fist of legend, you know, style fight scene, but do it with movie stars. And they did. And I think they also embraced it, which is a difference too. It wasn't something like subtle. It was actually like, yeah, this is what we're doing. Yeah. And we're influenced by this and we're going to put this in. And we're also paying homage in a sense to that, but also incorporating it. Exactly. And I think it works nicely because the first full fight scene in the movie, it's not like

11:13they're in the matrix, like dressed up in coats and stuff like that. Yeah, that's a good point. It's like, it eases us into it because it's like, okay, wait, they're the entire visual language of the scene from the clothes to the, the, you know, the setting. It's all, it's almost like a mini action sequence that almost doesn't belong in the film in a sense. Like it's sort of like a little snippet. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's as if it's a musical number in a musical, you know, everything kind of stops for them to just do this cool thing. But yeah, but, and this gives us, you know, this gets us used to the Kung Fu. And so it's like, okay, we've seen them do it in like the Kung Fu setting. So now when they take that and then put it into, you know, like a subway station.

11:56I think we would be put off if we started off with the codes and then they kind of flew. Yeah. That would be like, okay. You don't, you don't have a point. Yeah, it's a really good point. Because you don't know it. But I think what you were mentioned, the, the, the master, the guy who taught them all, I think the idea, if I'm getting, I might be getting this wrong, so you guys correct me, but from behind the scenes, I mean, I don't know how they plan to have it. Maybe, you know, have some stunts, you know, have stuntmen and stuff like that. But he was very adamant to do it like the, the way that he does it. So he trained the entire choreography with the actors. So, you know, by the end, when, when they had the whole thing trained, they could shoot it exactly, everything would be seen, you know, with the actors' faces.

12:38And I think that's what was the big change as well. Yeah. You got the actual actors to actually train for four months and, um, with the actual Hong Kong stunt team to, um, perform these themselves. Who didn't understand English much. Yeah. Funny enough. They just, uh, they just went ahead and trained and trained and trained. Yeah. And it really pays off. It does. It's, yeah, this, uh, this scene, I mean, it's just a great, fun fight scene anyway, because there's no plot progression. It's really the point of this scene, uh, narratively is to, you know, show Neo discovering his new abilities for the first time. And, um, and then narratively it's nice because, you know, it gets us used to the visual vocabulary

13:22of just, you know, this kind of fighting. And, uh, and also it's a nice break from, you know, after like a, a lot of talking. Yeah. Let's, let's just punch each other for a few minutes. Yes. And then, and it's great because it functions that way, even within the world of the movie, the other characters are just like, great, a distraction, a fun distraction from like, you know, the monotony of our daily lives. Let's go watch this. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I love the camera work in this as well. There's this whole shot that's just a steadicam moving around and, uh, it's all shot in wides. There aren't too many cutaways either because this is all done. They all practice to do this. It's not, it's not cheating in any kind of way.

14:04And, um, there's a lot of wonderful compositions. Like, uh, there's this 90 degree angle shot of both of them kicking each other at the same time. And I don't know if you've noticed or not, but like, it makes like a yin yang kind of image. Oh yeah. The one from top, right? Yeah. The top. It's pretty sweet. That is cool. Just something I wanted to mention. Okay. So, so Patrick, you said you want to analyze this to death. Let's do it. So take us, take us, take us to the valley of shadows. Well, I mean, you know, unlike just like a filmmaking level, one thing, and I, you know, the camera work was just mentioned. And, and I think like what is really, what's really nice about it is that the camera work

14:47compliments the, uh, basically there's a choreography to the camera work in the same way that there is choreography to their movements. And it's, it didn't shoot this with like, oh, let's get just like a bunch of different angles and then cut them together. It's, you know, there's no coverage. It is, uh, every shot is planned and, and I wish every, I, I, I shouldn't say every, but like, I just, this is the kind of, uh, you know, shooting of, of fight scenes that I, I wish everyone would do because it's so, it's so kinetic. It's, uh, you know, every move is shot in like the way to make you feel that move the best, whether it's, oh, Neo is going to do this big jumping triple kick.

15:30We'll like cut to like a dollying wide shot for that. Oh, we'll cut in for this, like, you know, closeup when Morpheus like catches his foot. Like every, every move is, uh, is just, is just, you know, shown in the most exciting way possible. And, um, I love it. It's like, uh, it's just, I, I, I get such a kick out of it. And, um, and yeah, and, and they are these beautiful wide compositions, like the, like the shot where, you know, Morpheus does the, the little, like, you know, you know, come on, uh, gesture. And, um, it's shot with like this wide lens where like, you know, his hand is close to the, it's just, it's a beautifully framed composition. And, uh, the, I make such good use of the frame in this also. Yeah.

