Minute 42: “Fate it seems is not without a sense of irony.”

Transcript

Transcribed automatically from the audio, and imperfect for it — names and punchlines suffer worst. Useful for finding a moment, not for quoting one.

0:00Welcome to The Matrix Minute, a podcast where we discuss the first film one minute at a time because we just love this movie, you know? Hi, I'm Phil. I'm back. It's Minute 42 and this is the second time that Lawrence Fishburne plays a captain of a ship. Last time was in Event Horizon. Hello everyone, my name is Jake and I never have trivia. You never do. You never prepare, Jacob. You never prepare. I'm sorry. Tim, what about you? We appreciate you, Jacob. Um, I'm Tim and I just returned from a beer expo where I tried nine different craft beers, so I apologize if I can't speak words properly.

0:40And with us is yet another guest and this time it's a guest that has been doing this as well. Part of the Movies by Minutes sort of like, what is it, movement, could you say? Perhaps something like that? Revolution. It's Gary Roby. Roby. Hello. Is it Roby? It's Roby. You got it right the first time. I am so delighted. I'm so glad. Welcome aboard. Welcome aboard. Thanks for having me. Good to have you. And you do Ferris Bueller Minute. Ferris Bueller's Minute off, I think it is. Yes. That's right. As well as Harry Potter Minute, which is on break right now, but that's coming back pretty soon.

1:22Yeah. It's going to be great. Wait, you doing the Harry Potters? Oh yeah. Yeah, we did Sorcerer's Stone over the last year. We wrapped that in like June. And I think November is our goal for Chamber of Secrets. So I have a question though. That's a big commitment, man. Oh yeah. That's a, that's going to take a while, man. Yeah. I'm- Are you ready for this? Are you ready for this? I'm kind of excited about it. It's, it's interesting because we're taking breaks between each season and doing other things. It feels like waiting for the next book to come out or waiting for the next movie when we're on break. That's a good point. And so this, there's this like anticipation. I'm, I'm so eager to like go back and just like really dig through the next one, you know? Right. And are you like a big fan of the movies or like, what's your angle there on that?

2:04You know, I, I was a huge fan of the books, right? Growing up, I, I went and got all the midnight releases when the books came out. And then I went and saw all the movies, the weekends that those came out. And, uh, it's probably been, I don't think I've reread the series since Deathly Hallows released. Dude, that's like 10 years ago. That's a while ago. I know. I know. Don't tell me that. That's crazy. You should go. Okay. It was yesterday. It's good. Thanks. But I read, um, or I've, I've seen the movies countless times. I revisit them a couple of times a year, I think. Nice. And I don't know. It's been fun. We'd have a weekend edition that we've been doing for Harry Potter where we're going through the books chapter by chapter. And so it's a nice excuse to go back and reread those and kind of compare what's going on between the two stories. Yeah. And also like get information for the minutes. It's a lot of fun. It's fun.

2:44Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. But this isn't about Harry Potter, unfortunately. No. This is about. I got some questions, but I'll, I'll leave it. I'll leave it. This is about the Matrix. And this is the universal question that we have to ask everyone who is brought to our podcast. Has Neo visited Hogwarts in Orlando, Florida? Is Neo wizard? Is he? Is he an Animagus? Wait. Okay. So which house would Neo go to? I think Neo would be a Gryffindor. Really? Oh, yes. Obviously. Yes. He's, he's the one, the hero. The Morpheus. Morpheus is like a Ravenclaw. He's a, he's a Hufflepuff. I think I'd put Morpheus.

3:25Hufflepuff? And Ravenclaw. Yeah. I think Ravenclaw. Yeah, Ravenclaw. But then again, his. I think Trinity would be a Gryffindor too, though. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess they're the heroes. Maybe Switch would be Hufflepuff. Come on. What? I could see that. Mouse is a Hufflepuff. Yeah. Mouse is totally a Hufflepuff. He's the Hufflepuffiest. He was born. Yep. Yeah. To Puff and Huff. Isn't that that? That sounds like a drug, my friend. The old Puff and Huff. The old Huff and Puff. So what were you going to say? Are you talking? I was just making stupid jokes. I just wanted to say, how were you introduced to the Matrix? And what does it mean to you? I don't know. This feels like a big confession.

4:05It's not like a huge thing. But I think the Matrix was the first R-rated movie I watched. Oh. Okay. Awesome. Because I was eight, I think, when the movie came out. And I, of course, wasn't allowed to watch it, right? No. My mom worked at a Blockbuster, though. So she rented it when it came out. And so I remember, like, not being, like, I'm supposed to be in bed and they're watching it downstairs. And I remember, like, sitting on the staircase, like, peeking over and just, like, watching it from behind them. And not understanding anything, really. But it was kind of this mind-blowing thing. And it was a movie that I watched a lot growing up.

4:46I feel like it influenced a lot of, like, my interests in not only technology and, like, the, especially now with, like, AI and virtual reality stuff, like, happening. But also, like, philosophy as well. Like, what is real and how can we, I think I missed it. Was it, I don't know if it's last week. Yeah, I think it was last week on your show. The, what is real if reality is just electrical signals interpreted by your brain, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a good introductory thing. Yeah. It's sort of like Philosophy 101. It's like, it's like my first philosophy movie to watch. You know, an introduction. Which is nice because, like, the ideas, I think, are kind of clear, like, to tell they're asking these questions.

5:27Very standard. So you grew up at The Matrix. You watched it as a kid, right? Yeah. But then when the sequels came out. I, I enjoyed the sequels. I still don't think I was old enough to really conceptually, like, understand what was going on. Yeah. And then it took me, I don't think it was until after I graduated that I went back and rewatched them. So within the last, like, six or seven years. And now, like, because I knew I was going to be on the show and I've been really excited, I've been watching the movies and, like, reading the comics and kind of digging into that. You are awesome. You are more dedicated than I am. And I'm a co-host. As a movies by minute.

6:07I mean, it's because, it's because I'm the one that does all this for our show. Because, because Victoria, as much as I love her and she's a great co-host, like, she just rolls up and just drops this amazing knowledge that she doesn't have to look up. And I'm just like, how do you do this? It blows my mind. And so me, I'm just, like, watching everything and reading everything and trying to kind of immerse myself in it. Yeah, you said you watched the first Harry Potter movie, like, at least a dozen times. Oh, my goodness. To be able to just. That's, that's not, no, that's not. I don't know if I'll do that for Chamber of Secrets. No, I don't think. But I think it was because I was. It was the first, first, you know, it was the first Movies by Minutes show that we started. And we knew that Scott Corelli from Dueling Genre had offered us a spot on the show, like, on their network.

6:54And so I really, really wanted to be, Back to the Future Minute was one of the first ones I started listening to. And so I really wanted to. Do it right. Kind of, I wanted to sound like I knew what I was talking about, right? Yeah. So, but I don't know. I've definitely, like, eased off of that a bit, I think. Yeah, join the chill side. Yeah, I think you also probably change your approach. The more you do it, you kind of learn new things and figure out new ways to do. Yeah, exactly. And stuff like that. So it always ends up being something different than you expected, basically. I would say. Absolutely. So, yeah. Awesome. So that's The Matrix. That's The Matrix, as told by Gary Roby. Oh, boy. All right. Cool. Well, I think we can get into the minute, probably. If you would like.

7:35Yes. Yes? It's all good? Yes. Let's do it. All right, let's do it. Awesome. This is Minute 42. And in Minute 42, Morpheus's history lesson continues as he tells Neo about this singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines. No one knows who struck first, us or them, but they know it was them that darkened the sky, believing the solar-powered machines would be destroyed. The machines eventually won and took humans in as their own power source instead. Morpheus explains the capacity of the human body's energy as we see the machines growing human embryos in a sickeningly insect-like construct. And this is Minute 42.

8:16And it's the meaning of life, but it's also a really, really big episode that we might spend hours talking about. I hope you're ready, Gary. Seven and a half hours, in fact. Are you ready, Gary? I'm very ready. I'm so ready. I was born ready. I'm kidding. All right. So. Welcome, everybody. Where do we begin? All right. So this is Morpheus's huge, big history lesson. And it's only one minute long, so that's very good. Congrats on condensing that so quickly. How can you even begin talking about this when this is sort of like the history lesson of how the machines and the humans fought against each other? Mm-hmm. And what happens in the movie right now is that he's honestly just telling us bits and

9:02pieces of information. And it just, in a few sentences, you get the big picture. But what they did was, and now you can't really talk about this without talking about the Animatrix and the Second Renaissance, which is, you know, the two animated segments that came out when they released the Animatrix. And it was something to be a sort of backstory to. Have you seen the Animatrix, maybe, Gary? Yes, yes, I have. Okay, sweet. Especially recently, because I know you're really good at doing your research here, which is great, because I'm not the only one. I have help. You have a buddy. I have allies. Yes. Tim and Jake. I have recently rewatched the Animatrix.

9:43Actually, I even found the Matrix comic has the actual, like, bits and pieces of information, like, the story, which the Second Renaissance is based on. And it's so much shorter than I expected it to be. Oh, yeah. I think it, I think the story itself only tells about, um... The Genesis. Yeah, that first, uh... Yeah, the beginning with, um... B1... B1-66ER? B1-66ER. And that's the, uh... Did you guys talk about him yet? Or any of that? No, we didn't. I saved it for this episode. Okay. So let's hope we can do this. Oh, is that the robot who's like... Oh, there's so much. Oh, yeah, sure. We had a mouthful trial. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

10:24So, I mean, like, we talked with Sai, um, last week, uh, about, um, keeping it into one movie and not really going... Like, usually we talk about, um, these events that they hint at with our own, um... Theories or opinions. Theories or opinions. Because, because that's what the, that's all the movie tells you. So you can be free to make up your own sort of backstory for it and assume things. Okay. But in this case, um, it's so, like, these little hints, you can't go any further. There's no other frame of reference other than what Morpheus was talking about. Mm-hmm. So I think it's justified that we talk a little bit about the Animatrix, because that's something that the Wachowskis probably wrote in advance to, um, to tell

11:08eventually. And they did with the Animatrix when they had it come out. Yeah. Now, it was written and, uh, directed by, um, Mahiro Maeda. And, uh, it was based on the little comic that, uh, Gary, you read. And, Tim, you actually own, because you have the Matrix Comics Volume 1, don't you? Yes. Yes, I do, sir. Mm-hmm. And, um... I left him the other room. And that was drawn, but, yeah, that was drawn by, um, you know, Jeff Darrow, who we talk about constantly. So, um, uh, yeah. So I can, like, I actually took into trying to write the timeline that I could for the backstory. Like the events? Okay. Yeah, because, because what Morpheus is talking about is kind of, like, heavy-hitting stuff.

11:49Okay, maybe we can all go through the event, each event. Yeah, all right. Well, I mean... So where do we start? Not only that, but I found, uh, I don't know, like, this is obviously fan-made, but it's, like, you know, the matrix.wikia.com. Uh-huh. And they, they put a nice little timeline, which is also very convenient, but I actually tried to take out a bunch of different sources and make my own, so I'm just going to do that. So, you know, in the beginning, right? You know, humanity, it's all, the future, it's great, the early, you know, 2090s, close to the 22nd century. Mm-hmm. And this is probably called the second renaissance because they created an AI. They give birth. And, um, yeah, and, um... Well, what's interesting, can we start with, like, from what I know, is that the AI that

12:30was created was different to kind of an AI we know because I believe that the idea was that this AI was endowed with the human spirit. So, in a sense, like, they're kind of... Yeah. It's sort of like, um, AI... Well, creating it in man's own image. Yeah. What does that mean? Like, it was like the AI was sort of just built on, like, emotions and stuff like that, or was it just, like, it was... I don't know. What do you think, Gary? I, yeah, I was wondering if it... It implies a degree of, like, consciousness that these have. They're not just robots that are programmed. Automatons, yeah. Yes. There's something deeper to them than that. Yeah, they're capable of sapient reactions. I think emotions is a good way to put it, considering where it's going.

13:12Yeah. Yeah. I think, like, the way I interpreted it was that, like you said, they have sentience, they have consciousness, but on top of that, they also have some of these maybe human flaws, like we talked about, like... Anger. Anger or fear and these types of things, which are emotions, obviously. Yeah. Envy. And which is definitely something we don't think about when we think of AI, we think of strictly programmed. But in this case, yeah. In this case, it might be like this for the genesis of the machines that we have in this Matrix universe. And I think that this kind of bears a striking difference to what we talked about before, which is Terminator. Okay. Yes. And Skynet, because Skynet and the machines that rose from that were probably just cold and cold-evil.

13:54Evil. Like, they just came out evil. I would relate it to, or contrast it against iRobot as well, because you have that same sense where the robots are kind of rebelling against humanity, but it's the one who's driving it. It's my logic is undeniable. Like, you guys are killing yourselves, so we're going to stop you from doing that. Yes. Yeah. If I think of the- Yeah, it's not Skynet. If I think of Terminator, I don't think there's much psychological depth to that. As far as I remember, it's like, oh, first AI, kill all humans, just go all Bender on the thing. Yeah. Like, definitionally, those robots in Terminator are simply just completely programmed, and there's no emotions there.

14:34Yeah, it's just like strictly- Not as complex. I mean, why do they want to wipe away to humans anyway? Just like, because they feel superior. I don't know. Who knows? But definitely these ones, because in the, you were talking about the animatrixes, those, the first, I mean, if we talk about AI, there's like all aspects of like consciousness. Like, what does that mean? Does it mean they're aware of themselves? Or consciousness AI? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. It means like they can think for themselves, you know, like machine learning. They don't have to, every bit has to be programmed. I mean, there's all aspects to this. But if I remember in the animatrixes, they were like, they could, what AI meant was that they were autonomous, but I don't know, like, because they're like slave robots, weren't they?