16:11I have nothing to like really, you know, comment on about this, but the, uh, Neo thumbing his nose is just the best. Isn't it? I think that came from a Bruce Lee, uh, move. Oh, okay. It's just when, when he does a little flick, but it's great because, you know, Neo doesn't, you know, smile at, no, here he's really like letting it go. He's having fun. Yeah. Yeah. You get to see, you know, you know, the, a rare moment of the characters having fun and, uh, kind of like also one thing that I, I love in, in the scene, I realized that a lot of this is just to be saying, I love this or this is the best. But when, you know, when mouse does the Morpheus is fighting, I love that switch runs over the

16:55table. Yeah. They're all, they're all just excited. This is so excited. Definitely. They rush. I love that moment because it's, yeah, that humanizes switch in a way nothing else in the movie does for me. Right. Just, uh, her being so excited. She just like, like climbs across the table. And what's great about it. It's great. She's freeze framing and the faces look at Trinity. She is flying through that window. Uh, even, well, okay. Uh, what's his face? Uh, Cypher in the back. He's not that excited. Yeah. Oh yeah. Even, even he exists. He's probably doing something evil in the back. Probably like, like, doing some sticks. Like, uh, elixirs. Poisoning their goop. There you go. Yeah.

17:35Dozer's pretty excited. It's just, his first attempt. But I just wanted to let you guys know, look what they're doing. They're, they're playing cards. Oh man. That never occurred to me. No way. Right? I've never seen that in my entire life. No, they're playing cards. That's amazing. And they're drinking, and they're drinking the hard alcohol. Yeah. The booze is there. Dude. You're completely right. I've never noticed this. Man, this, this does call for some side novels or something like that. Really. Yeah. Look at that. And also we get a wide shot of the kitchen we see later on with the, you see the goop dispensers in the back. And then there's also some kind of counter where, uh, Cypher is hanging out.

18:16So this is pretty cool. Yeah. I, I, I always just thought of like, you know, the excitement scene, but looking at now, I know this goes, it goes by way too fast. It's true. That was, yeah. I wonder if there was a deleted scene where they just, uh, you know, were hanging out playing cards. Probably not. You know, that's funny. Funny you mentioned that. Talking, is he the one? I don't know. Yeah. That's all I talk about. To be honest, like what you said about the fight scenes being so, you know, so well planned out and, you know, there was no need for coverage because they're using every shot, uh, in, you know, for its specific purpose. And, and I feel like the script itself, because it's had so many iterations of, of draft after draft that there were probably very, very few deleted scenes.

18:57And I think that's why they don't show up anywhere on any kind of DVD collection. Cause I think there isn't a lot. Yeah. I mean, with the fight scene, it's, it's hard to say because these are not in the script, you know, you don't really write. Oh, they're in the storyboards. In the storyboards, I guess. And then, you know, when they did choreographer, when they did training. So then, then they, because I remember, uh, looking at the behind the scenes and, and those choreographers who were working with each of them, you know, they actually, they were even, you know, doing coverage and doing how the camera works. And they were suggesting, cause from their style, like where the camera should be. And it was, it was pretty good because remember they did the, they did those, those VHS videos of all the fight scenes. Right. Yeah.

19:37Oh yeah. Yeah. The actual choreographers. And you can actually watch those on YouTube or on the behind the scenes. And they're really great because you can actually watch the entire scene. It's not Trinity and Neo or someone else. It's actually the choreographers doing the thing and they're using little props. It's basically a Swedish version. Yeah. It's like a Swedish version from a Be Kind Rewind. Yeah. I love Swedish movies. That's great. Patrick, did you make a Swedish film? Yeah. Did you make one? Um, I didn't. Uh, no, I remember like, uh, you know, opportunities would come up or there'd be contests or whatever. And, um, I have friends be like, you should do, you know, like, you know, friends who knew I was, you know, like, you know, made movies, be like, oh, you should do a Swedish thing. And I always thought it seemed fun, but I've just always, you know, working on something else.

20:21Right. And, uh, so, so no, I never did. But you did make Tommy Wiseau Batman. So I was very happy about that. I, I, I, that's, yeah, that's kind of a sweet, I mean, yeah. I've, I've obviously made videos and stuff that like, uh, you know, riff on existing movies and characters and stuff like that. But it's usually, you know, there's some other element to it. Usually like, you know, interpreting a thing through like a director who did not actually make it or that kind of thing. So what do you mean? Tommy Wiseau. Oh, you mean like that? I thought you meant didn't make it. What are you talking about? The room's the greatest thing. Tommy Wiseau has a chance of being at the Oscars.