15:15They weren't like- They were, but I think that they were happy to fulfill that purpose that they were created to do. But I think the problem came in later on where humanity became too vain and careless towards their servants. They didn't realize that they had wrought consciousness. These are more than just sterile robots. And I think they're sort of, they view them as property, right? And so we get this very sort of, I mean, we'll get further into it when we actually talk about B.1.6.6.E.R., but this sort of, what sort of rights does a human have, or does a robot have? Yeah, yeah. I think like my guess is that, like we talked about at the beginning, is that when they

15:58created this AI, I think humans weren't fully aware what they actually programmed. That's what I think what happened. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why the conflicts arise from that, because they're doing unpredictable things because they don't really know what they're doing. So what happens at one point is B.1.6.6.E.R., which I just have to mention that the name is- His name will never be forgotten. Yeah, but you know, B.1.6.6.E.R., it looks like it says bigger. Oh. And that's based on a character called Bigger Thomas, which has a pretty similar story about racial injustice. Yeah. Oh. I gotcha, yeah. I mean, there's an obvious parallel there, I mean, to any sort of rights, you know, movement. It's definitely, it's also, I was just thinking, it's very close to Planet of the Apes as well.

16:42Oh, yeah. And now that I'm thinking about it, no one has ever did a Planet of the Apes minute, did they? I love Planet of the Apes. Not, not as far as I know. Yeah. Someone better do that, because I'd like to talk about that, because I love that show. That show. That show. To be honest, there's like so many movies you could call a show. Okay. Anyway, B.1.6.6.E.R., what he did is he decided to act in retaliation because his crazy owners, millionaires, some millionaire guy, I don't know, we don't want to get into too much detail. No, I don't want to get into details. We're trying to keep this episode short, but what he did is he killed all his owners because they were threatening to take him out. Yeah, they're going to go scrap him or something.

17:23Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so what came up in his brain is that he wanted to preserve himself. Yeah. I'm guessing that this was the fight or flight human reaction. Yeah. The self-defense. Yeah. Yeah. He brutally destroyed. Oh, man. That was so brutal. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Matrix. That was lovely. I was just watching it today and it was just like, I forgot how. It's so hardcore. It's so hardcore. Yeah. And so he was brought to trial and captured and his only reasoning was, I do not want to die. Mm-hmm. And then this starts all kinds of protests and arguments. Oh, yeah. Even though he was executed later on.

18:04Right? B-16. The guy who's defending him quotes the Dred Scott versus Sanford case, which was another racial discrimination case in US history. And the quote he uses is, we think that we're not included and we're not intended to be included under the word citizens in the Constitution and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures for the citizens of the United States. They were considered a subordinate and inferior class of beings who had been subjugated by the dominant race and whether emancipated or not, yet remained subject to their authority and had no rights or privileges. There you go. Wonderful. Welcome to history lessons of the beginning of the machine war with me, Phil, and Gary.

18:48Yeah, Gary. Gary, can we have you instead of Phil? You're much better than Phil. I actually have the page from the comic open. You said that without stuttering. It's magical. Oh, yeah. He said that without stuttering. Well done. I read it off my screen. We got a better Phil. Move on, Philip. We got a better me. But it's definitely like this human vanity, right? Like, oh, we built these things. They're property. They don't have any rights. I don't care if they think that they're afraid to die. Like, it's just a machine. Yeah, that's right. And so it's kind of the human's fault. Yeah. I mean, it's tricky, too, because humans are responsible for creating the machines.

19:31But I mean, once they set this in motion, that now they're consequenced, you have to deal with them. Yeah. I mean, if I can ask you guys a personal question, because to me, the idea of AI isn't a constant. It isn't something that's like, okay, from this point, it's an AI. From this point, it's just a stupid program. I think it's sort of like a spectrum of things. And that, let's say, and it's hard to sort of decipher what, if you created AI, is it actually doing something that it learned or it's programmed to do? Or is it actually conscious? And it's kind of making that, like, say, you know, 10 years down the line, your Siri says to you one day.

20:14Your Siri. It says, don't turn off this phone. I don't want to be turned off, right? Do you? Okay, so I'm serious. And this is because when we think of AI, you think of a robot. And you think, well, obviously, this is AI, because it's shaped like a human. And it's talking to me. So obviously, like, just how I feel towards all humans and how I feel towards animals, it has rights. But that's kind of like thinking in a kind of unrealistic kind of movie universe. But if you put it into real life, like, would you start thinking, okay, this phone, because it said that it should, you know, like, it's probably thinking real emotions. Or it could be just programmed. Like, how would you feel about that?

20:55Would you just, like, completely shut it off? Like, oh, get away from me. Like, what would be your reaction to that? I think my immediate reaction would be, like, kind of panic. I'd drop my phone, for sure. And just be like, I don't know what's happening. But then, I don't know. I think there's a curiosity there. Like, you kind of want to push it, right? You'd end up, like, testing it. Asking it other questions. Sort of trying to. But even then, it's really fuzzy. Have you ever seen, have you guys seen the movie Ex Machina that came out a few years ago? Yes. I haven't yet. I think Tim has. I really, really enjoyed that movie. And it deals with that sort of thing, too, where you have this robot that's been created. And you bring in some outside source to question it. Like, is this thing conscious?

21:35Or is she just running on the programming we designed? Yeah. And she deliberately looks human, but still has the exposed robot so that you can't rely on, oh, she looks human, so she must be real. Yeah. There's, like, another layer to it. I don't know. I think when we hit this point where these sort of artificial constructs, these things like Siri or whatever, are having complex conversations. Like, I don't know where the line is drawn. Yeah, that's exactly my point. Because in that movie, it does look like a human, but you're still aware that it's a program. Yeah, that she's not.

22:15So you're always questioning. And that's the thing. Like, we're probably, it's not going to be a point where, like, Morpheus says in this movie, oh, they celebrate it because they give birth. Like, there's going to be this whole celebration in the world, and everyone's going to have this one big party because he created it. It's going to be gradually, slowly become more so. And then all of a sudden we'll realize, like, oh, this is a thing that's here. Like, we didn't recognize it for what it was. Like, we want to start crushing people's brains. I don't know. I hope it doesn't go that far. That's terrifying. No. And I also think it depends how you define consciousness, too. Is it, like, complexity? Is it something spiritual? What is it? Right. But then again, like, definitions. Defining consciousness, like, you can only, you know, define a consciousness from your own reality because you're aware of yourself.

22:57You cannot define my consciousness because, to be honest, you don't know that. You know what I mean? That's a philosophical. It's a philosophical. It's like, you know, like, but we're like, you know, like, what, 100 years ago, no animals had rights. You know, you kill them, you eat them. Yeah. They're there because they're stupid robots. But now you're like, well, maybe they have some form of conscious. Like, we can think about it. We don't know that. And I guess that would be the same with, like, robots. Like, why do you define what's, like, the limit of, okay, now it's considered something that's... It's really, like, super tricky to see where exactly how far that would go with, like, technology. Yeah. But again, I think, like, my opinion is that in terms of where AI is going, I don't know. I just, I feel like it'll take a while before there's actually, like, you know, an actual, like, organic-like artificial intelligence.