21:01I just want to endorse publicly. Yes, he does. Are you aware of this? If, if that gets nominated, the, uh, the, the book, the disaster artist. That's what I want to endorse. That Franco was adapting. That is my most anticipated film of 2017. It looks good. If they get a nomination, they're going to bring Tommy Wiseau. Yes. Oh, man. And we're going to have a cutaway. That will be the most beautiful thing in the world. Just Tommy. And, and then when they interview him. And guys, you know he's actually going to be wearing a tuxedo. Of course. Oh, yes. It's probably a little, a little, a little, a little football somewhere hidden. Somewhere. Just so you can check it. But just think of it that because we, have you guys all read the disaster? Yes. Yes. It's amazing. It's an incredible book. And, um, and, and it does get like surprisingly moving at the end when he's there, like at

21:45the premiere and it's like, he's actually seeing himself on the big screen. And so to actually get to the Oscars, that would be this, like the weirdest realization of his dream. Yeah. Like that's so insane. And in the end, he'll just say, yeah, that was part of the plan, you know, right. Just, he'll just take it as his own credit and it'll be beautiful. It's the best. I love him. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, can you imagine if, um, because I feel like if anything that could, that could win like best adapted screenplay. I hope so. And, um, and, but, and, oh my God, can you imagine like Franco's, well, actually Franco didn't write it. And, um, yeah, I don't know the two guys who wrote, who wrote, um, uh, they wrote the

22:28spectacular now, uh, they wrote, um, was, uh, the fault in our stars, like a bunch of YA literary adaptations. And, um, yeah. Uh, and, but yeah, so, so they would, but, you know, they would like mention like, you know, Tommy and Greg, and then they would cut away to them like proudly in the audience. And that would, that would be it. And then it's like, almost like they would have to like, at, make like a new epilogue for the movie. Do you not think they would bring Tommy up on stage? No? No. Uh, no, they usually don't, but he would definitely be in the audience. That would be the best thing. Like cut away. I think if, if we're really, if we're reliving in a simulation, I think that's when the world

23:10would break. Like Tommy sitting in that chair and they, and it's not, and it's like, it won. You're going to say he's nominated, right? Not winning. Well, yeah. I mean, even if it's just nominated. Okay. Yeah. He'll still sit there if it's nominated. You know? Right. He will, he will absolutely be there. If he wins, then definitely universe breaks. That's what I'm saying. If they win, then they could all go up. Yeah. I mean, if they win, it's only for best picture that they would take everyone out. Oh no. Yeah. That's impossible. There's no way a comedy of that caliber would win best picture. As much as the movie is supposed to be, it's apparently really, really good. And, uh, I could, I could see a best picture nomination since they've got like, you know, like 10 slots, but it's not, it's not going to win. Yeah. No. I mean, two things win for the Oscars, for the best picture.

23:52One, it's something to do with like, it's a real story and it's like some kind of struggle or the other one is, it's got to do with Hollywood or movie making. Those are the most, that's for the last 10 years. That's the only thing that's winning. It's like a real story or it's like, you know, like Birdman or something like that when it's about the cinema or the history. Usually, but, and then, but then you'll get like, uh, you know, last year with like Moonlight and, um. But that's like another, like sort of like real world kind of, sure. That's, that's not, that's not a real person. I mean, that, that's very much like that, that movie does not win Oscars. Like that, that was an, an outlier, but that's also, I feel like them, like, um, you know, making an effort to like, let's not just, you know, like, it's about like valiant white

24:36people, like, like, you know, uh, uh, triumphing over like mild adversity. And, um, and so I don't know. So maybe that might continue with them being like, Hey, let's, we don't like comedies don't win. Uh, but also the disaster artist is about Hollywood and it is. So there's the, there's that chance. If, if there's enough dramatic and like, you know, soul heart tugging kind of moments, there'll be enough 50 year olds who might vote for it. Yeah. I mean, Seth Rogen going, you know, you know what I mean? It could have, like, I, I mean, I stopped watching the Oscars like six years ago. Uh, I just don't, I avoid the whole thing, but I would watch for that.

25:17You're in the right podcast here. They are hard to watch, man. I watch them like get drunk and laugh because this, this sort of like, I understand it because I'm not in, I mean, I'm not in the industry. So those awards mean absolutely zero to me, but I think for the people working in the industry, it means a lot to them. Oh, so, so, so they take it super seriously. But from as an outsider watching that, like there's zero connection because all that grandeur and all that emotion is like, it's completely not relatable because, you know, it's just, it's just, it's, it's just an award. It's going to help your studio to put on the DVD box, you know, to be honest. But obviously to them, it's something very important. Right. I mean, for me, it's, it's funny. I, I don't watch for a completely different reason.

25:58I, for like, I stopped watching because I, even when I tried not to, I, I cared too much about, about who won. And so every year I would find myself, cause like I have, I, you know, I have my opinions about all these movies and every year there'd be like, you know, cause it's, you know, it's all, it's, it's basically like a political race, but you know, with art and, and every year I'd find myself getting angry at movies that I, I liked because they beat movies that I, I liked more and I'd be like, why am I doing this? Like, uh, none of this matters. This is all pointless. Uh, this is, this is, you know, this is making me like, it's like, it's making me like movies less because I'm caring about this.

26:40And so if I ignore the entire award season and just watch the movies and, uh, not give a shit about like, Oh, what might get nominated? I, it's just, I, I, I have so much more fun. Um, and, uh, that I, I like, I, I get, I have friends who just like love the absurd pageantry of it all. Right. And like the ridiculousness of, of like the campaigning and like, who's going to win this year. And I kind of get that, but that's the thing. It's just like, it was making me angry at movies. Yeah. And I didn't like that. I get it. I get angry at people who take it seriously. Like if you go online and you read it and people use these words like, uh, and nods or, uh, what's the other one when they, when they don't give them a nod, the snubbed snubbed

27:23snubbed. Oh, those words just trigger me so hard. And I'm like, what do you guys think? What is this? They're like, they, like they sit there and they go like, you know what? We'll give this one a nod because it was a good movie, but this one will snub it because, because Mexican, like what, what, what, what, what, what did they just vote? That's it. People vote in that stupid academy and that's it. And then the, the, the mouth has the most wins. That's it. And especially because, you know, for so long and they're actively trying to change it by like, you know, getting a more, you know, uh, adding more, you know, younger people to the, the academy, but, but the academy, it's not just like, you know, oh, what movies like,

28:04you know, appeal to like crowds the most. It's what movies appeal to a bunch of predominantly old white men. Yeah. That's the most boring taste. It's their opinion that wins. Like you can't explain, like people say like this one should have won. Like, what do you mean it should have won? It's the opinion. It's not a, it's not a, like a popularity test that everyone gets to vote. You don't get to vote. So like, you shouldn't be upset if that didn't win. That's what, of course, the thing that, that like, that is the best will very rarely win. So it's like, I, so yeah, so I just, I, I ignore it all. And, um, I actually, um, was it, uh, two, two years ago, no, three years ago on Oscar

28:45Sunday, instead of watching the Oscars, I hosted, I invited like a ton of people over and hosted a marathon of the first six fast and furious movies at my apartment. Nice. And, uh, and we just, it was just, we just like drank Corona's all day and watched like 13 hours of, of movies that have never been nominated for Oscars. Holy crap. And it was the best counter-programming I could possibly do. That's amazing. I started, uh, this year, well, actually last year, um, instead of, you know, I don't never bet on anything like sports or anything, but in the actual betting offices, you can bet on the Oscars. Really? So I take like $10 and I bet on the, on the Oscars. It's hilarious because it completely elevates and my friend does it as well.

29:26So I kind of bet against them just to prove them wrong. They just know anything, but it's, it's, it's, it's a funny experience. That's crazy. Wow. That's something. And I got totally destroyed by the way, like, uh, last year, nothing I predicted came true. Oh, that's too bad. Well, um. Hopefully you're not in debt from those bets. Just bet on the disaster artists for this year. That's right. Yes, that's right. The $10 are gone, but it's okay. I can't, I'm okay with that. I'm not going to put hundreds on this. Well, the Matrix won some Oscars, so that's cool. By the way, tell me which Oscars is it won. Four. Four for what? Uh, editing, sound, visual effects. Uh, uh, wow. The other ones. And it also won Best Picture Award. The other one. Sound editing? Sound editing, yeah. In the parallel universe. It won Best Picture. There's two Sound Awards.

30:07Yeah. Okay, and guys. Suicide Squad got an Oscar win for her. Yeah, that's great. Makeup. And wait, so, and, and, cause you, uh, you guys should know this. Uh, who accepted the awards for each? All right. John Gata with special effects. Uh, Dan A. Davis did the sound, so he was up there. Um, I keep forgetting. Editing is Zach Steinberg. Um, and what's the fourth one? What is the fourth one? I didn't catch it. Was it sound editing? This is the one I also don't know. Was it, is there, is there sound design and sound editing, or is those the same? Uh, it sounds like it's probably the same, I think. Sound design. I mean, it should have been cinematography, but, you know. It wasn't even nominated for cinematography? No.

30:48I don't think, okay, let's see. I think it won everything it was nominated for. Bill Pope was so snubbed. Sorry, he used that word. It's okay. But he really was. I learned to live with it. That's true. I learned to live with it. And that's the kind of thing, like, that's why I can't give a shit about the Oscars, because it's like, how do you, like. You have to separate the craft from the content of the film. But I understand. I understand. So, Academy Awards got film editing, Zach Steinberg, okay, sound. And also the Oscars are dependent on the context of when the movies came out. Right. I bet the following year they were kicking themselves about not nominating the Oscars. It's based on, like, sort of, like, also cultural things, like, you know, what's happening, especially, like, in the news and things like that. I think that has a huge effect on.