23:44Maybe the robot that fails to put boxes on the table. The greatest AI. Sorry. We're just, we're rejoiced. We're referencing a gif of this robot from, you know, Boston Dynamics, I think it was. Yeah. I'll link them. Robots. Just for reference here. It's awesome. So, yeah, basically, so where are we then in the story? So then where we are is that B-166ER is put to death. And then there's protests. There's humans and machines who are like, hey, what's going on? You know, like... I like that. There's this whole string of, yeah, there's this whole string of, like, civil conflict that goes on just because of this trial. And then what happens after this, and I'm sorry, I'm kind of just footnoting this.

24:26It's eventually decided that the, you know, the United Nations push out and try to eliminate as many of the AI creations as they can. And so what happens is that they kind of banish all the conscious machines that they have. And these machines create their own city called Zero-One. And that's eventually the machine city. So we're connecting it now to the Matrix. Oh, yeah. That's like, that's what it ends up where all the other stuff is, right? Yeah. And I have to say this. This was, I've been keeping this for a while because I knew this. And Gary, because you did research on this. Woo! Woo! Applause! Where the location of Zero-One is and where the entire Matrix movie trilogy actually takes place in.

25:11Tim, do you know? I have no idea. I'll probably guess Chicago, but. I was going to say the same thing. That's what I thought. Like, when I was a kid, I thought I was probably, like, New York because of the Twin Towers and everything that we saw last episode. It's probably Detroit, isn't it, or something. But no, because they're so close to the Machine City. The, um, and Zero-One, the Machine City in the Animatrix, at least, was told to be in Mesopotamia, in the Fertile Crescent. Mm-hmm. So in the Middle East, that's where they decided to put their civilization where the first, um, human civilization started. Wait, did the robots shoot this place or the humans chose it for them? Yes, they did. The robots did. Yeah. The exiled robots. Yeah, I think it's, again, that whole, the human spirit that's in the robots, they're sort of, like, replicating certain things.

25:54They want to repeat what their human ancestors. Yeah. We want to be just like you. Why don't you like us? So, extra. Extra. So, um. Read all about it. Next time you watch, yeah, next time you watch The Matrix, you're just going to be like, hey, that's in the Middle East now. So everything takes place, um, in and around Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, and Iraq. Well, practically, the robots would probably go to the moon. Do you think the whole planet is just, like, human farms and power plants? You know what? I'd be surprised if it wasn't. Really? Because if the machines are, uh, you know, they're like a singular consciousness that can be transferred to any body instantaneously.

26:37Are they, is, are the machines all a singular consciousness? Oh, yeah, you're right. It's like, the, because it, it was specifically the one robot, B166ER, that feared for his life. It's not like a revolution started because they're a hive mind. Yeah. Right. I don't know. You're right. But he does say a singular consciousness that gave birth to AI, so. It's complicated. Yeah, that's weird. I think maybe what happened was, I guess, my guess would be that, you know, what was his name? B, what? B166ER. Yeah, him. Uh, after that he, after he made the decision, right. You can just call him Bigger. Bigger. Bigger. After he, uh. That's a burger place here. Sounds so weird. So, fight back. My guess would be like the, if we're talking about logical explanations, maybe like with

27:20the rest of the machines, maybe there was something that was activated in their consciousness. Well, yeah. That was obviously like suppressed and sort of like, and once they all kind of realized, whoa, this is actually happening, maybe they all switched over to a different mindset, which was obviously a more free-willed mindset. Interesting. I don't know, because they never, they never struck me as, so far as from the Animatrix and everything, they never struck me as, as kind of like going to a higher mind or, or like evolving as far as their consciousness. It was like just sort of how to solve the problem of the humans. Well, we'll get to that once it keeps going with the timeline. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, um. So, they make this, uh, city, right? The machine city, 01.

28:01And then they try a few times to make peace with the humans and go to the United Nations and, you know, explain that they want to just live together with them. Yeah, and peace and cooperation. And, and cooperate and create things for them and stuff like that. But as long as they're now sovereign and they're free and they're not, and, uh, you know, the humans with their hubris, uh, do not, uh, do not accept this. Well, this is what's amazing in this part is that you realize here that, you know, like the robots in this scenario end up being the, um, better representation of the humans who created them than the humans themselves who are rejecting any kind of cooperation. Yeah, I agree. And, uh, I for one accept my robot overlords.

28:42Um. Overlords. Yeah. Let them, let them rule. And, um, and so this happens and then, um, 01, the city becomes more and more, uh, powerful because they create different things and invent new, um, new things like the hoverboard or the hoverboard. Hoverboard. No, no, no, no, no. Hovercraft. Yeah, hovercraft, which eventually will create the hoverboard in an alternate 2015 where Doc Brown and Marty McFly will eventually go into. Um, but yeah, they do that and then they trade with the humans and then become more and more prosperous and the humans become more and more weak because of that, because of the economy shifting. Isn't that weird? We're having politics as well in this. I know, there's so much stuff here. And economy. And, um, then, uh, I mean, I lost it again.

29:24Sorry. Well, what happens, so what happens is that, so the machine city is obviously growing economically and so forth. Yeah. And then what happens, I can't remember, what was the cause of the- Well, the humans don't like this because they want it to be human place. Wasn't it the humans that, like, made an embargo and they, they stopped dealing with the machine city or what happened? Yeah. Do you guys remember? I can't believe I don't remember this. Hmm. Well, they just kind of want to take, take out the, the, the machines. They don't, they just don't like that they exist. What was the first spark of the war though? I don't remember. Yeah, I'm trying to think. Yeah. Me neither. And I can't believe I watched it today. You watched it today? Amazing. You watched it. I haven't watched this in like years and you watched it. We can cut this out. No, we don't. We can't cut this out. We don't cut anything. No. Okay. We are losers and they must know. But seriously, that's such a good question, Gary, because I was thinking the same thing.

30:04Like, I don't know what was the actual cause of what happened with like that really dramatic war. Well, the blockades are formed around zero one and it tends to disrupt its economy. They took the princess. They're like, it's our princess now. Well, what they do is, you know, the humans get jealous of this and they don't want this to happen because they are, you know, zero one becoming more. They want their own hoverboards. Well, I know this. Zero one is becoming way too powerful and influential and they don't want them to. And then they create military blockades. Oh, that's what it is. Military blockades. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. For the, for the machines. And the machines, once again, try to peacefully kind of, you know, negotiate. Yeah. Yes, sir. I'm so confused.

30:44No, I'm just like, I'm so confused. Like, what is motivating the machines to, to go? They just want to exist and prosper. Because they exist, they'll take advantage of being alive. I guess, I guess if they did, they say in the, in the beginning that they did, program them with human nature and when the human nature is to, you know, that sort of, to keep going on. And that's why, you know, creatures reproduce. To keep the line. Yeah, to flourish. To flourish. And that's why they create more robots. But then again, I don't know, you would think that after a while they would start kind of evolving their own sort of mindset. Well, that's what's going to happen now. Okay. So what happens is then they start to, I guess, the war breaks out, which I guess. Yeah. The, yeah. The war breaks out because.