31:30And also, back then, there were, that was in the days of just five Best Picture nominees, you know, before. What is it now? They realized. Basically, after, in, after 2009, because the year that a lot of people thought The Dark Knight was going to get nominated, and then it didn't, and they realized, oh, we would have had a lot more viewers if the biggest movie of the year, there was also a big critical success, had been nominated. Right. And, because it, because it did win, you know, Oscars, just like, just not, and so then they're like, let's make it 10 nominees. Ah, I see. And that's, and that's how you get, you know, things like, like, Mad Max getting nominated. Right.

32:11Okay. And, which, which was sort of like, I watched some clips, like, afterwards, which was kind of like The Matrix in that, you know, like, when The Matrix, like, won a bunch of stuff, you'd get these just, like, pale weirdos going up and accepting the awards and being like, you know, and, and there is no spoon and stuff like that. And then, you know, and when Mad Max wins the stuff, you get these, like, bonkers, like, looking Australian people, you know, going up and just, like, who have clearly never been to the Academy Awards before. And, and that's, and I love that kind of thing. Yeah, that makes it fun. But it happens so, but it was literally, like, 15 years later. Yeah. Yeah. That, um, that you got that sort of, the sort of thing where you had a movie that was,

32:54like, you know, a crazy genre film. Yeah. That also was, like, a big critical success. I guess, Lord of the Rings, Peter Jackson, that was also unusual. True. That was a big thing, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was an unusual win. That was an odd thing in that it was still, like, they were still prestige movies. They were, like, released during awards season. True. And stuff like that. And treated almost as if they were, like, historical epics. They were just fantasy films. Yeah, I think that's a good point. Made by the guy who made Dead Alive. One of the best movies. I think it helped that was, like, Tolkien and that he, it wasn't, if it wasn't based on anything, I don't think they would have won. True, maybe, yeah. Maybe it gave it some levity with that. Yeah. It's, like, they were fantasy films. They were also, like, prestige literary adaptations. Yeah. I guess I'm just saying it's unusual for someone like Peter Jackson, a New Zealand filmmaker,

33:36to go up on stage and be in that milieu when it's not really. Oh, it's crazy. Especially for the best picture, you know, the main one. Yeah, exactly. Guys, can I radically change the subject and bring it back to the scene? Absolutely. I would love that. Let's go back to the beginning. Because I am always holding my tongue, and I'm always going, I gotta figure out a way to talk about going back to The Matrix, but thank you for pointing that out at me. I'm just gonna do it, like, inelegantly. Just, you know, with no smooth transition, because we mentioned this early on. Someone said they wanted to talk about the music, and I was like, I want to talk about the music, too, because I want to talk about the song Leave You Far Behind by Lunatic Calm, that I thought was the coolest song in the world when I was in middle school. And that was also...

34:17Yeah. Yeah. So you're like... Yeah. Because it was also, as you probably remember, used in the band teaser trailer for the first Spider-Man. Spider-Man. I was going to say Spider-Man. That was in the trailer. Teaser trailer. Yeah. Which is one of the great trailers ever. I can't remember. I remember the music was in it, and they left the vocals, I think. It's the one... It's just... It's like a short film. It's all stuff not in the movie. It's like this... There's a bank robbery. Yes, that one. And the bank robbers escape in a helicopter, and then all of a sudden, like, their helicopter in midair stops, and then it gets, like, pulled backwards. And then... And it was such a great idea, and the timing was so unfortunate. Oh, yes. Yes, I know. They reveal that it's stuck in a big web between the two towers of the World Trade Center.

34:59And then the song kicks in, and it goes, like, next summer, and you see Spider-Man. Yeah. And then there's the text that's like, go for the ultimate spin. The ultimate spin. And then you see shots of him, like, web-slinging. And, yeah, it got to be in theaters for, like, a month. Yeah. It was, I believe... It was released in theaters with everyone's favorite film of 2001, Final Fantasy The Spirits Within. Yeah. Oh, classic. And, yeah. It's a classic. Yeah. And I was... There was no movie in the world more important to me than Spider-Man back then, so I remember this all very well. But, yeah. But it was the same song that was used in The Matrix.

35:40And I remember me being, you know, I don't know, like, a 12-year-old searching on, like, Kazaa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or one of those things. And because I was like, I've got to find the song from, like, from the Spider-Man trailer that's also the song from The Matrix. Yeah. And also, a lot of the Matrix soundtrack was, like, stuff that I couldn't get really into because I was like, I'm not going to listen, like, I'm not into, like, Deftones or Monster Magnet or stuff like that. And... But this was... I could get behind this one. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's very important. Like, the music that was in The Matrix. Funny, I remember people, you know, just, like, sort of, like, what is that? Was it drum and bass or stuff like that?