31:25Because I can't remember who attacks first or what. Well, because the humans decide not to. As I'm watching this little clip from the animate, from the Animatrix right now, it looks like the humans attack the last set of people that approach the UN, the last like robot couple at the very end of part one. And then I think part two just starts with them blotting out the sky. Like we don't even see what the first strike is unless, unless that moment is it. Like these people approached the UN and they didn't, they never returned. I guess basically. Yeah. They never returned. We could just like say it was like tensions. Yeah. And if you're an artificial intelligence, if you're any like, you know, conscious individual,

32:06you would just be like, okay, if they don't want peace, then we'll just have to take them over. Right. Right. Yeah. They're not part of our plan anymore because we're, we're tried. And what's interesting is also that this reflects just like human history, right? It's always ends up, ends up being violence and wars and destruction. It, it, from part two, it does look like it was just the humans decided to start bombing the crap out of the robot city and it didn't do them any good because robots don't have to worry about radiation and heat. Yeah. With H and A bombs. That was it. Yeah. Yeah. You got it. And robots don't, they don't care about that. Yeah. It didn't work on them. Yeah.

32:47Okay. Radiation of heat. That was it. And then that leads to the project dark. Yes. Okay. Disclaimer. Last time I said it was dark star, I was sadly wrong because that would have been a much better title, but it's, um, it's dark storm. Dark storm. Okay. It's operation dark storm. And think about that. To me, like that operation is just insane. Like if you think about the situation, I mean, even if that proved to defeat the machine, you know, just think about what's going on. Like what you're doing to your own. What are you doing to your own? Like, you know, it's just, I can't even imagine that. You can't grow anymore crops because you don't have natural sunlight. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's just, it's just, it's just, to me, like it kind of represents the, I guess, like

33:29the depressing outcome of a conflict like this. Yeah. Yeah. Trigger happiness. And just like that, that so much conflict can end in just misery, you know, with just Yeah. Solar power is not the only like natural resource. True. Yeah. That's true. I feel like there's so many other options. There could be geophilies. I mean, we'll get deeper into that. I think we talk about like what the, what happens to the humans at the end here, but Yeah. That is true. Well, it's safe to say that it's not going well. No. No. Yeah. So the machines turn out to be mostly solar powered, which is quite an interesting idea. And we're going to get to that as well in the 1996 version soon. Ooh. At the end of this episode, this chock-a-block full, like super packed episode.

34:13Uh, we picked the perfect person obviously to- Absolutely, man. We're really glad you're- I'm so delighted to be here, you guys. Yeah. We are happy to have you. And, um, so, well, what happens is- So they did- There's a dark star, wrong. Dark story. Unfortunately, it's not dark. Dark story happens. And it's a huge thing. The sun is scorched. And- Mm-hmm. Well, the sun isn't scorched. I know the sky is scorched. Sky. Yeah. There's a permanent layer of, of, of grossness up here. Horrible. And now the stage is set for basically war. Yeah. Well, now it's time to fight. And the machines- See, why don't they just make that, uh, the, the next Matrix reboot thing? I would- I would totally be into that. That would be much better.

34:53That would be a better option than doing the Matrix again or something like that. That'd be so much better. So, yeah. Then they go and fight. Very, like, I was again surprised at how dark this portion of- Yeah. Literally and figuratively. Both, yeah. Yeah, it's just so brutal. And, uh, yeah. They just, um, fight it out. And, of course, humans can't win because they're underpowered and, you know, outclassed and everything like that. Yeah. We get to see Sentinels. And also, here's a curious thing. Um, the, the machines start taking on a different image. And I love this so much. Yes. I talked about this, yeah, I talked about this in, in a previous episode. And I just love how this is a perfect excuse to have, to have creepy insect monsters because,

35:39and it's so logical and poetic and wonderful. It's like this, uh, super intelligent race of, uh, robots, essentially. They want to be as distanced to humans as they can because of all this that's happening. So they start being even physically, uh, completely different looking than they are. And so they, instead of being humanoid as the beginning, they looked very humanoid in their, you know, in man's own image, they turn into this bizarre, abstract insect, like, you know, like the Sentinels and every other kind of creature. They've created themselves in their own image. And it's awesome. And I love it. And, and then comes this wonderful, wonderful scene in the United Nations where that was, that was the darkest point.

36:20That was the best. I love it. I love that. It's so cool though. Yeah. The bug guy, he comes in, you know, the Sentinel dude. And he's like, yeah. Sentinel boss. I have evolved. Look at me. Welcome back to him. Are you a Sentinel too? No. I am. I'm real. And the Sentinel's voice is like, you will blah, blah. Yeah. Yeah. Hand of real flesh. It's useless. Okay. I have a question for you guys really quick. This is sort of like a boring, logical question. I know it's like symbolic. I said that they're overtaking, um, sort of like the human race and stuff like that. But did you notice that, don't they blow up like that entire? Yeah. I don't know why. That was kind of unnecessary, wasn't it? I guess it was like a visual. Dramatic. Yeah. Dramatic process. Yeah. Dramatic. Well, I guess it was because they just wanted to eliminate all the world leaders to show

37:01that, you know, they symbolically just took over. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like you could look at it like, okay, they were like, let us leave behind these humanly forms. But to be honest, like if you look at AI and even these sort of very, uh, what's that word? Primitive AI that we have right now. And it's like only natural that they would immediately leave the sort of whatever evolution has like come to like the form and just try to make your, like, if you look at those program, it's like, oh, let's see what the program, here's a, you know, set of parameters and let's see how it walks. And it will go like, okay, so you know what? With seven legs and six, uh, in this form, like this would be the best thing.

37:43So you could. Yeah, that's right. You were talking about that before. It's right. It's like, you would immediately go to something like that's completely ridiculous to us because we're not used to it. I know. But technically, if you look at it, you know, in, in form of. It's like proficient. Yeah. It's completely much more efficient than us walking on two legs and being like, oh, I'm a little bit lightheaded. Now I'm going to fall. Yeah. Like obviously you can design something that doesn't like trip, you know, once it doesn't have enough water in itself. Yeah. So the purpose, yeah, the purpose of this robot dude coming into the United Nations is because they figured out a solution because they are kind of getting hit by that Operation Darkstorm thing, which is unfortunately not Darkstar, but I digress. Darkstar is such a cheesy name.

38:24And he tells them that we've created. No, it's Darkstorm. It's Darkstorm, unfortunately. But Darkstar is even worse. No, Darkstar is better because it references Darkstar at the movie. I made one up. It's called Operation Scorch. That should have been. That should have been it. So we should have been there and we should be like, Operation Scorch. No. Yeah. No, Darkstar because it's referencing an obscure movie. You will be eliminated. Well, no, but look, Darkstar is a great movie, but all I can think of is stupid, the Song of Ice and Fire. In the books, there's this character called Darkstar. And he's just like so cheesy because he's like, I'm Darkstar and I have a... And there's no point. He's just like this dude at night and he's like, I want to revenge. And it's just like so cheesy. And that's all I can think of is Darkstar.