36:22But that, as far, you know, like, the digital grading or any of the other elements that influenced movie cinema, especially action movies and sci-fi movies, therefore, I think using the big, sort of, like, the big beat or, like, the break music in movies as action movies wasn't done before that a lot. And definitely after 1991, for about up until 2005, until, like, before Hans Zimmer started doing his stuff, that was the go-to music for any action. Yeah. It was just, like, really, like, break beat kind of... Here's what I would say, though. ...high sampled stuff. Yeah. What do you want to say? I wanted to say that I think the reason why tracks like this one, like, The Cool Song,

37:03work in... The Cool Song. That's what I call it. The official title. I call it The Cool Song. It's not the official title. It's my title. I think why it works in a film like this is because, to me, it's tastefully using a specific genre of music. And I always got the impression that, let's say, the Wachowskis, that they maybe even listen to stuff like that, like Dex, drums, and rock and roll from the Propeller Heads and things like that. Oh, yeah. Good album. Yeah. It's an amazing album. I feel like... Yeah, there's an episode. I feel like, again, that's an extension of themselves in some sense. I'm not sure about this track and this scene, but that's the feeling, I think, that has always been conveyed to me, where it's not just for the sake of being like, oh, this is a cool song. It's usually here.

37:44Because I think a lot of movies do that. A lot of movies do that where it's like, let's just use whatever is popular. Let's leave it and put it in. It'll be great. But I think that's why it works here. And especially this version, because it's vocal-less. And I think that helps a lot. Because I feel like if there was vocals, that would completely take you out of the moment. I mean, there's vocals in the song. It's just they cut the piece where there's no vocals. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying like... Right. Okay, okay. In this context, there is a lot of vocals. I just don't want to take you out. Yeah, that'd be horrible. That'd be funny. I don't know. That'd be hilarious. I wouldn't like it. But it is like... That works fine for like... Like, that part is included in the Spider-Man trailer. Yeah. But there's also... You know, it's a trailer.

38:24It would be distracting if it were here. Exactly. Yeah, no. The music is used really effectively. It's also interesting because a lot of the stuff on the soundtrack isn't in the movie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And there's like... Inspired by... Right. And there's stuff like, you know, the songs on the soundtrack that are in the movie, there's like, you know, like Dragula and Minefields and... Some ministry stuff. And is the ministry stuff actually in the movie? No. Bad Blood isn't at all in the movie. Because in the club, you have... It's Dragula and Minefields. Yes. From Prodigy. And then... And... Let's see. You have the... I think... I'm more of a... I'm more of a score guy, so I keep forgetting the song names.

39:06Yeah. Club to Death. It's also funny because it sounds like it could be just part of the score. But it is like, you know, like, you know, licensed music. And then there's, you know, Leave You Far Behind. There's, what is it? Prime Audio Soup. Yeah, that was used to... By Meat Beat Manifesto. When they're like, going to see the Oracle. Yeah. And then there's Spy Break. Classic. And then nothing... Then I think it's just... Just Rage Against the Machine at the end. Then Wake Up. Yeah. And... But yeah. And those are, like, the only real, like, you know, songs used during the context of the film. And they're used really effectively.

39:48Yeah. And I think the songs that are used in the movie, besides, let's say, Wake Up. You know, the other stuff, like, Deftones and Rammstein. And they're just, like, they were already popular. Because they were, like, songs that were released, like, a year before. So they were used to kind of gain, like, the kind of vibe and the popularity. But the songs, like, you know, from the Lune to Calm and everything. I think they were songs that the Wachowskis actually liked. Because they were a bit from the... A little bit underground scene. Those were not popular at that moment. And I think Matrix did that sort of specific style of music. It did even for movies. But even just in the general kind of, you know... It brought it up. ...culture. It kind of... Yeah. It brought it up. And a lot of people got exposed to that.

40:28Like us, as kids. I didn't hear music before. I was in, like, a very, like, Christian, evangelical kind of stuff. And, like, the hardest thing I've heard was DC Talk at the time. Yeah, DC Talk. And, like, I went straight into Deftones. And I was, like, I was in love with all this music. Yeah. I feel like you could do... I mean, I know you're going minute by minute. Not discussing, like, aspects of the movie. But you could do, like, whole episodes on just the soundtrack. Right. And, uh, it's also funny how dated the Reloaded soundtrack is. Ooh. Like, the Reloaded soundtrack... I've seen the Reloaded soundtrack in a long while. Oh, good point. There's a lot of, like, nu metal on it. Oh, there's the P.O.D.

41:08It's, like, P.O.D. Yeah, it's got, like, P.O.D. and Linkin Park on there. Right. That's right. And, um... Is it, like, an original song they wrote or no? No. No, no, no. I don't know. Okay, I don't mind. And, um... But, yeah. And I feel like the first movie soundtrack... ...has aged a bit better. Yes. Oh, there's Team Sleep on this, actually. Oh, okay. Well, you know what? I think it's fine not seeing this in a while. I have to say, if we ever, like, at the end of our Matrix minute line, and we're at the end and we do just extra episodes, like, what we're planning to do... Because we're not going through the second and third one minute by minute. Right. There isn't quite an audience for that. No, not... Yeah, we're not ready to shoot ourselves in the head yet. Yeah. Insane.