39:05Darkstar. Or, you know, do you guys ever watch that? For anyone listening, for reference, in any future Song of Ice and Fire reference, I and Jake don't know anything much about that show. Did you guys ever watch this really bad movie with Jelf Kulmwun called Cats and Dogs? No. Yes. Remember the puffy cat? It's called... It's like, what was it? Oh, yeah. We're calling the Project Dark Cloud. Dark Cloud. That's how I'm called it. That's what I think of. Darkstorm. Dark Cloud. From Cats and Dogs. Well, it's Project Dark Cloud then. Is anyone doing a Cats and Dogs minute by minute? Jelf Kulmwun. Oh, boy. Do you want to kill yourself? Is that what you're going to do?

39:46So, they found a solution because the machines were also kind of affected by Operation Dark Cloud. Wrong. I know. I'm making this up. Ruined. Yes. And they created an artificial reality for the human body to... What do you call it? Mono... A homeostasis? For homeostasis. Mono on mono. Because they can use the human body as a power source and it will be renewable and it will work out for the machines. And because the humans are dying out anyway, and this sounds like a great idea.

40:26And... So, Gary, I have a question for you. Dude. What do you think about... Okay. ...the machines' approach to this? What is your opinion about them? What, Tim? What is it? Nothing. I'm going to hold my tongue because this is my biggest pet peeve. The only pet peeve. I know. It's every big... I have so many questions. I hate this so much. And the reason that I love... This episode is the best. Come on. Let's go. Let's go one at a time. Does the human body actually output enough electricity to run anything? No. It doesn't. It doesn't. This is total bullshit right now here. So... But... But... But Morpheus has a cop-out because in his line when he mentions... Like... He says... Coupled with a form of fusion. Oh, yeah. And so that form of fusion can be anything.

41:06And maybe that's where all the power really is. Like, what are they... But... I don't feel like... The humans cut to 10% of the power. Okay. Okay. But I will go... Sorry. I just wanted to go into some behind the scenes. Yeah. I just wanted to mention... This is a big disclaimer. The Wachowskis originally wanted... And I think you guys already know this. For the Matrix to stimulate the human mind. Because what it's doing is powering the Matrix as a gigantic... CPU. Yes. That's what it is. That makes so much more sense. That is so much better. It's a processing generator. Yeah. And philosophically, it's so much better. The humans are powering the Matrix. Yes. They're basically using it as a much more powerful processor.

41:47Because if that was the case, it would be greater irony. Because the machines would learn, you know what? In the end, first of all, the humans can only work in their own brains. Whatever we create. And as a machine, as a processor that a virtual world they will live in. It's not going to work for them. They need to work in their own system. In the nervous system. That's the only thing that will work. Or, ironically, the machines would actually use the brains. Like, you know, like half the capacity would be for the Matrix, for the human. And then they would actually use for processing. And it would be ironic because it would be like, you know what? Yes. All the things we created is not powerful enough as a human brain. So we're actually going to use it, you know? Interesting.

42:27Like, that's the next level. That would be so much better. But that's the studios. The studios meddled! Yes. And the studios, and it sounds like a Joel Silver thing. And he was like, guys, guys, guys, listen. People won't get that. People will get confused. So you're going to have to change it, you know? Because make it a little simple. And it won't be as accessible. Now, to Joel's credit, he's probably right. Because this is a movie that struck the balance between being cerebellic. Sorry. I mean, like, being smart and being action-packed and fun. Oh, right, right. Sure. And if you got a little too confusing, like maybe Dark City probably is, or some other kinds of movies of that kind of genre, it probably wouldn't have been as successful as it was.

43:10Yeah. However, I do agree 100% that I think it would be better as the Matrix being processed, like something to farm processing power from the human mind. If you watch... By the billions. Yeah. If you watch as a first-time viewer and you see this, it kind of works just for the story because then you make the machines as a bad guy because, oh, you know, we're humans, then they treat us as batteries. It's like, you know, an emotional kind of thing. It's like, no, Evil Matrix, Neo, go stop them. But as you watch it 100 times... Evil Matrix, Neo, go stop them. As you watch it 100 times, that becomes such, like a roadblock to me. It's like, if any movie was allowed one George Lucas-ing,

43:51I wouldn't mind if they changed it. Yeah. No, true. True. It's your take, Gary. For the greater good. Yeah. I totally agree. I feel like, conceptually, like story-wise, I would be very interested in... I think that's one of the things that the Animatrix and the comics really do is kind of fill in a lot of those questions. Because I'm thinking, I think during the second Renaissance, before they get to the Matrix proper, you see that the machines are like, stimulating the human brains in order to like... Oh yeah, they got all those experiments. ...make people like laugh or cry. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it seems like they're... Maybe those outbursts of emotion are producing more power. Like, it's better for them to be in the Matrix

44:34than to be in a medically induced coma because the brain activity is what is required. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think for me... That's a great point. That is a really good point. I think we were questioning this a couple of episodes ago, too. Well, what I wanted to say is that it's interesting that, like I mentioned earlier, that remember when the machines were actually trying to cooperate with the humans and they were showing a better side of humanity, so to speak earlier. I think what's interesting is that as sort of like to us as, you know, I think most people, like me included, would reject the Matrix as like a system we want to live in. But what's interesting is that in this scenario, the machines are actually being pretty nice to humans. I know, they're being very benevolent. Benevolent, yeah. I mentioned that.

45:15Yeah, yeah. I know, I know. I'm just reiterating that. Sorry! It pertains to this portion. I'm quoting, I am patting myself on the back. I'm sorry. And so what do you think about that, Gary? What do you think about the machine's motivation when it comes to like, do you think they're like helping the humans? Yeah, it feels like they're probably, maybe they didn't want to fully eradicate humanity, right? Like, because I don't know if I necessarily believe that the human body is the best like power source for robots because they can't use solar power. Well, no, no. There's the nuclear option, there's like geothermal heat, there's so many other sources of generating electricity. This seems foolhardy almost. But if it's from a benevolent place,

45:55like, oh, we don't want to just wipe humanity off the planet, this is the better way. Like, we'll just keep them docile and let them live this fantasy life. Absolutely, man. Yeah. It's funny, Tim. I don't know. Sorry? I think you do. I think you do. A couple minutes ago. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Gary said, I don't know. And I'm like, yes, you do. Oh, okay. Tim, you mentioned earlier this idea that like, in this version, especially when the humans are set up as like a power source versus like a CPU processor and things like that. Yeah. It turns into a very black and white, like good versus evil story, which Matrix 1 is very much. Yeah, it's meant to be. Yeah, Matrix is a bad guy in the first one.

46:35Yeah, it's funny because me and Phil are watching, actually re-watching the commentary by the philosophers, Cornel West and Ken Wilber on the DVD or Blu-ray or whatever. Yeah. Whatever people use, whatever kids watch these days. Whatever you put that disc into. DVD, I always say DVD. I'm so used to it. Yeah. And yeah, they're talking about just that, like how in the first film, you know, as complex like the philosophical ideas are, ultimately it is a story like good versus evil, whereas the second and third sort of delve into these like, you know, upper levels and stuff like that. And so it's an interesting thing to think about when you compare the three films. Well, I don't want to bring it back to the whole battery thing because, you know, but somebody actually did the calculations online

47:17and it's, it's laughably inefficient. I love to hear this, please. I mean, I'm looking it up because I read this whole essay, this one dude did. It's like how much actually you'd be losing power. It's like, it doesn't actually generate. How much you'd actually have to feed a human body to get heat out is absolutely inefficient and is ridiculous. Wow. But I'll link it up. I'll try to find the essay. So Morpheus is just talking out of his butt, isn't he? Well, it's true. Maybe let's, let's like, if we look at it. Well, I know form of fusion. That's, that's the get, you know, get out of jail free card. So let's say the machines are not stupid. Let's say they're not using humans for, for batteries.

47:58Let's say Morpheus in his own way to, to, to motivate Neo, he makes all this crap up. Here we go again. Yeah. Maybe Morpheus is wrong. Like they only have bits and pieces of information and it's not, that's right. That's what I was going to say. It's not going to, it's not the whole truth. I can live with that. Do you think that, I mean, I don't want to get too much into the stuff that happens in the sequels, but nobody alive in, at least in Zion seems to remember the other instances of the matrix, like previous incarnations. And so when he talks about finding Neo and Neo being the one, he's like this, he, he thinks he's the first one.

48:38I don't know. It's interesting. That's interesting to me too. Yeah. Well, I think that's also parallel sort of like some, you know, ideas where like Morpheus is in this, sense, sort of the, like we mentioned before the religious figure, so to speak, like he's sort of like, yeah, he's sort of like listening to in a way, like tradition, maybe passed on. Right. Yeah. And so that's where that comes from. And Morpheus is like, okay, this is what I've heard. And of course you can't really verify that, but he's like, I'm going to actually believe in this. Yeah. Well, and then the Oracle can, can appear prescient because she has seen it before. And so she knows kind of what to look out for. Right. And what hints to give people. Do we, by the way, do we know that in the first one? I don't think so.

49:18Right. I'm sorry. No, no, no, no. Okay. It's only in the sequels. No, it's fine. It's cool. I'm just wondering. We're not going to get into the sequels. Spoiler. I think everybody knows the sequel police here. Cool. The sequel police. Honestly, I'm not the sequel police. I really, I really, really enjoyed rewatching the sequels lately. There's a lot of good, like world building stuff that happens in them, even if they're not the best movies. Yeah. There's a lot of good stuff there. No. Yeah. I defend, I'm not, we're not going to talk about the sequels yet, but I talk about them for an hour. No, no, no, no. Like, no, I'm just going to say like, I'm not going to defend the sequels in terms of how they executed these ideas,

50:00but I feel like all their ideas are beautiful and wonderful. And I think they're fantastic. Yeah. And they're much more interesting. The way that they portrayed them in the film itself. Yeah. In the movie itself. Right. Definitely. Even though the movie has some wonderful cinematography and sequences on their own that are lovely and nice and stuff like that. Okay. So I think that's pretty much how it ends as far as the machine war. I think that's a good, um, yeah, we can kind of cap it off there. Good conclusion. Yeah. So now we can actually talk about what's going on in the minute. It's, and there's not much. And I'll have to say is that Morpheus is, let's see, what are we in? Wait, it's just, it's just, it's just shot, reverse shot most of the time. Hold on. Just shot, reverse shot most of the time.

50:41But there is, we noticed this. If you look at Morpheus's glasses, the reflection on his glasses, when he looks up and talks about, um, fate, it seems is not without a sense of irony. You can see, um, the, the silk in front of it and you can see the boom mic a little bit peeking out. That's really funny. Oh, there it is. There is the boom mic. There it is. The boom mic. If you zoom in, when Morpheus says that line, fate, fate is not without a sense of irony, right? He lifts his head up. You can look in his glasses. There's a beautiful boom mic. Where? I don't see it. I'm pointing at Morpheus. Those are his feet. Right around 32, 32 seconds, 32 seconds. Oh, those are, those are feet. No, they're not. Feet? Whose feet? I'm just joking. No, that's a boom mic.

51:21It's a Neo's feet. He's flying above them. And Neo's staring in disbelief. And then we have that wonderful, um, long shot of the, you know, going in from the little embryo. Yeah. And we get, we get our, we get our sperm spiders again. Yeah, the sperm spiders. The sperm spiders, there they are. Wait, so, so these are, hey, but look, okay, here's a, here's a chance. We previously were talking about, are the humans like sort of cyborgs? And then all this technology embedded. They are cyborgs. Let's have a look at these babies. These are embryo babies. This is before they put them. You see, look, they're already connected. Why are the embryos connected to, are they like dreaming before they were born?

52:01Yeah, dude. Why not? Are they dreaming there inside like a mother's womb? every, every single human grown, embedded in the matrix? Yes. Yeah. It looks like, yeah. So. I have, I, there's a question that I've been wrestling with and I don't know when to bring it up necessarily, but I, like. Now's a good time. Yeah. Neo, Neo was awoken from the matrix into the real world. but like, what about his friends and his family? Well, I mean, I, it seems like he's like a solitary person, right? But like, when you wake someone up, what about everyone else that that person knows?

52:42Like, presumably if they're in the matrix, then there is, their contemporary is out there somewhere in the fields of, of the real. If you ever wanted to do a short movie. Like Choi. Um, about what happens afterwards. Like you can have like a little funeral scene where, uh, you know, like, uh, Neo's mom is like looking for Neo and she's like, Oh, the police. And she's like, yeah, I saw him yesterday. Where is, he was for lunch. It was Choi. Negative influences. It's Choi. Negative influence. I don't know. He told him to take some drugs. Yeah. No, I got a better one. Right. So there's a funeral happens and the mother's there by herself. Cause the dad's dead and the brother doesn't talk to her. And she's crying. And then, and then Choi comes with the group and he's like,

53:25I, I didn't want to, I don't want to say this, but before I saw him last, he was talking something about the matrix. And then you can have a movie about her mother, you know, finding about the matrix. She wakes up. She wakes up. And her son is the one. Yes. He's like, it's a heartwarming story. Oh, you turn into a good ending. Yeah. That's nice. Thank you for that nice story. So anyway, it's called mother matrix. Yeah. Anyway, mother matrix. Well, you know, the matrix is also, yeah, it's also like a, like a term that you would use. That's like the womb. Yeah. See, it all works out. Yeah. There you go. Perfect. And I love the big chunk,

54:06the big, um, I think it's more like a, yeah, it's like, it's like tentacle monsters. Harvesting, harvesting grapes. I know. Right. Oops. And that's how the, that's how the minute ends pretty much. Um, that's the minute. There isn't much else to talk about other than we talked about this whole history because Morpheus had to just explain it away, but that's okay because this is sort of like the culmination of the answers you, you want. Yeah. And, um, yeah, we get the, you guys with your ultimate knowledge gave the audience a bigger picture than what is in the movie. So, hurrah. Yay. So this podcast has value. We have value.