41:48So, we probably... We're not a mess of his to go there for that. We would do, like, the reviews and stuff like that after that. Like a bonus episode. Yeah, bonus episodes that are, like, two hours long or whatever. And, yeah, if we... Right. You know, maybe we can invite you to talk about those as well sometime way later when we're done with this. I mean, look, I'll talk about anything involving the Matrix. Perfect. Yeah. I'm in for whatever. Okay. It doesn't matter. So, that's a yes. But, yes, like soundtrack, you know, cinematography. We should do that. We should do the bonus episodes. That sounds great. Yeah, it sounds fun. We could do, like, sort of, like, aspects like you mentioned, Patrick. That'd be cool. If the people like to listen. If the people... Take our survey.

42:30Yeah. Kidding. Yeah. We do have a survey, actually. We do. Should we plug it again? Leave comments. Tweet at us. Tell us what you want. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, there's one more little bit of lining. Lining? What am I saying? A little bit of... What? Well, just the lines that Morpheus says. Okay. Because I can't say dialogue because he's not, you know, no one's talking with Morpheus, but, like, he says improvisation and... Adaptation. There we go. Adaptation. Adaptation, improvisation, but your weakness is not your weakness. That line confused me for you. Oh, yeah, that's what I was saying. Yes. Why did it confuse you, Jake? And the other qualities. It confused me because... And the other just kind of nods. Yeah, he's just like, okay, I understand. Sure, whatever. Can you repeat the line of what Morpheus says? Adaptation, improvisation, but your weakness is not your technique. That confused me for years.

43:10Your weakness is not your technique. No, so that means that everything that they uploaded into his brain... Oh, I see. So that's not the problem. That's not the problem. The problem isn't the uploaded techniques, but there's something else. Yes. He has not quite gotten, you know, like a, you know, gained sight of what he can do. Yeah. He's using all the techniques, but he's not getting the bigger picture. Basically, techniques aren't enough. Yeah. Bend those rules, Neo. Yeah, man. That's right. But he's just having so much fun just, you know, practicing his newfound kung fu abilities. What about Keanu Reeves' ad-lib motion that he has with his little telephone symbol? Oh, you mean the nose? Not the nose.

43:51We talked about that. We talked about the nose. Yeah, sorry. Well, he's a fan of phoning. I don't know. I like that. It's the best. It's like, what a great little moment. It's just, it's so much fun. It's just like, that's the thing. It's like, you know, we don't see these characters have fun or even do like, and this is not a knock in the movie, but do things that are like identifiably human. Yeah. A lot. Yes. And so things like that, you know, that's like what I would do if I was like, if I could do kung fu when I was sparring with a friend, I'd be like, yeah, you know, thumb my nose at him. Yeah, man. And yeah, it's cool. It's great. I love it. Yep. The scene's a really good scene. For you guys. So if you had the ability to load up any skill you can in the Matrix, what's the first thing

44:35you would do? Wow. What would you load up? What was the skill? Any, you could put any skill you want, you know, like you go to Tank and he's got this whole library of my skill. Anything you would learn in like, you know, in the blink of an eye. I think, I think, can you eat in the, you can't eat in the Matrix. I mean, you can, but it's not gonna. Yeah. It's not gonna nourish you. You want a skill of eating? No. Or you wanna cook? No, I mean, like being like the ultimate chef and just knowing how to make the best food. Oh, yeah. Nice. That's a great answer. Right? That is a good answer. That's such a good answer. And, yeah. I would definitely go for some Petrucci soloing. Guitar. Just so I could watch my hands go like crazy. That would be cool. Be like a super proficient musician or guitarist.

45:16Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, I mean, I'm not really trying to think. It's like. What would you do? Well, what if I could just become a professional athlete? If I could just be like, I'm gonna become like the world's best tennis player. But that would be fun though. Wow. Yeah. To actually have those skills. And then. Yeah. Yeah. Discovering the skill as you do them. That would be amazing. Because you don't have memory of them doing it. You just have a memory of how to. Well, that, you know, gets into the argument of talking how brains work. And we're not gonna. Yeah. And also getting too into this. I'm thinking practically. Well, like, hey, for my line of work. Gaining like complete, perfect cinematography skills. Yeah. Would be great. Yeah. Because then I'd be the best at it. And. But yeah.

45:57But I don't know. I wouldn't know all the After Effects shortcuts. Yeah. And hey, I already know a lot of those keyboard shortcuts. I'm good there. Very good. But. No, there's plenty. I don't know. There's a ton of skills you could learn in the Matrix. That would really improve. But would they be useful to the workflow? Yeah. But I'm torn between like, you know, what would be best for what I currently do. What I could make the most money from doing. And then like cooking, which might be just like beneficial the most to my daily life. Right. Right. It's a great answer. Or just ask Tank to download the entire Wikipedia into your head. And you can just reference it. To be honest, I wouldn't do that. Because it would just make things boring. I don't know. Oh, yeah. You'd know everything. Yeah. You'd know everything.