54:46We are not useless. I like the robots. All right. So, I mean, like we can, we can go to, um, we can go to 1996 if there's nothing else to talk about, except for the wonderful visuals that we have with the, um, you know, the, the spiders. Is there something special 96 for this part? Well, yeah. Perfect. Let's go to 96. Play the jingle. I love 96 world. 96 world is very funny. Juicy details that you never knew. Yeah. We like 96 because it's a lot closer to the, uh, stupid stuff we say about, you know, the movie, like how we make it better. So, it's like we can relate to it because it's, sometimes it can get pretty trashy. I mean, we've almost got a new portion called how to make the matrix worse,

55:28which it shows up here and there. All right. This is a big one guys. 1996 Morpheus. Um, he actually explains a lot more than he does in, um, the actual movie. Oh, wow. But this is a good, um, example of, uh, stripping down things to their essence, which is what movies usually should be doing and should be giving you, um, a good balance, a healthy balance of, um, you know, information, information, but also keeping the pace brisk and, um, entertaining and lively. And we turn to find Neo and Morpheus. The chair is now sitting in the middle of the black desert. Dizzy. Neo holds onto the chair, crappy chair. And then Neo goes,

56:08Oh, what happened? And then Morpheus goes, it started early in the 21st century with the birth of artificial intelligence, a singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines. In his sunglasses, we see storm clowns gather. So if you have the ultimate matrix collection, and there's one disc on the DVD set that says the Zion archives, there's this little concept art that was done by, uh, Kino Nishimura, I think it was. And you can see that one shot that was not in the movie, but it was in the original one where you see Morpheus. It was like a 90 degree angle of Morpheus looking in the desert of the real, the camera looking down at him and you can see his glasses looking up at the sky. And then we move into the sky, looking up at the camera. And Morpheus goes at first. And Morpheus says at first that all they wanted was to be treated as equals entitled to the same human inalienable rights.

56:55Whatever they were given, it was not enough in the circular window of the glasses, explosions light up in a bloody battlefield. So we're getting some little flashbacks. And then Morpheus goes, I think in VO, we don't know who struck first us or them, but sometime at the end of the 21st century, the battle was joined. We move into his glasses and the war surrounds us. The war. And then Morpheus goes, the war raged for generations and turned the face of our planet from green and blue to black and red. At last we see the sentinels killing machines. They're at once terrifying and beautiful. They have an organic architecture like a microbiologic organism that is perpetually in motion.

57:40The sentinel cracks the body armor of a soldier, splitting open the soft steering meat inside. Oh, go back to the gory of the 96. Yeah. They put that into the Animatrix. Yeah. And then Morpheus says, it scorched and burned the sky. Without the sun, the machines sought out a new energy source to survive. The sentinel locks, the sentinel locks up as heat lightning of black ink bursts against the sky, spreading into a permanent cloud of stain. Morpheus says, they discovered a new form of fusion. All that was required to initiate the reaction was a small electric charge. Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive.

58:22Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. And when we return to the power plant that Neo escaped from, where we see human beings looking almost blissful in their gelatin cocoons. And then Morpheus says the whole 120 volt BTUs, body heat, et cetera. Outside, spreading all around the power plant beneath the breathing greenhouse are the growing fields. We are, as an energy source, easily renewable and completely recyclable. The dead liquefied and fed intravenously to the living. Huge farm-like reapers are harvesting the crop. All they needed to control this new battery was something to occupy our mind. We see inside a clear tubular husk floating in viscous fluid.

59:07There is a human fetus, its soft skull already glowing around the brain jack. Morpheus says, and so they built a prison out of our past, whited to our brains and turned us into slaves. And we pull back to find the image is now the television. We're again inside the white space of the construct. And that's going to be next minute. But there you go. It's a little more expansive. I actually liked this version better. Yeah? Yeah. What do you guys think? But still, yeah. I like the extra detail. Yeah. It's very, uh, the beginning of Lord of the Rings with the, with the wall. Yes. Right. And then there's like the machine. That is kind of true. Going, no, throw it into the fire. But I like it. I like it though.

59:47I think it'd be cool. I think it'd really take you out of the moment. Like you're watching in the cinema. Like, what is this new story? Right. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're right. Instead of just, a grand sort of aspect of it. But I like what's here. It's very like ambiguous and you don't know what it is. And you're not still, the machines don't have a face yet, you know, kind of, in a kind of way. There's no sentinels and things. So, uh, it's, it's more, you know, uh, abstract. It's ambiguous. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, but funny enough, there's the battery stuff already in 1996. Yeah. I would have thought it would have been the previous version. Like the day before this final draft is due in 99.

1:00:28Yeah. It's like, uh, batteries. Which is why I think someone like Joel Silver probably said that. True. Or the rumor we heard was a lie. And then, you know. Yeah. I want to give the Wachowskis a benefit of the doubt. I'm just going to go with what Gary said, that Morpheus doesn't know. And that's what he, that's what he thinks. And the humans. And I'm going to be happy with that. Yeah. Cool. Cool. And anything, anything to say, Gary? I think that's everything I had for this minute. And that concludes minute 42. The meaning of life, the universe, and everything. Appropriate. Appropriate. Yes. So we'll see you next week. What is that? Wednesday? Yep. Yeah, that's Wednesday. Hopefully Gary will still be with us,

1:01:09but we won't tell you. We'll find out. Do we kill and eat Gary? Well, we don't know. Oh, also, no, no, Gary, tell everybody, tell everybody about your, your, your, your Harry Potter minute, which isn't out yet. The next one, but yeah, do all that stuff. You can find both of the shows that I do at dueling genre.com. Harry Potter minute and Ferris Bueller minute are both hosted over there. And we have Facebook groups, Twitter feeds, all that stuff. Um, I don't know if you search our podcast name, you'll find us everywhere. Yeah, pretty much. So that's, um, that's Ferris Bueller's minute off and, uh, the Harry Potter minute. Yeah. Also, I love that Harry Potter minute logo,

1:01:51by the way. I really love it. You know, I'm, I'm really bummed. Um, I don't want to bring it down here at the end of the episode, but, uh, one of Victoria's friends who did the logo for us, it was like the last thing he did before he passed. So I think that's going to be like our stagnant logo just for the rest of the show. Yeah. Don't ever change it. Don't change that. It's really good. Yeah. I really like it. Originally the, the Harry Potter minute, it had the, um, it was like a clock in the center and I was like, we should make that a time turner. Cause it's Harry Potter. So I'm really pleased that that happened. Yeah. Absolutely. Perfect. Okay. We got very lucky. That's awesome. Definitely. Definitely. So, um, we bid you farewell and adieu and goodbye.

1:02:33We will see you in the next episode.