46:37Like, oh, well, that's not cool. That's not interesting. You get sad like Neo does when he knows everything. I think I get sad. In the sequels. I get sad. Yeah. Maybe that's why Neo is kind of sad. Because he knows everything. He just knows too much. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, if there's anything else you want to say about this minute. Anything else? Speak now forever. Hold your peace. Any other things we missed? Any details? The thing is that if I knew Kung Fu, I could tell you about all these moves and how... Right. Honestly, all I can say is they look amazing. Just watch it. Because I've been watching it the entire time we're talking about on loop. And the funny thing is some pieces you can clearly see that it's a rehearsed thing and you can watch Morpheus or Neo look at their moves in their hands.

47:20But for the most part, like 80%, after watching it like, what, 100 times right now, it still feels very fluent and very real. And you can see their distinct styles. And you can see both of their motivations. You know, Morpheus is very on the defense. He goes for like a little attack. And then he goes to defense the entire time. He's like, he kind of probes Neo. Yeah. Like, come at me. And then he's just full on defense. He's like, do, do, do, do, do. And then he gives a little kick. And then he goes back. You know, like, when you're trying to like, what's that word? You know, try to get someone in a fight. You know, you kind of push him. And then you wait for it to go back. And you kind of escalate it. So that's a really nice dynamic how he works.

48:00And he kind of, you know, gets fed up again. And he just kind of pushes him a bit more. Yeah. It's great that you actually brought this up. Because I'm sure like martial arts films, when it comes to doing choreography with the people who know it the best, right? The choreographers and the, you know, the martial arts experts. I think that what they do is they do try to tell a story through the fights as well. Like to show the personality of the characters coming through. And what the intentions are when these different moves are being executed. Yeah. I think that's like what you can actually see with Morpheus and Neo. You can see what Neo's doing. And you can see just by Morpheus' actions with, you know, the moves that he's dodging and his general complexion.

48:46Not complexion, but general. His skin complexion. It's very nice. Beautiful. It's a nice matte finish. Yeah. That, you know, he's, that you can get a story out of it. Like what Tim was saying. Like you can just see that he's trying to test Neo and trying to get him to ascend. And to ascend to his heart. Yeah. Because otherwise you can't just string a bunch of cool moves in a row and then expect it to look good. I mean, we did that in our movies and that kind of sucked. Oh yeah. That was great. Right. I mean, to have, maybe you're viewing for the first time, you might not notice this, but it definitely helps sell the whole thing. Because subconsciously you're, you know, your, your mind and your eyes all register all these things. And it just makes it much more real and much more enjoyable as a fight.

49:27And, you know, and those, you know, the hand gestures and everything, that's, those are great additions to spice it up, to give it a character. But just watching the entire scene is, is very lovely. Indeed. Delightful. Patrick? I agree. Excellent. I concur with all of that. Yeah. I thought, I thought we lost you in the other. Way thought we lost you. Gone. I've talked a lot. I decided I'd let you guys cover that part. Thank you. Very nice. Yeah. And that's, I think we covered everything that we could think of. And I think that concludes our episode. Yeah. Minute 50. Patrick. Unfortunately, there's nothing too significant in the 1996 script to bring up. That's sad.

50:08I miss that. You just have to listen to the other podcasts. Patrick, once again, thank you so much for hanging out with us. It has been a blast. I really enjoyed it. I've had such a good time. Yeah. I'm glad. You guys, you three are great people to discuss The Matrix with. Thank you. Well, thank you very much. We enjoyed your stay very much. Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. Oh, no. Absolutely. Anytime. And you're welcome back, of course. So if you want to talk more cinematography, anything, anytime. Just, yeah. You know how to reach me. Absolutely. Just let me know and I'll be here for you. All right, man. And that's it. Thanks, guys, for listening. Thank you for enduring these unusually long episodes.

50:49Mm-hmm. And you can get us at thematrixminute.one. That's the website. Then you can... You can buy us there. Yeah, you can buy us there and you can comment and stuff like that on the page, which is The Matrix Minute, all one word. And Twitter, at The Matrix Minute, it's all The Matrix Minutes. And if it isn't, there's .1 for the URL. If there isn't, make it and then give it to us. And once more, one final time, Patrick, you may speak as well. Where can we find you? So you can find me. You can find all the stuff that I make, including two videos analyzing aspects of The Matrix at youtube.com slash Patrick H. Willems.

51:31And then I'm on all the social medias at Patrick H. Willems. Woo-hoo! Awesome. Thanks again. Thanks for listening. And that about wraps it up. That about wraps it up. Catch you guys next week. Y'all have a nice weekend. Yep. Enjoy. Don't get to party too much because you might end up in that weird club with drop-down. Yeah. Yep. All right, see ya.